Orthodox Church and Culture

[Forest]

This post....... http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=30509518&postcount=13 .......gave me an idea for this thread...

I heard an Orthodox priest talking about how far the Orthodox Church can go in adapting to different cultures and still be Orthodox. One simple example is having a service in English in the US, rather than Greek. Another idea would be to adapt the music to the US culture, while still remaining Orthodox. How much adapting can the Orthodox Church do and still be Orthodox?

[Khaleas]

Change??? IS OUTRAGE!! :P

I think the changes will come gradually in response to what the particular parish will need.

[gzt]

plenty and none.

[Mary of Bethany]

Any culture, any time, any place, can and should be sanctified. That's what Christ did. But I think the Church is wise in moving slowly - *very* slowly ;) in changing things. It takes a lot of discernment to know what is good and what is not. We have modern-day Orthodox composers writing hymns for Orthodox choirs - in English. Someday these hymns will be considered as "traditional" as those from 16th century Russia or 5th century Byzantium.

Truth will always be recognized by those seeking it, no matter the culture they come from. That is why Orthodoxy draws people from all cultures.

Mary

[Knowledge3]

My parish is Western Orthodox yet it still retains the Liturgy and Tradition of the East.

[Greg the byzantine]

My parish is Western Orthodox yet it still retains the Liturgy and Tradition of the East.

:scratch:

[buzuxi02]

Very good question. Very difficult to answer.

For example:
The GOA have been using organs for 80 years, The traditionalists dont want them. The majority, they dont even realize that the the greeks of the diaspora are the only ones that use them.

One concern i have is that american christian mentality is to bounce from one church to another. There is no true christianity etc.
IF Orthodoxy gets too big and too americanized will it lose its "sex apppeal". i believe many come to Orthodoxy for the wrong reasons. They view it as exotic or bahamian or something.

[kamikat]

To see how much Orthodox can change and still remain Orthodox, take a listen to the recordings of the Kenyan Orthodox Church. Their music is so wonderfully African, but still Orthodox.

http://www.saintromanosrecords.com/product_info.php?products_id=112&osCsid=a942cab91d748510a88ea29385d75dac

[Knowledge3]

:scratch:

It's Western Rite.

;)


Americans actually live in the West, you know?

[Ioan cel Nou]

It's Western Rite.

;)


Americans actually live in the West, you know?
But if it's Western Rite, how can it retain the Liturgy of the East? Western Rite parishes, by definition, do not use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. They are no less Orthodox for doing so but they certainly are less eastern.

James

[Knowledge3]

But if it's Western Rite, how can it retain the Liturgy of the East? Western Rite parishes, by definition, do not use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. They are no less Orthodox for doing so but they certainly are less eastern.

James

Because it is the same Orthodox Faith in western form.

My parish is St. Peter's Antiochian Orthodox Church of Ft. Worth.

[Ioan cel Nou]

Because it is the same Orthodox Faith in western form.

My parish is St. Peter's Antiochian Orthodox Church of Ft. Worth.
I don't think anyone questioned the Orthodoxy of the Western Rite, certainly not me. It's just that it's impossible to be Western Rite and Eastern Rite at the same time and preserving the Eastern Liturgy would make you Eastern Rite. That's why you got the puzzled responses you did to your last couple of posts.

James

[Knowledge3]

I don't think anyone questioned the Orthodoxy of the Western Rite, certainly not me. It's just that it's impossible to be Western Rite and Eastern Rite at the same time and preserving the Eastern Liturgy would make you Eastern Rite. That's why you got the puzzled responses you did to your last couple of posts.

James

It is Orthodox but with Western culture because we who are Americans actually live in the West.

The Western Rite is a cultural conversion of Eastern Rite into Western Rite Orthodoxy.

Which shows peculiar nature of the Orthodox Church and Her adaptability of the diverse culture(s) in the world as whole.

[Greg the byzantine]

It's Western Rite.

;)


Americans actually live in the West, you know?

Then it does not maintain the Liturgy and tradition of the East but upholds one of the Western Liturgies slightly modified. Hence the scracth head smile to this statement.

My parish is Western Orthodox yet it still retains the Liturgy and Tradition of the East.

[Nickolai]

Knowledge3, your parish uses the Liturgy of St. Tikhon, which is NOT an eastern rite Liturgy, it's a western rite one adapted from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

[Knowledge3]

Knowledge3, your parish uses the Liturgy of St. Tikhon, which is NOT an eastern rite Liturgy, it's a western rite one adapted from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

Thank you for the clarification.

Are you in seminary?

[Knowledge3]

Then it does not maintain the Liturgy and tradition of the East but upholds one of the Western Liturgies slightly modified. Hence the scracth head smile to this statement.

The point I was trying to convey is that the Orthodox Church is true and universal.

It is Western Rite but it still retains -some- basic elements of Eastern Orthodoxy.

[Mary of Bethany]

knowledge3, you're absolutely right - it is Orthodox. It's western, but it's Orthodox.

:)

Mary

[Philothei]

I also think that celebrating liturgy using the western rite does not necessarily classify the whole religious expression as "western" versus "eastern" since all the other theological expression remains "eastern" and orthodox. The 80 year old "tradition" in GOA of choirs has not redefined orthodoxy or distorted it. But still we have to wonder if Orthodoxy would be "too watered down" from what we experience today and how much are we willing to give into or change? And I am not talking about theology just outworldy ceremonial/liturgical expression.
Like Kamikat mentioned we have Orthodoxy in way too many cultures like in Africa that Orthodoxy has adopted to the local culture. Just some thoughts...

And by the way Nickolai I have to tell my doctor who is a dissenchanted Episcopelian and wanted to join Orthodoxy but was intimidated with the language issue,. that there is a church that uses the liturgy based on the book of common prayer that he loves so much. Thanks glad that I read your post.:)