Falling Asleep In Church Can Be Deadly!

[walkin2e]

Acts 20 verse 9 "And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead".

It is a proven fact...people often fall asleep while the preacher is preaching his sermon. I have been preaching, and have seen people nodding their heads, but they were not agreeing with what I said..they were falling asleep! I believe the enemy puts this sleepiness on them so they can not hear what the Lord is saying through the preacher. Now, it is true that some preachers may be dull, and speak in a monotone voice that causes heads to nod. But to fall asleep while the great Apostle Paul was preaching!?

This young man started well by hearing Paul's message, but ended up falling to his death. I just imagine what a commotion that tragic event caused...I am certain that any others who were asleep woke up...just in time to see a miracle performed. Ole Paul stopped preaching, went down to where the young man lay, fell on him, embraced him...and the young man came back to life! What a great testimony to all the others who were there! I just bet they didn't go to sleep again while Paul was preaching.

So preachers, buck up...they even went to sleep on the great Apostle Paul, but the Lord still confirmed His message.

Irvin L. Rozier, aka walkin2e

[calidog]

I believe the enemy puts this sleepiness on them so they can not hear what the Lord is saying through the preacher.

I think the enemy does this the night before.:P(keeps them up late)

[pgp_protector]

But don't forget what then happens in Acts.
Acts 20:10-12

[Starcrystal]

I think it can be a specific attack, even if you do get a good nights sleep. I've never actually fallen asleep but have had my eyes so filled with sand that the preaching sounded like a distant drone. Then you walk out of church and suddenly you're wide awake and ready to go fishing or something? What is that? I don't think it's just physical tiredness.

[Scorcher505]

I have gotten sleepy my fair share of times in church, and I think it is more a result of a lack of energy in the service. Not a lot of holy spirit movement, and it is really early in the morning. The service I use to run was in the evening for that reason, and we rocked the place out, as well as play softer songs. At every service the Holy Spirit was so thick you could cut it with a knife, no one fell asleep at our service, no matter how sick or tired you were. I think that if the sleepiness is an attack no demon would be brave enough to try taking us on.

[The Princess Bride]

I've always wondered about why when I get into service and the preachers begins, why I feel so drained.....

Very thought provocting subject to bring up...

[Madewhole]

:clap: I think it can be a specific attack, even if you do get a good nights sleep. I've never actually fallen asleep but have had my eyes so filled with sand that the preaching sounded like a distant drone. Then you walk out of church and suddenly you're wide awake and ready to go fishing or something? What is that? I don't think it's just physical tiredness.
:thumbsup: :hug: :amen:

[oliveplants]

I just think it's funny that after they raised the poor sleepy guy from the dead, Paul went right back to preaching. AND preached all night! ^_^

WHen I was a child I actually thought my sleepiness was a sign of a good preacher. Bad preachers never put me to sleep. :scratch: lol

[ivory]

Acts 20 verse 9 "And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead".

It is a proven fact...people often fall asleep while the preacher is preaching his sermon. I have been preaching, and have seen people nodding their heads, but they were not agreeing with what I said..they were falling asleep! I believe the enemy puts this sleepiness on them so they can not hear what the Lord is saying through the preacher. Now, it is true that some preachers may be dull, and speak in a monotone voice that causes heads to nod. But to fall asleep while the great Apostle Paul was preaching!?

This young man started well by hearing Paul's message, but ended up falling to his death. I just imagine what a commotion that tragic event caused...I am certain that any others who were asleep woke up...just in time to see a miracle performed. Ole Paul stopped preaching, went down to where the young man lay, fell on him, embraced him...and the young man came back to life! What a great testimony to all the others who were there! I just bet they didn't go to sleep again while Paul was preaching.

So preachers, buck up...they even went to sleep on the great Apostle Paul, but the Lord still confirmed His message.

Irvin L. Rozier, aka walkin2e
(lol) I think we all have done this at one time or another

[whatfor]

I have never fallen asleep, but often find myself drifting off on a different thought, then I can't remember what was preached that day.
Nothing to do with a boring service, our pastors always make it interesting, I just get off track.

[Athene]

For the most part I don't have a problem but one of the elders has the most boring monotonous voice, he goes on and on and his voice doesn't change tone at all - I find it so hard to concentrate and if I've had a bad nights sleep (which is most nights considering i have a baby) I do find myself nodding off.

[Amisk]

I suppose there are veriest reasons why people fall a sleep in church.

1. Lack of rest the previous nite is likely a good one. You can't run around half the nite and be awake on Sunday.

2. There are some preachers who are so boring and stale that they are like dry out cookies and even a good English cup of tea can't keep their listeners awake.

(a)This may be because they have failed to study out their message during the week.

(b) Some ministers have too heavy a load to bear through the week (and God knows many a minister is run off his feet most weeks, a lot of times because the Board and congregation don't carry his burden for the weak and unsaved in the church and community).

(c.) Then of course some people have health problems. Many people who complained of tiredness and fall asleep when ever they sit down for a minute have a health problem called "Sleep Apnea". There are also other signs besides wanting to sleep all the time. The person is often up 3 and 4 times a nite to go to the bathroom or because they just can't sleep.

I wondered for a number of years why I fell asleep when I sat down to watch T.V., listen to a sermon, a lecture or just a quiet conversation. I couldn't read a book because I fell asleep after a page or two and then I was up two or three hours every nite.

When I mentioned it to my doctor, he suggested that I should be tested for Sleep Apnea. I really thought he had a screw loose. Anyway he booked me into a clinic and I spent a nite there. They put me on a C-PAP machine for the nite to monitor my breathing. I forget what my readings where but I was advised to obtain my own C-PAP machine.

I thought they were all a little on the nutty side, however the Newf. (my wife) joined them and I ended up with a C-PAP machine at home. Slowly I started sleeping through the nites again. I began staying awake in most of the services. Oh, it didn't make me a brain or the boss' pet but it did change how I felt in the daytime, and it lifted a bit of the depression.

When I go on trips etc. I am not usually gone for long so I often don't use the machine and I can slowly feel the old tiredness creeping back over my body.

By the way the C-PAP machine is good for those whose wife or husband complain about sleeping with a snoring partner. Both snoring and Sleep Apnea are caused by the tongue falling into the back of the mouth and choking off the air passage when you lay on your back. The body reacts by waking you a dozen times a nite to keep you from suffocating. In fact if people's problems are bad enough they can die through suffocation.

My case is not that bad. My brother has just been diagnosed with the same problem and his doctor told him the shape of the neck or throat and being over weigh can increase the problems.

I believe the doctor is correct because I lost 33 lbs and my C-PAP machine has been recalled to replace some defective parts and I haven't missed it as much as I usually do. Having said that, I'll be glad to get it back in active service because I think it still makes a difference.

If you are having a problem staying awake in church, it may not be your minister, it could be that you have a medical problem. Talk to your doctor.

[RichardE]

I fell asleep in church because I was tired, not because evil or satan was doing it. I always get tired when I'm bored.

Plus I have never fully agreed with what my church well ex church said, so yea I dont think falling asleep in church is deadly.

Falling asleep on a higher ground with no safety barrier while leaning forward, now thats dangerous.

[New_Wineskin]

I fell asleep in church because I was tired, not because evil or satan was doing it. I always get tired when I'm bored.

Plus I have never fully agreed with what my church well ex church said, so yea I dont think falling asleep in church is deadly.

Falling asleep on a higher ground with no safety barrier while leaning forward, now thats dangerous.

Bored is right . Bored of hearing someone paid to deliver a teaching but only rehashes the same things over and over again only in a different way . With the millions of sermons and teachings being put forth as something "new" , I certainly don't see any new ideas being presented .

Think about it ... let's say that there are 1,000,000 "teachings" a year ( I know that there are more than that ) . Even with *one* new idea presented in all of the world in that year , that would be only .0001 percent of needed to present that one new idea . This should be very easy with all of the increasingly extra resources available for developing these teachings . But , what 20 new ideas or doctrines have been put forward in the last 20 years . I am not asking for much , here . All of that money spent on these 100's of thousands of freeloaders should at least result in one new doctrine a year .

But , what do we have ? Even with the very , very few ideas presented in the last 100 years , most new ideas are considered to be false by the majority . They are slow to be accepted and , even when accepted by many , are not accepted by most .

What do we have ? the same old thing every time . Yeah , I am not surprised that people are bored .

[Nadiine]

Bored is right . Bored of hearing someone paid to deliver a teaching but only rehashes the same things over and over again only in a different way . With the millions of sermons and teachings being put forth as something "new" , I certainly don't see any new ideas being presented .

Think about it ... let's say that there are 1,000,000 "teachings" a year ( I know that there are more than that ) . Even with *one* new idea presented in all of the world in that year , that would be only .0001 percent of needed to present that one new idea . This should be very easy with all of the increasingly extra resources available for developing these teachings . But , what 20 new ideas or doctrines have been put forward in the last 20 years . I am not asking for much , here . All of that money spent on these 100's of thousands of freeloaders should at least result in one new doctrine a year .

But , what do we have ? Even with the very , very few ideas presented in the last 100 years , most new ideas are considered to be false by the majority . They are slow to be accepted and , even when accepted by many , are not accepted by most .

What do we have ? the same old thing every time . Yeah , I am not surprised that people are bored .

! :eek: ! What a scathing rebuke against Pastors & those who go to churches to be taught God's word.

By the way, I don't fall asleep in church - does that invalidate someone elses boredom?

(my color emphasis in quote)
I'd like to ask, WHAT IS NEW IN THE BIBLE SINCE THE NT WAS WRITTEN? It's 2000 years old, what's NEW since God's FULL revelation was revealed to us?

Do we start making up NEW STUFF just so it isn't the same "old boring" garbage you're sick of hearing? :o

The apostles taught Believers TO KEEP TO THE DOCTRINES & TRADITION THEY WERE FIRST TAUGHT, (2000 yrs ago) -- not the NEW ones that would come along.

Rom 16:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom016.html#17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

2Th 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Th/2Th003.html#6) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Tts 1:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Tts/Tts001.html#9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Rom 6:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom006.html#17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

1Ti 4:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ti/1Ti004.html#6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


Eph 4:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eph/Eph004.html#14) That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

These doctrines & traditions taught by the apostles ARE WHAT ARE TO BE CONTINUED IN & what were given.
They do NOT teach us to start NEW teachings & new traditions to follow for the sake of 'variety'.

[Athene]

I can understand where New-Wineskin is coming from, in my 14 years as a christian it's getting to the point where I'm hearing the same old sermons rehashed time and time again, I'd like to hear different teachings from different parts of the Bible other then John, 1 Corinth, Ephesians and Romans.

Nadiine, surely you don't believe that the church that exists now is anything like the church that existed when Paul was alive?

[thunderlove]

! :eek: ! What a scathing rebuke against Pastors & those who go to churches to be taught God's word.

By the way, I don't fall asleep in church - does that invalidate someone elses boredom?

(my color emphasis in quote)
I'd like to ask, WHAT IS NEW IN THE BIBLE SINCE THE NT WAS WRITTEN? It's 2000 years old, what's NEW since God's FULL revelation was revealed to us?

Do we start making up NEW STUFF just so it isn't the same "old boring" garbage you're sick of hearing? :o

The apostles taught Believers TO KEEP TO THE DOCTRINES & TRADITION THEY WERE FIRST TAUGHT, (2000 yrs ago) -- not the NEW ones that would come along.

Rom 16:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom016.html#17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

2Th 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Th/2Th003.html#6) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Tts 1:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Tts/Tts001.html#9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Rom 6:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom006.html#17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

1Ti 4:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ti/1Ti004.html#6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


Eph 4:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eph/Eph004.html#14) That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

These doctrines & traditions taught by the apostles ARE WHAT ARE TO BE CONTINUED IN & what were given.
They do NOT teach us to start NEW teachings & new traditions to follow for the sake of 'variety'.

What she said!

"What news! how much more important to know what that is which was never old!"

While I certainly agree that the whole Bible should be taught (Calvary Chapels teach through the word, book by book, chapter by chapter; I like them), I cannot agree with the notion that I certainly don't see any new ideas being presented is somehow a bad thing. People need, now more than ever the simple straight message of the gospel. And it repeated again and again and again, until everyone gets it right!

We are forgiven in Christ
Love your enemies
Hope for heaven
Pray, pray, pray
Read your Bible
Trust God in the storms
Trust God when the sun shines
Help each other out
Give your entire heart to God
Don't sin
Tell others about Jesus

Which of these is being taught too much????

[Nadiine]

I can understand where New-Wineskin is coming from, in my 14 years as a christian it's getting to the point where I'm hearing the same old sermons rehashed time and time again, I'd like to hear different teachings from different parts of the Bible other then John, 1 Corinth, Ephesians and Romans.

Nadiine, surely you don't believe that the church that exists now is anything like the church that existed when Paul was alive?

We actually have MORE drama today than they had in their day.

And from my understanding of history, their 'services' were like hours LONG, not just one hour like we so graciously have.
Act 20:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act020.html#9) And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

First off, New_wineskin in a previous post I read refuses to even attend any church.. if I'm wrong she can certainly correct my understanding.
I actually GO to church, so I don't agree w/ her on her harsh attack. (& as if ALL churches are guilty of it?)

But notice, how many churches today are refusing to teach from the OT. (it's not politically correct anymore) -
It's too "harsh" or "doesn't apply today". SO, here's your result. (reaping what you sow)
All sermons from the same books of the NT repeated over & over.
What's NEW that we can add to them after 2000 years of having the FULL revelation? We've had concerts, choirs, visual effects... it's still the same information becuz the information doesn't change.
Are we now seeking ENTERTAINMENT?
What exactly is being required to keep people 'awake'?

Could it be instead that we're more apathetic? Could it be that we've lost our first love?
The Honeymoon's over? Is it a PASTOR'S JOB TO KEEP OUR FLAME LIT for the Lord in intimate relationship?
Have WE lost interest?
I don't know.
My point is, MAYBE IT'S NOT THE PASTOR OR HIS TEACHING, BUT OUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP that is the source of the boredom?

We're essentially saying, hearing this bores me becuz it's tired & we need some FRESH NEW ways for it to be relayed to us. (didn't the Israelites complain about having MANNA every single day while God provided for their needs?) :confused:
-just tossing up options here in the discussion. :)

I really don't struggle with this problem personally - every once in awhile I don't go to church, but it's not becuz i'm disgruntled by any means.

[RichardE]

! :eek: ! What a scathing rebuke against Pastors & those who go to churches to be taught God's word.

By the way, I don't fall asleep in church - does that invalidate someone elses boredom?

(my color emphasis in quote)
I'd like to ask, WHAT IS NEW IN THE BIBLE SINCE THE NT WAS WRITTEN? It's 2000 years old, what's NEW since God's FULL revelation was revealed to us?

Do we start making up NEW STUFF just so it isn't the same "old boring" garbage you're sick of hearing? :o

The apostles taught Believers TO KEEP TO THE DOCTRINES & TRADITION THEY WERE FIRST TAUGHT, (2000 yrs ago) -- not the NEW ones that would come along.

Rom 16:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom016.html#17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

2Th 3:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Th/2Th003.html#6) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Tts 1:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Tts/Tts001.html#9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Rom 6:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom006.html#17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

1Ti 4:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ti/1Ti004.html#6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


Eph 4:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eph/Eph004.html#14) That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

These doctrines & traditions taught by the apostles ARE WHAT ARE TO BE CONTINUED IN & what were given.
They do NOT teach us to start NEW teachings & new traditions to follow for the sake of 'variety'.

Swing and a miss.

[Nadiine]

Swing and a miss.

What does a post like this help or serve?

[RichardE]

Because I really feel you missed completely what he was trying to say, bible reading as all well and good but a lot of people want answers to thier modern issues, and the bible is far from clear unless you want someones personal view and if the answer is clearly there, its hard to see.

The point is yes keep bible readings but not completely, is so drab and boring to listen to some preiest be repetative or just go through the bible in order, over and over again....

chuurches need involvement, group discussion during church, people speacking out and asking questions, people giving advise, not just one guy up at the top reading from the bible, i could do that at home.

[Nadiine]

Because I really feel you missed completely what he was trying to say, bible reading as all well and good but a lot of people want answers to thier modern issues, and the bible is far from clear unless you want someones personal view and if the answer is clearly there, its hard to see.

The point is yes keep bible readings but not completely, is so drab and boring to listen to some preiest be repetative or just go through the bible in order, over and over again....

chuurches need involvement, group discussion during church, people speacking out and asking questions, people giving advise, not just one guy up at the top reading from the bible, i could do that at home.

Thank you for some constructive input.

Her post was to all the churches everywhere - in a broad sweep.

About the 'people being involved' in service, I don't want that in my church. I go to listen to someone ABOVE ME in spiritual knowledge/education to learn. If I want group discussion, I'd go to Wed. or Sun. nite services where they do that.

Our pastor did this one Sunday morning, and the people that kept standing up & asking lame questions or making nonsensical points was actually more distracting than helpful.
I want to learn, not have people lead his teaching & have to answer questions I already know or have no interest in.

But my church is far from boring... and I know many Christians who are just fine, fed & happy in their churches. (church is US too - what we make it, not solely a pastor).

If anything, such a scathing attack shouldn't have been delivered to everyone like that as if it's ALL of Christianity.
That's alot of my problem w/ it. (her personal experiences may not be everyone elses - & she's openly announced she doesn't go to church to my recollection).

And sure, I agree, it can be made interesting - I just don't place so much weight on the pastor; one hour out of 7 days certainly isn't going to KILL US to sit there, is it?

That's just how i see it - I dislike the church being railed against like that.

[Amisk]

I agree with much of what Nadiine has said. Although I was never in full time ministry I have filled the pulpit enough to know that it is not easy to come up with two sermons a week plus a Bible Study message. Add to that is visitation and causal conversation with who ever drops by the church office or the manse. Some are looking for spiritual help, some just a friendly word. There is also the grieving families and funeral services to be supplied when needed. Services which can not be set aside until a more convenient time. Over and above this you have folks dropping in with marriage problems and troubles with their kids. Every minister needs to fit in prayer time for himself and his congregation. A minister needs to be a genius to handle it all, but he is not. He is really just a man attempting to do the work of our Lord.

He also has to think about his own family. He needs time for his wife and kids. (I might add that the little lady in the manse has got to be a saint. She will spend long hours alone. She will see her husband counseling women of the church for what seems untold hours. (If he is wise he will need her or a board member to sit in on counseling sessions where it is likely to be just a lady and himself.) It is unwise for a man to council a woman in any building or car alone.) A minister’s wife can not afford to have a jealous bone in her body and she must known how to keep her mouth shut on things she hears.

In many cases she has to be both mother and father to her family. Many a minister's work has been cut short by a wife who was all gong-ho to marry when she looked with dreamy eyed at her minister husband to be and a manse in an ideal community. However, when she had to live with demands of a troubled church and the long hours of her husband’s position, she suddenly declared God didn't call me to the ministry and at that point her husband's ministry was over.)

A minister's position in the community is different than most of his parishers, it demands a commitment to his work on a 24-7-365 times table. I remember when I was in Bible College, an old minister who was the collage pastor at the time told me, "a minister can be as busy as he wants to be, because the work is always in front of him. There are sermons to be prepared, visitation, attending services in the church, mingling with the kids and checking to seeing that church and biblical standards are being taught to the young ones etc., hospital visitation, and being active in community affairs, such as school board meetings, and Parent\teacher associations, you name it. You could work 24 hours a day if the old body could take it. Since it can't you have to seek to do the most important things each week and hopeful the stronger members of the congregation will take up the slack."

There are weeks the sermons suffer because something else had to take priority over the study time. Something that was not expected demanded the time the sermon should have had. Just as the wife has to fill in many of the husband's responsibilities in the home, so a good board and church members need to do the same in church affairs. The sad fact is too many church boards and congregations seem to feel that it is their position to fight the pastor's every move, while failing do church work or witnessing for themselves. Statistics tell us that the work in any church is done by 5% of the congregation.

Having said all that, Whether a pastor reads his sermon in mono tones, whether he raises his voice or whether he talks like a businessman in the pulpit is not important. What is important is that he preach the full Word of God from Genesis to Revelations. That he doesn't water the gospel down. That his messages hits both the saint and the sinner, the Board member and the kids in the pew. That he lives what he preaches. Keep in mind he is not a politician who is looking for votes in the next election. He is a minister preaching to get souls into a right relationship with God. He doesn’t preach to win friends but he does preach to influence people. That he demand the highest standards of those in his church who name the name of Christ. That he see success as souls saved and not necessarily names for the church roll.

Many churches would never be satisfied if St. Paul or for that matter Jesus Christ where to stand in their pulpits Sunday after Sunday. Today’s church want young preachers with 30 years experience. They want preachers who lead in the same chorus for half an hour and call it worship. They want preachers who make them feel at ease in the pew, while preaching biblical messages that tell them nothing is wrong with their life style. They want preachers whose sermons tickle their ears on Sunday, sermons which they can forget by Monday. Some minister are yielding to the unscriptural demands of a worldly congregation. Churches want pain free revival. It will never be. God doesn’t deal in pain free revivals, if he had Christ would never have been crucified.

[RichardE]

I swear I replied to that, several of my replies today have disspeared.

[twistedsketch]

This is how "Bible banging" got its start. The preacher would slam his Bible into the pulpit when he was about to say something important so the people dozing off would at least get the important part.

[Nadiine]

I agree with much of what Nadiine has said. Although I was never in full time ministry I have filled the pulpit enough to know that it is not easy to come up with two sermons a week plus a Bible Study message. Add to that is visitation and causal conversation with those who ever drops by the church office or the manse. Some are looking for spiritual help, some just a friendly word. There is also the grieving families and funeral services to be supplied when needed. Services which can not be set aside until a more convenient time. Over and above this you have folks dropping in with marriage problems and troubles with their kids. Every minister needs to fit in prayer time for himself and his congregation. A minister needs to be a genius to handle it all, but he is not. He is really just a man attempting to do the work of our Lord.

He also has to think about his own family. He needs time for his wife and kids. (I might add that the little lady in the manse has got to be a saint. She will spend long hours alone. She will see her husband counseling women of the church for what seems untold hours. (If he is wise he will need her or a board member to sit in on counseling sessions where it is likely to be just a lady and himself.) It is unwise for a man to council a woman in any building or car alone.) A minister’s wife can not afford to have a jealous bone in her body and she must known how to keep her mouth shut on things she hears.

In many cases she has to be both mother and father to her family. Many a minister's work has been cut short by a wife who was all gong-ho to marry when she looked with dreamy eyed at her minister husband to be and a manse in an ideal community. However, when she had to live with demands of a troubled church and the long hours of her husband’s position, she suddenly declared God didn't call me to the ministry and at that point her husband's ministry was over.)

A minister's position in the community is different than most of his parishers, it demands a commitment to his work on a 24-7-365 times table. I remember when I was in Bible College, an old minister who was the collage pastor at the time told me, "a minister can be as busy as he wants to be, because the work is always in front of him. There are sermons to be prepared, visitation, attending services in the church, mingling with the kids and checking to seeing that church and biblical standards are being taught to the young ones etc., hospital visitation, and being active in community affairs, such as school board meetings, and Parent\teacher associations, you name it. You could work 24 hours a day if the old body could take it. Since it can't you have to seek to do the most important things each week and hopeful the stronger members of the congregation will take up the slack."

There are weeks the sermons suffer because something else had to take priority over the study time. Something that was not expected demanded the time the sermon should have had. Just as the wife has to fill in many of the husband's responsibilities in the home, so a good board and church members need to do the same in church affairs. The sad fact is too many church boards and congregations seem to feel that it is their position to fight the pastor's every move, while failing do church work or witnessing for themselves. Statistics tell us that the work in any church is done by 5% of the congregation.

Having said all that, Whether a pastor reads his sermon in mono tones, whether he raises his voice or whether he talks like a businessman in the pulpit is not important. What is important is that he preach the full Word of God from Genesis to Revelations. That he doesn't water the gospel down. That his messages hits both the saint and the sinner, the Board member and the kids in the pew. That he lives what he preaches. Keep in mind he is not a politician who is looking for votes in the next election. He is a minister preaching to get souls into a right relationship with God. He doesn’t preach to win friends but he does preach to influence people. That he demand the highest standards of those in his church who name the name of Christ. That he see success as souls saved and not necessarily names for the church roll.

Many churches would never be satisfied if St. Paul or for that matter Jesus Christ where to stand in their pulpits Sunday after Sunday. Today’s church want young preachers with 30 years experience. They want preachers who lead in the same chorus for half an hour and call it worship Sunday after Sunday. They want preachers who make them feel at ease in the pew, while preaching biblical messages that tell them nothing is wrong with their life style. They want preachers whose sermons tickle their ears on Sunday, sermons which they can forget it on Monday. Some minister are yielding to the unscriptural demands of a worldly congregation. Churches want pain free revival. It will never be. God doesn’t deal in pain free revivals, if he had Christ would never have been crucified.

:groupray: My parents both worked on staff at the church I grew up in, so they knew the pastor/leadership.
So I've always known the grueling work it is to be a Pastor/leader in a thriving church.

It's got to be a special calling. This is one reason I'm SO slow to judge or criticize.
People really don't know how much is involved; not just physical time & energy, but emotional/spiritual draining.

We need to be in prayer for our leaders.

Thanks for this insightful post. :hug:

[Amisk]

:groupray: My parents both worked on staff at the church I grew up in, so they knew the pastor/leadership.
So I've always known the grueling work it is to be a Pastor/leader in a thriving church.

It's got to be a special calling. This is one reason I'm SO slow to judge or criticize.
People really don't know how much is involved; not just physical time & energy, but emotional/spiritual draining.

We need to be in prayer for our leaders.

Thanks for this insightful post. :hug:


A MEN!!:prayer:

[RichardE]

I'm not going to be supportive to leaders just reading from a book, If I see some input or something more time worthy, then I wil lgive praise.

Just because someone puts a lot of effort into something, does not mean I have to be grateful if it does not bennifit me, which reading from the bible doesnt, i know my storys and the rest, I want pastor input and discussion.

And frankly i have never seen them as above me, espeshally in england, relgios education is a joke, everyone in my class did well in RE, because its so easy to get into, I will not judge person to person but I will judge on a base level, and frankly, its the reason, one of them, I dont go church and will not bother stepping inside somewhere where I dont feel there is a teacher there, just a reader.

I am yet to be proven otherwise and I have travelled to many churches of many different branches.

[Nadiine]

I'm not going to be supportive to leaders just reading from a book, If I see some input or something more time worthy, then I wil lgive praise.

Just because someone puts a lot of effort into something, does not mean I have to be grateful if it does not bennifit me, which reading from the bible doesnt, i know my storys and the rest, I want pastor input and discussion.

And frankly i have never seen them as above me, espeshally in england, relgios education is a joke, everyone in my class did well in RE, because its so easy to get into, I will not judge person to person but I will judge on a base level, and frankly, its the reason, one of them, I dont go church and will not bother stepping inside somewhere where I dont feel there is a teacher there, just a reader.

I am yet to be proven otherwise and I have travelled to many churches of many different branches.

I don't know what churches are like out there - but I have heard from online people I know from there that it's turning practically Atheistic.?
You sound pretty bitter - so I figure something really offended or upset you.

I can't speak about what happened, but I CAN share with you that bitterness will eat you alive if you let it.
I pray that you let God heal whatever the root of this is so you can move forward in freeness of the Spirit.
Life is WAY too short.
:groupray: :wave:
God bless u richly!

(ps. the comment I made 'above me', I only meant in a sense of having much more biblical knowledge/education than me.) =)

[Amisk]

I'm not going to be supportive to leaders just reading from a book, If I see some input or something more time worthy, then I Will give praise.

Just because someone puts a lot of effort into something, does not mean I have to be grateful if it does not benefit me, which reading from the bible doesn't, i know my stories and the rest, I want pastor input and discussion.

And frankly i have never seen them as above me, especially in england, religious education is a joke, everyone in my class did well in RE, because its so easy to get into, I will not judge person to person but I will judge on a base level, and frankly, its the reason, one of them, I don't go church and will not bother stepping inside somewhere where I don't feel there is a teacher there, just a reader.

I am yet to be proven otherwise and I have travelled to many churches of many different branches.

Well Richard, you have made your choice and you have that right to do so, but you are walking contrary to the scriptures when you do not gather with fellow Christians. Paul tells us: "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:24-25

You mention, "Just because someone puts a lot of effort into something, does not mean I have to be grateful if it does not benefit me, which reading from the bible doesn't, i know my stories and the rest, I want pastor input and discussion."

Again that is your choice, however it is a bit selfish in nature because we do not just attend church for our own benefit, we are there to encourage others in the congregation. We are there to teach by word and example and encourage fellow members of the congregation to continue in the faith. We are there to support the work of Christ and the church.

When you fail to take part in church you are telling your non-church neighbours that there is nothing go on at your church. You are telling them that the gospel as a hold is of no value.

You need to be in and support a Bible teaching church. You need to back a pastor who preaches the word of God. A pastor who does his or her best to preach sermons that seek to win souls for Christ and to build up the Christians with in the assembly. You can not do so by staying in bed on Sunday morning. You can not do so by skipping off to a ball game or cricket match on Prayer Meeting nite.

Even if one thinks he knows his Bible better than the pastor or is looking for a pastor to entertain him he can always learn something new. Even new Christians in the faith have something to add to senior Christians spiritual life.

[New_Wineskin]

I'm not going to be supportive to leaders just reading from a book, If I see some input or something more time worthy, then I wil lgive praise.

Just because someone puts a lot of effort into something, does not mean I have to be grateful if it does not bennifit me, which reading from the bible doesnt, i know my storys and the rest, I want pastor input and discussion.

And frankly i have never seen them as above me, espeshally in england, relgios education is a joke, everyone in my class did well in RE, because its so easy to get into, I will not judge person to person but I will judge on a base level, and frankly, its the reason, one of them, I dont go church and will not bother stepping inside somewhere where I dont feel there is a teacher there, just a reader.

I am yet to be proven otherwise and I have travelled to many churches of many different branches.

Since they don't come up with anything new , I don't see any effort at all . They *claim* to be studying the Scriptures . Ok - so prove it . If there is nothing new , then what do they have that I can't have by reading them on my own ? I have my own copy of the Scriptures and I get a lot more out of them than teachings of the paid heirarchy . If they study and study and come up with the same things , it only shows that there is no need for study - only to read *for themselves* as rememberance .

Of course , a lot of them look into the Scriptures with a microscope to dig out every Law they can so that they can talk down to those who pay them . Well , those that listen to people like that like that sort of thing as it tickles their ears . Some of us are bored by the repetitiveness .

Speaking of repetitiveness ... it is amazing how many times and how many ways they teach on "tithing" .
Talk about beating a dead horse ...
.......:sleep:.....
:sleep: :preach: :sleep:
.......:sleep:.....

[New_Wineskin]

I can understand where New-Wineskin is coming from, in my 14 years as a christian it's getting to the point where I'm hearing the same old sermons rehashed time and time again, I'd like to hear different teachings from different parts of the Bible other then John, 1 Corinth, Ephesians and Romans.


Thank you . :)

[Nadiine]

I'd like to ask New_Wineskin HOW MANY CHURCHES SHE ATTENDS to make this broad sweep of attacks against ALL of God's Pastors as if they're ALL boring and not worth listening to.

Until you have literally visted EVERY SINGLE CHURCH OF GOD that exists on God's green earth, you cannot paint such a general attack over them all.

I have gone to many different churches (moved many times) and I don't run into this 'boring' problem whatsoever.
Nor do my other Christian friends & relatives.

I like Amisks point in his post, WE AREN'T IN CHURCH FOR PERSONAL GAIN, (sitting in wait for what WE will be given), we GO TO WORSHIP THE LORD in love & fellowship of the brethren - exhorting, encouraging one another in unity & love.
Love of the Brethren is a sign of a genuine believer by the way.

I'm personally offended by these continual harsh attacks done in such broad generalities as if ALL God's churches on the face of the earth are failed and useless.

I stand in full support of God's work [thru so many of His appointed Pastors/leaders] in HIS church.

[walkin2e]

Yesterday, Jan 7, 2007, I preached at the nursing home where I've been preaching for 18 years. Course this is not a paid job nor am I a salaried pastor. The service lasted from 9:30 until 11:10 AM, and there were about 20 in attendance. One lady, 104 years old, was right in front of me. She amened, and praised the Lord during the preaching, and sang with a strong voice as we sang some of the old songs. One other elderly lady sat there with tears streaming down her cheeks, as I preached about heaven, and all the the things the LORD has prepared for those who love him.

The primary scripture the LORD led me to use was Acts 26, the whole chapter. Paul described his encounter with Jesus, and told about how great changes occurred in his life after this eye opening event. King Agrippa even told Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian". Festus called Paul mad. I went on to explain that Festus thought that because "the natural man received not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned". (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14).

Though I was long in preaching, no one went to sleep...most everyone there was in wheelchairs and under medication. At the close of the service, Brother Westberry stated "I love the LORD because he changed me..I can feel the Spirit running all up and down me!" The 104 year old lady stated, "I have been going to church all my life, and I am still hungry for the LORD's word"...She then said, "I have fought a good fight, I have kept the faith"....You ought to have heard all of us singing "Going Home". It goes like this: "Going home, I'm going home, there's nothing to hold me here. I've got a glimpse of that heavenly land, Praise God, I'm going home!".

walkin2e

[RichardE]

Naddine, I am not bitter and I apologise if I come of that way, I’m fed up. I’m fed up of sitting in a church with well lets face it, many are hypocrites, there I said it, I have a problem with the Hypocrisy of some of the churches I have stepped in, and lets get one thing straight here, I only ever talk about churches I step in.

I know a lot of people who are good people, are they church goers no, because many of the people in the church are actually just stuck up “I’m better than you” people, and I won’t have it. Plus loads of them are not even Christian, I knew of what 5 families who just attended a Catholic church so they could have some expensive weddings and christenings there, there was no sign of them after the services though. I don’t know how many priests I have had frown at me because I didn’t deposit coins once.

Hey my own cathedral even nearly refused to let me in just because I was dressed in black! Ahahaha! And that’s the only place I will step in, and it’s a protestant cathedral as well, which makes it even more ironic.

Now to the boredom which is the slightly bigger issue, I am very bored of going in and listening to parts of the bible, no wonder most people who are Christian in

England are rarely seen on the church front, and I think fellow British Christians will agree with me that attendance is dieing, hey we are even having churches pulled down in some places for other faith buildings to be erected.

I hate being judgemental like this, its such a bad thing but I am so tired of the church system, this is why I class myself as non demonical, I am a protestant, I protest against the church.

I mean I really tried last year and visited many churches of all different branches, there was only one I felt good in, it was a Mormon one, and although the people were nice, I couldn’t stay for the fact of me not believing in the extra stuff. I really miss that place as it gave me a lot of happiness and joy but I have a real belief of not staying somewhere unless you have a good chain of beliefs.

The last check was 40% Christian in England, much less of that attending church.

I suppose its less than America for two reasons, one is, we don’t have really a Christian country, its multi faith, that’s it, it’s not a Christian society. Most of it is atheist. Then again ANYONE here who has a love for history or general interest, study the dark ages and you may find out why its kind of gone that way ever since, we are a lot different to America in that sense.

The other reason I would say is because employers are pretty harsh when it comes to Sunday, I haven’t found an employer yet who would give Saturday or Sunday off for church, I seriously doubt there are many.

I have a dream and it’s a very honest dream that one day I will find a church I am happy in, where I don’t see blatant hypocrisy going on and of which I am not bored out of my head, a new gospel church has popped up, even though I am not black, I am going to see if I can get involved, the preacher gets very involved with people and discusses today’s issues with great loud enthusiasm, so my prayers may have been answered at last.

I hate not being with a group of Christians praying and celebrating once a week but I suppose this is what happens when you are so strong in your convictions and views.

[New_Wineskin]

I hate not being with a group of Christians praying and celebrating once a week but I suppose this is what happens when you are so strong in your convictions and views.


There are so many good reasons for not being with the institutional groups . Many create a huge , needless , financial overhead based on tradition and then continually harass people for money to pay for it . Most have a set of Laws which they consider are necessary for obtaining salvation whether they actually state it or not ( the "one must 'go to church' " is one ) . Many have a membership-type doctrine that say that one must primarily meet with those in that group which is forsaking the assemblies of believers which is something that they "say" is the reason for being with *them* in the first place .:scratch:

Christianity is a relationship with the Lord - not a relationship with rules and traditions to keep other humans happy .

[RichardE]

I agree but its nice to be with others of the same faith. However I have found I am of a very strong line of faith, and a lot of people wont even except some of my core views, I have to be confatble with people, I am not trying to please others, I am pleasing myself, and I refuse to be in a church of which I disagree with.

Ah its all very stressful thats why I have a good laugh over it.

[New_Wineskin]

I agree but its nice to be with others of the same faith. However I have found I am of a very strong line of faith, and a lot of people wont even except some of my core views, I have to be confatble with people, I am not trying to please others, I am pleasing myself, and I refuse to be in a church of which I disagree with.

Ah its all very stressful thats why I have a good laugh over it.

I only need a few friends that don't demand that I agree with them . I don't need them to agree with me . I doubt that I could even find very many people who agreed with me on all but a few things . Only the Gospel is important , anyway . It is short , simple , and to the point . But , I won't do the "meeting" thing . Just a visit every now and then like regular friends . All of that religious stuff isn't for me . Christianity is about a relationship with Him and others . Rituals don't do it for me .

[Amisk]

I only need a few friends that don't demand that I agree with them . I don't need them to agree with me . I doubt that I could even find very many people who agreed with me on all but a few things . Only the Gospel is important , anyway . It is short , simple , and to the point . But , I won't do the "meeting" thing . Just a visit every now and then like regular friends . All of that religious stuff isn't for me . Christianity is about a relationship with Him and others . Rituals don't do it for me .

Where I am on Sunday morning and evening or when church services are scheduled in my church tells my fellow Christians and my neighbours how important Jesus Christ is in my life. While Church attendance in itself doesn't give me salvation, but it is really a thermometer as to my spiritual health. It is sad to say that to a lot of Christians He is not of much value.

[RichardE]

I only need a few friends that don't demand that I agree with them . I don't need them to agree with me . I doubt that I could even find very many people who agreed with me on all but a few things . Only the Gospel is important , anyway . It is short , simple , and to the point . But , I won't do the "meeting" thing . Just a visit every now and then like regular friends . All of that religious stuff isn't for me . Christianity is about a relationship with Him and others . Rituals don't do it for me .
I have friends of different race, relgion, sexual orientation and way different views, but frankly I do feel if I want to be in church and reguarly attenend, I need to be on the same wavelength.