What is the real cause of sickness?

[Jaison]

What is the real cause of sickness?
In my opinion majority of sickness come from sin.
I think this a subject to study in deep. Christians should study on this, because Bible says so many things on this. (Example; Jesus heals a paralyzed man in Luke 5: 17 to 26.) Exceptions are there (like the incident on Jesus heals a man born blind, read in john 9: 1 to 11.). In the Old Testament there are incidents where God send plagues to people who disobeyed His words. Disobeying Gods word is a sin. In my opinion and from my studies of the bible I came to conclusion that majority of sickness comes because of sin. I am sure that 90%of the readers will disagree with my opinion initially but later they will agree with me. I am not sure whether every disease comes from sin.

Head ache, I discussed with many doctors on this. Doctors don’t find a single reason for this. Doctors say that there are different types of head ache and the causes are different. Head ache is not the real sickness but it is a reaction of our metabolism to some situations abnormally formed inside our body. To say for example if we keep on sleepless nights we will feel head ache, then again we feel head ache when we face some big problems, this is because of excessive load on our brain. But do you know there is a biblical way to cure this?

Take the case of Head ache caused by burden and sleep less nights due to some problems. What is the biblical way to over come this? It is so simple that is to leave the problem to our Jesus Christ and go to sleep. Then the question may come, how do we entrust this to Jesus? Again it is simple Have faith in him and pray to him and entrust your problems to Him. If you disagree on this, my answer to you is quite simple...Why don’t you go and try this in practical and come back with the reply? Why everyone doesn’t understand this? The answer is also very simple but very serious because the ruler of this world is Satan. He doesn’t like somebody go near to Jesus. Read the bible words: Matthew 11: 28 to 30 “Come to me, all of you are tired from carrying your heavy loads, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke and put it on you, and learn from me, because I am gentile and humble in spirit; and you will find rest. The yoke I will give you is easy, and the load I will put on you is light”.
If you have the faith in Jesus everything is easy. (Women healed on touching Jesus cloak because of her faith in Jesus: Matthew 9: 20 to 22) We usually have a feeling that we have to face our problems alone. This is wrong. God will send miraculous solutions on our problems, may be through a messenger like a friend or by changing the mind of another person, or by changing the situations. I here tell an example; think you’re your superior or your Boss is against you. And he misunderstands you on every act. What will you do? As you don’t like to leave the company you will try yourself to correct his feelings about you or try to impress him in a different way. But this will usually end in a negative result, so you will have this head ache and sleepless nights etc. If this continues you will be moved in to some other stage of sickness say hypertension etc which may again lead to a heart attack. Then think about the main cause of this heart attack? It is the lack of faith in Jesus Christ. Consider in the above example, that you prayed to our Jesus Christ about this and entrusted your this problem to Him. Result will be positive, I am sure about this. It is easy for our God to change the mind of your Boss or to change the situation. Holy Spirit is our guide, when we pray to Jesus Holy Spirit will come suddenly and help us in a different way than we think as a solution. How ever hard we try it is not possible to change another mind, there is a barrier in-between this that is the spirit. This may be a good spirit as Holy Spirit or it may be an evil spirit like Devil. Devil will always deceive but the Holy Spirit only do well and guide you in the right path. So who is causing this head ache? Is it the Holy Spirit? No it is the evil one.
To emphasize on the above point Here I state one example of a true testimony of one my known case. One of our church member, and young man of 35 years struggled with cancer last year; He is a Doctor by profession. He is now working in Australia. He got a cancer in his neck with two swellings which turned malignant. Nobody expected him to survive. Doctors found no hope. After 5 months of struggle with this he got cured. This is a miracle. His father, mother, wife and his relatives and the church prayed for him. This man states in his testimony that he got enmity with his own brother who is a born again and as he turned to Pentecostal belief, several years back. His brother was thrown out of his house because this man turned to be a Pentecost. Pastors came to this fellow and prayed for him asked him if he got something against somebody. If so, they advised him, to forgive them for that. That night Holy Spirit remembered him about his brother. And he stared praying to Jesus to forgive him because of his attitude towards his brother. He confessed his sin to Jesus. The next day onwards he started to recover gradually, the swellings came smaller and vanished. When they approached the next time to the hospital for further check up, doctors and other relatives found that he is perfectly alright, his blood counts are normal with no trace of cancer. Now this fellow is a strong believer and happily living with his family in Australia. This man very strongly says that this cancer was cured as soon as he forgave his brother. He says that his cancer was because of his sin.

I came to know from a pastor who is well known to me one another similar case. In this case the patient was an old man of 75years he is also a doctor by profession and he is having lung cancer. The pastor visited him in the hospital since somebody suggested to do that, when he went for a prayer meeting in that locality. The pastor was in haste but he just managed to visit the patient on his return trip. Pastor said us that he just got near the patient and prayed for him, but Holy Spirit reminded our pastor that this patient has to forgive many people. So our pastor sat beside him and asked him whether he has any thing against somebody. If so pastor suggested him to forgive them. The patient denied first, after a little time of silence the patient spoke looking straight at pastor that he is against with a fellow neighbor with whom he has a court case and is still running the case for the last 15 years and to another one that is his wife. He said that he will forgive every body except these two. So the pastor spent some more time with him and told many things how our Jesus forgave every body. After he heard the pastor for half an hour the old man agreed that he will forgive this two people also. As a doctor the old man was sure that he is going to die in a few days because his cancer is in the secondary stage. And our pastor prayed for him and left. After few weeks our pastor got a phone call from the old man saying that he is alright now. The old man said to the pastor, on pastors leaving the hospital that day he prayed to Jesus and forgave every body that harmed him. The very next day he felt fresh and free and he felt that something gone out of his lungs. When the duty doctor came next morning he explained and suggested the doctor to repeat the tests once more as he felt normal in his lungs. To their astonishment they found the blood counts came normal and there is no trace of cancer. After a few days he was discharged from the hospital. After reaching his house he withdraws the court case which he filed against his tenant. He joined with his wife and is living now very happy praising our Lord.
What do these cases show in common?
I suggest you to study on this subject deeply.

[JulySheMustFly]

One thought.
The healing desired has to be in God's will. I do believe some are permitted to continue to suffer in sicknes because God is using them in some greater way. If they were perfectly healthy they would not have the spiritual impact that they do.

[ChrisCountryGirl]

I think the real cause of sickness has a lot to do on how you live your life and what you eat/drink

[yodafett]

Speaking of illinesses as a wage of the First Sin, and the Fall, then yes, all illness comes from sin, but if you mean on a daily basis, the flu is become someone thought a bad though about someone is at the same extreme as people who blame the devil for every single thing wrong in the world today, absolving us of the guilt.

Do I think the "current" sin is a cause of some illness? Yes.

For all, or even 90%? No.

[branhoff]

I believe that almost all diseases are caused from consquences. Sometimes you didn't do anything wrong. For instance, perhaps some one in you family smokes and you develop lung cancer. It wasn't your fault but you suffer the consquences of your family's action. Headaches are often caused by stress. God says to trust in him and not to worry. So a natural consquence of this would be pressure and pain. I don't think all diseases are direct punishments of God I think God set laws and commandments for our own benefit and when we stray from his word we suffer.

[- DRA -]

What is the real cause of sickness?
In my opinion majority of sickness come from sin.
I think this a subject to study in deep. Christians should study on this, because Bible says so many things on this. (Example; Jesus heals a paralyzed man in Luke 5: 17 to 26.) Exceptions are there (like the incident on Jesus heals a man born blind, read in john 9: 1 to 11.). In the Old Testament there are incidents where God send plagues to people who disobeyed His words. Disobeying Gods word is a sin. In my opinion and from my studies of the bible I came to conclusion that majority of sickness comes because of sin. I am sure that 90%of the readers will disagree with my opinion initially but later they will agree with me. I am not sure whether every disease comes from sin.

Head ache, I discussed with many doctors on this. Doctors don’t find a single reason for this. Doctors say that there are different types of head ache and the causes are different. Head ache is not the real sickness but it is a reaction of our metabolism to some situations abnormally formed inside our body. To say for example if we keep on sleepless nights we will feel head ache, then again we feel head ache when we face some big problems, this is because of excessive load on our brain. But do you know there is a biblical way to cure this?

Take the case of Head ache caused by burden and sleep less nights due to some problems. What is the biblical way to over come this? It is so simple that is to leave the problem to our Jesus Christ and go to sleep. Then the question may come, how do we entrust this to Jesus? Again it is simple Have faith in him and pray to him and entrust your problems to Him. If you disagree on this, my answer to you is quite simple...Why don’t you go and try this in practical and come back with the reply? Why everyone doesn’t understand this? The answer is also very simple but very serious because the ruler of this world is Satan. He doesn’t like somebody go near to Jesus. Read the bible words: Matthew 11: 28 to 30 “Come to me, all of you are tired from carrying your heavy loads, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke and put it on you, and learn from me, because I am gentile and humble in spirit; and you will find rest. The yoke I will give you is easy, and the load I will put on you is light”.
If you have the faith in Jesus everything is easy. (Women healed on touching Jesus cloak because of her faith in Jesus: Matthew 9: 20 to 22) We usually have a feeling that we have to face our problems alone. This is wrong. God will send miraculous solutions on our problems, may be through a messenger like a friend or by changing the mind of another person, or by changing the situations. I here tell an example; think you’re your superior or your Boss is against you. And he misunderstands you on every act. What will you do? As you don’t like to leave the company you will try yourself to correct his feelings about you or try to impress him in a different way. But this will usually end in a negative result, so you will have this head ache and sleepless nights etc. If this continues you will be moved in to some other stage of sickness say hypertension etc which may again lead to a heart attack. Then think about the main cause of this heart attack? It is the lack of faith in Jesus Christ. Consider in the above example, that you prayed to our Jesus Christ about this and entrusted your this problem to Him. Result will be positive, I am sure about this. It is easy for our God to change the mind of your Boss or to change the situation. Holy Spirit is our guide, when we pray to Jesus Holy Spirit will come suddenly and help us in a different way than we think as a solution. How ever hard we try it is not possible to change another mind, there is a barrier in-between this that is the spirit. This may be a good spirit as Holy Spirit or it may be an evil spirit like Devil. Devil will always deceive but the Holy Spirit only do well and guide you in the right path. So who is causing this head ache? Is it the Holy Spirit? No it is the evil one.
To emphasize on the above point Here I state one example of a true testimony of one my known case. One of our church member, and young man of 35 years struggled with cancer last year; He is a Doctor by profession. He is now working in Australia. He got a cancer in his neck with two swellings which turned malignant. Nobody expected him to survive. Doctors found no hope. After 5 months of struggle with this he got cured. This is a miracle. His father, mother, wife and his relatives and the church prayed for him. This man states in his testimony that he got enmity with his own brother who is a born again and as he turned to Pentecostal belief, several years back. His brother was thrown out of his house because this man turned to be a Pentecost. Pastors came to this fellow and prayed for him asked him if he got something against somebody. If so, they advised him, to forgive them for that. That night Holy Spirit remembered him about his brother. And he stared praying to Jesus to forgive him because of his attitude towards his brother. He confessed his sin to Jesus. The next day onwards he started to recover gradually, the swellings came smaller and vanished. When they approached the next time to the hospital for further check up, doctors and other relatives found that he is perfectly alright, his blood counts are normal with no trace of cancer. Now this fellow is a strong believer and happily living with his family in Australia. This man very strongly says that this cancer was cured as soon as he forgave his brother. He says that his cancer was because of his sin.

I came to know from a pastor who is well known to me one another similar case. In this case the patient was an old man of 75years he is also a doctor by profession and he is having lung cancer. The pastor visited him in the hospital since somebody suggested to do that, when he went for a prayer meeting in that locality. The pastor was in haste but he just managed to visit the patient on his return trip. Pastor said us that he just got near the patient and prayed for him, but Holy Spirit reminded our pastor that this patient has to forgive many people. So our pastor sat beside him and asked him whether he has any thing against somebody. If so pastor suggested him to forgive them. The patient denied first, after a little time of silence the patient spoke looking straight at pastor that he is against with a fellow neighbor with whom he has a court case and is still running the case for the last 15 years and to another one that is his wife. He said that he will forgive every body except these two. So the pastor spent some more time with him and told many things how our Jesus forgave every body. After he heard the pastor for half an hour the old man agreed that he will forgive this two people also. As a doctor the old man was sure that he is going to die in a few days because his cancer is in the secondary stage. And our pastor prayed for him and left. After few weeks our pastor got a phone call from the old man saying that he is alright now. The old man said to the pastor, on pastors leaving the hospital that day he prayed to Jesus and forgave every body that harmed him. The very next day he felt fresh and free and he felt that something gone out of his lungs. When the duty doctor came next morning he explained and suggested the doctor to repeat the tests once more as he felt normal in his lungs. To their astonishment they found the blood counts came normal and there is no trace of cancer. After a few days he was discharged from the hospital. After reaching his house he withdraws the court case which he filed against his tenant. He joined with his wife and is living now very happy praising our Lord.
What do these cases show in common?
I suggest you to study on this subject deeply.

For sure, understanding disease or sickness is not a simple issue. The Bible discusses it from various angles:
* In Exodus 9:8-12, God sends boils upon the Egyptians to help persuade them to allow the Israelites to leave.
* In Job 2:7-10, God allows satan to afflict Job with painful sores or boils to test his faith.
* In John chapter 9, Jesus taught us that physical afflictions (i.e. blindness) are not always the direct result of sin.
* In 2 Corinthians 12:7, Saul was given a thorn in the flesh (probably some unknown sort of physical affliction) to help him to remain humble.

Your idea about forgiveness between directly linked sickness or disease is not one that I can find any scriptural basis for ... not trying to be offensive ... just honest. Consider 1 Timothy 5:23. Timothy suffered from some physical ailments. Did Paul instruct him to forgive others so he could be cured? Nope. Do you see where I'm coming from.

Do you have any scriptural examples of forgiveness of others being directly linked to a person being cured of a physical affliction?

[goodmac2006]

Impurities. These are the real cause of sickness. When something is incompatible with your body's functions, it blocks regular functioning, resulting in dysfunction. The cure? Truth, love and a good diet.

[BGMCFAR]

Ibelieve that a God of love and things that good is going to punish us for a sin if so then Christ would have died in vain. sickness and illnes come from one place and it started in Eden with Satan andhe is the father of ALL heartache and miseryinthis old world.and a healthy diet and exercise helps too

[Zecryphon]

Ibelieve that a God of love and things that good is going to punish us for a sin if so then Christ would have died in vain. sickness and illnes come from one place and it started in Eden with Satan andhe is the father of ALL heartache and miseryinthis old world.and a healthy diet and exercise helps too
So if I'm to understand you correctly, you're saying that we have sickness because we're sinners and God punishes us by allowing us to be sick? This was addressed on the Wrestling With the Basics podcast a while ago and the host said, that that line of thinking is one of the greatest lies the devil ever told. You don't experience sickness because you've been bad. To follow that line of thinking out rationally, I guess a blind person must be a really big sinner then. What did Christopher Reeve do that was SO bad in the eyes of God, that God caused him to be thrown off that horse? Sickness exists because we all now live in a fallen world, not because we are bad people.

God has given us the knowledge to fight diseases and sickness and common ailments such as the headache. It sounds to me like you just want to sit on your hands and do nothing to keep yourself healthy and just let God do everything for you. If you're struck with a serious affliction like cancer, will you even seek out treatment or will you just leave this sin issue at the cross with Jesus and hope for the best? If God has given us the gift of modern medicine I think we dishonor God by not using it to keep ourselves, our bodies, which are a temple unto the Lord, healthy.

[christianmomof3]

I believe that illness is a result of the fall and came into the world because of sin and Satan.
Some specific illness may be rooted in specific sins but I don't think all of them are.
Some illnesses are just a result of this world being corrupted and full of viruses and bacteria and mosquitos etc...
I always wondered why God made mosquitos and viruses, but they are probably a result of the fall.
Therefore, not every single illness is a result of a specific sin.
Headaches are often caused by misaligned teeth.

[ydouxist]

The root cause of sickness and disease, I believe are both. Natural (dietary) and spiritual "Stop sinning less something worse happen to you.)





)

[Jaison]

When we study the cause of sickness with our science we find that viruses, bacteria’s , food and habits etc But when we look on the subject spiritually the one main reason for sickness is sin. I don’t know how to give a scientific explanation on Sin and Spirit. I think it is foolish to study our bible with our science because Science and Spiritual truth are different. What is faith in science? How could we accept scientifically that women got pregnant with out knowing a man? If we study with our science The Christianity is baseless. How can we prove scientifically that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Or can you tell scientifically what Love is?
It is not wise to study our God with our science.
I have given two true testimonies how cancer got cured where medical science failed. Doctors say this miracle because it is something beyond their science. In both these case cancer got cured on confession of a sin. (Sin in this case-forgiveness.) This is something spiritual, not a science.

[yodafett]

But that doesn't mean that ALL sickness and curing is spiritual. You say not to discount God for science, and I agree! But to throw away what science can prove in God's created world is the same mentality, isn't it?

[RichardE]

I am scientist to the core on this and do not believe that disease comes through sin, gods not vicious, and if he is, I’m out of here by the click of a finger.

Disease is bacteria, mutations and cells in the body, and personally I find it a bit of an insult for some people to forget this, the human body is the most complex thing on earth, from more connections in a drop of blood compared to all the universes stars, to a self serving system which fights disease of which we still don’t fully know of, I mean we only use 10% average of our brain, you could say our true potential has not been unlocked at all.

We don’t even understand out immune system fully as new discoveries like the brain working against disease is still being discovered, and the idea of hope and emotional joy like laughter causing the upkeep of speed with our white blood cells.

Through nature and ultimately gods great plan and creation, we contain a huge fighting force which fights of diseases which are created naturally and which we fight naturally, I know plenty of good people who have caught diseases which killed them and bad people who never even suffered such illnesses, so the idea that sin or god would be balanced with illness, goes straight out the window.

Now while I do believe god can say speed up your immune system or make it stronger, as in making a slight tweak, I don’t believe he can just take away cancer, most of that job is up to doctors and your own body, otherwise it would be very unfair as I know plenty who have prayed, were good people and are dead.

Like I said, while god will be with you and make small tweaks time to time, its ultimately up to the power, age and will of your body and the fantastic doctors that look after you.

God gave you an incredible brain and body, please look into it and read some scientific books on desease and illness.

I mean there was a time when we really did think just prayre would work, it was called the middle ages, didnt do england much good.

[- DRA -]

When we study the cause of sickness with our science we find that viruses, bacteria’s , food and habits etc But when we look on the subject spiritually the one main reason for sickness is sin.

Not sure how you reached this conclusion. Let's discuss the passages you have in mind to support your conclusion.

I don’t know how to give a scientific explanation on Sin and Spirit. I think it is foolish to study our bible with our science because Science and Spiritual truth are different. What is faith in science? How could we accept scientifically that women got pregnant with out knowing a man? If we study with our science The Christianity is baseless. How can we prove scientifically that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Or can you tell scientifically what Love is?
It is not wise to study our God with our science.
I have given two true testimonies how cancer got cured where medical science failed. Doctors say this miracle because it is something beyond their science. In both these case cancer got cured on confession of a sin. (Sin in this case-forgiveness.) This is something spiritual, not a science.

Sorry, but the "two true testimonies" must be evaluated in light of what God's word says i.e. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 1 Peter 4:11a, 2 Peter 1:3, Romans 10:17.

Not to be offensive, but have you ever read and really considered 1 Kings chapter 13? An old prophet gave the impression he was giving a "true testimony," but wasn't. And, the prophet from Judah believed it. Please read the story and give it some thought. See what happened to the gullible prophet. :eek:

[RichardE]

I think a real problem here is that when the Bible was written, well lets just compare thier knoledge of medical science and understanding of cells and bacteria were basically nill. I mean even great civilisations like the Egyptians were very basic on thier understandings, they thought our bodies were channels like rivers which got blocked up, so they drained blood mostly to try and solve it.

Has no one ever stood back and wondered why we have been living longer as history goes through time to present day?

[- DRA -]

I think a real problem here is that when the Bible was written, well lets just compare thier knoledge of medical science and understanding of cells and bacteria were basically nill. I mean even great civilisations like the Egyptians were very basic on thier understandings, they thought our bodies were channels like rivers which got blocked up, so they drained blood mostly to try and solve it.

Has no one ever stood back and wondered why we have been living longer as history goes through time to present day?

I think it is a given fact that we (the medical and scientific community) today have a much better knowledge of medical and other branches of science. However, God's knowledge is a totally different matter. He created the world as we know it -- even the human body with all its complex systems. And, thousands of years later, we are still trying to better understand the wonders of His creation.

My understanding is that God's word furnishes us with all that we need to please and serve Him today i.e. 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Therefore, I firmly believe that sickness is not directly related at all to a lack of forgiveness on our part toward those who have sinned against us. In scientific language, I find it lacking a scriptural cause and effect. While I recognize that you have not been promoting this idea, my previous posts were addressing these thoughts.

Actually, the human lifespan was much higher in earlier times. Nowadays, in developed or developing countries, lifespans are increasing (generally speaking) ... but nothing like in the early periods of Genesis through the time of Abraham.

[RichardE]

Well yes biblical figures like Moses who apprently lived to so many hundred years but I cant really say yes or no to that, scientifically earlier humans didnt live longer as it hasnt been proven, I wont worry over that matter either way. As with anything from the bible, it cannot be factually proven, so I just decide not to comment, but in the science world with proven data, no one lived longer in ancient times, you were lucky if you could reach 30.

I do belive gods word is very important, there would be no point in me bieng here if I didnt but I myself can find nothing in the Bible that would be remotely useful if you had a medical affliction.

Far from me to say praying doesnt work, it does, but it isant like, that man has cancer, he prayed, god made it disspear.

it cant work like that as its completely unfair and breaks the natural laws of this earth.

And I wasnt posting my last posts directly at you, I was simply saying to the masses as you could say, to think that you get illnesses through sin would make god unbalnced, un just and a god i would refuse to worship, but I know in my heart he doesnt and its simply science.

Ive always felt science furthers my belief in the lord, as you cannot create life with innanimate objects and we are simply using the minds the good lord gave us to sort out the problems of today.

And thats why we are such complex and amazing biengs, ever changing and evolving and developing. Some good some bad, but if anyone else here has ever had the well privalidge to learn about medicine through time like I did, you really see some incredible men and women who through them selfs have helped make the world a better place by working hard and developing these ground breaking cures.

[- DRA -]

Well yes biblical figures like Moses who apprently lived to so many hundred years but I cant really say yes or no to that, scientifically earlier humans didnt live longer as it hasnt been proven, I wont worry over that matter either way. As with anything from the bible, it cannot be factually proven, so I just decide not to comment, but in the science world with proven data, no one lived longer in ancient times, you were lucky if you could reach 30.

Moses lived about 120 years (Acts 7:22-36), with his death about 1445 B.C. Genesis 5:27 says Methuselah lived 969 years. What do you mean by "ancient times?"

Not to be picking at you, but it sounds as if you are pretty deep into science. So deep, in fact, that you only really trust in scientific data. Let's go back to the topic of the thread. Suppose you are a modern day scientist transported back during the days of the plagues in Exodus 9:8-12. What scientific or medical tests would you run to diagnose the sudden onset of the boils and why they only affected the Egyptians and their animals and not the Israelites? Frankly, from an epidemiological perspective, I can tell you what my report would say ... "Pharoah, you need to obey God and let His people go."

I do belive gods word is very important, there would be no point in me bieng here if I didnt but I myself can find nothing in the Bible that would be remotely useful if you had a medical affliction.

Once again, not to be picking, but the God I serve starts with a capital "G."

Really? There's nothing in the Bible that would help you? What about 2 Timothy 3:16-17? Do you believe the Scriptures furnish us with what those passages say? If not, why not?

Far from me to say praying doesnt work, it does, but it isant like, that man has cancer, he prayed, god made it disspear.

it cant work like that as its completely unfair and breaks the natural laws of this earth.

Like you, I have reservations about the man who had cancer and forgave others and was healed. I am not suggesting that God couldn't do it, but that I simply cannot find a scriptural basis to support the reasoning.

And I wasnt posting my last posts directly at you, I was simply saying to the masses as you could say, to think that you get illnesses through sin would make god unbalnced, un just and a god i would refuse to worship, but I know in my heart he doesnt and its simply science.

No problem. I didn't think the posts were directed at me. I was just commenting on them.

I don't believe science accounts for every example of human affliction/sickness that we find in the Bible. Take Job. Science had nothing to do with that. His boils were given by satan to test his faith. And, as previously mentioned, Paul had a thorn in the flesh to remind him to be humble. Nothing scientific to that. Frankly, no matter what modern day medicine or treatment that we might offer him today (if we could), he wouldn't be rid of the problem until God decided it was going to happen.

Ive always felt science furthers my belief in the lord, as you cannot create life with innanimate objects and we are simply using the minds the good lord gave us to sort out the problems of today.

Good point! It takes life to produce life.

And thats why we are such complex and amazing biengs, ever changing and evolving and developing. Some good some bad, but if anyone else here has ever had the well privalidge to learn about medicine through time like I did, you really see some incredible men and women who through them selfs have helped make the world a better place by working hard and developing these ground breaking cures.

By "evolving" I assume you mean micro, not macro? Or, am I mistaken?

I applaud the efforts of those who have made the medical breakthroughs that have improved our quality of life. :clap: However, they can't fix all problems. We still die. God set that system in place long ago.

[RichardE]

The egyptian plagues and what not were a miracle as such, I would personally say god triggered a skin deformity inside the bodies of the egyptians.

Then again most scientists disgree with the idea of the slaves and what not now, the pyramid builders were more than likely villagers on the side of the river nile.

BBC Documentary "building the pyramids, the great mystery unlocked" Should watch it sometime.

Then again I'm niether going to debate this either way, as there are strong views on both but before science, archeology and historical research does more, I will simply stay open minded to all theories.

I am more an new testament to old testament man myself, yet again its my choice, I see no point in debating the whys as it could go on for years.

The god i serve can be any shape or form and has all the power of the univerce, he has better things to worry about than my capital letters.

It certainly has measure, timothys scripture is important and I do belive the bible serves great purpose but I do a lot of thinking and reading outside of it aswell, its not my only book of learning, and I was kinda specific, the bible is not about to give you any cure for illness except prayre.

I agree, the all mighty could do it, but it would be unfair and he would be breaking natural laws, which god doesnt do.

(The law bending thoery - if a man jumps of a 3 story building because hes suisidal, god cannot just stop him falling and hitting the curb, that would break natural laws, however he can bend them a bit so the impact is not death worthy as such, the man is paralised but survives)

Thats kinda how I see god working, bending the laws we live in, but not breaking them

Job is a special case, its like these people who suddenly have blood coming out of thier body parts where jesus was nailed and thier forehead gaining cuts from his crown of thorns. Most of those cases have been unexplained, but still, I find the story of job kinda disterbing, just to prove satan wrong, god allowed job through all that suffering, even though he was a kind good man, kinda sick in my book, and as im not much of an old testament beliver, i have reservations, yet again my opinion, im not going to enforce it.

I belive in evolution in two terms

Animals evolved and still evolve today but are of gods great desighn, its like you can design a simple object, but it can change and get better over time, but the core is still there. Its like dinosaurs cant be denied and to do so (no offence to people who do) is kinda "shut eyes" dont want to know kinda attitute. Then again this theory of animals evolving can still work biblically, our earth took ages to create, science is proving this, but I am niether worried about this nor scared as I see god as the driving force, but its simply how all these natural laws were put into place.

Even the great stephen hawking himself said something along the lines "the univerce and all its workings are such a butiful creation of art and engineering, it has been put together so perfectly that if it was to go out of line by any degree, everything would collapce, it must have been done by some great creator"

Humans however I have no idea on and I'm going to accept niether arguments untill solid proof is put my way.

And I see death as not a problem, as I do not wish to live forever, everything on earth dies and its our natural order of things, even if I didnt know I have a place for me after, I still wouldnt change it, as I am a strong beliver in order and balance in this world.

[leon4900]

DRA and Richard, you both have good points on this. I'm of the Newtonian mindset on much of this topic, meaning that knowing the creation is knowing the creator. Knowledge and wisdom (Godly wisdom) are powerful tools in combating the darkness of our world, and God and science are not incompatible since God created what we study scientifically.
And I believe that sin is the root cause of sickness for this reason. Just as God is a triune being we, as images of Him, are in a sense triune beings in mind, body, and soul. When Adam and Eve corrupted themselves by disobeying God, that act of rebellion corrupted the whole of them.
Genesis 3:19, God says: "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."
We decay back into dust through aging and disease which are corruptions of our bodies brought on by corruption of the soul humankind. Though there's no scientific way of showing this, it still is a matter of common sense. At least on the individual scale.
For instance, sexual immorality can lead to the spreading of many diseases.
Alcoholism not only can destroy a person's liver and cause diabetes, it can bring out an abusive nature in a person that is then taught to their offspring. A situation like this fulfills the statement in Exodus 20:5 "visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me". Sin and the corruption it brings is not only inherent, but is also learned and perpetuated.
Personally, I find that my physical health greatly effects both my mind and spirit. Conversely, the stronger my prayer life is, the more energetic and motivated I am, and the more mental exercise I get the more stimulated I am.
While keeping a balance between these aspects of our lives is important, we are still bound for a physical death. Yet Christ promises new, incorruptible bodies for his followers in the resurrection.

Next. While there is bacteria and viruses that effect us and cause all kinds of physical symptoms, who's to say that God has not plan in these things. Just because the Bubonic plague was caused by a bacteria carried by rats on ships from Asia, are they not God's creation and therefore subject to His will? Perhaps there was some divine plan God has, whether to test (as in Job) or to punish (as with Pharoah). The purpose may only be known by God Himself.

Maybe we need to study more in depth both the nature of God through scripture and the nature of His creation through science in light of God's character as revealed by scripture to truly understand and appreciate the relationship between sickness and sin.

[BGMCFAR]

So if I'm to understand you correctly, you're saying that we have sickness because we're sinners and God punishes us by allowing us to be sick? This was addressed on the Wrestling With the Basics podcast a while ago and the host said, that that line of thinking is one of the greatest lies the devil ever told. You don't experience sickness because you've been bad. To follow that line of thinking out rationally, I guess a blind person must be a really big sinner then. What did Christopher Reeve do that was SO bad in the eyes of God, that God caused him to be thrown off that horse? Sickness exists because we all now live in a fallen world, not because we are bad people.

God has given us the knowledge to fight diseases and sickness and common ailments such as the headache. It sounds to me like you just want to sit on your hands and do nothing to keep yourself healthy and just let God do everything for you. If you're struck with a serious affliction like cancer, will you even seek out treatment or will you just leave this sin issue at the cross with Jesus and hope for the best? If God has given us the gift of modern medicine I think we dishonor God by not using it to keep ourselves, our bodies, which are a temple unto the Lord, healthy. you read it to fast

[BGMCFAR]

you read it to fast
satan is the fther of disease and illness and God dosen't punish us with diease because of sin disease and illness areresults of sin and sitting on my hands I've had open heart surgery five artie bypass and six weeks later in the classroom as a full time student doing 15 units a semester in college God and the sureons did their part and the rest was left up to me I'also since 12/04 had two eye surgeries because I was losing my sight andhad two majorsurgeries on my left hip one to pin abck togehter after and accident and the had the whole hip jiont replaced this last summer and was also back class 8/14 so tell how much I been sitting on my hands letting God do everything Sorry you're mistaken mayGod Bles you :)

[Jaison]

DRA and Richard, you both have good points on this. I'm of the Newtonian mindset on much of this topic, meaning that knowing the creation is knowing the creator. Knowledge and wisdom (Godly wisdom) are powerful tools in combating the darkness of our world, and God and science are not incompatible since God created what we study scientifically.
And I believe that sin is the root cause of sickness for this reason. Just as God is a triune being we, as images of Him, are in a sense triune beings in mind, body, and soul. When Adam and Eve corrupted themselves by disobeying God, that act of rebellion corrupted the whole of them.
Genesis 3:19, God says: "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."
We decay back into dust through aging and disease which are corruptions of our bodies brought on by corruption of the soul humankind. Though there's no scientific way of showing this, it still is a matter of common sense. At least on the individual scale.
For instance, sexual immorality can lead to the spreading of many diseases.
Alcoholism not only can destroy a person's liver and cause diabetes, it can bring out an abusive nature in a person that is then taught to their offspring. A situation like this fulfills the statement in Exodus 20:5 "visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me". Sin and the corruption it brings is not only inherent, but is also learned and perpetuated.
Personally, I find that my physical health greatly effects both my mind and spirit. Conversely, the stronger my prayer life is, the more energetic and motivated I am, and the more mental exercise I get the more stimulated I am.
While keeping a balance between these aspects of our lives is important, we are still bound for a physical death. Yet Christ promises new, incorruptible bodies for his followers in the resurrection.

Next. While there is bacteria and viruses that effect us and cause all kinds of physical symptoms, who's to say that God has not plan in these things. Just because the Bubonic plague was caused by a bacteria carried by rats on ships from Asia, are they not God's creation and therefore subject to His will? Perhaps there was some divine plan God has, whether to test (as in Job) or to punish (as with Pharoah). The purpose may only be known by God Himself.

Maybe we need to study more in depth both the nature of God through scripture and the nature of His creation through science in light of God's character as revealed by scripture to truly understand and appreciate the relationship between sickness and sin.
Brother Leon,
We both agree on the subject specified. Gods plan is devine but our plan is scientific. A big difference is there. God created us and specified some limit to our knowledge at the time of creation. We can not study the creator, that is the God, fully because our brain is pre defined to a limit set by Him, I think.

[rosenherman]

One thought.
The healing desired has to be in God's will. I do believe some are permitted to continue to suffer in sicknes because God is using them in some greater way. If they were perfectly healthy they would not have the spiritual impact that they do.
True:wave: :clap: :thumbsup: :tutu:

[Jaison]

you read it to fast
Brother BGMCFAR,
Nobody said you should not go to a doctor or to modern medicine. That knowledge is also given by the God. It is good to use that. But I in my original post mentioned two incidents where medical science failed. Those people also went before good medical treatment. On their cure what doctors say is 'Miracle.' I am asking you what is this 'miracle'? God healed the cancer because of his love and mercy. Gods love will be more when we confess our sin to Him. This is what I feel.

[calidog]

the root cause of sickness and disease stems from Gods' cursing the earth

[Scorcher505]

Just because God can cure a sickness does not mean that he made you sick, or sin made you sick. The vast majority of sickness is casued by bacteria and virus. Some things that we call a sickness are just reactions to bacteria and viruses, such as a fever. You avoid being sick by taking care of yourself. When you are sick, you take medicine and get better. But there is no better medicine than prayer to heal the sick, both physically and spiritualy

[RichardE]

Im confused by people saying god made cures, no he didnt, If I reamber its the breakthroughs and hardwork of men and women to further enhance our lives, no denying god is the ultimate creator of us and what not but give some common courtcy to your fellow brothers and sisters who have worked countless hours for the benifit of human kind.

And our knoledge is getting better everyday, god has put no limit on our brains, its just a little thing called development, we get better and my knoledgeable by age and the years humankind grows, history has shown we get better with our brains and evolve as such. And we explain things we used to not know about. Just compare 2007 to 1990 and you will see some huge leaps in understanding, tech and medical understanding, give it a 1000 year gap, you see an absolute amazing leap forward.

One day I hope science can finally prove the existance of the lord himself, I mean we are half there by the fact life can be only created by life, and scientists have already said when the world was apprently created by the big bang, there was no life, so who put it there huh?

[yodafett]

How can anything be made WITHOUT him?

John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

[RichardE]

Well raw materials yes but he didnt make the medicine.

I mean its like my lego, I know oil was created in the earth over millions of years due to dead sealife under huge amounts of pressure without any oxygen, then using a refinery station the correct formula is extracted for making plastic, then it goes through a long process into plastic, then the lego company melt them into shapes.

Please enlighten me where god comes into that process (please reamber im using this as an example)

I think way too many people dont give humans credit, instead even human creations are suddenly his own creations, thats kinda insulting in some ways to the human race, how about the people who do belive god does make medicine and what not, sit back and let scientists get on with it, no offence but i think things will work smoother.

[yodafett]

You think that we can do better than God at making things tick?

[yodafett]

Well raw materials yes but he didnt make the medicine.

I mean its like my lego, I know oil was created in the earth over millions of years due to dead sealife under huge amounts of pressure without any oxygen, then using a refinery station the correct formula is extracted for making plastic, then it goes through a long process into plastic, then the lego company melt them into shapes.

Please enlighten me where god comes into that process (please reamber im using this as an example)

He created all of reality, which includes the blueprints for everything that is created within that reality. He designed how organic material would decompose over time. How plastics, styrafoam, and petroleum could be derived from it. He also designed how molecules in bread could sprout mold, which could then be harvested to create penicillin.

I'm not saying that Madam Curie did nothing but what God controlled her hands for. I'm saying that He PROVIDED for the very ability of every scientific discovery that has ever occurred, from fire, right up to bleeding edge IT and astrophysics. Saying that He had/has no place in the advancement of the Sciences is ignoring the scriptures say about all creation comeing from Him.

[RichardE]

See I belive all matter and so forth came from the big bang, which he created, he knew man and woman would create things but he didnt make the blueprints in my eyes, yes he understood them perfectly but he let humans get on with it, as we are more than capable, as we have proven over the last 5000 years.

God dont controll my hands when I write or when I make something out of my technic or when i make a programe, he knows every single thing that could be done but its up to me to be the creator with the raw materials provided.

I mean if your thoery is true, that means that all the great programe developers just have the talent to prgramme and never needed to study all the books they did, use test and fail methods and try hard and experiment over and over again before they got it right.

God gives raw materials, we use them.

Oh and by the way, if god did create the blueprints for everything, I would have thought he would have scrapped guns, nuclear bombs, hydrogen bombs and torture chambers.

[yodafett]

I mean if your thoery is true, that means that all the great programe developers just have the talent to prgramme and never needed to study all the books they did,

Talent and knowledge are 2 entirely diferent things. I've a lot of "raw talent" at things, but that does not mean that I'm as accomplished or knowledge as someone who has studied it. It's just one of the ways he blessed me.


use test and fail methods and try hard and experiment over and over again before they got it right.


That IS pretty much how all scientific methods are tested and vetted. ;) Develop a theory, test it. Modify theory, test it again. *POOF* a scientific discovery or proof, and a new step forward.

[yodafett]

Oh and by the way, if god did create the blueprints for everything, I would have thought he would have scrapped guns, nuclear bombs, hydrogen bombs and torture chambers.

Falls under the Free Will category. If he changed how reality worked so that guns wouldn't function as they do now, we also may not have combustion engines, for example.

And I don't mean literal blueprints, I mean the blueprints of reality, how our universe is designed, The Laws of physics, etc.

[RichardE]

Yes that is what I was saying, science is based on try and error, its why we dont have a cure for aids yet.

Well my firm belief is the design of raw materials, its up to us to move on and create things. Its why we are blessed with the brain we have. Its fantastic.

[BGMCFAR]

WE have a cure for aids its just the information hasn't been released to the generel public thee are some in the scientific community are not talking in due time fda approval

[BGMCFAR]

WE have a cure for aids its just the information hasn't been released to the generel public thee are some in the scientific community are not talking in due time fda approval May the LORD be praised. :thumbsup: ;) :prayer:

[RichardE]

Well we will say, I'm kinda pessimistic there as I'm sure if we had found a cure, whatever it was, even in the beta testing, it would be global knoledge, but here is hoping.