Hell?

[calidog]

If Jesus preached heaven and hell why do we preach heaven and "soft peddle" hell?

[ivory]

If Jesus preached heaven and hell why do we preach heaven and "soft peddle" hell?
I believe many don't what to believe there is a hell.

[JTLauder]

What do you mean "soft peddle" hell? And who's the "we"? I certainly don't do that.

[calidog]

If you don't soft peddle hell "we" is'nt you.
"soft peddle" as appose to "preach" means to soften the message. Jesus preached about hell and heaven. Many of us are willing to quote Jesus about heaven but not hell.

[ivory]

If you don't soft peddle hell "we" is'nt you.
"soft peddle" as appose to "preach" means to soften the message. Jesus preached about hell and heaven. Many of us are willing to quote Jesus about heaven but not hell.
Many Pastors fear they will lose their members if they talk about hell and expose their sins.

[yodafett]

From what I know, the "civilized world" of Western Europe and North America is where this is most prevelant. Places that are less concerned about getting along at all costs and pay more attention to the truth of the message are less likely to soft-sell the doctrine of hell. I blame it on the (fairly recent) development of us being a victim oriented society, that we (in a communal sense) are to afraid of offending someone by telling them "You know, you might want to read that verse about hell again, cause you're looking at long term residency"

[Scorcher505]

Because we are afraid of telling the truth

[Athene]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)

[calidog]

Good point.

Gotta go look at my bible. I'll be back.

[calidog]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)




Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


so do we just tell the first part, or both parts?

[ivory]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)




Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


so do we just tell the first part, or both parts?
We must be bold and tell all parts.

[calidog]

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

here's another intersting verse

[Athene]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)




Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


so do we just tell the first part, or both parts?

Both but first you must demonstrate your belief by drinking poison, holding venemous snakes, healing the sick and casting out demons.

[calidog]

I don't think so.



but we MUST demonstrate our faith.


don't think that's optional.


thanx for the feedback...

[PaladinGirl]

Many pastors are afraid of preaching Hell because they are afraid their people will leave the church.

[calidog]

seems like that would be an ideal time to trust God and see what He will do. It is, after all, His church.

[fishon]

If Jesus preached heaven and hell why do we preach heaven and "soft peddle" hell?

calidog,
I can promise you, I don't "soft peddle" hell!!!

That is a pretty broad statement you made there, friend.

I will agree, hell is not preached as it use to be, but there are plenty of preachers that still preach the whole Word of God--which includes hell.
fishon

[fishon]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)

Athene,
The Good News includes, there is a hell, it is awful and ugly and last forever. The Good News is, just don't have to go their.
fishon

[BGMCFAR]

Athene Matt 4: 7 Jesus said to " It si written YOU shall not tempt the Lord your God . And yes peop[le don't like to hear about hell because maybe there is some hidden sin they may not know about. and so they are afraid they might go there.and that makes them very uncomfortable. So here is the secret ask for forgiveness for all your sins have the faith to believe you are forgiven accept and keep the communications open the Lord and walk in his way. AMEN

[spiritwarrior37]

Many Pastors fear they will lose their members if they talk about hell and expose their sins.
I totally agree with you. When I was growing up the fire and brimstone messages were prevelant in almost every church. Now the messages preached are meant to tickle the ears instead of convict the heart to repentance for sins.

[New_Wineskin]

What do you mean "soft peddle" hell? And who's the "we"? I certainly don't do that.

"We" is calidog and those that think like calidog .

[New_Wineskin]

I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven . I emphasize a relationship with the Father through Jesus' and the Holy Spirit . I have seen too many people who "preach" who speak only of these two places and ignore the Lord completely . It takes the whole concept off-topic and doesn't deal with the reality that those places are future while a relationship with the Lord may start now and is eternal .

[ivory]

I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven . I emphasize a relationship with the Father through Jesus' and the Holy Spirit . I have seen too many people who "preach" who speak only of these two places and ignore the Lord completely . It takes the whole concept off-topic and doesn't deal with the reality that those places are future while a relationship with the Lord may start now and is eternal .
What is the message of the gospel? We are to preach the message of the gospel, and it includes Heaven and Hell.

[Nadiine]

If Jesus preached heaven and hell why do we preach heaven and "soft peddle" hell?

People don't WANT hell to be what it is because it's a concept that they hate.
NO ONE wants to be judged & condemned for their sin - and all of us SIN.

Instead of just doing the things GOD tells us to do TO KEEP OUT OF THIS PLACE, people would rather rebel and CHANGE the Bible to suit their preferences & desires so they can live in sin with less guilt.

If it weren't such a horrible place, GOD wouldn't have gone to such lengths to keep us from it.

Denial never makes it true.

[New_Wineskin]

What is the message of the gospel? We are to preach the message of the gospel, and it includes Heaven and Hell.

You didn't read my post before replying .

Whatever ...

You do what He tells you to do and I will do what He tells me to do .

[ivory]

This is your message:

"I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven "

So with all respect, what part of this did I not understand?:confused:

In love

[New_Wineskin]

This is your message:

"I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven "

So with all respect, what part of this did I not understand?:confused:

In love

You say "with all respect" and then strip my message into that ?

Even so ... with this truncated version , I mentioned "emphasize" twice . You implied that I didn't "include" them at all . Not emphasizing something doesn't mean that it isn't included . The Gospel doesn't emphasize Heaven or Hell , it emphasizes the Lord .

[Athene]

I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven . I emphasize a relationship with the Father through Jesus' and the Holy Spirit . I have seen too many people who "preach" who speak only of these two places and ignore the Lord completely . It takes the whole concept off-topic and doesn't deal with the reality that those places are future while a relationship with the Lord may start now and is eternal .

I think you got it spot on. There's so much more to being a christian then what may happen to us after we die, what about the transformed life that comes through having a relationship with God, and I mean this life, not the after life.

If one goes around preaching hellfire and brimstone, one may get one or two converts - but is that what God wants? People who become christian to escape eternal punishment? Or does He want people who have given their hearts to him and who do their utmost to refrain from sin not out of fear of hell, but through love and a desire to please Him?

Speaking for myself, it wasn't fear of hell that brought me to Christ, and it certainly wasnt because of promises of rewards and an eternity spent in paradise, it was through love and witnessing this transformed life in the people I knew who were christians.

In the words of St Francis of Assisi "Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words"

[Nadiine]

I think you got it spot on. There's so much more to being a christian then what may happen to us after we die, what about the transformed life that comes through having a relationship with God, and I mean this life, not the after life.

If one goes around preaching hellfire and brimstone, one may get one or two converts - but is that what God wants? People who become christian to escape eternal punishment? Or does He want people who have given their hearts to him and who do their utmost to refrain from sin not out of fear of hell, but through love and a desire to please Him?

Speaking for myself, it wasn't fear of hell that brought me to Christ, and it certainly wasnt because of promises of rewards and an eternity spent in paradise, it was through love and witnessing this transformed life in the people I knew who were christians.

In the words of St Francis of Assisi "Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words"

We shouldn't ignore or 'not focus on' ANY of God's taught principles in either testament. It's written in the Bible everywhere.
Here's what happens, ANY Christians that DO talk about it, are labeled doomsday teachers & attacked for being 'negative' & lacking LOVE.
ANY mention of it is "evil" for us to do.

There's no balance. Instead of teaching about hell, judgment, eternity, sin, conviction - moderately as important doctrines, they're all completely swept under the carpet as if they're TABOO & not suited for ANY instruction whatsoever. & becuz YOU ignore it (not you personally, i mean all types who do) means everyone else better ignore it & pretend they don't exist.

But JESUS SPOKE MORE ON HELL THAN HEAVEN... He's guilty of the very thing people refuse to teach about today, (ie. Joel Osteen etc).

On the other side of it, I don't support pastors & teachers that OVERLY abuse those doctrines & beat people up with them either.
Who wants to sit under a pastor that seems to get his jollies out of preaching mainly about condemnation.

THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST INCLUDES SERIOUS CONSEQUENCE FOR SIN. That needs to be included in a balanced way.
ABUSE OF THE DOCTRINES DOESN'T WARRENT A COMPLETE REFUSAL TO TEACH IT.

Imbalance on EITHER side of the condemnational doctrines is serious error.

Act 20:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Act/Act020.html#27) For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

[linssue55]

If Jesus preached heaven and hell why do we preach heaven and "soft peddle" hell?I have never soft peddled any of God's word. None of us should.

[linssue55]

It's coz we are called to preach the good news ;)




Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


so do we just tell the first part, or both parts?ALL of God's word should be spoken. He spoke them with great dogmatism, and we are to be like Him. Are you ashamed to talk about it? Unbelievers NEED to know what the alternative to believing is. Every word is the word of God, and I am proud to proclaim it.

[holo]

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. True, but you don't make people believe by threathening them with hell.

[holo]

I totally agree with you. When I was growing up the fire and brimstone messages were prevelant in almost every church. Now the messages preached are meant to tickle the ears instead of convict the heart to repentance for sins.In my experience (keep in mind that none of us have seen more than perhaps a hundred different churches), churches and people who talk a lot about hell, aren't any better than others, and they're certainly not happier or more loving. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Hell, and descriptions of it, and threats of it, certainly does tickle a lot of ears. You don't have to ignore the entire concept of hell, but if you really need hell to make your message sound good, you have a problem...

[Nadiine]

True, but you don't make people believe by threathening them with hell.

JESUS SPOKE MORE OF HELL than anyone else. Is Jesus in error? or guilty of threatening?

I'd like to know why warning is so conveniently considered a "threat" all of a sudden?

If a parent warns a child that something terrible will happen to them if they cross a busy street without looking, is that a THREAT? No, it's given in warning to KEEP THEM from harm.

Preaching HELL IS WARNING - it's warning becuz GOD PROVIDED THE MEANS TO ESCAPE THAT PLACE and everyone doesn't have to be there.
If the FEAR of hell saved some souls, IS THAT EVIL?
I sure don't think so, no more than my parents threatening me with punishment kept me from doing alot of things I would have otherwise done.

Since Jesus preached about hell, we need to follow His example. I like how people ignore so many of Paul, John, Peter, Luke & Jude's epistles to say "well, JESUS didn't say that, Paul did. etc." THEN WHEN JESUS SAYS IT, IT'S: "well, we shouldn't threaten" :confused:

This is called making the Bible say what you want it to say, not what it actually teaches.
IT IS part of the gospel - it just needs to be used in BALANCE like all the rest. :thumbsup:
TOO MUCH obsession over any doctrine is warped and corrupts the full truth.

[calidog]

True, but you don't make people believe by threathening them with hell.
my understanding is we don't make anybody believe anything.
my understanding is we share the gospel.

[calidog]

I don't 'soft peddle' Hell . I simply don't emphasize it . Nor do I emphasize Heaven . I emphasize a relationship with the Father through Jesus' and the Holy Spirit . I have seen too many people who "preach" who speak only of these two places and ignore the Lord completely . It takes the whole concept off-topic and doesn't deal with the reality that those places are future while a relationship with the Lord may start now and is eternal .
It sounds like you are more of a teacher of the word of God.
It sounds as though you're audience, for the most part, has the foundation; the gospel.
Many unbelievers are being convicted and searching for truth and searching for hope. They (by our nature) resist sumbitting to higher authority and accept that they are naturally sinful. Yet they love to hear that God gives hope.

[Athene]

JESUS SPOKE MORE OF HELL than anyone else. Is Jesus in error? or guilty of threatening?

I'd like to know why warning is so conveniently considered a "threat" all of a sudden?

If a parent warns a child that something terrible will happen to them if they cross a busy street without looking, is that a THREAT? No, it's given in warning to KEEP THEM from harm.

Preaching HELL IS WARNING - it's warning becuz GOD PROVIDED THE MEANS TO ESCAPE THAT PLACE and everyone doesn't have to be there.
If the FEAR of hell saved some souls, IS THAT EVIL?
I sure don't think so, no more than my parents threatening me with punishment kept me from doing alot of things I would have otherwise done.

Since Jesus preached about hell, we need to follow His example. I like how people ignore so many of Paul, John, Peter, Luke & Jude's epistles to say "well, JESUS didn't say that, Paul did. etc." THEN WHEN JESUS SAYS IT, IT'S: "well, we shouldn't threaten" :confused:

This is called making the Bible say what you want it to say, not what it actually teaches.
IT IS part of the gospel - it just needs to be used in BALANCE like all the rest. :thumbsup:
TOO MUCH obsession over any doctrine is warped and corrupts the full truth.

For the sake of pointing out the obvious, things arent' the same now as they were when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus was preaching to people who were singing from the same hymn book allbeit on a different page, or maybe same hymn book earlier edition would be a better analogy . . . ;)

Alot of people in this day and age have rejected God, or at the very least rejected christianity and all that goes with it, warning about the dangers of hell to somebody who does not believe there is a hell may not be an effective evangalism tool. If we want to bring people into christianity then we need to use different tools.

[Nadiine]

For the sake of pointing out the obvious, things arent' the same now as they were when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus was preaching to people who were singing from the same hymn book allbeit on a different page, or maybe same hymn book earlier edition would be a better analogy . . . ;)

Alot of people in this day and age have rejected God, or at the very least rejected christianity and all that goes with it, warning about the dangers of hell to somebody who does not believe there is a hell may not be an effective evangalism tool. If we want to bring people into christianity then we need to use different tools.

I'm not saying it has to be used as an "evangelism" tool. I'm talking about the training up of a church congregation in general.

I'm not saying we should abruptly walk up to complete strangers with a "hellfire" message alone! lol :doh:
My post was to say we need to BALANCE the truth out.

After all, we can also say that most people know about "Jesus' Love" too. So should we keep hammering that tired point out to people? "Smile, Jesus Loves You!" :cool:

I mean, the repetition of it all - people are still rejecting God even knowing of His love for them too. In fact, they take that love to mean, they won't be judged by God becuz God is so loving, that He only sends the real bad folks to that place - people like Stalin & Hitler.

There are well known generalities on both sides of the hell and love doctrines that most already know - but we still balance them out & use them. =)

Truth in Love. :)

[calidog]

For the sake of pointing out the obvious, things arent' the same now as they were when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus was preaching to people who were singing from the same hymn book allbeit on a different page, or maybe same hymn book earlier edition would be a better analogy . . . ;)

Alot of people in this day and age have rejected God, or at the very least rejected christianity and all that goes with it, warning about the dangers of hell to somebody who does not believe there is a hell may not be an effective evangalism tool. If we want to bring people into christianity then we need to use different tools.change the message somewhat?Tell about how He changed our life, and Has improved our life here on earth?Since many today don't believe in the existence of hell anyway, maybe it's best to leave that alone?

How about heaven?
would it be better not to get focused on that?: Many in this age don't believe in the afterlife anyway.

They will be scratching their heads when they read about the fairy tales in the bible though.

[Athene]

change the message somewhat?Tell about how He changed our life, and Has improved our life here on earth?Since many today don't believe in the existence of hell anyway, maybe it's best to leave that alone?

How about heaven?
would it be better not to get focused on that?: Many in this age don't believe in the afterlife anyway.

They will be scratching their heads when they read about the fairy tales in the bible though.

Put words in peoples mouths much?

[calidog]

I may have. Would'nt surprise me. But I think you've answered my original question on page one. thanx:)

[calidog]

Both but first you must demonstrate your belief by drinking poison, holding venemous snakes, healing the sick and casting out demons.
I see where you're coming from...

[simplyg123]

sorry i didnt take the time to read all the passages on this thread, i was to excited to share what i recently heard.

You ask why do we soft pedal Hell, very good question.

when you spread the word to someone, its always Jesus loves you and he died for you.

accept him and live in heaven eternally.

well what i recently heard made a lot of since. And that is we really should start off with hell.

We should teach the bad stuff first.

ex. if you are a doctor, and someone is just diagnosed with a life ending disease, however the only way to save them is to cut off their pinky.

are you going to go to this person and say im sorry you have madeupillnessitus, we have to cut off your pinky. They will be a little hesitant to let you cut off there pinky because they dont know the alternative.

Spend some time with the alternative, and let them know how bad it is, they will beg you to cut off the pinky.

one more ex.
if your on an airplane and someone says here put on this parachute, it could save your life, you look around noone else has a parachute, you might be like, im not going to look stupid and be the only one with a parachute, and will reject it.

However
if some one comes to you with the worse end of it, like the pilots are passed out, the plane is headed for a mountain peak, tell me, wouldnt you hold on to that parachute for dear life.

well i know this is a bit long and im sorry, the point is, if you tell someone about hell, and how bad things will be, or how horrible the end of times will be, they may hold on to jesus a little tighter

God bless all

[bdarien]

I think we shoul remember what Soloman said about their being a time under Heaven for all things. Christ preached about heaven and hell along with walking with God.

[Nadiine]

sorry i didnt take the time to read all the passages on this thread, i was to excited to share what i recently heard.

You ask why do we soft pedal Hell, very good question.

when you spread the word to someone, its always Jesus loves you and he died for you.

accept him and live in heaven eternally.

well what i recently heard made a lot of since. And that is we really should start off with hell.

We should teach the bad stuff first.

ex. if you are a doctor, and someone is just diagnosed with a life ending disease, however the only way to save them is to cut off their pinky.

are you going to go to this person and say im sorry you have madeupillnessitus, we have to cut off your pinky. They will be a little hesitant to let you cut off there pinky because they dont know the alternative.

Spend some time with the alternative, and let them know how bad it is, they will beg you to cut off the pinky.

one more ex.
if your on an airplane and someone says here put on this parachute, it could save your life, you look around noone else has a parachute, you might be like, im not going to look stupid and be the only one with a parachute, and will reject it.

However
if some one comes to you with the worse end of it, like the pilots are passed out, the plane is headed for a mountain peak, tell me, wouldnt you hold on to that parachute for dear life.

well i know this is a bit long and im sorry, the point is, if you tell someone about hell, and how bad things will be, or how horrible the end of times will be, they may hold on to jesus a little tighter

God bless all

There's a really good Pastor named Ray Comfort & this is his methodology of preaching on hell. Yes.
Makes perfect sense.

Why do we NEED God? If we dont' think there's anything wrong, why are they having to restrict their lives of the pleasures they always enjoyed?
Would you?

It wasn't until I saw my need & my depravity that I reached out.
I agree w/ the method in your post -but it's not the only way that's effective... it makes great sense tho.
amen :wave:

[simplyg123]

There's a really good Pastor named Ray Comfort & this is his methodology of preaching on hell. Yes.
Makes perfect sense.

Why do we NEED God? If we dont' think there's anything wrong, why are they having to restrict their lives of the pleasures they always enjoyed?
Would you?

It wasn't until I saw my need & my depravity that I reached out.
I agree w/ the method in your post -but it's not the only way that's effective... it makes great sense tho.
amen :wave:
i didnt mean for it to be the ONLY way, but i would think a very effective one

[holo]

I'd like to know why warning is so conveniently considered a "threat" all of a sudden?I'm not saying it's a threat, I'm just saying that if you need to talk about horrible stuff to make the good stuff seem good, you have a problem.

Since Jesus preached about hell, we need to follow His example.First of all, are you talking to the same (kind of) people Jesus talked to? Do you know their hearts like he did? I think that if we're to follow examples (especially regarding evangelism), let's rather follow that of Paul.

This is called making the Bible say what you want it to say, not what it actually teaches.
IT IS part of the gospel - it just needs to be used in BALANCE like all the rest. :thumbsup: Balance? We're not talking about yin/yang here :)

It's not about balance. It's all Jesus. It's not 50% me and 50% him, it's all him. It's not partly work and partly grace. It's not partly or half-way anything. It's complete! What should I possibly balance Jesus with anyway? It's LESS of us and MORE of him. :)

[MarkEvan]

Hi Holo,

First of all, are you talking to the same (kind of) people Jesus talked to? Do you know their hearts like he did? I think that if we're to follow examples (especially regarding evangelism), let's rather follow that of Paul.



I agree that we are to imitate Paul....who incidently immitated Jesus....so I guess it all comes back around to following in our Lords example.

We as believers have to preach about both Heaven and hell, which Paul undoubtably did, he preached nothing other than "Christ and Him crucified" to unbelievers, we should do the same, therefore the question "why did Jesus die" comes up and then the "wages of sin," but this must not be over emphasized to the point where Gods love and redeeming work is left out. But then neither can it be the other way around, we can`t just preach about Gods love leaving out His justice.

Mark :)

[Writer before God]

My view on hell is complete and utter separation from God.. Hell will be the complete opposite of heaven.. In the bible it tells us that we will not be able to imagine how great heaven is.. Just think if it is the same magnitude of heaven in a negative way.. What would that be?... I think hell will be horrible and.. I just don't want anyone I know going there.. you know what I mean.

[Nadiine]

I'm not saying it's a threat, I'm just saying that if you need to talk about horrible stuff to make the good stuff seem good, you have a problem.

First of all, are you talking to the same (kind of) people Jesus talked to? Do you know their hearts like he did? I think that if we're to follow examples (especially regarding evangelism), let's rather follow that of Paul.

Balance? We're not talking about yin/yang here :)

It's not about balance. It's all Jesus. It's not 50% me and 50% him, it's all him. It's not partly work and partly grace. It's not partly or half-way anything. It's complete! What should I possibly balance Jesus with anyway? It's LESS of us and MORE of him. :)

Hell is a general doctrine - it pertains to anyone who rejects faith in Christ as their Lord - & refuses to turn from sin.
It pertains to all audiences - saved & lost; it's a general truth , just like salvation is a general truth - both audiences can gleen from it in different ways.

I don't attribute 'balance' to ying & yang (just like i don't attribute reaping & sowing to "karma").
We're to rightly divide the word of God - and we're called to preach the WHOLE GOSPEL to all nations.

Hell is PART of that gospel - it is the result of/consequence of rejection of Christ's merciful gift of pardon. So yes, balance; preach it, don't but make it your ENTIRE message or wrongfully use it as an attack against them.
Truth in Love.

Lastly, your post did use "threat" - that's why I responded to it as such. (my emphasis):
Hell, and descriptions of it, and threats of it, certainly does tickle a lot of ears. You don't have to ignore the entire concept of hell, but if you really need hell to make your message sound good, you have a problem...


We use it as part of a balanced doctrine; like Markeven spoke of. How do you tell people what God saves you FROM if you can't tell them what they escape & how GREAT it is?
IMO, it's when people find no NEED for God that they reject Him.
Until you see your true plight and condition, you don't see a NEED for God.

[holo]

How do you tell people what God saves you FROM if you can't tell them what they escape & how GREAT it is?The Lord has saved me from a lot more than hell. Even if hell turns out to not exist, I'd still hang on to Christ for dear life.

IMO, it's when people find no NEED for God that they reject Him.
Until you see your true plight and condition, you don't see a NEED for God.I understand and know that there are people who are incredibly self-righteous and deceited, and God may want to shake them up. But I don't believe that's the general case. Everybody knows that christians believe in hell and that non-christians will go there. It doesn't seem to matter much, probably because christianity at large, isn't very attractive.

I think the reason christians are so keen on preaching about hell, is that they simply don't have too much else to draw people with, and if you lose that particular doctrine, they fear that people will find no reason to come to Christ in the first place. And THAT'S a bigger problem than alternative views of hell will ever be!

I used to be one of those who came to Christ for the sole reason of fear of hell. Naturally, my relationship with Christ had nothing to do with peace, comfort, joy or love, only necessity.

[MarkEvan]

Holo, if I may ask, what do you say when someone who isn`t a believer asks why Jesus died? Or when you bring up the topic of Jesus dying on the cross..."I deemed to know nothing amongst you corinthians other than Christ and Him crucified," (the Apostle Paul).

Mark :)

[Nadiine]

The Lord has saved me from a lot more than hell. Even if hell turns out to not exist, I'd still hang on to Christ for dear life.


By your admission, HE DID SAVE YOU FROM HELL. So, speaking of hell in witnessing is appropriate, true & correct.

The issue isn't what ELSE he saved you from here - if one IS saved, THEY ARE RESCUED from that place. Period. & believe me, once we step into eternity after this life, we'll be much more thankful that we escaped that place than right now when we cannot fathom it in full.
I value that fact significantly! & will value it later while time is crawling - forever & forever & forever & forever & forever & forever & forever............................. ad infinitum

Your reply is basically a fancy way of shifting FOCUS (elsewhere), when it is a valid FACT of what Salvation provides. Of course there's much more to it, but that IS a big part of it.

[holo]

Holo, if I may ask, what do you say when someone who isn`t a believer asks why Jesus died? Or when you bring up the topic of Jesus dying on the cross..."I deemed to know nothing amongst you corinthians other than Christ and Him crucified," (the Apostle Paul).

Mark :)I don't have one set answer for anyone who may ask such a question. But I believe Jesus died in our place, to reconcile man and God, basically. There are, of course, deep truths and nuances to it that I don't even realize, so I don't want to be too categorical.

[holo]

By your admission, HE DID SAVE YOU FROM HELL. So, speaking of hell in witnessing is appropriate, true & correct.

The issue isn't what ELSE he saved you from here - if one IS saved, THEY ARE RESCUED from that place. Period. & believe me, once we step into eternity after this life, we'll be much more thankful that we escaped that place than right now when we cannot fathom it in full.
I value that fact significantly! & will value it later while time is crawling - forever & forever & forever & forever & forever & forever & forever............................. ad infinitum

Your reply is basically a fancy way of shifting FOCUS (elsewhere), when it is a valid FACT of what Salvation provides. Of course there's much more to it, but that IS a big part of it.Yes, of course eternity is a big part of it. But it's a fact that for me and many others who came to Jesus ONLY because of hell, life with him wasn't any good. Because it was based on fear.

You would never love another person because the alternative was punishment. It doesn't work with people, and it won't work with Jesus.

By all means, if you have to resort to hell when evangelizing to some people, do it. But it shouldn't be the norm, since it tends to be more destructive and scary than constructive and motivational.

[rosiecotton]

Basically, I agree with what Holo is saying.
The things is, we tend to look at this from a Christian viewpoint....we need to save these people from hell!
But, many nonbelievers don't even believe hell exists. We need to show them how they can have a better life NOW, on earth. Show them how Jesus can give them that better life, what does He have to offer them NOW, in this life on earth.
Sure, hell is a reality--and it shouldn't be ignored. But, again, many nonbelievers don't really believe in it, or don't believe it's a horrible place (how many people have we heard say that they'll have plenty of company in hell and will have a big party once they get there?)
Show them how God can change their life now and what He has to offer them....I believe that would be more affective than scaring them into believing in God.

[Nadiine]

Basically, I agree with what Holo is saying.
The things is, we tend to look at this from a Christian viewpoint....we need to save these people from hell!
But, many nonbelievers don't even believe hell exists. We need to show them how they can have a better life NOW, on earth. Show them how Jesus can give them that better life, what does He have to offer them NOW, in this life on earth.
Sure, hell is a reality--and it shouldn't be ignored. But, again, many nonbelievers don't really believe in it, or don't believe it's a horrible place (how many people have we heard say that they'll have plenty of company in hell and will have a big party once they get there?)
Show them how God can change their life now and what He has to offer them....I believe that would be more affective than scaring them into believing in God.

Well many people don't agree GOD exists, or that they NEED God etc. etc.

We don't witness to people according to what they DON'T believe - we witness the truth in it's fullness.

It's not too hard to figure out that the best approach to witnessing isn't walking up to a total stranger & whack them on the head w/ a bible in a tyrade about them going to hell.

Let's use some common sense here. BALANCED TRUTH.

And many people DO beleive hell exists - they simply believe it's for all those "OTHER BAD PEOPLE" - NOT THEMSELVES if they merely reject Christ.

JESUS taught it, and it should continue to be taught as part of the gospel - it just doesnt' need to be obsessed on & used as an attack method.

I see the LOVE of Jesus preached by everyone; THAT DOESN'T BRING THEM ALL IN EITHER. Frankly, most people will reject ANY doctrine you share with them.
The TRUTH of God is offensive to those in darkness.

[MarkEvan]

I don't have one set answer for anyone who may ask such a question. But I believe Jesus died in our place, to reconcile man and God, basically. There are, of course, deep truths and nuances to it that I don't even realize, so I don't want to be too categorical.



Its good that you don`t have a set answer, for the questions reguarding the gospel, many people ask different things and the same aproach is not always benaficial.
Yep Jesus did die to reconcile man to God, but He had to die because of Gods justice which requires that the wicked (unrepentant sinners) are punished, this punishment the scriptures tell us is eternal separation from the LORD (hell). The good news is that God himself provided a way for His justice to be met without our punishment, because that punishment was laid on Jesus..."all we like sheep have gone astray, we have all turned to our own way and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all".....this is all part of the good news...if I may be so bold...a vital part, it is what Jesus set us free from, death, that is spiritual death, hell.

Do you know the hymn abide with me? In it there is a line that echoes the scriptures,

I fear no foe, with thee at hand to bless; ills have no weight and tears no bitterness. Where is deaths sting? Where, grave, thy victory? I triumph still if thou abide with me.


This for me is the good news, death no longer has the sting or grave the victory because Christ has paid the price and we can triumph through Him.

Mark:)

[calidog]

I used to be one of those who came to Christ for the sole reason of fear of hell.


Me too. I had to think back after reading this to discover that the fear of spending eternity in hell put me on my knees at the cross.

The fear, for me, has pretty much passed. I'm convinced in my own mind that Jesus is'nt going to allow me to stumble into hell.

I don't think we can come up with an effectice evangelism tool or system by brainstorming, but I could be wrong, and I probably will continue to try to find the effective way(s) of convinving some to recieve Christ.

Some of us (me) are pretty stubborn and it may take many years before one caves in to Christ. How many times have we heard the Gospel before we believed?

[Nadiine]

Me too. I had to think back after reading this to discover that the fear of spending eternity in hell put me on my knees at the cross.

The fear, for me, has pretty much passed. I'm convinced in my own mind that Jesus is'nt going to allow me to stumble into hell.


I came to the Lord the same way - I knew the type of life I was living & it was conviction of that sin that caused me to be afraid of eternity in hell.
I've literally sat & tried to imagine what Eternity would be like & how long it is.
Imagine being in a horrible place separated from God for all time.
That SCARES ME.

I know we dislike it, BUT IT'S TRUE. I'm like you too, that fear is pretty much passed since I am His child & don't have to live in guilt.

The bible says too that we're to work out our own salvation with FEAR & TREMBLING.
It's a severe 'thing to fall into the hands of the Living God'.

BOTH witnessing medthods work on different types of people. I was extremely rebellious & hardcore - so it took more than fluffy love messages to break thru my hardened exterior.

We should NEVER throw out a message just becuz WE don't operate that way or like it.

*one last note, to Rosiecotton - I DO agree with you in one way, that, we don't ALWAYS have to introduce HELL into EVERY single witness we give.
I'm not "demanding" that EVERY time we give witness of our faith, that we jam 'hell' into it.
I'm very aware that w/ some people that is NOT a great method - eventually if you witness enough to them, they DO ask about it, then we can talk about that w/ them IN LOVE.
It's not appropriate in EVERY situation.

So I did want to clarify that! :angel:

[holo]

I agree with Nadiine.

[rosiecotton]

I came to the Lord the same way - I knew the type of life I was living & it was conviction of that sin that caused me to be afraid of eternity in hell.
I've literally sat & tried to imagine what Eternity would be like & how long it is.
Imagine being in a horrible place separated from God for all time.
That SCARES ME.

I know we dislike it, BUT IT'S TRUE. I'm like you too, that fear is pretty much passed since I am His child & don't have to live in guilt.

The bible says too that we're to work out our own salvation with FEAR & TREMBLING.
It's a severe 'thing to fall into the hands of the Living God'.

BOTH witnessing medthods work on different types of people. I was extremely rebellious & hardcore - so it took more than fluffy love messages to break thru my hardened exterior.

We should NEVER throw out a message just becuz WE don't operate that way or like it.

*one last note, to Rosiecotton - I DO agree with you in one way, that, we don't ALWAYS have to introduce HELL into EVERY single witness we give.
I'm not "demanding" that EVERY time we give witness of our faith, that we jam 'hell' into it.
I'm very aware that w/ some people that is NOT a great method - eventually if you witness enough to them, they DO ask about it, then we can talk about that w/ them IN LOVE.
It's not appropriate in EVERY situation.

So I did want to clarify that! :angel:

Thanks for clarifying! It's not that I don't think we should never talk about hell, but that I don't think it's always the 'best' way to witness to someone.

[Nadiine]

Thanks for clarifying! It's not that I don't think we should never talk about hell, but that I don't think it's always the 'best' way to witness to someone.

I'm glad that was cleared up Rosie :hug:
Ya, after I posted that, I got to thinking back on when I witnessed to other strangers & friends of mine & it dawned on me that I didn't mean we HAD to bring up Hell every single time or instance, as if it's part of the routine. And that that's what my post sounded like. :eek: lol
My error for not correcting that earlier.

It's wierd because I know what I mean when I type it, but I forget that everybody else doesn't know where I'm coming from.

Sorry for any confusion about that.
God bless you!! :hug:

[Nadiine]

I agree with Nadiine.
At last you & I found some common ground someplace :clap:

(let me savor the moment - however short it might be) LOL :hug: :P

[linssue55]

True, but you don't make people believe by threathening them with hell.

For your info., I am not the one threatening, I do not tell this to unbelievers, UNLESS they ask, or they speak of great hatred toward God. "GOD" has proclaimed THIS for unbelievers, NOT I, and He WILL carry out his warning if they do not do as "HE" say's.


"Those that do not believe, the "WRATH" of God abideth on him."