Wasn't Jesus suppose to be from davids lineage

[tonysma]

Do not get me wrong...I have just been wondering...maybe satan is whispering in my ear...Wasn't Jesus suppose to be from Davids lineage...He cannot be if he was created by God...Joseph was Davids lineage not Mary's...Don't make me feel bad about wondering this...I feel like I am talking against God and Jesus, when I am really trying to understand this....

[Scorcher505]

Still comes from that tribe of Israelites

[- DRA -]

Do not get me wrong...I have just been wondering...maybe satan is whispering in my ear...Wasn't Jesus suppose to be from Davids lineage...He cannot be if he was created by God...Joseph was Davids lineage not Mary's...Don't make me feel bad about wondering this...I feel like I am talking against God and Jesus, when I am really trying to understand this....

The gospel of Matthew opens with two thoughts:
1.) Jesus is the son of David
2.) Jesus is the son of Abraham
The point? He is the Messiah ... the annointed one -- the king of Israel promised in the O.T. that would descend from David. See 2 Samuel 7:12-17. And, Jesus was the "seed" or "blessing" promised to Abraham that would bless all families of the earth. See Genesis 12:3 and Acts 3:25-26.

My understanding is that Matthew's lineage is the legal lineage that comes through Joseph, and that Luke's lineage is the bloodline through Mary.

See also Acts 2:22-36 and Romans 1:3-4.

[MaidforHim]

Do not get me wrong...I have just been wondering...maybe satan is whispering in my ear...Wasn't Jesus suppose to be from Davids lineage...He cannot be if he was created by God...Joseph was Davids lineage not Mary's...Don't make me feel bad about wondering this...I feel like I am talking against God and Jesus, when I am really trying to understand this....

Editing should have read more first :-)

Mary is also from the line of David. I saw her lineage laid out once. Yes, it was from the book of Luke.

[ivory]

Jesus was not in the bloodlines of King David through
Joseph as described in Mathew 1. Why because God was His
Father spiritually and literally and NOT Joseph. Joseph was
not Jesus's father. And therefore you can't trace Jesus'
bloodlines back thru Joseph's famous lineage. For although
Jesus was from the very beginning and always present with
the Father and Mother (Holy Spirit (http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/FeminineHolySpirit.html)) when he took on His earthly form, it was the virgin Mary that was impregnated by the Lord himself, or as is said "the Holy Ghost covershadowed her. So Jesus' lineage is through Mary and not Josaeph. Mind you, Mary the engaged wife to be of Joseph could have been in the lineage of David, because King David of Old had many wives and many children just as his son, Solomon had. So from this side, Jesuswas surely an offspring of David.

But our Messiah was Not the Son of David as people called Him, but the Son of God as Peter realized by faith. JESUS (http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Jesus.html) always existed, for as He said,' before Abraham was, I am'. Jesus was the Creator and not a creation or a mere man, like King David of old.

[Telrunya]

Jesus was not in the bloodlines of King David through
Joseph as described in Mathew 1. Why because God was His
Father spiritually and literally and NOT Joseph. Joseph was
not Jesus's father. And therefore you can't trace Jesus'
bloodlines back thru Joseph's famous lineage. For although
Jesus was from the very beginning and always present with
the Father and Mother (Holy Spirit (http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/FeminineHolySpirit.html)) when he took on His earthly form, it was the virgin Mary that was impregnated by the Lord himself, or as is said "the Holy Ghost covershadowed her. So Jesus' lineage is through Mary and not Josaeph. Mind you, Mary the engaged wife to be of Joseph could have been in the lineage of David, because King David of Old had many wives and many children just as his son, Solomon had. So from this side, Jesuswas surely an offspring of David.

But our Messiah was Not the Son of David as people called Him, but the Son of God as Peter realized by faith. JESUS (http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Jesus.html) always existed, for as He said,' before Abraham was, I am'. Jesus was the Creator and not a creation or a mere man, like King David of old.
The Holy Spirit is not "Mother".

Edit on 12/29/06 for scripture clairifacation purposes:

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (emphasis mine)

[Nadiine]

The Holy Spirit is not "Mother".
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Nadiine]

I know 2 things for sure -
1) Jesus IS from David's lineage because the Bible says He is. (yes, that's my bias - but I base that on the rest of the Bible's reliability elsewhere).
I also contend that since the NT apostles affirmed that Jesus was from the davidic line that they had no problem with it as fact while with Him & no one else raised objection to it that we see in scripture.

2) Top Christian scholars have searched this out intensly and are fully satisfied of the evidence.

Other than that, here's a link to wikipedia that explains a few views:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davidic_line

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/davids_seed.htm
(this has lots of detail in answer to a skeptic - I know nothing of this site other than its detailed info)

[prophecystudent]

I have no time to go find the resource, but I believe that under Jewish law the lineage comes through the mother. And yes, Mary was from the line of David. Therefore, the bible is correct that Christ came from the house of David.

Fred

[BGMCFAR]

What difference does it make were Jesus came from ? the important thing is he came to this earth and lived and died so we could be free JESUS SHED HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD SO YOU AND I COULD BE WITH HIM IN PARADISE THATS WHATS IMPORTANT AND COMMAND SATAN TO DEPART FROM YOUR PRESENTS IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.Praise the Lord :amen:

[Nadiine]

What difference does it make were Jesus came from ? the important thing is he came to this earth and lived and died so we could be free JESUS SHED HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD SO YOU AND I COULD BE WITH HIM IN PARADISE THATS WHATS IMPORTANT AND COMMAND SATAN TO DEPART FROM YOUR PRESENTS IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Well, I know what you're saying, but it does matter where Jesus came from - only because the Bible has made it a key point of prophecy.
If the Bible didn't emphasize His davidic line as it does, it wouldn't be important.
It becomes important because it does.

& as my prev. post had noted, those who walked with Jesus WROTE of His Davidic lineage, obviously, if there was some huge discrepancy, they'de of questioned it and LEFT HIM if it proved false!

They had no problem with it - why should we?

[AllTalkNoAction]

Matt. 1 shews that Joseph was of the cursed lineage of Jeconiah ("Coniah"):-

[28] Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

Therefore Jesus must have been of a virgin birth.

Mary was of a different lineage of David, a lowly branch - through Nathan rather than Solomon.

God said this throne would remain until Jesus returns to lake it up when he comes to rule the earth.
This throne has not been in Jerusalem since the House of Judah were taken captive in the 7th Century BC.

It is now found, along with the gathered tribes in Britian (Heb. Berith-ain: covenant land). Queen Elizabeth II is the current monarch.
http://www.revivalfellowship.org/British_Israel.asp

[Nadiine]

Matt. 1 shews that Joseph was of the cursed lineage of Jeconiah ("Coniah"):-

[28] Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

Therefore Jesus must have been of a virgin birth.


must have been? :swoon: :swoon: :help:

[ivory]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The Holy Spirit is Mother, Father, Sister, Brother, (GOD)
He/She is our everything. If not! Who is the Holy Spirit?

[calidog]

OP has a valid question. I wish we all could answer it.

[Wisdom's Child]

Jesus may not have been physically his, but none the less, Joseph did in fact claim Jesus as one of his own, and thus legitimized Jesus birth.
Being that Joseph and family had to travel to Bethlehem, the "City of David" for the Roman census further legitimizes his claim.

[Scorcher505]

Jesus was of David's line because the Bible says he was...

[Telrunya]

The Holy Spirit is Mother, Father, Sister, Brother, (GOD)
He/She is our everything. If not! Who is the Holy Spirit?
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (emphasis mine)

Scripture NEVER refers to God in female terms. There is no she there at all. Every reference to God is in the nuetral or masculine sense. The Holy Spirit is most often refered too in force of nature terms such as water or wind. When you start asserting something that is definately not in scripture, such as assigning a female gender to the God head, you are flirting with disaster.


OP has a valid question. I wish we all could answer it.


I think it has ben answered. Jesus' legal liniage (Joseph) AND His human blood liniage (Mary) are both Davidic.

[Nadiine]

The Holy Spirit is Mother, Father, Sister, Brother, (GOD)
He/She is our everything. If not! Who is the Holy Spirit?

Where in the Bible is SHE used of the Holy Spirit?
Where in the Bible is MOTHER used of the Holy Spirit?

GOD IS SPIRIT. the Spirit is GOD.

1 Cor 12:11 "HE"
& the verse used by Telrunya below calls the Spirit, "He"... not She or Mother.

Please adhere to scripture rather than what man might wrongly teach.

[calidog]

I think it has ben answered. Jesus' legal liniage (Joseph) AND His human blood liniage (Mary) are both Davidic.[/quote]

I meant we (the body) all christians.

[ivory]

Where in the Bible is SHE used of the Holy Spirit?
Where in the Bible is MOTHER used of the Holy Spirit?

GOD IS SPIRIT. the Spirit is GOD.

1 Cor 12:11 "HE"
& the verse used by Telrunya below calls the Spirit, "He"... not She or Mother.

Please adhere to scripture rather than what man might wrongly teach.
Would you say that "Wisdom" is the Holy Spirit?

[Telrunya]

Would you say that "Wisdom" is the Holy Spirit?
No. You are obviously refering to the Psalms and references of wisdom as a woman. That is a prime example of biblical allagory and is not literal. The Holy Spirit is not wisdom. The Holy Spirit is comforter and councilor. No where does the Bible refer to the Holy Spirit as wisdom or as a female. Also the Holy Spirit was not given to us until after Jesus. The Psalms were written long before Jesus' time

[Nadiine]

Would you say that "Wisdom" is the Holy Spirit?

No, I wouldn't. Because the Spirit is GOD, and has a MIND, WILL AND EMOTIONS.
He is NOT a "thing" or "she/mother", but a person of the Trinity.

I think you're using the Proverbs [8] poetry to arrive at this. Wisdom is personified and relaying the divine origin of wisdom in ch. 8 & 9. But when you read 9:10, it says "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" and the knowledge of the Holy one is understanding." If the Holy Spirit is "wisdom", then one of the other of the Trinity have to be "understanding" there.
8:22 "The Lord posessed me at the beginning of His way" That doesn't make sense if it's the Spirit because God doesn't "posess" Himself. :confused:
Verse 12 becomes a problem as well: "I wisdom dwell with prudence". If the Spirit is "wisdom" then who is "Prudence"?

Wisdom is of God and God used wisdom in Creating and His principles are all Wise... it originates with God. It dwelled with God from the beginning. He possesses it and is the AUTHOR of it.

[cavell]

Matt. 1 shews that Joseph was of the cursed lineage of Jeconiah ("Coniah"):-

[28] Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

Therefore Jesus must have been of a virgin birth.

Mary was of a different lineage of David, a lowly branch - through Nathan rather than Solomon.

God said this throne would remain until Jesus returns to lake it up when he comes to rule the earth.
This throne has not been in Jerusalem since the House of Judah were taken captive in the 7th Century BC.

It is now found, along with the gathered tribes in Britian (Heb. Berith-ain: covenant land). Queen Elizabeth II is the current monarch.
http://www.revivalfellowship.org/British_Israel.asp
Because king Jeconiah was so bad God put a stop to the (seed) or (bloodline) which could inherit King Davids throne. In essence the geneology of Matthew - Birthright to the Messiah being King was cut off at Jeconiah.
There had to be another way for the true bloodline to be established, and that was through the bloodline of Mary all the way back to King David. This is why Mary had to be a virgin when she bore Jesus. If she would have become pregnant by Joseph, the kingship bloodline (seed) was already stopped at Jeconiah.
Now Jesus being the son of Joseph (not a natural son, but an adopted son), He then received the Birthright to King Davids Throne. And Jesus being from Marys lineage, had a true bloodline back to King David. This was the only way to match the Birthright to the Throne to a true bloodline to the Throne. And the Holy Spirit conceived in Mary the Diety of the Godhead. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt amoung us.

[ivory]

No, I wouldn't. Because the Spirit is GOD, and has a MIND, WILL AND EMOTIONS.
He is NOT a "thing" or "she/mother", but a person of the Trinity.

I think you're using the Proverbs [8] poetry to arrive at this. Wisdom is personified and relaying the divine origin of wisdom in ch. 8 & 9. But when you read 9:10, it says "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" and the knowledge of the Holy one is understanding." If the Holy Spirit is "wisdom", then one of the other of the Trinity have to be "understanding" there.
8:22 "The Lord posessed me at the beginning of His way" That doesn't make sense if it's the Spirit because God doesn't "posess" Himself. :confused:
Verse 12 becomes a problem as well: "I wisdom dwell with prudence". If the Spirit is "wisdom" then who is "Prudence"?

Wisdom is of God and God used wisdom in Creating and His principles are all Wise... it originates with God. It dwelled with God from the beginning. He possesses it and is the AUTHOR of it.
And who would you say "Truth" was?

[calidog]

thanx cavell , pasted those into my notes also

[AllTalkNoAction]

must have been? :swoon: :swoon: :help:Do you understand why Jesus can't have been of Joseph, so Mary must have been a Virgin for the scripture to be fulfilled ?

[- DRA -]

Matt. 1 shews that Joseph was of the cursed lineage of Jeconiah ("Coniah"):-

[28] Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

Jesus was indeed of the lineage of Coniah (or Jeconiah). However, take a closer look at the last part of Jeremiah 22:30 -- "... For none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah" (NKJV). The prophesy doesn't say that someone from Coniah's lineage can't sit on David's throne. Specifically it says that no one from Coniah's lineage can sit on David's throne and prosper in Judah. I suspect you have some misunderstandings about Jesus' kingdom.

Therefore Jesus must have been of a virgin birth.

Jesus was to be born of a virgin according to Isaiah 7:14 -- not Jeremiah 22.

Mary was of a different lineage of David, a lowly branch - through Nathan rather than Solomon.

That is the idea if one accepts the lineage given in Luke 3 as the bloodline through Mary.

God said this throne would remain until Jesus returns to lake it up when he comes to rule the earth.
This throne has not been in Jerusalem since the House of Judah were taken captive in the 7th Century BC.

It is now found, along with the gathered tribes in Britian (Heb. Berith-ain: covenant land). Queen Elizabeth II is the current monarch.
http://www.revivalfellowship.org/British_Israel.asp

Uh ... you kinda lost me on this one. Consider these points the Bible teaches about the Messiah and His kingdom ...

1.) Both John the Baptist and Jesus taught that the kingdom was at hand (or near) in Matt. 3:2; 4:17.

2.) How near? Jesus taught that some of those listening to him who would not die before his kingdom was established (Mark 9:1).

3.) Jesus taught that His kingdom was spiritual, not physical (John 18:36).

4.) After the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles in Acts 2:1-4, the apostle Peter preached a sermon that declared Jesus to be both Lord and Christ (the annointed one -- the Messiah of the Old Testament). In that sermon, Jesus was declared to be the fulfillment of Psalm 16:10 -- not David (see verses 24-31). Note verse 30 in particular. It alludes to the promise God made to David in 2 Sam. 7:12-17. In essence, Peter (under direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit) is declaring that Jesus was resurrected and is now sitting on David's throne. The proof? The Holy Spirit that He sent upon the apostles earlier in chapter 2 (see verses 32-35). Consequently, once again, Peter concludes by declaring that Jesus is both Lord (ruler) and Christ (the Messiah of the O.T.). See verse 36.

5.) Later, while in prison in Rome, the apostle Paul wrote that the kingdom was established and people were being delivered from darkness (sin) and transferred into the kingdom. See Col. 1:13.

6.) The apostle John was in the kingdom (see Rev. 1:9).

[Junco]

The gospel of Matthew opens with two thoughts:
1.) Jesus is the son of David
2.) Jesus is the son of Abraham
The point? He is the Messiah ... the annointed one -- the king of Israel promised in the O.T. that would descend from David. See 2 Samuel 7:12-17. And, Jesus was the "seed" or "blessing" promised to Abraham that would bless all families of the earth. See Genesis 12:3 and Acts 3:25-26.

My understanding is that Matthew's lineage is the legal lineage that comes through Joseph, and that Luke's lineage is the bloodline through Mary.

See also Acts 2:22-36 and Romans 1:3-4.
I believe this is correct. Jesus' Mother was also of the House of David.

[- DRA -]

I believe this is correct. Jesus' Mother was also of the House of David.

:wave:

If Matthew's lineage is indeed the legal line (through Joseph), and Luke's lineage through the bloodline (through Mary), then Jesus is truly the Son of David (Matt. 1:1) with no dispute from the Jews.

[linssue55]

Do not get me wrong...I have just been wondering...maybe satan is whispering in my ear...Wasn't Jesus suppose to be from Davids lineage...He cannot be if he was created by God...Joseph was Davids lineage not Mary's...Don't make me feel bad about wondering this...I feel like I am talking against God and Jesus, when I am really trying to understand this....

Mary was from the line of David, which is from the line of Abraham. Christ IS from the Line of David, through the physical birth of Mary. God the Holy Spirit was needed to impute sinlessness into the unborn child of Christ (through Mary), for Christ was born un-blemished, and perfect.

[AllTalkNoAction]

. . .for Christ was born un-blemished, and perfect. Many people are born like this, naturally Jesus was no different, he needed to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to be super-natural.

[- DRA -]

God the Holy Spirit was needed to impute sinlessness into the unborn child of Christ (through Mary), for Christ was born un-blemished, and perfect.

It seems as if you believe in inherited sin. And, that by some miracle, Jesus was born without inheriting sin. Is this true?

[twistedsketch]

Mary was from the line of David, which is from the line of Abraham. Christ IS from the Line of David, through the physical birth of Mary. God the Holy Spirit was needed to impute sinlessness into the unborn child of Christ (through Mary), for Christ was born un-blemished, and perfect.
He didn't need Mary for that, since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the first place. He needed Mary for her lineage, her virginity, and her faith. It would not have been that difficult to find another virgin from the line of David had she been uncooperative.

[Nadiine]

Many people are born like this, naturally Jesus was no different, he needed to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to be super-natural.
:confused:

Jesus is GOD - how is He not supernatural?
He merely BECAME flesh for His mission to die as a sinless sacrifice for man's sin - paying our ransom.

[ivory]

:confused:

Jesus is GOD - how is He not supernatural?
He merely BECAME flesh for His mission to die as a sinless sacrifice for man's sin - paying our ransom.
Amen! Jesus is God!

[AllTalkNoAction]

There was nothing special about his flesh or his genes, he didn't inherit righteousness.

[Nadiine]

There was nothing special about his flesh or his genes, he didn't inherit righteousness.

HE WAS RIGHTEOUSNESS - incarnate.

[linssue55]

He didn't need Mary for that, since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the first place. He needed Mary for her lineage, her virginity, and her faith. It would not have been that difficult to find another virgin from the line of David had she been uncooperative.I am quite aware of that, BUT that was not the question that was asked.

[linssue55]

HE WAS RIGHTEOUSNESS - incarnate.He "IS" righteous, He didn't need Mary for that, for He has always been righteous.

[twistedsketch]

I am quite aware of that, BUT that was not the question that was asked.

But it was something you said.

[linssue55]

But it was something you said.So?? :scratch:

[linssue55]

It seems as if you believe in inherited sin. And, that by some miracle, Jesus was born without inheriting sin. Is this true?

Yes. The old sin nature is imputed by the man (Adam) at physical birth. So by God the Holy Spirit empregnating Mary, there was no OSN passed on to the perfect Christ child.

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -
It seems as if you believe in inherited sin. And, that by some miracle, Jesus was born without inheriting sin. Is this true?

Yes. The old sin nature is imputed by the man (Adam) at physical birth. So by God the Holy Spirit empregnating Mary, there was no OSN passed on to the perfect Christ child.

I find that sin is not hereditary. See Ezekial 18:1-22. Therefore, we do not inherit Adam's sin, but each of us is responsibile for our own actions (2 Corinthians 5:10).

I suspect you are misunderstanding Romans 5. We all suffer the consequences of sin -- the loss of access to the tree of life (i.e. Genesis 3:23-24), but it doesn't mean that we all inherit sin from him. Please consider the contrast between Adam and Christ in Romans 5. If we inherit sin from Adam, then we inherit life from Christ (see verse 18). Do you believe eternal life is hereditary? If so, what the lineage?