Spiritual Gifts

[simplyg123]

Speaking in Tounges, Healing, miracles

i recently heard someone say the bible takes these gifts away when the new testament was completed, doe anyone have infor on this?

[HisSparrow]

Spiritual gifts are alive and well

Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.1 Cor 14:12

[simplyg123]

so how do some get the idea they would be taken away?

[jsimms615]

so how do some get the idea they would be taken away?
I know some people who believe the gifts of tongues doesn't exist any more. I think they feel that way because so much of what you see today isn't biblical when it comes to tongues. If you speak in the church your suppose to speak to edify the body, not just speak and nobody interpret it.
I don't know of any scripture that says those gifts go away after the first century. I think some people are just uncomfortable with some gifts and don't want to acknowledge that they exist.
That's just my opinion.
J

[ivory]

Tongues,
The Book of Act

For God is not the Author of confusion, but of peace as in all
churches of the Saints. (1 Cor 14: 33-35)

(1) When Galilean disciples spoke the devout men from these
16 nations clearly understood what was said. (Acts 2:11) There is no
evidence that the 3000 who were saved spoke in tongues then or ever.

(2) The "cloven tongues like as of fire" that sat upon each of them
was a manifestation of the Holy Spirit that they would now speak the words
of God with authority and power.

(3) Uncertain sounds such as tongues cause confusion, for God
is not the author of confusion, but of peace. (1 Cor 14:7-17 and 33-35)

(4) Five words understood are of more value than 10,000 in an
unknown tongue. (1 Cor 14:19)

(5) Gibberish turns unbelievers away from the truth. (1 Cor 14:23)

(6) There was a limit of three placed by the Holy Spirit that were permitted
to speak in tongues in any service, these had to speak one at a time. (1Cor 14:27)

(7) An interpreter must be present, if not present, the speaker in tongues must
remain silent. (1Cor 14:38)

(8) The modern day tongues are not following these guidelines.

My Personal Opinion,
- The word of God is to be our guide in all our faith and practice, tongues is being
emphasized over the gospel message.
- Why make uncertain sounds that cause confusion?
- Why violate the scriptures and turn unbelievers away with gibberish
which is forbidden by scripture? (1Cor 14:23)
- Why violate the scriptures and allow and encourage more than three to speak
at a time, when scripture plainly say not too? (1Cor 14:27)
- Why violate the scriptures and allow someone to speak in tongues when no interpreter
is present? (1 Cor 14:28)
- Why ignore the bible rules for speaking in tongues, especially if what you have is real?
- Why become involved in an activity which takes away the ears of people from the
Gospel of Christ?
- Tongues are only mentioned in one of Paul's 14 Epistles, there is no evidence that any other New Testament church spoke in tongues.
- Why submit to an unscriptural practice which glorifies man and not Jesus Christ our Lord?
- Why let anyone sell you on an experience which they can not support from the Bible?
- We should not pattern ourselves after Corinthians, they was ignorant, confused, rebellious, lazy, and misused gifts.
It would not be wise for any church to pattern itself after them.

- The Tongues in Isaiah 28:11 was the Assyriam language to warn the prophets that they would be taken into captivity.
- Paul explains tongues to the Corinthian because they didn't understand scriptural tongues and were misusing them.
- Paul told them not everyone had every gift, and yet they were trying to exercise every gift, it was mass confusion.

Ivory

[whatfor]

I thought tongues was a heavenly language used more in prayer to God than preaching to a group.
I recently had an experience where I was praying alone and part of the experience was a back and shoulder injury were healed.
While I was praying I felt that I might be able to speak in tongues but wasn't sure if it was or I was just making it up in my mind.
I went with it anyway as I was sure God would understand if I was mistaken or not anyway.

How can you tell for real if you are just making it up in your mind or it's real.?

[CrazyforYeshua]

Tongues,
The Book of Act

For God is not the Author of confusion, but of peace as in all
churches of the Saints. (1 Cor 14: 33-35)

(1) When Galilean disciples spoke the devout men from these
16 nations clearly understood what was said. (Acts 2:11) There is no
evidence that the 3000 who were saved spoke in tongues then or ever.

(2) The "cloven tongues like as of fire" that sat upon each of them
was a manifestation of the Holy Spirit that they would now speak the words
of God with authority and power.

(3) Uncertain sounds such as tongues cause confusion, for God
is not the author of confusion, but of peace. (1 Cor 14:7-17 and 33-35)

(4) Five words understood are of more value than 10,000 in an
unknown tongue. (1 Cor 14:19)

(5) Gibberish turns unbelievers away from the truth. (1 Cor 14:23)

(6) There was a limit of three placed by the Holy Spirit that were permitted
to speak in tongues in any service, these had to speak one at a time. (1Cor 14:27)

(7) An interpreter must be present, if not present, the speaker in tongues must
remain silent. (1Cor 14:38)

(8) The modern day tongues are not following these guidelines.

My Personal Opinion,
- The word of God is to be our guide in all our faith and practice, tongues is being
emphasized over the gospel message.
- Why make uncertain sounds that cause confusion?
- Why violate the scriptures and turn unbelievers away with gibberish
which is forbidden by scripture? (1Cor 14:23)
- Why violate the scriptures and allow and encourage more than three to speak
at a time, when scripture plainly say not too? (1Cor 14:27)
- Why violate the scriptures and allow someone to speak in tongues when no interpreter
is present? (1 Cor 14:28)
- Why ignore the bible rules for speaking in tongues, especially if what you have is real?
- Why become involved in an activity which takes away the ears of people from the
Gospel of Christ?
- Tongues are only mentioned in one of Paul's 14 Epistles, there is no evidence that any other New Testament church spoke in tongues.
- Why submit to an unscriptural practice which glorifies man and not Jesus Christ our Lord?
- Why let anyone sell you on an experience which they can not support from the Bible?
- We should not pattern ourselves after Corinthians, they was ignorant, confused, rebellious, lazy, and misused gifts.
It would not be wise for any church to pattern itself after them.

- The Tongues in Isaiah 28:11 was the Assyriam language to warn the prophets that they would be taken into captivity.
- Paul explains tongues to the Corinthian because they didn't understand scriptural tongues and were misusing them.
- Paul told them not everyone had every gift, and yet they were trying to exercise every gift, it was mass confusion.

Ivory


How do you know the church doesn't follow these guidelines? Our leadership makes sure scriptural guidelines are followed when it comes to Spiritual gifts. If something goes outside of what scripture says to do, one of the elders or the Pastor will take that person aside after service, and speak with them.
As far as why people believe they are not for today, this scripture is taken out of context

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of theseis charity.


This is taken to mean scripture-as in when the Bible was finished. But, look what perfect means

τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.


In the Message



1Co 13:8 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit.
1Co 13:9 We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete.
1Co 13:10 But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

1Co 13:11 When I was an infant at my mother's breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.
1Co 13:12 We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!
1Co 13:13 But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

Paul is talking about how gifts are partial, love is complete, they are temporal, love is eternal.

[plmarquette]

some say so because of what is alluded to in the epislte to the corinthians in 1 or 2 cor chapt 13 ... hear in part , see in part , but then face to face ... the context is , that we will not need the 9 gifts in heaven or after Jesus returns for us ... but until that happens we need the gifts of the spirit to hold onto what Jesus purchased for us by his blood ...

[simplyg123]

some say so because of what is alluded to in the epislte to the corinthians in 1 or 2 cor chapt 13 ... hear in part , see in part , but then face to face ... the context is , that we will not need the 9 gifts in heaven or after Jesus returns for us ... but until that happens we need the gifts of the spirit to hold onto what Jesus purchased for us by his blood ...
What about prophets, those that speak the future, and Gods will, are they here, do they exist today? This seems to me like a very important gift, yet i do not hear of it. Is it kept secret? Or do they not exist?

[Telrunya]

What about prophets, those that speak the future, and Gods will, are they here, do they exist today? This seems to me like a very important gift, yet i do not hear of it. Is it kept secret? Or do they not exist?
The time of the great prophets ended with the coming of Jesus. That being said the gift of prophecy still exists and like many spiritual gifts is far underused. Some people fear the visions they get and ignore them others are pshaw'd while still others are ostrisized. Very few phophets are give the oppertunity to excersize their gifts in their congregations.

[simplyg123]

The time of the great prophets ended with the coming of Jesus. That being said the gift of prophecy still exists and like many spiritual gifts is far underused. Some people fear the visions they get and ignore them others are pshaw'd while still others are ostrisized. Very few phophets are give the oppertunity to excersize their gifts in their congregations.
would you have to be christian to have the gift, or could you be born with the gift to later become a christian, or can you not be a christian at all and have the gift of prophecy

[Telrunya]

would you have to be christian to have the gift, or could you be born with the gift to later become a christian, or can you not be a christian at all and have the gift of prophecy
Spiritual gifts are given by the Holy Spirit. You cannot have Gifts of the Spirit without having the Spirit in you.

[simplyg123]

Do you think Satan offers such gifts?

[Scorcher505]

I do not think that the Bible takes those away at all. I have heard of people having/doing all of those

[Telrunya]

Do you think Satan offers such gifts?
Satan is the great deciever, often appearing as an angel of light. Ofcourse he tries to mimic and pervert. Scripture speaks of false prophets many times and provides instructions on testing the prophet.

[Rejoice37]

The spiritual gifts are to edify the body of Christ. I attended a church for about a year or two where the gift of tongues was used very often. To be honest, I did not find it to be edifying at all because it turned into "those who had the gift of tongues" and those that didn't felt like we were missing something. Gifts should edify not divide. I have recently begun attending a new church and although I read on their website that they too believe in speaking in tongues, those who have this gift I have noticed are very quiet about it and I notice them speaking in tongues at their seat quietly. Not aloud as to confuse anyone. I have not felt like a step child because I do not speak in tongues. It's been very refreshing. I was told that Joyce Meyers has the gift of tongues but does not do it publically, that she does it in her personal prayer time.

[BGMCFAR]

I disagree John the Beloved or John the disciple of Jesus was a Great Prophet and so was Paul why was the book of Revelation written and all the books and letters written by Paul to prophecy the what was to come in future.Do you think we would not know about the last even't of this earth's histiry if it wasn't for these prophets :) For TELRUNYA

[AllTalkNoAction]

Speaking in Tounges, Healing, miracles
i recently heard someone say the bible takes these gifts away when the new testament was completed, doe anyone have infor on this?1 Cor. 13v8-12 talks about 2 time periods, "now" and "then".

"Then", God's people shall know even as they known !
They shall see Him face to face !

"Now" we see through a glass darkly, so we clearly not in the second time period, so tongues have not ceased, neither have the other means of communication such as prophecy and we still have the natural unredeemed bodies so the need for healing is still here.

If you want to receive the fulness of God's love "then", you should want to receive what he offers now to prepare his bride.

simply, do you want to receive the wedding garment by receiving the Holy Spirit now ?

Here's what you should expect:-
"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2v4)

[ivory]

The spiritual gifts are to edify the body of Christ. I attended a church for about a year or two where the gift of tongues was used very often. To be honest, I did not find it to be edifying at all because it turned into "those who had the gift of tongues" and those that didn't felt like we were missing something. Gifts should edify not divide. I have recently begun attending a new church and although I read on their website that they too believe in speaking in tongues, those who have this gift I have noticed are very quiet about it and I notice them speaking in tongues at their seat quietly. Not aloud as to confuse anyone. I have not felt like a step child because I do not speak in tongues. It's been very refreshing. I was told that Joyce Meyers has the gift of tongues but does not do it publically, that she does it in her personal prayer time.
Unknown tongues should be spoken your private devotion only

[Nadiine]

Yes, I've heard both groups of people on both sides of this issue. Quite frankly, I don't have a position on it except to say that, IF you have a gift, then simply use it as per the Bible's instruction.

I'd also like to add that many can fake and use these gifts to fleece Christians, so don't just accept someone seeming to display a gift, that it's authentic.
Satan can masquerade as an angel of light.

Here's a link to an explanation on the gifts ceasing:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1064006213.html

and here:
http://www.endtime.com/specialpage.asp?PageID=22

I don't argue if tongues has ceased or not - imo it's a doctrine we don't have to come to a full conclusion on.
If you claim you do, then use them correctly & I'll let God sort it all out.

The only time I get upset & debate tongues is when i hear people claim that IF you're saved, you will automatically recieve the gift of tongues.
THAT's false & stumbles people.

[simplyg123]

Yes, I've heard both groups of people on both sides of this issue. Quite frankly, I don't have a position on it except to say that, IF you have a gift, then simply use it as per the Bible's instruction.

I'd also like to add that many can fake and use these gifts to fleece Christians, so don't just accept someone seeming to display a gift, that it's authentic.
Satan can masquerade as an angel of light.

Here's a link to an explanation on the gifts ceasing:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1064006213.html

and here:
http://www.endtime.com/specialpage.asp?PageID=22

I don't argue if tongues has ceased or not - imo it's a doctrine we don't have to come to a full conclusion on.
If you claim you do, then use them correctly & I'll let God sort it all out.

The only time I get upset & debate tongues is when i hear people claim that IF you're saved, you will automatically recieve the gift of tongues.
THAT's false & stumbles people.
well said nadine

[linssue55]

Speaking in Tounges, Healing, miracles

i recently heard someone say the bible takes these gifts away when the new testament was completed, doe anyone have infor on this?


Spiritual Gifts: Principle of Temporary Gifts

1. A temporary gift was one which terminated in the first century (from 70-100 AD — period of termination) and has never been used since.

2. Gifts and signs which accompanied the apostles at the beginning of the Church Age (miracles, healings, apostleship, tongues, etc.) were spiritual gifts (temporary) all sovereignly bestowed by the Holy Spirit — 1 Corinthians 12:11.

3. Distribution of these temporary gifts not only involved the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit but the grace of God the Father. No believer ever earns or deserves any spiritual gift.

4. Due to the completion of the canon, the temporary gifts are no longer used. (Most were spectacular)

5. The fact that the Holy Spirit has withdrawn temporary gifts in our day (Post-canon period) is His way of focusing our attention on the Word of God. (Everything we need is in the Word itself. The Holy Spirit reminds us that we have something more powerful, more important: the Word of God itself).

6. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in His bestowal of spiritual gifts. There are those who imply that you do something in order to get these gifts: tarry, agonise, etc. This is a false assumption. They are gifts, get it? Gifts!

7. In the apostolic age there was an emphasis on supernatural phenomena because the absolute criterion was not completed. Therefore an apostle (or others) to establish himself and to perform any kind of divine service in a new town, performed some kind of miracle. This is why most temporary gifts were spectacular.

8. We live in the age when the Holy Spirit produces the character of Christ within us and divine good on the outside; therefore no temporary gifts (such as miracles) are necessary.

9. The miracle of today is the filling of the Holy Spirit producing in Mr Average Believer the very character of Christ — Galatians 4:19; 5:22-23.

10. Often the peril of Christians today is being conspicuous, drawing attention to themselves rather than Jesus Christ.

11. Any attempt today to imitate these temporary gifts is fakery, either emotional or ecstatic involvement, or demon possession or influence.

[simplyg123]

5. The fact that the Holy Spirit has withdrawn temporary gifts in our day (Post-canon period) is His way of focusing our attention on the Word of God. (Everything we need is in the Word itself. The Holy Spirit reminds us that we have something more powerful, more important: the Word of God itself).



How do you know this, where is the scripture that specifies it, do you know this from what you have been taught, or form the word itself?

[linssue55]

How do you know this, where is the scripture that specifies it, do you know this from what you have been taught, or form the word itself?


Exegeted

{Summary / Then Temporary Gifts Will Cease}


1 Cor 13:8~~ Agape love - produced by the filling of the Spirit - never fails. But where there be the gift of prophecies - they shall become non-operational. Where there be the gift of languages - they shall cease. Where there be the gift of knowledge - it shall vanish away.


{Note: These were the temporary gifts needed to spread the Word of God before the Canon of Scriptures was completed.}

[simplyg123]

Exegeted

{Summary / Then Temporary Gifts Will Cease}


1 Cor 13:8~~ Agape love - produced by the filling of the Spirit - never fails. But where there be the gift of prophecies - they shall become non-operational. Where there be the gift of languages - they shall cease. Where there be the gift of knowledge - it shall vanish away.


{Note: These were the temporary gifts needed to spread the Word of God before the Canon of Scriptures was completed.}
agreed, however, it does not say when, you are assuming this

[ivory]

Exegeted

{Summary / Then Temporary Gifts Will Cease}


1 Cor 13:8~~ Agape love - produced by the filling of the Spirit - never fails. But where there be the gift of prophecies - they shall become non-operational. Where there be the gift of languages - they shall cease. Where there be the gift of knowledge - it shall vanish away.


{Note: These were the temporary gifts needed to spread the Word of God before the Canon of Scriptures was completed.}
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, "10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away." 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

"BUT WHEN THE PERFECT COMES"
you must read the whole chapter not just one or two verses.

[linssue55]

agreed, however, it does not say when, you are assuming this


This is known IF you know (Isogogics) historical trends. These special gifts were only given to the apostles, and John was the last to die. These gifts ceased around 76 A.D..

Anyway tongues eventually ceased in A.D. 76, because it faded out, but now satan has introduced it once again to the church, and has confused many.

Mat 7:13-15
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

[ivory]

"Anyway tongues eventually ceased in A.D. 76, because it faded out, but now satan has introduced it once again to the church, and has confused many."

And where can I find this in the Word of God.
I believe there's a order to speak in unknown tongues as the bible directs us, but for you to make that kind of statement you need to back it up with the Word of God. Chapter, scripture, verses.

[simplyg123]

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."

so does this mean i missed jesus's comming?

and if you are going to say the finished bible is the perfect that came, how do you know it is finished, and how do you know that is what it is referenced too

just so you know i am pretty much undecided on this issue, and my mind is open, however i have seen false spiritual gifts in practice, so i am biased on my oppinion.

i just want the truth, if it is know, if it is unknow, then that would be the truth.

it seems to me that only the holder of these gifts would truly know, however they may just be acting on emotion and confusing it with the holy spirit.

[ivory]

"How do you know the church doesn't follow these guidelines?"

I've been a Pentecostal for 23 years, I know!

[ivory]

so does this mean i missed jesus's comming?

and if you are going to say the finished bible is the perfect that came, how do you know it is finished, and how do you know that is what it is referenced too

just so you know i am pretty much undecided on this issue, and my mind is open, however i have seen false spiritual gifts in practice, so i am biased on my oppinion.

i just want the truth, if it is know, if it is unknow, then that would be the truth.

it seems to me that only the holder of these gifts would truly know, however they may just be acting on emotion and confusing it with the holy spirit.
No, this means these gifts have not ceased yet.

[blackskysurrender]

Speculation I think... But that is what it looks like.

[Nadiine]

This is known IF you know (Isogogics) historical trends. These special gifts were only given to the apostles, and John was the last to die. These gifts ceased around 76 A.D..

Anyway tongues eventually ceased in A.D. 76, because it faded out, but now satan has introduced it once again to the church, and has confused many.

Mat 7:13-15
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

I agree that 'few' find the narrow & small, but a 'few' in the percentage of population can be many millions of people ;) :)

One other thing that I think is important to note here which I've posted on another thread is, THERE ARE 2 TYPES OF TONGUES.
One is a heavenly language (found in 1 Cor 12-14), and the other is "dialects" in Acts 2 at Pentecost.

When you read the whole chapter, you see that it's original languages/dialects that they were given by the Spirit (no interpretors were interpreting) while many nearby Jews understood the languages.

The 1 Cor 12-14 tongues NEEDS interpretors when used in public becuz NO ONE can understand it without them. (BOTH are a gift).

I believe that tongues that "ceased" (if indeed any HAVE), are THOSE. HOw many of us are able to know a foreign language supernaturally without any study? The missionaries I know have to manually learn the languages.

While I do have a few friends that i trust who say they speak in tongues. I do'nt know the whole answer about what ceased, but I do think IF any have ceased, it's the tongues that are DIALECTS.

[ivory]

1 Cor 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV

1 Cor 14:4
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. KJV

1 Cor 14:13
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray thathe may interpret. KJV

1 Cor 14:14
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. KJV

1 Cor 14:19
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. KJV

1 Cor 14:27
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. KJV

[PaladinGirl]

Don't believe those people who say that the spiritual gifts ended when the New Testament was completed. That is not true. The spiritual gifts are alive and well.

[linssue55]

"Anyway tongues eventually ceased in A.D. 76, because it faded out, but now satan has introduced it once again to the church, and has confused many."

And where can I find this in the Word of God.
I believe there's a order to speak in unknown tongues as the bible directs us, but for you to make that kind of statement you need to back it up with the Word of God. Chapter, scripture, verses.


There is no exact verses that say's 76 A.D.......BUT this is known IF you know (Isogogics) "historical trends." These special gifts were only given to the apostles, and John was the last to die. These gifts ceased around 76 A.D..

Isagogically

That means we consider the historical, geographical, economic, political, & cultural elements of the time period in which the Scriptures were written. An accurate interpretation of the Word of God without such due consideration is impossible.

[linssue55]

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, "10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away." 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

"BUT WHEN THE PERFECT COMES"
you must read the whole chapter not just one or two verses.


{Summary of above/ Then Temporary Gifts Will Cease}
8~~ Agape love - produced by the filling of the Spirit - never fails.
But where there be the gift of prophecies -
they shall become non-operational.
Where there be the gift of languages - they shall cease.
Where there be the gift of knowledge - it shall vanish away.


{Note: These were the temporary gifts needed to spread the Word of God before the Canon of Scriptures was completed.}


{Emphasis on 'The More Excellent Way'}
9~~ For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.


{Note: Before the Canon was complete the missing 'part' had to be taught from the gift of knowledge and prophesy.}

{Temporary Spiritual Gifts will end when the Canon is Complete}

10~~ But when 'The Perfect {thing}' is come,
then the part shall be done away.


{Note: See James 1:25 - the Bible is 'The Perfect Law of Liberty'. And in the Greek syntax here, 'The Perfect' is in the neuter case so it does not refer to Christ. When the New Testament was finished, all temporary gifts would end. The gift of languages/'tongues' ended in Aug 70. The other temporary gifts ended in 96 AD with the Amen at the end of Revelation - the completion of the Canon of Scriptures - that neuter thing which is perfect.}


{Illustration of above point}
11~~ When I was a child,
I spoke as a child,
I understood as a child,
I thought as a child.
But when I became a man,
I put away childish things.


{Note: Paul is saying when the Church comes to full age (cannon is complete) then the 'childish things' used as crutches primarily in evangelism and in 'knowing doctrine without study' . . . must be put away. The temporary gifts are put away because we now have the complete written Word.}


12~~ For now by means of a mirror
we see an obscure form {the form of Christ)
but not as clear as looking right at Him,
but, then {eternity future} . . .
face to face {with Christ}.
Now I know in part,
but then I shall know {Christ} . . .
even as He knows me {and He is omniscient}.


{Note: This is an advancing analogy. As the pre-cannon period is to the post-cannon period . . . so is the post-cannon period to eternity future.}


13~~ And now
keep on abiding faith {faith rest technique},
hope/'absolute confidence' {pertaining to eternity future},
agape love {filling of the Spirit} . . .
these three . . .
But the greatest of these is agape love.


{Note: Agape love is the most important in the post-cannon period. And this can only be produced by the filling of the Holy Spirit.}

[linssue55]

Tongues: General

There are two prophecies concerning the gift of tongues and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, one in the Old Testament and one in the New Testament. Isaiah 28:11 is the prophesy that the jews will be evangelised in Gentile languages; Acts 1:5 is the prophecy of the event which would signal the beginning of the Church Age -- 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Israel was responsible before God as the custodians of the Word of God -- Romans 3:1-2, and for evangelisation. The failure of Israel to evangelise resulted in divine discipline. She lost the custodianship of the Word to a "new people," the Church: Day of Pentecost, 32 AD. Israel was evangelised in Gentile languages which was a sign (1 Corinthians 14:21-22) of the fifth cycle of discipline (Leviticus 26) which was to begin in AD 70. (The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and Israel was dispersed)

The fulfillment of the prophecies were seen in the book of Acts. Jews were evangelied in Gentile languages on the day of Pentecost and after - Acts 2:7-11. The Church began on the day of Pentecost; all Jewish believers received the baptism of the Holy Spirit entering them into union with Christ - 1 Corinthians 12:13. In Acts 10:44-48 this was extended to Gentile believers in Caesarea - Acts 11:15. In Acts 19:1-6 other believers in various locations and at different times received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, entering them into union with Christ, making them Chuch Age believers.

Why was tongues the first gift to be used on the day of Pentecost?

Tongues was the first gift to be used on the day of Pentecost and its primary use was evangelism. The great barrier to evangelism was that the city was filled with many people who spoke many languages, therefore a language barrier existed.

Pentecost began the Church Age and a new modus operandi began immediately: spiritual gifts came into operation. However, because tongues was the first gift used it does not imply that it was the most important. 1 Corinthians 12:28 says it is the least of all spiritual gifts.

The gift of tongues was used only in the first part of the Church Age. In the pre-canon period there were both temporary gifts and permanent gifts. In the post-canon periof there were only permanent gifts. The unusual activities in the book of Acts must be regarded in the light of the fact that the canon was not completed and not circulated; Acts is simply a history of the pre-canon period. Therefore during that period there was a great crash program called temporary gifts: a stop-gap measure to take up the slack, which later on would be taken up by the completed canon.

The gift of tongues was discontinued upon the completion of the canon (actually before that).

Without exception, the gift was used to declare the Gospel. Thus the Church Age was announced and so was the approaching curse on Israel. The phenomenon of tongues continued for nearly forty years — until the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Wherever Jews lived throughout the world the same means of evangelism was followed: some believer who possessed the gift of tongues witnessed to them in the language of the country of their residence. Once the Jews were dispersed, there was no further need for tongues. Consequently, the gift of tongues was withdrawn!

[linssue55]

I agree that 'few' find the narrow & small, but a 'few' in the percentage of population can be many millions of people ;) :)

One other thing that I think is important to note here which I've posted on another thread is, THERE ARE 2 TYPES OF TONGUES.
One is a heavenly language (found in 1 Cor 12-14), and the other is "dialects" in Acts 2 at Pentecost.

When you read the whole chapter, you see that it's original languages/dialects that they were given by the Spirit (no interpretors were interpreting) while many nearby Jews understood the languages.

The 1 Cor 12-14 tongues NEEDS interpretors when used in public becuz NO ONE can understand it without them. (BOTH are a gift).

I believe that tongues that "ceased" (if indeed any HAVE), are THOSE. HOw many of us are able to know a foreign language supernaturally without any study? The missionaries I know have to manually learn the languages.

While I do have a few friends that i trust who say they speak in tongues. I do'nt know the whole answer about what ceased, but I do think IF any have ceased, it's the tongues that are DIALECTS.

Sorry, what you say makes no sense. The gift covered Many languages (tongues), and Many dialects.......God made sure of that the unbelievers were reached with the gosple, so He equiped all that had the gift with the languages and dialects that were needed tp spread the good newsa.

[didaskalos]

Actually 1 Corin 13 is NOT saying that love is better than gifts.
1 Corin 13 is telling us that love is the better way (than coveting) to get the best gifts into operation.

[AllTalkNoAction]

Actually 1 Corin 13 is NOT saying that love is better than gifts.
1 Corin 13 is telling us that love is the better way (than coveting) to get the best gifts into operation.We should covet the gifts for the right reason . . .realise they are vehicles for God's love at this time . . . "Follow after love, and desire spiritual gifts"

[- DRA -]

Don't believe those people who say that the spiritual gifts ended when the New Testament was completed. That is not true. The spiritual gifts are alive and well.

Note 1 Cor. 4:19 - "But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power" (ESV). In this context, the "arrogant people" are those who undermined the apostle Paul's teaching and influence among the Corinthians in Paul's absence. Now, Paul is planning to return to Corinth. Therefore, it would be obvious who really had the power of the Holy Spirit. He had real power ... and those opposed him had ... words ... NO power ... just words! Imagine the contrast. Likewise, today there are those who talk about spiritual gifts as if they have them. Just like the folks who opposed Paul, there is NO power ... just talk.

Sorry for the bluntness, but this passage is a sobering reality check for those who claim to be able to perform spiritual gifts today. :blush:

[tonysma]

Didn't read every post...Answering to the first..This is what I have heard people say...That all the gifts were given as a sign Jesus was Christ...That all these events happend as a sign, and that when the disciples died so did the power....

[ivory]

There is no exact verses that say's 76 A.D.......BUT this is known IF you know (Isogogics) "historical trends." These special gifts were only given to the apostles, and John was the last to die. These gifts ceased around 76 A.D..

Isagogically

That means we consider the historical, geographical, economic, political, & cultural elements of the time period in which the Scriptures were written. An accurate interpretation of the Word of God without such due consideration is impossible.
I go by the Word of God for truth.

[onelamb]

Didn't read every post...Answering to the first..This is what I have heard people say...That all the gifts were given as a sign Jesus was Christ...That all these events happend as a sign, and that when the disciples died so did the power....
Unfortunatly much of the church has this idea-but it isn't at all Biblical. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance. He doesn't change-and the same Jesus who baptised believers in the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 is still our Lord and is ready, willing and able to give anyone who believes in Him the Promise of the Father.

[linssue55]

I go by the Word of God for truth.

This "IS" the word on how people should know it, so they don't come up with their OWN interpretations. Peoples own intepretations, is OFTEN based on THEIR own way of wanting the word to mean, and this is NOT the word of God.

The bible MUST be interpreted in the TIME in which it was written.