Young couple disagrees on salvation, needs church

[BonnieAmerican]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and I couldn't help seeking advice when I saw this topic. I guess I'd better start by giving a little background on our past churches and our past and present beliefs.

We are a young couple with no children (yet), married for five years. We are both born-again Christians. My husband was raised catholic but is quite "anti-catholic" now. I was raised non-denominationally Christian. We recently returned from living in Mexico for two years. While we were there we went to a baptist church, but then a friend of my husband's convinced him that that church's doctrine was incorrect. My husband then started to go to his friend's church. There, all women wore head coverings and long skirts to thier ankles without slits. They believed that baptism was necessary for Salvation, and that one could lose salvation by sinning. They spoke in tongues, saw visions, and annointed eachother with oil on a regular basis. I tried to attend the church. I managed to go three times, and tried to open my ears and heart, but I just felt like they were not teaching biblical truth. I thought I could live with the little legalistic quirks they had about long skirts and not showing your ears in public, but as soon as I did that, something big would come out. Something that I could not make myself agree with. I even tried to convince myself to go just in order to submit to my husband, who wanted me to go so badly. I couldn't. I refused to go. My husband continued to go and I just didn't go anywhere at all. My husband was no longer sure of his salvation. I was sure of mine and the fact that he suddenly started to believe something so radically different than what our relationship was built on tore me up. I cried and cried. I asked him that if he died tomorrow, did he think he would go to be with the Lord, and he said he couldn't be sure anymore. It tore me up inside. I sat in front of the door and begged him not to go to that church. I really felt like he was being led astray by Satan. So........it was really hard on our marriage. All he did was read the Bible day and night, which is a good thing, but it seemed like he was only doing it in order to prove to me that my beliefs were wrong. Well, a few months later, the Lord brought us back to the US.

NOw my husand still reads the Bible night and day and every free minute he gets, but we are not going to church. I am afraid to go to church, because I think it might be impossible to find a church that we can both agree on. This whole thing is tearing me up spiritually. Every once in a blue moon my husband will teach me something that I knew is truth from the Bible and that feels so wonderful to be in spiritual union....even if for only a few minutes. I feel like this difference of our beliefs has caused me to distance myself from the Lord. Besides prayer, the only thing I can think of to do is to try to find a hurch that has the things we DO agree on and doesn't focus so much on the things we don't agree on. It seems impossible since the things we are disagreeing on are so fundamental and important to each of us. My husband even refuses to pray with me anymore. He will not pray in front of me, even before we eat. I think if we could only find a church were we could get some spiritual guidance as a couple, things might get better. I need a reccomendation of a denomination that might work for us. We need to at least go to church together. I can't stand to be spiritually separated like this.

So, here are the things we DO agree on that are important to us :
The divinity of Christ (Jesus is God, God is Jesus)
Jesus rose from the dead the third day
The Bible is the one and only true word of God (divinly inspired)
There is a heaven and there is a hell
Satan exists and demons exist
God created the world

Things that we do Not agree on at this time that are important to us:
Salvation can be lost after it is received
Baptism is necessary for salvation
How one has to be baptized
What salvation is and how important it is

Please give whatever advice you have. I think if we can just find a church.......it could be a stepping off point to grow back together spiritually. One of us is wrong, and I know that the Lord will eventually reveal the truth to whichever of us that is, but in the meantime, it's so hard to live like this.

If we could find some church that has all of the characteristics of the first list and does not focus on those of the second, that would be great.

Sorry this is so long. I just felt like I had to explain a lot about us in order for people to understand and give the best advice.

[KnowBeDo]

I don't know of a particular church, but search for GARBC and read what they believe. They have church a church locator if you happen to like what you read. What part of N. CA are you in?

[Rick Otto]

more than I like any church I've ever been to.
I like your dediction to each other & how it transcends your loyalty to any group of believers.
I like how you stay together in spite of the divisive pressures of denominations.
You obviously love each other. I just love that.
Sorry I'm not bein' much help, but I see something precious surviving impossible odds. I have to admire and respect that.
I'll pray about it & try to come back with something more helpful.
God love you both!

[Tatu]

.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

simple

[jsimms615]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and I couldn't help seeking advice when I saw this topic. I guess I'd better start by giving a little background on our past churches and our past and present beliefs.

We are a young couple with no children (yet), married for five years. We are both born-again Christians. My husband was raised catholic but is quite "anti-catholic" now. I was raised non-denominationally Christian. We recently returned from living in Mexico for two years. While we were there we went to a baptist church, but then a friend of my husband's convinced him that that church's doctrine was incorrect. My husband then started to go to his friend's church. There, all women wore head coverings and long skirts to thier ankles without slits. They believed that baptism was necessary for Salvation, and that one could lose salvation by sinning. They spoke in tongues, saw visions, and annointed eachother with oil on a regular basis. I tried to attend the church. I managed to go three times, and tried to open my ears and heart, but I just felt like they were not teaching biblical truth. I thought I could live with the little legalistic quirks they had about long skirts and not showing your ears in public, but as soon as I did that, something big would come out. Something that I could not make myself agree with. I even tried to convince myself to go just in order to submit to my husband, who wanted me to go so badly. I couldn't. I refused to go. My husband continued to go and I just didn't go anywhere at all. My husband was no longer sure of his salvation. I was sure of mine and the fact that he suddenly started to believe something so radically different than what our relationship was built on tore me up. I cried and cried. I asked him that if he died tomorrow, did he think he would go to be with the Lord, and he said he couldn't be sure anymore. It tore me up inside. I sat in front of the door and begged him not to go to that church. I really felt like he was being led astray by Satan. So........it was really hard on our marriage. All he did was read the Bible day and night, which is a good thing, but it seemed like he was only doing it in order to prove to me that my beliefs were wrong. Well, a few months later, the Lord brought us back to the US.

NOw my husand still reads the Bible night and day and every free minute he gets, but we are not going to church. I am afraid to go to church, because I think it might be impossible to find a church that we can both agree on. This whole thing is tearing me up spiritually. Every once in a blue moon my husband will teach me something that I knew is truth from the Bible and that feels so wonderful to be in spiritual union....even if for only a few minutes. I feel like this difference of our beliefs has caused me to distance myself from the Lord. Besides prayer, the only thing I can think of to do is to try to find a hurch that has the things we DO agree on and doesn't focus so much on the things we don't agree on. It seems impossible since the things we are disagreeing on are so fundamental and important to each of us. My husband even refuses to pray with me anymore. He will not pray in front of me, even before we eat. I think if we could only find a church were we could get some spiritual guidance as a couple, things might get better. I need a reccomendation of a denomination that might work for us. We need to at least go to church together. I can't stand to be spiritually separated like this.

So, here are the things we DO agree on that are important to us :
The divinity of Christ (Jesus is God, God is Jesus)
Jesus rose from the dead the third day
The Bible is the one and only true word of God (divinly inspired)
There is a heaven and there is a hell
Satan exists and demons exist
God created the world

Things that we do Not agree on at this time that are important to us:
Salvation can be lost after it is received
Baptism is necessary for salvation
How one has to be baptized
What salvation is and how important it is

Please give whatever advice you have. I think if we can just find a church.......it could be a stepping off point to grow back together spiritually. One of us is wrong, and I know that the Lord will eventually reveal the truth to whichever of us that is, but in the meantime, it's so hard to live like this.

If we could find some church that has all of the characteristics of the first list and does not focus on those of the second, that would be great.

Sorry this is so long. I just felt like I had to explain a lot about us in order for people to understand and give the best advice.
It sounds like this church nearly tore you both apart. I'm glad it didn't. I think more than anything you should pray that God would give some men in your husbands life who would be a good influence on him spiritual and who he will listen to. Sometimes we need to hear some things from people outside of our immediate family.
Maybe a non-denominational church would be the right thing for you right now? More than anything, I would say trying spending a lot of time together doing things not related to church and enjoy each other and repair the bonds satan has tried to break.
J

[HumbleMan]

First, welcome to CF!

I hate it when satan tears families apart by mixing a little part of truth with a lot of false.

Focus on the fact that God brought you together. He had a reason for that, and it may well be revealed to you in these times.

I used to attend a Church of God (Cleveland, TN), and they sounded about like what you're looking for. They meet all the critieria in the first list, and believe that you can lose your salvation. They are Pentecostal, but don't put emphasis on clothing/jewelry so much. They are holiness, and the worship is awesome at the church's I've attended. They do speak in tongues and annoint with oil.

The Assemblies of God are also very close to this model.

But what I feel you two should do is agree to meet (outside of church) with some local pastors. Ask them about their churches. This should also get your husband to talking, and maybe someone will reach him and he'll be convicted about the legalistic nature of your former church. Hopefully, you'll find a church you can both be happy in.

Has he told you why he feels his salvation is in jeopardy?

[legend01]

Hi I cannot help you with your problems. It's seems that you're opposite when it comes to understanding of the Gospel. I guess it is for you good news - we don't have to save ourselves, Jesus did the work that we should have done.
Your husband on the other hand see the gospel as some unfinished business. Jesus came and opened up the road back to God, but it's our deeds and work that will bring us there.

I'm not that good in explaining, but I think that this link could give you some more answers. Because I don't think that understanding which church is the right one for you is the most important issue. The only thing that will set you (both) free is the Thruth. And the Thruth is not having knowledge of the "right" doctrine, but to know the Saviour, the Gospel Himself. He don't live inside the church doors.

Nick Cave wrote a song God is in the house. His last line are: God is in the house - oh I wish He would come out. I think we people (the church) wants so badly that God should come to "OUR" church and bless it. So we try to keep Him inside our building. That's wrong! (of course)

Well back to the link which is called Jesus vs christianity. www.jvscsophiii.blogspot.com (http://www.jvscsophiii.blogspot.com)

I have myself been dedicated to my church, and it practically tore me apart. A church is build up by normal human like you and me. It's an human institution with all it's failure and "lackness" (?).

Hope you will find freedom with the Thruth.

Blessings from Norway.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Choose a church based on the fellowship giving evidence that Unity in the Spirit in the Bonds of Peace is present there, and that the Holy Spirit is active and moving within the membership to bear fruit, to grow in grace, to minister to one another. Never mind doctrine or doctrinal disputes; they get you nowhere, and having the perfect doctrine or the correct doctrine does NOT ensure that the church will be an edifying, spiritually healthy congregation. Forget the doctrinal question altogether, seriously, unless whatever they are teaching is SO way out that you'd feel dishonest being a part of it. Just go for the essentials: we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and it is Christ that saves us -- not our works, not our religion, not our testimony, not our doctrine, not our system of thought, and NOT our views on political and/or social issues for crying out loud. Put all that nonsense away from you and focus on finding a nurturing fellowship where you can grow, be encouraged, and receive and exercise your calling in Him.

Seriously, nothing else matters.

Seriously.

[SecretOfFatima]

Well... how about an Eastern church... they also hold the seven sacraments given to us by GOD, and at this rate, hopefully they will be one of the first to be in full communion (http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=22352) with the Church that Christ established in Mathew 16 (http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/thechurch.html).

God bless you both

p.s. I'm puzzled why someone would leave the church Christ established, maybe you or your husband should pop by at the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) area and ask some questions, I'm sure we all would be very insterested in hearing your theological grounds to give the Church that Jesus establish.

[Rick Otto]

said the spider to the fly.

Maybe the reasons aren't just "theological".
Maybe some personal respect and consideration is more important than any "theological reasons".
You're "spamming" a real person, when what they need is compassion.
Are you sure it's not yourself you're trying to convince?
Try not to be so easily puzzled.
might be better just to help them find their own way.
Thanks.

[dancingwithhim]

I feel for you! The best thing that you can do right now is just pray. Let me tell you that it does work. It worked in my marriage. My husband didn't go to church and wouldn't because he was hurt and also some personal things. After a while of praying, my husband finally chose to go and the Lord ministered to him. He is now free! yeah! So, don't give up hope!

If you lived near me, I would invite you to mine. I go to a non-denominational church. My pastor use to believe like your husband believes. He was raised that way. After spending time in the Word and allowing the Lord to lead him as he studied, he realized that what he read wasn't the truth.
As someone else suggested, you could attend an Assembly of God church.

Your husband will change when he allows the Holy Spirit to open up his eyes. He has to be tired! I do feel for him and I feel for you too. Just trust the Father in this. Just think, when you are through all this, you 2 will have a strength that you never had before. You will get through this rough time.

[NHB_MMA]

Things that we do Not agree on at this time that are important to us:
Salvation can be lost after it is received
Baptism is necessary for salvation
How one has to be baptized
What salvation is and how important it is

Wow, I feel bad for your situation. I am not married, but I probably would not marry someone that did not agree with me on the issues you mentioned. But you obviously need to work this out some way. I don't have any good advice for you, but hope it works out.

[GarethV]

Hi,

My wife and I are also young, and have been through the same problems. I had in the past a very liberal anglican outlook and she had a very evangelical / fundementalist protestant view.

I think you should be able to find a church which agrees on all your central teachings and will allow personal belief on the others, so you can both believe in what you believe within the fellowship of a denomination.

Confirming OSAS or denying it wouldn't be binding in most Protestant churches, as the jury seems to be out on this...

Baptism I think is something we all should do, but consider the theif on the cross.

As far a baptismal method, I personally think all methods are valid, BUT for a compromise, I see the baptist church view as following Jesus' example. But I also believe Paul baptized three people in prison, most likely useing a cup.

I think with a bit of thought about other people's viewpoints, and research, we can often feel comfortable making a compromise on many of these less critical issues.

A previous poster mentioned AOG, this could work. Its not a denomination as such though, so they aren't all the same, (isn't that true of all churches though :-))

One thing I've found is you can research doctrines of different churches heaps, but when it comes to the crunch if you go along and it doesn't work for you or feel right, then you have to move on anyway.

Good luck and God bless, I'll pray for you both. Pray for me also, as I'm started looking at the moment, as over time my beliefs have become more evangelical and congrational. ;-)

[DLMoody]

Tell you husband to read Galatians. It addresses legalism and gives a great guideline for true salvatian. I'm glad you are submitting to your husband but you must submit to God first. Please PM if you have any questions. I wish you guys the best of luck!
In Christ,
Greg

[Frame1520]

Yowsa. I feel for you in this situation. I will pray for you and your husband. Pray for unity, as Christ did. Lets face it, man has done a pretty poor job in following Christ. Many have added rules, regulations, steps, requirements, etc. that are not even biblical in basis. The bible is pretty clear on everything when you line it up and put it in context. As is evident by the church your husband was attending (with the head coverings) almost anything can be taken to an extreme with the use of but one or 2 similar texts. But context is everything.

I'm not going to go into my views here, as I'm sure everyone has a different opinion...But I will pray for the both of you. Your faith is strong, and I think your story is a fine witness to being faithful, and steadfast, regardless of Satan's attacks. God bless.

[BonnieAmerican]

I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back online. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of your kind words of encouragement, advice, and love.

[flaglady]

So how are things now? I just got through your OP and was greatly touched.

[BigNorsk]

I think with your areas of agreement, that if you both actually stick to them that you can work this thing out. You both have to be willing to submit to the bible though if it is proven that it actually teaches something.

What I would suggest is taking new member classes or catechism at some church or churches. Not so much with the idea of joining that church, but to examine your doctrine and arrive at mutual agreement.

Hopefully your husband would agree to that. See the thing is, right now, where he is at he basically expects you to take what he says and adopt it as your belief, to submit. And the problem is is that you see it as conflicting with God and that he is expecting you to chose God or him. And of course you can't reject God.

He got in with some Judaizers for awhile and that legalism is pretty destructive, it's really not a little thing. Paul characterizes such things as falling from grace. But I think you probably have some things like that too. Since you mentioned that you had gone to a Baptist church for awhile and you mention the two of you disagree on the mode of baptism, I am taking that to mean you believe that baptism must be by immersion. That isn't biblical actually. We had quite a discussion going on in Sacramental Theology under "infant baptism" and the evidence is just so overwhelming that baptism is not only by immmersion that you will need to give that up.

Anyway, try that. I would suggest membership class at a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod congregation if possible. I know there isn't a congregation from my synod where you are. The reason I would say LCMS is that it isn't like what either of you would currently chose on your own, so it isn't let's go someplace that will support one over the other. And it agrees on those things that the two of you agree on. So it will go through important doctrines and give the biblical proofs of them, and the two of you can look at them and discuss them. And it isn't personal like your husband would take disagreement if he was trying to teach you.

Church locator for them is http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/locators/nchurches/church.asp

I think that would be the best way for the two of you to approach this right now.

If there is no LCMS congregation near you, a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church would also be a good choice.

I would also think if neither of them are available that some of the Reformed Churches would be a good choice for the same. Maybe an Evangelical Free, or a Presbyterian Church in America congregation.

I think all of those would give you biblical teaching and give the two of you a chance to work this out.

Marv

[Aibrean]

I think it would help for you both to learn Greek :D

Seriously...I would have be in the same boat with most of your points had I not taken a class at my church (like poster said above...and my church is LCMS) which went over in detail (with supporting scripture and Greek translation) baptism, salvation, and the Lord's supper to thus "enlighten" me.

I do have all the paper work if you would like me to give it to you.