charasmatic

[EJO]

In your word, what would qualify a charasmatic church from a baptist, or a presbyterian or any other run o' the mill congrigation?

[9-iron]

In your word, what would qualify a charasmatic church from a baptist, or a presbyterian or any other run o' the mill congrigation?

Differences I have noticed are prayer lingo, going out in the spirit, prophecy, worship values. Outside those I find most charasmatic churches in line with main stream denominations.
If you really want to see where renewal is entering the church these days look at how a church is governed. Really, most of the so-called charasmatic churchs I know are governed in much the same way denominational churches are. The difference is in the gifts.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Well, with the word Charasmatic there is the assumption that means that the gifts are taught and practiced in the services.

I know of Charasmatic Catholic churches, Charasmatic Baptist churches, and Charasmatic Presbeterian churches. Then there's many of the non-denominationals, which is what I go to.

[stumpsitting101]

Actually by defination of the Word "Charismatic"; all people which follow The Lord's leading are.
We've made the word into something bad or outside tradition, but it simply means "Gifted" . Generally used in referrence to any group which display "The Gifts of the Spirit" as recorded in 1Corinthians 12, but these are not a complete list of the Holy Spirit's gifts to the Church.
Trying to sum this up, Everyone who has received Jesus as their Lord is gifted by receiving the "Gift" of the Holy Spirit. This "Gift" in turn makes all the other gifts accessible. Soooooo, by this defination of "Gifted", (not stating any particular gift), will include all believers, for all have received.
Hope I didn't muddy the water too much. It seems to be such a simple word and defination, yet made so complicated.
Ken

[silentmessenger]

I agree with Ken. Biblically the word is defined as a Gift of His Holy Grace - when we become a regenerated man. The worldly nature in english has become to describe someone or a church - who has a certain indefinable quality which attracts people to their personaility or the churches style of teaches and praise and worship.

As for Biblical Persons, Apollos would in todays standards be defined as one having Charisma ( ACTS 18:24-28) Yet the Apostle Paul lacked it. However both men had definite spiritual gifts that God had given them.
We are called to use all the gifts God has set forth in scripture. In 1 Cornithians 12:14-21 Paul notes there are many members but only one body. Each part - or gift is important in God's divine Plan. All the gifts are essential and important for the body of Christ to function properly.
Each church which uses these gifts that are needed for His Kingdom are in essence charismatic. A hand is still a hand without the thumb. The importance of the thumb is great. So therefore for a hand to be a complete hand, the thumb need to be present!
These gifts are to be used together for His purpose and will!
Charisma is a great thing!
Blessings and Peace

[superdave]

The word Charismatic comes from the root word in the greek- Charisma- which means Gifts... I believe.

I think there is a big difference between Mainline Denominations and Charismatic Churches. In Church Government, Worship, Methods, everything... That's my opinion.

[SUNSTONE]

Charismatic just means, its the best church you can goto. 8)

[EJO]

lol sunstone.
With the mention of mainline denominations- and charasmatic churches, do you think that the charasmatic churches are more gifted?
Or do they just 'tap into' the gifts more than other churches...


hmmmm

[superdave]

I think that most mainline denominations, do ignore the gifts. But what they are doing is fine. Like when David built a new temple, he blessed the other ones that were doing something else. I think the Charismatic church is like that. I don't know if that made sense or not..

[SUNSTONE]

lol sunstone.
With the mention of mainline denominations- and charasmatic churches, do you think that the charasmatic churches are more gifted?
Or do they just 'tap into' the gifts more than other churches...


hmmmm

They tap into it more, than most. I believe that the #1 false doctrine in the church, is that God is in total control. And that whatever He wants happens.So I think this effects how people do things.
I was listening to Andrew Wormack, and he said, Jesus told us to go heal the sick. He didn't say go pray for the sick.
He said it was like salvation, its there for the taking, but you have to want it, AND take it.

Everyone that has the Holy Spirit in them, have the gifts.Everyone excels in some of the gifts, but all are available, as needed.

[EJO]

They tap into it more, than most. I believe that the #1 false doctrine in the church, is that God is in total control. And that whatever He wants happens.So I think this effects how people do things.
I was listening to Andrew Wormack, and he said, Jesus told us to go heal the sick. He didn't say go pray for the sick.
He said it was like salvation, its there for the taking, but you have to want it, AND take it.

Everyone that has the Holy Spirit in them, have the gifts.Everyone excels in some of the gifts, but all are available, as needed.
I think I have to disagree with you on that Sunstone.
We has humans, our rightiousness is as filthy rags. We are sinners and God needs to be in TOTAL control. He has a certain way to be worshiped- in spirit and in truth. Why do you think He had the whole book of Dueteronomy for the purpose of His people, the Jews written? It is too show them how He was to be worshiped, and approached in order to have a relationship with Him.

We are to pray for the sick, but not everyone has the gift of healing- see 1Cor 11:27-29. So we all can pray.

I do agree with your last statement- Everyone that has the Holy Spirit in them, have the gifts.Everyone excels in some of the gifts, but all are available, as needed.
God Bless- EJO

[The Midge]

Way back when I was at home with my parents and going to their old fashioned church there used to be one or two Charismatics in the congregation quietly doing their own thing. I have visited other churches from time to time which have not emphasised charismatic gifts, but have used them in the background. Sometimes these have been more faithful and effective churches than the ones that made a specticle out of using the Holy Spirit every week.

It is better to use what you have and faithfully love God than to yearn for that which has not forgiven and try and convince everyone that you have. We can all worship in Spirit and truth without talking in tounges or performing miracles. A regular prayer life, bible study, church attendance and whitness are probably as good as any other ways to worship.

[SUNSTONE]

I think I have to disagree with you on that Sunstone.
We has humans, our rightiousness is as filthy rags. We are sinners and God needs to be in TOTAL control. He has a certain way to be worshiped- in spirit and in truth. Why do you think He had the whole book of Dueteronomy for the purpose of His people, the Jews written? It is too show them how He was to be worshiped, and approached in order to have a relationship with Him.

We are to pray for the sick, but not everyone has the gift of healing- see 1Cor 11:27-29. So we all can pray.

I do agree with your last statement-
God Bless- EJO

Yes our righteousness is filthy, if we don't have Jesus. But God did not make us this way, did He?
We are white as snow now, with the blood of Jesus. Now I am a child of God, no longer a dirty rotten sinner, even thou I sin. Because as Joyce Myers says, "we are human beings, not human doings."

If God was in total control then your sins, are His fault.So are your failures. But what does the bible say, "Man ruins his way, and his heart rages against the Lord."
It also talks about wisdom and tells how it is all ways calling out, saying, you simpletons how long will you love simplicity.

The laws of sowing and reaping.

In order to say that God was in total control, then your actions, must be controlled as well. You must be a puppet.


Man I have so much to say, but I have to take a nap before I go back to work. :sleep:

[SpiritPsalmist]

Way back when I was at home with my parents and going to their old fashioned church there used to be one or two Charismatics in the congregation quietly doing their own thing. I have visited other churches from time to time which have not emphasised charismatic gifts, but have used them in the background. Sometimes these have been more faithful and effective churches than the ones that made a specticle out of using the Holy Spirit every week.

It is better to use what you have and faithfully love God than to yearn for that which has not forgiven and try and convince everyone that you have. We can all worship in Spirit and truth without talking in tounges or performing miracles. A regular prayer life, bible study, church attendance and whitness are probably as good as any other ways to worship.

It is better to use ALL that God has given us because to do any less is to aline ourselves with the servant who hid his talent due to fear.

[The Midge]

It is better to use ALL that God has given us because to do any less is to aline ourselves with the servant who hid his talent due to fear.

No matter how inappropriate the situation?
No matter if more harm is done than good?
When their use does not bring glory to God.

The Charismatic gifts are tools to be used for the advance of the kingdom. We have to become craftsmen who use these at the right time in the right way.

Also beware fo fakes and forgeries.

[stumpsitting101]

If this makes any sense:
"The just shall live by faith" not presumption.
It is sad that many in the Church today, both Charismatic and Traditional, operate in presumption rather that in Faith. Which generally leads to the extremes on either end.
Ken

[SpiritPsalmist]

No matter how inappropriate the situation?
No matter if more harm is done than good?
When their use does not bring glory to God.

The Charismatic gifts are tools to be used for the advance of the kingdom. We have to become craftsmen who use these at the right time in the right way.

Also beware fo fakes and forgeries.

True. . .we need to "learn" to become craftsman. However, one does not learn a craft well without making some mistakes along the way. We should be more patient with one another and more willing to train when we can but we are to never jump all over someone for making a mistake and then refusing to let them minister due to that mistake or any future mistake. We're also, IMO, not to jump on them immediately. We should allow the Holy Spirt to talk to them about things.

I know this is how I have learned many things spiritual. I had lot's of examples in church to follow, but when first starting out I was not perfect at it. . .I still don't think I'm perfect at it. :) But vary rarely did someone with the authority say anything. . . because they did not need to. The Holy Spirit had done the job first and I learned to hear His voice better that way too.

Now if I had continued in the error, that would have been different. . .but I did not.

As far as God is concerned, He is the Master Redeemer. For the one who is trusting in Him, He can completely take a good action in an inappropriate situation and turn it to good. That does not mean that the person does not need to learn when and how. Nor does it mean that they caused more harm than good. Scripture says, God works ALL things together for GOOD to those who love Him. And I am not responsible for bringing Glory to God. . .I am responsible for making myself available to Him. . .He is in charge of bringing the Glory.

I obey as best I know how. God is in charge of the rest. If I need correction there are those who know me and who I am submissive to who will correct me. And I do the same for those who are under my instruction.

God says mercy triumphs over justice. We need to be merciful. And that does not include calling each other names or stopping people from learning to obey His voice just because they are not as skilled a craftsman as others believe they should be.

[The Midge]

Absolutely Quaffer.

What is needed is a servant heart and humilty when using any gift, be it natural talent or supernatural work of the Holy Spirit. We are all human and make mistakes. When these are absent forgiveness and healing can not flow. Love covers a multitude of sins.

[MikeMcK]

In your word, what would qualify a charasmatic church from a baptist, or a presbyterian or any other run o' the mill congrigation?
Hey, EJO, you need to be a little more specific. There are baptist churches and presbyterian churches that are charismatic churches.

[Heinrich]

Did you know you get Catholic charismatic churches?

Anyways as I understand Charismatic more has todo with P&W ect. The "atmosphere" maybe?

Then Pentecostal is when the things of the Spirit are taught. Most churches don't go under the Pentecostal label but is possibly part of them.

[altya]

This stuff is very confusing to me. I don’t know what I am anymore because I have been in so many churches. I am now Charismatic church love to visit Presbyterian and PentecostalChurches, to tell the truth I don’t know what make them different from each other. But what I do know is that I am Born-again, Spirit-filled, Bible believing, Sin hating, God fearing and demon chasing Christian

[SpiritPsalmist]

This stuff is very confusing to me. I don’t know what I am anymore because I have been in so many churches. I am now Charismatic church love to visit Presbyterian and PentecostalChurches, to tell the truth I don’t know what make them different from each other. But what I do know is that I am Born-again, Spirit-filled, Bible believing, Sin hating, God fearing and demon chasing ChristianI know what you mean Altya,

When I was younger I would go to church with my mother to the Baptist church. Then, my praternal Grandparents, whom I spent a lot of time with were Penticostal Church of God. Somewhere in there both my parents decided to go to the Penticostal Holiness Church.

Around age 12 we started going to the Assembly's of God. I was in the AG until sometime in my 20's when directed by God went into Vineyard Christian Fellowship. I was 10 years in Vineyard and loved it.

When I moved to Florida there was no Vinyard close enough so I went back into the AG. Since then I have left and now I'm in a non-denominationl which is somewhere between Penticostal/Charasmatic/WOF.

I, like you, am just a born again, blood washed, Spirit filled, testifing, overcoming, sin hating, devil chasing, child of the King. :) Did ya ever hear that song by Carman? :angel:

[altya]

Yes and I LOVE the song

[AlabamaMan]

/me agrees with Altya and Quaffer...

I am the same way...

[didaskalos]

Doctrine is just the clothing we wear so as to distinguish us from others. True faith is of the heart and very often does not resemble the outer layer that is seen by the world.
A couple truths:
As born again believers, nothing in my spirit contradicts what is in your spirit. All the differences are outward and superficial. Our clothing may be different, (I am baptist, you are pentecostal etc) but inwardly we only differ in quantity of revelation.. not quality.
By quality of revelation, I mean we may differ from each other in that you have received revelation about tongues or healing or faith, whereas I may not have received these things. When I do receive this revelation, it will be the same.
As a born again believer, you do not have any false beliefs in your heart. Everything in your heart is from God and is absolutely true. All differences exist in the outward, soulish level. We just wear different clothing.

[Scot]

The thing that sets the charismatic/pentecostal churches apart from others is that they still believe in further revelation.

God tells us in Rev. 22 that His Word is finished and we're not supposed to add to it.

These churches do this through their visions, dreams, tongues, etc. If these things are from God then they are equal to scripture and should be obeyed and studied like scripture.

In other words these churches have a wider authority than the Bible alone. They just haven't written it down in a book. They have the Bible plus whatever they have recieved in a dream, vision, tongue, etc.

Scot

[TasManOfGod]

This is a good outline of what is a Charimatic church:
http://www.victorylifechurch.org/pdf/what_is_a_charismatic_church.pdf (http://www.victorylifechurch.org/pd...atic_church.pdf)

Blessing
Tas

[LeeS]

The thing that sets the charismatic/pentecostal churches apart from others is that they still believe in further revelation.

God tells us in Rev. 22 that His Word is finished and we're not supposed to add to it.

These churches do this through their visions, dreams, tongues, etc. If these things are from God then they are equal to scripture and should be obeyed and studied like scripture.

In other words these churches have a wider authority than the Bible alone. They just haven't written it down in a book. They have the Bible plus whatever they have recieved in a dream, vision, tongue, etc.

Scot
Where do you get this definition of revelation? It most certaintly is NOT correct. When most Charasmatic's say they received a new revelation they are saying they now understand something they previously did not. That is not adding on to scripture. These revelations must go along with scripture or it is not from God. And as far as your verse in Revelation, it's referring to "that" vision that God had John writing down. The Bible was not in book form at the time so it could not have been referring to the Bible as we know it today.

It appears that you are not Charasmatic so please refer to this forums rules regarding posting by non-Charasmatics.