mont974x4
7th December 2006, 11:30 AM
Below is a passage from Daniel quoted from 3 diferent versions. I know the purpose of the passage is not to say that there are angels assigned to individual nations but it does seem to give that impression.
I understand it doesn't say that there is an angel asisgned to every nation or region but is it possible?
This isn't for a debate, I just thought it would be fun to look at and discuss.
Thoughts? Any other relevant passages?
YLT
Dan 10:13 `And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;
Dan 10:14 and I have come to cause thee to understand that which doth happen to thy people in the latter end of the days, for yet the vision is after days.
Dan 10:15 `And when he speaketh with me about these things, I have set my face toward the earth, and have been silent;
Dan 10:16 and lo, as the manner of the sons of men, he is striking against my lips, and I open my mouth, and I speak, and say unto him who is standing over-against me: My lord, by the appearance turned have been my pangs against me, and I have retained no power.
Dan 10:17 And how is the servant of this my lord able to speak with this my lord? as for me, henceforth there remaineth in me no power, yea, breath hath not been left in me.
Dan 10:18 `And he addeth, and striketh against me, as the appearance of a man, and strengtheneth me,
Dan 10:19 and he saith: Do not fear, O man greatly desired, peace to thee, be strong, yea, be strong; and when he speaketh with me, I have strengthened myself, and I say, Let my lord speak, for thou hast strengthened me.
Dan 10:20 And he saith, Hast thou known why I have come unto thee? and now I turn back to fight with the head of Persia; yea, I am going forth, and lo, the head of Javan hath come;
Dan 10:21 but I declare to thee that which is noted down in the Writing of Truth, and there is not one strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Michael your head.
ASV
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days; for the vision is yet for many days:
Dan 10:15 and when he had spoken unto me according to these words, I set my face toward the ground, and was dumb.
Dan 10:16 And, behold, one in the likeness of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by reason of the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I retain no strength.
Dan 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither was there breath left in me.
Dan 10:18 Then there touched me again one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me.
Dan 10:19 And he said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he spake unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I am come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I go forth, lo, the prince of Greece shall come.
Dan 10:21 But I will tell thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me against these, but Michael your prince.
KJV w/Strong's numbers
Dan 10:13 But the prince8269 of the kingdom4438 of Persia6539 withstood5975, 5048 me one259 and twenty6242 days:3117 but, lo,2009 Michael,4317 one259 of the chief7223 princes,8269 came935 to help5826 me; and I589 remained3498 there8033 with681 the kings4428 of Persia.6539
Dan 10:14 Now I am come935 to make thee understand995 (853) what834 shall befall7136 thy people5971 in the latter319 days:3117 for3588 yet5750 the vision2377 is for many days.3117
Dan 10:15 And when he had spoken1696 such428 words1697 unto5973 me, I set5414 my face6440 toward the ground,776 and I became dumb.481
Dan 10:16 And, behold,2009 one like the similitude1823 of the sons1121 of men120 touched5060, 5921 my lips:8193 then I opened6605 my mouth,6310 and spoke,1696 and said559 unto413 him that stood5975 before5048 me, O my lord,113 by the vision4758 my sorrows6735 are turned2015 upon5921 me, and I have retained6113 no3808 strength.3581
Dan 10:17 For how1963 can3201 the servant5650 of this2088 my lord113 talk1696 with5973 this2088 my lord?113 for as for me,589 straightway4480, 6258 there remained5975 no3808 strength3581 in me, neither3808 is there breath5397 left7604 in me.
Dan 10:18 Then there came again3584 and touched5060 me one like the appearance4758 of a man,120 and he strengthened2388 me,
Dan 10:19 And said,559 O man376 greatly beloved,2530 fear3372 not:408 peace7965 be unto thee, be strong,2388 yea, be strong.2388 And when he had spoken1696 unto5973 me, I was strengthened,2388 and said,559 Let my lord113 speak;1696 for3588 thou hast strengthened2388 me.
Dan 10:20 Then said559 he, Knowest3045 thou wherefore4100 I come935 unto413 thee? and now6258 will I return7725 to fight3898 with5973 the prince8269 of Persia:6539 and when I589 am gone forth,3318 lo,2009 the prince8269 of Greece3120 shall come.935
Dan 10:21 But61 I will show5046 thee (853) that which is noted7559 in the Scripture3791 of truth:571 and there is none369, 259 that holdeth2388 with5973 me in5921 these things,428 but3588, 518 Michael4317 your prince.8269
I understand it doesn't say that there is an angel asisgned to every nation or region but is it possible?
This isn't for a debate, I just thought it would be fun to look at and discuss.
Thoughts? Any other relevant passages?
YLT
Dan 10:13 `And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;
Dan 10:14 and I have come to cause thee to understand that which doth happen to thy people in the latter end of the days, for yet the vision is after days.
Dan 10:15 `And when he speaketh with me about these things, I have set my face toward the earth, and have been silent;
Dan 10:16 and lo, as the manner of the sons of men, he is striking against my lips, and I open my mouth, and I speak, and say unto him who is standing over-against me: My lord, by the appearance turned have been my pangs against me, and I have retained no power.
Dan 10:17 And how is the servant of this my lord able to speak with this my lord? as for me, henceforth there remaineth in me no power, yea, breath hath not been left in me.
Dan 10:18 `And he addeth, and striketh against me, as the appearance of a man, and strengtheneth me,
Dan 10:19 and he saith: Do not fear, O man greatly desired, peace to thee, be strong, yea, be strong; and when he speaketh with me, I have strengthened myself, and I say, Let my lord speak, for thou hast strengthened me.
Dan 10:20 And he saith, Hast thou known why I have come unto thee? and now I turn back to fight with the head of Persia; yea, I am going forth, and lo, the head of Javan hath come;
Dan 10:21 but I declare to thee that which is noted down in the Writing of Truth, and there is not one strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Michael your head.
ASV
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me: and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days; for the vision is yet for many days:
Dan 10:15 and when he had spoken unto me according to these words, I set my face toward the ground, and was dumb.
Dan 10:16 And, behold, one in the likeness of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by reason of the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I retain no strength.
Dan 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither was there breath left in me.
Dan 10:18 Then there touched me again one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me.
Dan 10:19 And he said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he spake unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I am come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I go forth, lo, the prince of Greece shall come.
Dan 10:21 But I will tell thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me against these, but Michael your prince.
KJV w/Strong's numbers
Dan 10:13 But the prince8269 of the kingdom4438 of Persia6539 withstood5975, 5048 me one259 and twenty6242 days:3117 but, lo,2009 Michael,4317 one259 of the chief7223 princes,8269 came935 to help5826 me; and I589 remained3498 there8033 with681 the kings4428 of Persia.6539
Dan 10:14 Now I am come935 to make thee understand995 (853) what834 shall befall7136 thy people5971 in the latter319 days:3117 for3588 yet5750 the vision2377 is for many days.3117
Dan 10:15 And when he had spoken1696 such428 words1697 unto5973 me, I set5414 my face6440 toward the ground,776 and I became dumb.481
Dan 10:16 And, behold,2009 one like the similitude1823 of the sons1121 of men120 touched5060, 5921 my lips:8193 then I opened6605 my mouth,6310 and spoke,1696 and said559 unto413 him that stood5975 before5048 me, O my lord,113 by the vision4758 my sorrows6735 are turned2015 upon5921 me, and I have retained6113 no3808 strength.3581
Dan 10:17 For how1963 can3201 the servant5650 of this2088 my lord113 talk1696 with5973 this2088 my lord?113 for as for me,589 straightway4480, 6258 there remained5975 no3808 strength3581 in me, neither3808 is there breath5397 left7604 in me.
Dan 10:18 Then there came again3584 and touched5060 me one like the appearance4758 of a man,120 and he strengthened2388 me,
Dan 10:19 And said,559 O man376 greatly beloved,2530 fear3372 not:408 peace7965 be unto thee, be strong,2388 yea, be strong.2388 And when he had spoken1696 unto5973 me, I was strengthened,2388 and said,559 Let my lord113 speak;1696 for3588 thou hast strengthened2388 me.
Dan 10:20 Then said559 he, Knowest3045 thou wherefore4100 I come935 unto413 thee? and now6258 will I return7725 to fight3898 with5973 the prince8269 of Persia:6539 and when I589 am gone forth,3318 lo,2009 the prince8269 of Greece3120 shall come.935
Dan 10:21 But61 I will show5046 thee (853) that which is noted7559 in the Scripture3791 of truth:571 and there is none369, 259 that holdeth2388 with5973 me in5921 these things,428 but3588, 518 Michael4317 your prince.8269