"Plymouth" brethren?

[Mick116]

Anyone on here belong to the so-called "Plymouth" brethren? "Open", or "closed"/"exclusive"? Any experiences, whether positive or negative?

I attended an "open" assembly for about 5 years, between 1997 and 2001 (I still regularly attend a Bible study group with them). I am grateful for the nuturing I received in the Christian faith amongst these believers.

[TwinCrier]

My Sunday School teacher has spoken of the Plymouth Brethren as he grew up in Goshen IN where they are prevelent. He says that except for their pacifism, he finds them to be wonderful Christian folk.
You may find more people who know of them in the anabaptist forum.

[Mick116]

Historically, there is no link between the Anabaptists and the "Plymouth" brethren, except as far as they share similar principles, such as believer's baptism (well, this is the case with the "Open Brethren"; the "Exclusives" (i.e. "Taylorites") practice household baptism, including infants).

Also, many Plymouth brethren are not necessarily or fundamentally pacifist, except to the extent of any Christian denomination.

[Jim1927]

The Plymouth Brethren were started in England out of the Church of England in 1831. They have nothig to do with the anabaptists.

They were first formed as Irvingites under the leadership of Edward Irving. I won't go into the details of this organization, but John Darby differed in that he did not want an organization at all. Despite Darby's wishes, the Plymouth Brethren were formed. They have no paid clergy, multiple elders and lay leadership, closed meetings and closed communion. Eventually they opened the gospel halls to gospel preaching at a special service just to reach the unsaved.

Dispensationalism had its beginning with the PB's and they eventually adopted the Scofield Bible and Notes.

To-day they have both open and closed PB's. The assembly I attended in London, in the 1940's had men and women sitting on opposite sides. When I left the Church of England, I attended the PB's for two years and was baptized as a PB. When I decided on ministry in 1945, I went to the Baptist Union.

By the way, the PB's were never pacifists and believed very much their obligation to King and country, serving in the Armed Forces.

Cheers,

Jim

[JM]

In H. A. Ironside's book titled, "A Historical Sketch of the Brethren Movement" he wrote the Brethren movement had it's spark around 1812-1820 and was not part of Irving's group, however, Darby was loosely associated with them for a short while before he became linked with Brethrenism. Edward Cronin, Edward Wilson, H. Hutchingson, William Stokes, J. Parnell, and a little latter Lord Congleton, J. G. Bellett and John N. Darby are responsible for what we see today with it's starting point around 1825.

If you'd like to learn more see www.stempublishing.com (http://www.stempublishing.com)

[Jim1927]

J.N. Darby, in fact, withdrew from the majority of PB's in England because he disliked the formalization within.
It must have been a strange spark to have started so early. The best records we have from the original assembly is 1831. J.N. Darby was born in 1800.

I don't know where Harry Ironside would get his information.

Cheers,

Jim

[JM]

J.N. Darby, in fact, withdrew from the majority of PB's in England because he disliked the formalization within.
It must have been a strange spark to have started so early. The best records we have from the original assembly is 1831. J.N. Darby was born in 1800.

I don't know where Harry Ironside would get his information.

Cheers,

Jim

Darby was a late comer to the meetings that spawned Brethrenism. www.bbcan.org has a good library, I've ordered from them before and they're very friendly, easy to deal with. Brethrenism was a reaction to wide spread liberalism of the time and Ironside writes of similar movements in New York and India.

jm

[Jim1927]

Thanks JM,

In fact, I am quite familiar with that "mission" as they call it.

As a matter of fact, I have attended the same PB hall where Hank and Pat Blok attend in Kingston...I live just 40 miles from Kingston.

Cheers,

Jim

[JM]

Hey brother Jim, I decided to use my initials out of respect for what I've learn from the early Brethren who used there initials to sign much of what they wrote.

:amen:

Good talking with you brother, God bless.

jm

[Jim1927]

You mean like C.H. M, the prolific writer? Now we know him as Macintosh.
You are aware that the Late F.F. Bruce was also a PB. He was one of the most brilliant of theologians and writers of this age.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

[Iosias]

Anyone on here belong to the so-called "Plymouth" brethren?

I used to belong to an Open brethren assembly. They were friendly, knew their Bible well...it was just a shame they were Arminian Baptists!

[Iosias]

They were first formed as Irvingites under the leadership of Edward Irving.

I am not sure where you got that information brother.

A brethren bookshop: http://www.chaptertwobooks.org.uk/

[Jim1927]

It is common knowledge amongst PB's in the UK......at least when I lived there.

Cheers,

Jim

[Mick116]

I don't think it is accurate to say that the early brethren were "formed... under the leadership of Edward Irving". As far as I recall, the denomination that emerged from Irving's ministry and teachings (not under his direct leadership, though) was the Catholic Apostolic Church, later reformed as the New Apostolic Church, among others.

As far as I know, the only contact between the early brethren (J. N. Darby, in particular) and Edward Irving was common attendance of a prayer meeting/study group. I think (I could be mistaken) that this is where dispensational premillennial theology (common amongst both the Brethren and the "Irvingite" Apostolic churches) was first formulated (REformulated?).

Anyone more knowledgeable about this, please correct me where I'm wrong. I can't remember my reference for this, unfortunately.

[Jim1927]

Mick..Please remember that I said the PB movement came out of the Church of England. Almost all the first pB's were Anglicans, so there would be some leanings along these lines until they bestablished a meeting in Plymouth, where there remains a PB Gospel Hall....the original. This is where my history comes from,,and I have since confirmed what I said in two Church History books, A.H. Newman, turn of the last century and a Lutheran historian, Lars P. Qualben 1933...Both reputable historians. Whilst Edward Irving did form the Catholic Apostolic Church (think Anglican here) and the Darbyites, as they were first known, Irving and Darby were very close in fellowship. Darby's main objection to Irving was not his Catholic (universal) Apostolic Church in doctrines, but rather the fact that he formed a church at all. Darby even objected to the formation of the Plymouth Brethren for the same reason. Both were set up based on the idea that the judgement was at hand, and hence the great emphasis on the Apocalypse....eventually dispensationalism in the PB's and the rapture, etc.

I think the name Catholic Apostolic Church throws people into great confusion..These people were into tongues and other pentecostal concepts, and not to be confused with Roman Catholicism. The word "catholic" is not so foreign in Anglican circles.

At any rate, there are a number of ideas bantered around, and each conflicts with the other. Since we were not there, we can't be absolute. Just go with what makes sense to our own minds and the surrounding history. None of it compares with the PB's of to-day, except the dispensationalism.

Cheers,

Jim

[Iosias]

Whilst Edward Irving did form the Catholic Apostolic Church (think Anglican here)

Err lets not think Anglican here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Apostolic_Church)!

A. http://www.schneid9.de/pdf/neatby.pdf
B. History of the Brethren by N. L. Noel
C. http://withchrist.org/MJS/pbs.htm
D. http://pages.prodigy.net/sathi/ourhistory.html

[Iosias]

I don't think it is accurate to say that the early brethren were "formed... under the leadership of Edward Irving". As far as I recall, the denomination that emerged from Irving's ministry and teachings (not under his direct leadership, though) was the Catholic Apostolic Church, later reformed as the New Apostolic Church, among others.

As far as I know, the only contact between the early brethren (J. N. Darby, in particular) and Edward Irving was common attendance of a prayer meeting/study group. I think (I could be mistaken) that this is where dispensational premillennial theology (common amongst both the Brethren and the "Irvingite" Apostolic churches) was first formulated (REformulated?).

Anyone more knowledgeable about this, please correct me where I'm wrong. I can't remember my reference for this, unfortunately.

You are correct :)