Fals Converts???

[Seeker of the Truth]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Over the weekend, my sister, her boyfriend and myself attended "The Way of the Master" www.thewayofthemaster.com (http://www.christianforums.com/www.thewayofthemaster.com). Which was co-led by Kirk Camero (Growing Pains) whom is an evangelist. Anyway, during the "seminar", one of the speakers randomly taught on False Converts. He said that one must repent and then put his faith in Christ to be saved. You do not simply say a prayer and ask Christ into your heart because that's not Biblical (the heart thing). I believe with all of my heart that I put my faith in Christ when i was around the age of 8. Now, at 8 years old, I wasn't selling drugs, cussing, selling my body, or any other sin like that. So, I don't believe that I repented of my sins, considering I haven't committed any. Now, because I didn't repent of my sins, does that mean I'm not saved?

I tried praying but nothing seems to go through. I've read some scripture and talked with my family but I keep coming back to my original argument. "I put my complete faith in Christ as a child and as the years have gone by, I've grown greatly as a Christian." < That's my testimony.

I can't seem to fully accept either argument and would love to hear from you all. As you read this please, I ask, that you would pray for me as I search for answers.

Your Brother (I think),

CJ

[Matthan]

You are doing a great job in your search. Don't you see that your asking about not repenting as age 8 clearly shows you have already repented of your sins and are trying not to sin. That is all we Christians can do. We will still sin, but that is because we are sinners one and all.

Remember that our salvation, while it is guaranteed by God (and He always keeps His promises) and is therefore a real possession, is not actually given to us until we die and pass from life to life eternal. We are justified now by imputation, but we are not now infused (already actually justified, or sinless) with that justification.

It may be a hard thing to grasp, but just be faithful and know that when you die you will not know the sting of death.

I'm sorry that I am not clearer with this response, but it seems my mind is shutting down for some reason (probably not enough sleep). Oh well, us old timers get that way, don't you know!

Matthan

[Seeker of the Truth]

You are doing a great job in your search. Don't you see that your asking about not repenting as age 8 clearly shows you have already repented of your sins and are trying not to sin. That is all we Christians can do. We will still sin, but that is because we are sinners one and all.

Remember that our salvation, while it is guaranteed by God (and He always keeps His promises) and is therefore a real possession, is not actually given to us until we die and pass from life to life eternal. We are justified now by imputation, but we are not now infused (already actually justified, or sinless) with that justification.

It may be a hard thing to grasp, but just be faithful and know that when you die you will not know the sting of death.

I'm sorry that I am not clearer with this response, but it seems my mind is shutting down for some reason (probably not enough sleep). Oh well, us old timers get that way, don't you know!

Matthan
well, thank you so very much matthan. your post helps greatly!

[mont974x4]

An unbeleiever, non-brother if you wish, would not be concerned about his salvation status..simply because tehy are blind to such matters.

As to the asking Him into your heart issue? I think people use the verse Rev 3:20 as a basis for this thought...coupled with the idea that it is our heart (internal) that matters most since we can;t earn our salvation through our own works. Don't think of it as a literal asking HIm into your heart act but as acknowledging that is Him in us and us in Him that matters.


God bless, brother.

[mlqurgw]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Over the weekend, my sister, her boyfriend and myself attended "The Way of the Master" www.thewayofthemaster.com (http://www.christianforums.com/www.thewayofthemaster.com). Which was co-led by Kirk Camero (Growing Pains) whom is an evangelist. Anyway, during the "seminar", one of the speakers randomly taught on False Converts. He said that one must repent and then put his faith in Christ to be saved. You do not simply say a prayer and ask Christ into your heart because that's not Biblical (the heart thing). I believe with all of my heart that I put my faith in Christ when i was around the age of 8. Now, at 8 years old, I wasn't selling drugs, cussing, selling my body, or any other sin like that. So, I don't believe that I repented of my sins, considering I haven't committed any. Now, because I didn't repent of my sins, does that mean I'm not saved?

I tried praying but nothing seems to go through. I've read some scripture and talked with my family but I keep coming back to my original argument. "I put my complete faith in Christ as a child and as the years have gone by, I've grown greatly as a Christian." < That's my testimony.

I can't seem to fully accept either argument and would love to hear from you all. As you read this please, I ask, that you would pray for me as I search for answers.

Your Brother (I think),

CJA couple of things; if you had no sin to repent of at age 8 what did you put your faith in Christ for?

Now this is the important part so listen up; Far too many people look back at an experience they had sometime in the past. That is having faith in an experience rather than faith in Christ. The question is do you now trust Christ not did you then. What we experienced before and what we did before is not the basis of our assurance. Paul was about as righteous as a man could get but he said he forgets those thing which were behind and presses forward toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. He said he counts all his former righteousness as dung that he may win Christ and be found in Him. Salvation is a daily walk with Christ by faith not a looking back. If you trust Christ alone right now you are saved and it doesn't matter if you were then or not.

[Seeker of the Truth]

A couple of things; if you had no sin to repent of at age 8 what did you put your faith in Christ for?

Now this is the important part so listen up; Far too many people look back at an experience they had sometime in the past. That is having faith in an experience rather than faith in Christ. The question is do you now trust Christ not did you then. What we experienced before and what we did before is not the basis of our assurance. Paul was about as righteous as a man could get but he said he forgets those thing which were behind and presses forward toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. He said he counts all his former righteousness as dung that he may win Christ and be found in Him. Salvation is a daily walk with Christ by faith not a looking back. If you trust Christ alone right now you are saved and it doesn't matter if you were then or not.

well, I knew I was a sinner, although at the time i hadn't any sins that i knew of.

i do believe now that i have grown into my faith. at the age of 8 God granted me salvation and today i've grown into that, if that makes any sense.

i want to say that my faith is like a tree, the limbs being things i've learned along the way, my faith as a tree was but a seed but i now see it as fully blossomed oak that hopefully will never fall.

[HumbleMan]

You may not have lead a sinful life at 8, but you (and I, and everyone) still had a sinful nature at that age. Did you repent because you knew you were a sinner (even if you hadn't committed any) and wanted to lead a Christ like life?

But as others have said, it's bothering you now, so something back then must have taken hold.

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I'm a big fan of Way of the Master as many on here already know. I have watched the TV show since episode one and heard almost every radio show since day one. If you go to www.wayofthemasterradio.com (http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com) you can download free podcasts. I like the radio edition even better then the TV edition.

Ok, now on to more important things, your salvation. I'm going to post a paper I just wrote and already posted once on this web site in a different forum. I can't answer the question of if your saved or not but you can know if you are saved. The Bible tells us that 1 John 5:13. Please read this paper and know that you can be confident in your salvation. Please ask me any questions you may have. You're with Christian brothers and sisters here that love each other and watch out for each other. By the way, by posting this paper I'm not accusing anyone here of not being saved. Only God can do that. This paper is posted with the utmost love for others.

Are You A Christian?

Now the reason for this article is my concern that there probably are many people that think they are Christian but really are not. I believe it is important that we all, this includes myself, check ourselves to make sure we really are saved (1 John 5:13).

Things that don't make you a Christian:

1. Being a good person. So many people think they will go to Heaven because they don't really do many bad things. That doesn't matter. If you ever looked or even thought about a person with lust you have committed adultery (Matthew 5:28). If you ever hated someone you have committed murder (Matthew 5:22). If you ever stolen anything, even something small, you are a thief. To top things off here if you even break one commandment you are guilty of breaking them all (James 2:10)! God says there is no one that does good, no, not even one (Romans 3:12). Our "good" works are like filthy rags to him (Isaiah 64:6).

2. Being raised by a Christian family. All because you may have saved family members doesn't mean you get a free ride. I can promise you that you won't find a verse in the Bible to support that kind of thinking.

3. Going to church and/or getting baptized and/or making a confession to a priest. No works will get you into heaven. It is a gift of God so no one can boast God tells us (Ephesians 2:9).

I'm sure some of you by now are thinking "So what does make someone a Christian?". This list is just one item long.

1. You must trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior (Romans 5:1).

I don't want to just leave it at that since people sometimes read some bizarre things into statements like that. Some people may just simply not know what that means.

Jesus who is God took human form. He lived a sinless life (Hebrews 4:15). Something we all know we can't do (Romans 3:23). He paid the penalty for us by dying on the cross (Ephesians 1:7). Ever since Adam and Eve first sinned we have all been tainted (Romans 5:14). This pain and suffering in the world is because of our sin. Even the earth has been effected by sin (Romans 8:22). The great thing is things will be made the way God intended. There will be no fighting or cancer. We won't have people starving or worrying about paying their bills. We won't be messing up in life like we do now.

This may sound too easy, well think about it. To be saved you have to deny that your good works won't help you to get saved. You have to say I'm sorry of my sin and Jesus, you are my Lord (Luke 13:3). That means there has to be a very humble heart involved otherwise a person will never be saved (James 4:6). Being humble doesn't come easy in this culture.

I hope people take what I have to say at heart. If I was given the choice to lead a person to belief in a young earth or lead a person to knowing Christ as their Lord and Savior I would always pick the second choice.



Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Over the weekend, my sister, her boyfriend and myself attended "The Way of the Master" www.thewayofthemaster.com (http://www.christianforums.com/www.thewayofthemaster.com). Which was co-led by Kirk Camero (Growing Pains) whom is an evangelist. Anyway, during the "seminar", one of the speakers randomly taught on False Converts. He said that one must repent and then put his faith in Christ to be saved. You do not simply say a prayer and ask Christ into your heart because that's not Biblical (the heart thing). I believe with all of my heart that I put my faith in Christ when i was around the age of 8. Now, at 8 years old, I wasn't selling drugs, cussing, selling my body, or any other sin like that. So, I don't believe that I repented of my sins, considering I haven't committed any. Now, because I didn't repent of my sins, does that mean I'm not saved?

I tried praying but nothing seems to go through. I've read some scripture and talked with my family but I keep coming back to my original argument. "I put my complete faith in Christ as a child and as the years have gone by, I've grown greatly as a Christian." < That's my testimony.

I can't seem to fully accept either argument and would love to hear from you all. As you read this please, I ask, that you would pray for me as I search for answers.

Your Brother (I think),

CJ

[RED that's ME]

Even though you haven't done several sins like murder, selling drugs, your body, Scripture tells us we're all born with a sin nature.
At 8, I'm sure there were times you got mad at your parents or others. (sin) If you ever disobeyed your parents (sin) you get the point. A lot of kids are guilting of coveting. (wanting what another kid has) (sin)

Most children don't remember sins they have committed but will agree to some basic sins that children do. Christ came to die for all sins whether it's telling a lie, disobeying parents or murder.

When a child or adult understands, they are a sinner who has sin against God and repents they become a christian no matter what age. :)

I was saved at a young age too. :) Satan tries to tell us sometimes that we were too young to understand what we are doing. If you truly meant what you did at 8 years old... (repent of your sins and give your life to Christ) then you are a christian and you don't need to let Satan steal that victory from you. :)

I've seen many kids & teens sometimes adults have doubts about their salvation experience. There's NOTHING wrong with making sure and nailing it down. :)

[DiscipleOfIAm]

Sounds like the devil is trying to place doubt in you. He does this from time to time. When you're not a believer or a Christian, he has no reason to mess with you. But, you are a believer, so he is doing all he can do to trip you up.

You're fine!

[HypoTypoSis]

spcucj,

Matthan, in his opening statement of post 2, quite likely is on the right approach; I think the correct issue to discuss revolves around identifying and answering the following singular question:

Do you possess the mind of Christ--the conscience of the indwelling guiding, leading, teaching Holy Spirit?

HypoTypoSis

[HypoTypoSis]

Incidentally, the term, "false converts" is a contradiction in terms, there is no such thing.

[TwinCrier]

... I wasn't selling drugs, cussing, selling my body, or any other sin like that. ...
I think a false conversion can happen when one doesn't truly believe they have sinned. We are all sinners in our heart. I think the reason children throw tantrums is they don't have the power to commit the homicide they feel inclined to at that moment. There are those who confess to be christian because it will benefit them in some social or financial way. That is not based on faith in Christ at all.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I think a false conversion can happen when one doesn't truly believe they have sinned. We are all sinners in our heart. I think the reason children throw tantrums is they don't have the power to commit the homicide they feel inclined to at that moment. There are those who confess to be christian because it will benefit them in some social or financial way. That is not based on faith in Christ at all.

Thatis a hilarious way of looking at it!! I think my children would committ homicide if they had the power sometimes ^_^ And we definitely have some social and financial benefiting Christians. :thumbsup:

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I think a false conversion can happen when one doesn't truly believe they have sinned. We are all sinners in our heart. I think the reason children throw tantrums is they don't have the power to commit the homicide they feel inclined to at that moment. There are those who confess to be christian because it will benefit them in some social or financial way. That is not based on faith in Christ at all.

That is a hilarious way of looking at it!! I think my children would committ homicide if they had the power sometimes ^_^ And we definitely have some social and financial benefiting Christians. :thumbsup:

[Tenorvoice]

I would not typically call them "false converts" persay, but I would ask that you look back at the parable of the seeds/soil/soer. Matthew 13 that is

There is one "seed" The Word of God

One Soer, the one who is proclaiming the Word

but yet there are Four different types of soil.

The well traveled road, where satan snatches up the Word before it has a chance to sink in

The rocky soil, where they recieve the Word with joy, but because they have no foundation but its only for a short time when the afflictions of this world come against them, and it leaves them quickly.

The THorny soil, where the Word is heard, but the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Then you have the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.


Now ONLY the last soil is the true believer. The other ones can be considered "false" believers, but if I were to have an opinion about it, the thorny soil is the one that can fool most (especailly me) with people.

The key is to look for the Fruit in their lives.

[HypoTypoSis]

Again...

There is no such thing as a "false conversion".

It is impossible to deceive God or to trick Jesus into believing someone is saved when, in reality, they are not.

Anyone who claims to be saved and does not possess the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is NOT "falsely converted".

To be "falsely converted" is just be another way of saying "falsely saved".

That is an impossibility.

They are simply not saved.

[jsimms615]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Over the weekend, my sister, her boyfriend and myself attended "The Way of the Master" www.thewayofthemaster.com (http://www.christianforums.com/www.thewayofthemaster.com). Which was co-led by Kirk Camero (Growing Pains) whom is an evangelist. Anyway, during the "seminar", one of the speakers randomly taught on False Converts. He said that one must repent and then put his faith in Christ to be saved. You do not simply say a prayer and ask Christ into your heart because that's not Biblical (the heart thing). I believe with all of my heart that I put my faith in Christ when i was around the age of 8. Now, at 8 years old, I wasn't selling drugs, cussing, selling my body, or any other sin like that. So, I don't believe that I repented of my sins, considering I haven't committed any. Now, because I didn't repent of my sins, does that mean I'm not saved?

I tried praying but nothing seems to go through. I've read some scripture and talked with my family but I keep coming back to my original argument. "I put my complete faith in Christ as a child and as the years have gone by, I've grown greatly as a Christian." < That's my testimony.

I can't seem to fully accept either argument and would love to hear from you all. As you read this please, I ask, that you would pray for me as I search for answers.

Your Brother (I think),

CJ
You would be the first 8 year old ever then who hasn't sinned! I think the point the program tries to make is that we must deal with our sins and ask for forgiveness for them. We have to do this not just one time, but daily as we seek to walk with God.
I wouldn't necessarily think you didn't make a legitimate decision back when you were 8, but you have also grown in your knowledge and understanding of what that original commitment now means. Part of walking with Jesus means that he is Lord and the things that don't please Him should not be a part of our lives.
Hope God gives you some peace about this soon.
J

[JPPT1974]

In walking with Christ, we turn down things
That we used to do as non-believers
Especially now that our lives belong to Christ
So that we may please Christ in deed and in word.

[Seeker of the Truth]

well, i honestly believe that i'm saved.. i feel God in me, at church, when i read His word, or anything that pertains to him.. i feel him..

thank you all for your replies, they've helped greatly!

[HypoTypoSis]

well, i honestly believe that i'm saved.. i feel God in me, at church, when i read His word, or anything that pertains to him.. i feel him..

thank you all for your replies, they've helped greatly!

Case closed! :thumbsup:

[thatyemayknow]

Brother,
Remember your faith must be in the promise God has given you. John 5:24 says if you hear and believe, you will not be under condemnation. Repent is a change of mind, so at the age of 8, when you heard the gospel, you made a decision to trust Gods promise. You had the freedom to not believe, but you believed. Thank the Lord that you did not go into many sins that others have. Undoubtedly, you were a sinner, because the Bible says all have sinned. If you hadn't sinned, you would not have needed a Savior. And if you have grown as a Christian, that is further evidence, because by your fruits it shows Christ is in you.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life......

[Seeker of the Truth]

Brother,
Remember your faith must be in the promise God has given you. John 5:24 says if you hear and believe, you will not be under condemnation. Repent is a change of mind, so at the age of 8, when you heard the gospel, you made a decision to trust Gods promise. You had the freedom to not believe, but you believed. Thank the Lord that you did not go into many sins that others have. Undoubtedly, you were a sinner, because the Bible says all have sinned. If you hadn't sinned, you would not have needed a Savior. And if you have grown as a Christian, that is further evidence, because by your fruits it shows Christ is in you.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life......
hehe, welcome to CF.

thanks for your post, but this "questioning" occurred 2 months ago :D

Yep...

[sneet58]

I became a Christian at a young age and came to a point in my life where I asked the same question. But then I realized that when I accepted Christ at 6 I gave my life to Christ and asked forgiveness of my sins as sincerely as any 6 yr old could possibly do. I KNOW that my experience was real regardless of my age and I know that Jesus knew my heart then as He does now. I am and you are truly saved.