A real eye opener for me

[GregoryTurner]

I just returned from a trip to Gainesville, FL(well actually a little town just outside called Archer) to attend and preach the funeral for my uncle. This was my first time to do this and had another Baptist preacher there to help me. My question is this...
How many Baptist preachers smoke?
I told me wife that I could smell cigarettes on him when he returned from talking with the funeral director. She told me that the majority of Baptist preachers she has ever met were also smokers. I was quite schocked actually. Could someone explain this to me please?
Thank you for your time...
g

[MrJim]

I've been around about a dozen (of varying flavors of baptist) and none of them smoked.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

The ones I know are so against it, they require all people who particpate in choir, Sunday School teachers, Bus ministers, etc to quit or step down from their positions.

[mlqurgw]

I am a Baptist preacher and I smoke a pipe. I have known many who smoke, though mostly from the South. I smoke because I enjoy it. I don't feel compelled to defend it as it isn't a sin. If I thought it was I wouldn't do it. Smoking has become the fad pariah of the day. While I would be careful to not cause a brother to fall or be offended because of poor teaching or weak faith I will not bow to legalists who make everything sin in order to make themselves judges. I have a question also, how many Baptist preachers do you know who over eat?

[DiscipleOfIAm]

I have a question also, how many Baptist preachers do you know who over eat?

A lot!!! :P Along with most Baptists in general! That's what we're known for, isn't it? Eating.

I'm sure this thread could turn into a whole debate about smoking being a sin or not. I hope that doesn't happen, but such is life here!

[DeaconDean]

I am a Baptist preacher and I smoke a pipe. I have known many who smoke, though mostly from the South. I smoke because I enjoy it. I don't feel compelled to defend it as it isn't a sin. If I thought it was I wouldn't do it. Smoking has become the fad pariah of the day. While I would be careful to not cause a brother to fall or be offended because of poor teaching or weak faith I will not bow to legalists who make everything sin in order to make themselves judges. I have a question also, how many Baptist preachers do you know who over eat?

As usual Brother, you instill words of wisdom here. I am a smoker. And have been for some 30 plus years. I see nothing in the Bible defining somking as a sin. And I am well aware of the passage of causing a fellow brother to stumble, so whenever I get the opportunity to preach, I will either smoke before I get to church, or after everybody has left. The whole idea of pastors not smoking goes all the way back to roughly the same time of the Prohibition. Most Southern Baptists are also dead set against drinking in any form. But does that make it a sin? In fact, up until the Prohibition, did you know that most Baptist churches used wine for communion? Prohibition changed a great deal of things. Keep up the good work mlqurgw.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[BigNorsk]

Just a for your info. Prohibition did not prohibit churches from using wine for services. Christian Brother's winery kept operating right through Prohibition. What got rid of the wine was the pietism and legalism that swept the country and produced the Prohibition.

Marv

[DeaconDean]

Just a for your info. Prohibition did not prohibit churches from using wine for services. Christian Brother's winery kept operating right through Prohibition. What got rid of the wine was the pietism and legalism that swept the country and produced the Prohibition.

Marv

Just a little FYI brother. I never said prohibition stopped churches from using wine. I said:

Prohibition changed a great deal of things.

From 1920 to 1933 the manufacture, distribution, import, export, and sale of alcoholic beverages was either restricted or illegal. Since the area in which I live in is often refered to as the "Bible Belt," most churches down south voted to abstain from alcohol with the communion permemantly. And it still is the predominate view in most Baptist churches throughout the South. And to a certain degree, pietism and legalism were driving factors in Prohibition.

The prohibition or "dry" movement began in the 1840s, spearheaded by pietistic religious denominations, especially the Methodists. After some success in the 1850s, the movement lost strength. It revived in the 1880s with the Woman's Christian Temperance Union and the Prohibition Party. After 1900 many states, especially in the South, enacted prohibition, along with many counties. Hostility to saloons and their political influence was characteristic of the Progressive Era. Supported by the anti-German mood of World War I, the Anti-Saloon League, working with both major parties, pushed a Constitutional amendment through Congress and the states, taking effect in 1920. From 1920 to 1933, the manufacture, sale, and transport of alcohol was prohibited in the United States. However, the private possession and consumption of alcohol was not prohibited. This was most commonly referred to as the Dry Law Nationwide prohibition was accomplished by means of the Eighteenth Amendment to the national Constitution (ratified January 16, 1919) and the Volstead Act (passed October 28, 1919). Prohibition began on January 16, 1920. The 18th amendment was repealed by the Twenty-First Amendment on December 5, 1933. The 18th Amendment is the only amendment to be repealed by another amendment of the Constitution. States have the right to restrict or ban the purchase and sale of alcohol; this has led to a patchwork of laws, in which alcohol may be legally sold in some but not all towns or counties within a particular state. Mississippi, which went dry in 1907, was the last state to repeal prohibition, in 1966. There are numerous "dry" counties or towns where no liquor is sold; even so liquor can be brought in for private consumption. The general phrase was "they take away our rights and they take away our booze".

Tradionally, smoking and drinking are frowned upon even to this day. The line of thought was: "Smoking and drinking go hand and hand with the Devil."

God Bless

Till all are one.

[country]

I am a Baptist preacher and I smoke a pipe. I have known many who smoke, though mostly from the South. I smoke because I enjoy it. I don't feel compelled to defend it as it isn't a sin. If I thought it was I wouldn't do it. Smoking has become the fad pariah of the day. While I would be careful to not cause a brother to fall or be offended because of poor teaching or weak faith I will not bow to legalists who make everything sin in order to make themselves judges. I have a question also, how many Baptist preachers do you know who over eat?

I agree. I've known a few that smoked myself.

Good to see you Greg :wave:

[GregoryTurner]

I agree. I've known a few that smoked myself.

Good to see you Greg :wave:
You too, my friend. I apologize for not being here much but we were in FL from Thursday til yesterday.

Brothers and sisters, I was not being down on anyone for smoking I was just wondering.

I myself enjoy cigars, mostly when playing golf. I do not have anything against drinking either, as long as it is not abused or lead to drunkeness.

Paul tells Timothy to use a little wine because it is good for the stomach. However, just as stated above, it is not good to drink in front of someone who used to be an alcoholic or smoke in front of someone who has lung cancer.

I would also like to note that I have known many people who have had lung cancer, enphyzema, etc. and have never smoked anything in their whole lives. If we look at smoking as being harmful to the temple of God as some people say, then I think that Christians need to also quit driving cars, trucks, vans, buses, riding in planes, quit driving golf carts to play golf. As these vehicles are just pollution and causing the same sicknesses as smoking.

Just little thoughts from a little person...

g

[RED that's ME]

The majority of pastors I know don't smoke. I've only seen one but he only was a *fill in* in small churches.

Just because the Bible doesn't say....Thou shalt not smoke doesn't mean that it's ok. The Bible don't say exactly about a lot of things like...Thou shalt not shoot up with
heroin or Thou shalt not cut/self harm, Thou shalt not look at porn on the internet. (Get the point)

What scripture does say is, our bodies are the temples of God and that we should take care of it. Smoking is NOT a good thing and hurts our bodies by doing it. It is also not a good testimony to others. Some people might say,*I have shared the gospel while (fill in the blank sin)* The truth is that more christians turn away people by their habits/sins.

As for drinking, my pastor has spent the last 3 weeks indepth preaching on it. A christian shouldn't drink and he showed how the *wine* in the OT was not the same alcohol % like it is today. He gave MUCHO scripture how that priest & kings were forbidden from consuming alcohol. Jesus didn't consume alcohol cause he is a king (King of Kings).
The wine for the stomach verse the fermentation was different. My pastor explained all of that and the difference. Wine is not the same now as it was then. The truth is about drinking is not being preached. Even many pastors haven't done an indepth study into drinking.

I'm hoping to upload his sermons to share with others here. :)

[Matthan]

Everything I have read here has been level-headed and without excessive human emotions. That is a wonderful thing, and I personally am humbled by this curtious yet potentially cantankerous discourse.

By the way, while I do not smoke, I do not care what others might do in that regard. It is their decision, and definitely not something for me to judge...

God bless all

Matthan

[mlqurgw]

The majority of pastors I know don't smoke. I've only seen one but he only was a *fill in* in small churches.

Just because the Bible doesn't say....Thou shalt not smoke doesn't mean that it's ok. The Bible don't say exactly about a lot of things like...Thou shalt not shoot up with
heroin or Thou shalt not cut/self harm, Thou shalt not look at porn on the internet. (Get the point)

What scripture does say is, our bodies are the temples of God and that we should take care of it. Smoking is NOT a good thing and hurts our bodies by doing it. It is also not a good testimony to others. Some people might say,*I have shared the gospel while (fill in the blank sin)* The truth is that more christians turn away people by their habits/sins.

As for drinking, my pastor has spent the last 3 weeks indepth preaching on it. A christian shouldn't drink and he showed how the *wine* in the OT was not the same alcohol % like it is today. He gave MUCHO scripture how that priest & kings were forbidden from consuming alcohol. Jesus didn't consume alcohol cause he is a king (King of Kings).
The wine for the stomach verse the fermentation was different. My pastor explained all of that and the difference. Wine is not the same now as it was then. The truth is about drinking is not being preached. Even many pastors haven't done an indepth study into drinking.

I'm hoping to upload his sermons to share with others here. :)
You must live according to the light given you. I have no problem with you not smoking or drinking if that is what you believe you should do. I just don't agree that it is sin. The passage in 1Cor. 6:19 is dealing with sexual sin. It has ben taken out of context and misused to speak against something it doesn't deal with at all. As far as wine goes I am sure your pastor is convinced that his arguments are true but in reallity they are fallacious. I have read and heard them all before and they are neither Biblical, though many passages are used, nor factual according to history. I have seen all those arguments decimated by truth but I will not say anything more as I do not wish to undermine your relationship with your pastor. I will simply say that I disagree with him.

[Flynmonkie]

I agree with DD and mlqurgw on this one.. But I cannot say it is a southern or Yankee thing...I have not really seen many that do smoke and it has been discouraged, HOWEVER, the southerners love their pipes and cigars..

I can say however BigNorsk is right on the money about the prejudice carried through the grape and the relation to the Catholic Church… leading to prohibition (But the apple was okey dokey!) But I will sit down and shut up now..

I too smoke, and I am not compelled it is a sin. I am however compelled that I don't want to anymore and it is a true pain in the butt to kick (BTW leave the gum alone when you try) But not compelled to try it right away – yet.

[Phileoeklogos]

I think this subject illustrates how caught up the church in the U.S. has become in the "externals", alot of people have been raised in this type of cultural Christianity.

I almost find it amusing that the folks that preach this type of legalism, when describing the "perfect" christian, i.e.. clean cut, well groomed, doesn't drink or smoke or play cards, etc, etc, do a very good job of describing the typical Mormon missionary.

We have a long history of this kind of thing, if you look back at some of the Holiness, and perfectionist movements in the 1800's, you'll see what Big Norsk was saying about things that lead up to the Prohibition.

The amazing part of this is that Baptists always tout that the Bible is their only rule for faith and practice, and then come out with the laundry list of the " don't do's ".

I'm not saying all Baptists are that way, but you know we have some that are.

btw, if the wine in the Bible was different than wine today, how did Noah get drunk?

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I am unaware of any Baptist pastors around here that smoke. I'll hold off from saying that smoking is a sin but I'll tell you this much. Smoking does cause health problems with both the smoker and the people around the smoker and that is something to keep in mind. I have family members that have and still are suffering greatly because they smoke or use to smoke. The health risks are real.

[GregoryTurner]

I am unaware of any Baptist pastors around here that smoke. I'll hold off from saying that smoking is a sin but I'll tell you this much. Smoking does cause health problems with both the smoker and the people around the smoker and that is something to keep in mind. I have family members that have and still are suffering greatly because they smoke or use to smoke. The health risks are real.
I have noticed that noone has responded to my statement of if someone was to say that there are many health issues regarding smoking then we should all stop driving and flying since the machines used to do such things is just as harmful. Like when driving down the road and a dump truck has all those fumes that omit into the air are just as bad as smoking. Please do not take me the wrong way, I am not defending or condoning smoking. I just find it to be an interesting topic.
g

[mont974x4]

I must first admit that I do smoke and do have an occassional beer or glass of wine.


ON this issue we are free to choose. We, as people, have atendency to place fences around issues. The first example is Eve when she said the they were to not even touch the fruit. Later some Isrealites added these "fences" to the law and soon these personal fences were treated as law and forced on other people. Jesus hammered on this issue with the Pharisees and scribes.

We should be honest with ourselves. If I know I have a problem with drinking alcohol then I should stay away from it, even tho biblically I can drink it. However, I am not free to force that on other people. Paul covers this quite well, IMO. We need to handle it correctly.


As to the body being a temple? It's my opinion that we are a spiritual temple and we need to strive to keep it spiritually pure. It has nothing to do with the physical...again just my opinion.


As to the wine being diferent? I'm not buying it, either. There is no biblical evidence to suggest that. Nor is there any evidence to suggest that Jesus didn't drink any wine. Incidentally, the orgianl word (both OT and NT) were either wine or strong drink...as least as far as I have found so far. So to say that it wasn't really alcoholic, when there is no biblical evidence to say otherwise and we know historically that man has been making wine and beer for almost as long as man has existed, is a mistake.


Keep in mind, if you choose to not drink or smoke or you choose to do so, we are not free to hold it against you.

[Pepperoni]

I just returned from a trip to Gainesville, FL(well actually a little town just outside called Archer) to attend and preach the funeral for my uncle. This was my first time to do this and had another Baptist preacher there to help me. My question is this...
How many Baptist preachers smoke?
I told me wife that I could smell cigarettes on him when he returned from talking with the funeral director. She told me that the majority of Baptist preachers she has ever met were also smokers. I was quite schocked actually. Could someone explain this to me please?
Thank you for your time...
g
I'm positive my pastor does not smoke. And if I asked him why, I would imagine it has something (or maybe everything) to do with your body being a temple. Quite frankly, I'd probably lose respect for him if I found out he did smoke. Yeah, probably a lot of pastors over-eat too, but you can always quit smoking--you can't really quit eating.

Sorry if I sound confrontational or judgmental, as that is not my intent at all.

[MrJim]

Gee I'm surprised to see so many smokers around here...I don't feel so bad.

I smoked my last camel New Year's Eve 2003. I wasn't a heavy smoker, a pack a week (yup, a pack a week). There were a couple of reasons I finally quit.

1. I found I was hiding when I was smoking. I even took up fishing that year so I could hide out at the creekbank. Sometimes I would take my oldest son fishing, then have him on the other side of some bushes while I burned one. The sneaking around really bothered me, and since my wife could smell it she was on me, then she told the boys, and they got on me.
2. I started getting some funky chest pains. Turned out (after a stress test) that it wasn't anything-probably anxiety:doh: but since I was getting older I figured I needed to give my heart a break.

Y'all have to deal with it as the Lord leads ya, I know it did have an effect on my witness with my co-workers, but then so did the quitting I guess ("Hey Jim, how come you don't smoke anymore?").

But hey, really, quitting isn't hard, I did it lots of times;)

[Gear853]

I would also like to note that I have known many people who have had lung cancer, enphyzema, etc. and have never smoked anything in their whole lives. If we look at smoking as being harmful to the temple of God as some people say, then I think that Christians need to also quit driving cars, trucks, vans, buses, riding in planes, quit driving golf carts to play golf. As these vehicles are just pollution and causing the same sicknesses as smoking.

Just little thoughts from a little person...

g

yep. in fact typing on your computer right now you are risking getting electrocuted!

same as walking outside, possible meteor from space hitting you. etc...eek :P

[HypoTypoSis]

I smoke because I enjoy it.

All things of the flesh are enjoyable. Let's see where this goes.

I don't feel compelled to defend it as it isn't a sin.

If a man thinketh something evil and does that thing then for him it is evil. Still seeing where this goes.

If I thought it was I wouldn't do it.

'I can quit anytime I want'; 'I can quit drinking anytime I want', 'I can quit drugs anytime I want', 'I can quit gambling anytime I want', 'I can quit spending my nights on the internet anytime I want', 'I can quit homosexuality anytime I want', 'I can quit looking lustfully on pretty passing women anytime I want'. "I just don't see anything wrong with these things so, for me, they are not evil thus my doing them is not sin". We've all heard, thought and spoken these types of excuses for our behaviour before. Can we see where this line of thinking is heading yet?

Smoking has become the fad pariah of the day.

What should we say about anything and everything that takes out attention off of Jesus? For sure the world would not count that but, then, they would count everything that would be in opposition to One Worldliness and, of course, cigarettes are in that list, too, just as the deity of Christ that separates Christianity from all other religions, beliefs and faiths. hmmm, d'ya reckon this is starting to get confusing?

While I would be careful to not cause a brother to fall or be offended because of poor teaching

Well, setting an example that says to the brother that habits leading to cancer, heart problems, emphysema or, for that matter, sexual perversions of any form, drinking, over eating, habits and pursuits that take our attention off of Jesus, internet or gambling addictions, even bible study avoiding worship and prayer, too much work leaving one's spouse or children without familial fellowship, the worldly list is endless--all these do appear to have their downsides when it comes to our relationship with our Lord--which is exactly what the devil's intent is--not to mention the 'curses' that eventually befall us due our aiding our brother fall for our displayed and advertised example is that these things are good, safe and ok to do for our example loudly states there is no such thing as God's Universal Truth but, rather, all truth is relatively determined as we, individually, so desire and decide. Are we getting to where this is going yet?

or weak faith I will not bow to legalists who make everything sin in order to make themselves judges.

Granted, all things may not be sin, in fact, NO THING is evil IN ITSELF, only that a man THINKETH it so but, then, not all things are needful for the body either so rationalizing relativism is not the answer as it leads one down the worldly path that, in deciding what is relative truth blocks God out of our life as we have placed our lower physical nature's desires above that of God, ie our baser sinful evil nature has won out. That's not making ourselves judges of each other but, rather, judges of ourselves. Perhaps, this is finally beginning to get there.

I have a question also, how many Baptist preachers

Baptist preachers? Baptist men? Baptist women? Baptist children? Non-Baptist each and every Christian? Methodists, Presbyterians, AoG, Pentecostals, Appalachian Snake Handlers, et al. Every non-Christian person? Kinda takes in everyone donchya reckon?

do you know who over eat?

Over eat? Over smoke? over indulge? Over TV? Over internet? Over work? Over any thing? Over every thing? Rightfully, it's everything that takes our attention away from Jesus. Literally, anything to excess and "in all things moderation" does not always cut it when viewed in light of God's Universal Truth vs rationalized individual relative 'right'. Seems it's not as 'in our favor simple' as we would like it to be even though God's thoughts on the matter are simpler still. Seems pretty simple donchya agree?

Are cigarettes bad only because the law does not say it is illegal to smoke them? Is smoking marijuana evil only because the law says it is? We see just in our life times how the tide of earthly and public sinful passionate lust of homosexuality is swaying the law to say it's no longer illegal and for the public school system to teach our naive babes it is 'normal' and how churches are beginning to be legally pressured and muzzled to not call it evil and sinful but, then, in God's eyes, is it or is it not? Do you see where this is not just going but, actually and in reality, IS?

Does Universal Truth reign or does rationalized individual relative right rule? WHO decides?

Or does it just depend on whether we speak from a spiritual or from a worldly viewpoint? What say ye where this has gone and really is?

[Alejandro]

It's funny...

we all act like we have rights. The right to smoke.. the right to drink.. the right to judge.
The main reason for divisions is everyone wants their rights. I feel that smoking is right.. and other will say I feel like drinking is right.. others will even believe smoking weed is right, its natural and helps them relax.

Well.. we are all slaves of Jesus Christ right?? He paid the price for our freedom.
ok so.. if you agree.. why are we debating on something that we have no authority. I'm not saying that smoking is a sin.. but would you smoke in front of your new born child?
Here are some scientific facts.. and it's up to you to decide if smoking is good or bad for you.

Taken from the following website:
http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/smoking/smokedf/health_consequences_smoking.html

Among smokers age 35 to 69 smoking accounts for a three fold increase in the death rate, and approximately half of all regular smokers that begin smoking during adolescence will be killed by tobacco (Who (http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/smoking/smokedf/health_consequences_smoking.html#references)).
In 1985 it was estimated that more than one in every six deaths in the USA was the result of smoking.
Smokers have more acute and chronic illnesses than never smokers, more bed disability days, and miss more school and work days .
Smokers make greater use of inpatient and outpatient hospital services and lower use of preventive care services (Sherman (http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/smoking/smokedf/health_consequences_smoking.html#references)).
Of all cancer deaths in the USA, 30% could be prevented if cigarette smoking was eliminated (Newcomb (http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/smoking/smokedf/health_consequences_smoking.html#references)).
Between 15 to 30% of all hospitalized patients have a substance abuse problem (Geller (http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/smoking/smokedf/health_consequences_smoking.html#references)).May God bless you all and help you find peace within your hearts. Only the Holy Spirit can guide us to take the right decisions. It is a constant fight against our flesh.. and the greatest battles are all happening in our own minds.

[Pepperoni]

It's funny...

we all act like we have rights. The right to smoke.. the right to drink.. the right to judge.
The main reason for divisions is everyone wants their rights. I feel that smoking is right.. and other will say I feel like drinking is right.. others will even believe smoking weed is right, its natural and helps them relax.

Well.. we are all slaves of Jesus Christ right?? He paid the price for our freedom.
Excellent!

You all will notice that standing up for your rights is not Biblical. No where in the Bible does it even mention that we have any rights. On the contrary, we're all slaves to Christ, like Alejandro mentioned.

[ConservativeChristian97]

I wasn't going to reply, but I feel the ad in big, bold letters speaks volumes:
DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER?

Okay, that's enough from me. :)

[Gear853]

i will post a more serious reply.

My love and I were talking about this topic. we both agree that, as Christian we shouldn't do anything like that. such as drinking or smoking. because we should be role models to people.

i know that drinking once awhile or smoking isn't a bad things. everyone have a choice. but we should seriously think about how would people see Christian, if they see one of us drink or smoke.

remember, people don't often remember us for the good things we do, but rather the bad thing =(

[mont974x4]

Excellent!

You all will notice that standing up for your rights is not Biblical. No where in the Bible does it even mention that we have any rights. On the contrary, we're all slaves to Christ, like Alejandro mentioned.
Actually we do have rights and even Paul stood up for himself as a Roman citizen.

The key? How we exercize our rights and how and when we take our stands.

[Alejandro]

Actually we do have rights and even Paul stood up for himself as a Roman citizen.

The key? How we exercize our rights and how and when we take our stands.


I'm sorry.. I missed that one. Do you know where exactly Paul stood up as a Roman citizen? It sounds interesting and I'd like to learn.



I think we have to follow the context here.. people are debating between smoking is a sin or not. We are servants of the Lord. The Lord himself showed us all how to be servants. If God tells you to go right.. well you have the right to go left.. but as a servant.. one must obey his Lord. I have smoked cigarettes, and let me tell you I felt bad the day after and my throat took a beating. I understood that smoking is bad and saddens the Holy Spirit. We are all having daily struggles.. and we are the Church.. 1 body.. and instead of flaming each other we should cheer each other in our daily battles.

[mont974x4]

I'm sorry.. I missed that one. Do you know where exactly Paul stood up as a Roman citizen? It sounds interesting and I'd like to learn.



I think we have to follow the context here.. people are debating between smoking is a sin or not. We are servants of the Lord. The Lord himself showed us all how to be servants. If God tells you to go right.. well you have the right to go left.. but as a servant.. one must obey his Lord. I have smoked cigarettes, and let me tell you I felt bad the day after and my throat took a beating. I understood that smoking is bad and saddens the Holy Spirit. We are all having daily struggles.. and we are the Church.. 1 body.. and instead of flaming each other we should cheer each other in our daily battles.
NO problem...

YLT

Act 16:35 And day having come, the magistrates sent the rod-bearers, saying, `Let those men go;'
Act 16:36 and the jailor told these words unto Paul--`The magistrates have sent, that ye may be let go; now, therefore, having gone forth go on in peace;'
Act 16:37 and Paul said to them, `Having beaten us publicly uncondemned--men, Romans being--they did cast us to prison, and now privately do they cast us forth! why no! but having come themselves, let them bring us forth.'
Act 16:38 And the rod-bearers told to the magistrates these sayings, and they were afraid, having heard that they are Romans,
Act 16:39 and having come, they besought them, and having brought them forth, they were asking them to go forth from the city;
Act 16:40 and they, having gone forth out of the prison, entered into the house of Lydia, and having seen the brethren, they comforted them, and went forth.

[mlqurgw]

Over eat? Over smoke? over indulge? Over TV? Over internet? Over work? Over any thing? Over every thing? Rightfully, it's everything that takes our attention away from Jesus. Literally, anything to excess and "in all things moderation" does not always cut it when viewed in light of God's Universal Truth vs rationalized individual relative 'right'. Seems it's not as 'in our favor simple' as we would like it to be even though God's thoughts on the matter are simpler still. Seems pretty simple donchya agree?

Are cigarettes bad only because the law does not say it is illegal to smoke them? Is smoking marijuana evil only because the law says it is? We see just in our life times how the tide of earthly and public sinful passionate lust of homosexuality is swaying the law to say it's no longer illegal and for the public school system to teach our naive babes it is 'normal' and how churches are beginning to be legally pressured and muzzled to not call it evil and sinful but, then, in God's eyes, is it or is it not? Do you see where this is not just going but, actually and in reality, IS?

Does Universal Truth reign or does rationalized individual relative right rule? WHO decides?

Or does it just depend on whether we speak from a spiritual or from a worldly viewpoint? What say ye where this has gone and really is?I say it has gone and in reality is pharisaical legalism. It has nothing to do with my rights but with my liberty as a child of God. As I said, I do not feel compelled to defend my actions. You are free to disagree.

[DeaconDean]

I say it has gone and in reality is pharisaical legalism. It has nothing to do with my rights but with my liberty as a child of God. As I said, I do not feel compelled to defend my actions. You are free to disagree.

Let me say this and I'll bow out. When I rededicated my life to the Lord, He took all the desires I had to smoke pot and drink hard liquor away. He never laid on my heart the urge to quit smoking cigerettes. Rest assured that when He does, I'll quit. Until that time, I agree whole heartedly with my Brother:

I do not feel compelled to defend my actions.

I mean after all, who of us is righteous enough to pass judgment on another? And who here lives a life that is righteous enough that we can say; "Look at my life?" Not one of us! And I only know of one who can make that boast. And I only know of one who is a righteous judge.

"...the Lord, the righteous judge," -2 Tim. 4:8

Lest we forget:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." -Mt. 7:1-5

And must we be reminded of what Jesus said:

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:" -Jn. 8:7-11

After all, who of us lives in such a way that we can point that finger at another and say that they are in the wrong because they do or do not do something. Just some food for thought.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[HypoTypoSis]

Tobacco, drugs and alcohol are all poisonous drugs.

Indulgences such as smoking, overeating, drugs and alcohol are a slow form of suicide.

Choosing suicide is a "right" of every human being to opt out of life.

The wages of sin is death.

The wages of drug usage are sickness and (hurried) death.

If it quacks like a duck...

[DeaconDean]

One more thought:

A certain member of a church had been witnessing to a man for quite a long time. The man after a long time of refusing to come to church, finally decides to visit. After the church was over, another member went to the back row where this man was sitting and said to him:

"You cannot be a member of this church unless you give up smoking."

The witnessing member heard this. The man walked out and never came back. The witnessing man asked the member why they said such a thing. The member replied, The Lord led me to say that. The other member replied to him: The Lord said no such a thing! We have spent years trying to get him in the church and here you have run him off. Isn't it up to God to clean up the sinner and not us clean up before we come to Him?

Just some food for thought.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[HypoTypoSis]

who of us is righteous enough to pass judgment on another?


It is not a matter of judging another person but, rather, a matter of judging things, of judging matters, of judging acts, of judging what is evil and its result, sin.

1 Corinthians 2:15, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

A duck is a duck is a duck.

[HypoTypoSis]

"You cannot be a member of this church unless you give up smoking."

1 Corinthians 5:3-5, "For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

The case in question, while specifically referring to an issue of deviant sexual perversion, is still applicable to all forms of forms unrepenting actions that the majority of The Body whole finds reprehensible and sinful.

Convincing mankind that rationalizing God's Universal Truth into man's relative right is the core of Satan's big lie.

[greeker57married]

I just returned from a trip to Gainesville, FL(well actually a little town just outside called Archer) to attend and preach the funeral for my uncle. This was my first time to do this and had another Baptist preacher there to help me. My question is this...
How many Baptist preachers smoke?
I told me wife that I could smell cigarettes on him when he returned from talking with the funeral director. She told me that the majority of Baptist preachers she has ever met were also smokers. I was quite schocked actually. Could someone explain this to me please?
Thank you for your time...
g

I quite smoking when the Lord called me to preach, but I have known a few Baptist preachers that Smoke. The vast majority do not smoke. But when I came to the Church were I am now. The septic tank stopped up in the pastorium and the guy that drained it, said it was stopped up with cigerette butts. the previous pastor had been their for over twenty years and smoked.

God Bless
Greeker

[DeaconDean]

1 Corinthians 5:3-5, "For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

The case in question, while specifically referring to an issue of deviant sexual perversion, is still applicable to all forms of forms unrepenting actions that the majority of The Body whole finds reprehensible and sinful.

Convincing mankind that rationalizing God's Universal Truth into man's relative right is the core of Satan's big lie.

You know what Sis? The Lord warned against eating pork in the Old Testament law.

"Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof;" -Deut. 14:7

Nevertheless, as I understand scripture, pigs, having a cloven hoof, are unclean, therefore by scripture, not to be eaten. But in Acts, we see a sheet being let down from heaven and we see this taking place:

"And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." -Acts 10:11-15

When Peter saw the sheet let down, and made the statement "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." (Acts 10:14) We can safely say that were pigs on the sheet by Peters statement, and the Lord told Peter: "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." (Acts 10:15)

I believe that this piece of scripture has a two fold meaning.


1. That what was once unclean in respect to food, is now clean by God's own words.

"And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." -Mt. 15:16-20

Because after all, it is not what enters into man that defileth, it is what comes out of the heart that defileth.

2. God was telling Peter that the formerly "unclean" Gentiles are now clean, and to go among them preaching the Gospel.

For Peter was sent to a Roman centurion. Rather, the centurion was sent to him. Either way, Gentiles were now to be included in Peter's missions. (Acts 10)

That is what I believe with all my heart.

Now we all know that pork is high in cholesterol. Nevertheless, there are a great many people who eat bacon, ham, pork chops, ribs, etc. Now are you going to condemn them and tell them that because pork is high in cholesterol, and causes plaque build up in the arteries, or as it was called years ago, "hardening of the arteries," that all who eat pork are wrong and should quit because they are harming their body?

And since it seems that no matter how I answer it will be wrong, I will not post here again.

In the interest of neutrality, I'll bow to your convictions, and bow out of this thread gracefully.

And I will pray and ask the Lord to bless you richly in your life and your walk with Him.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[JPPT1974]

A lot of people in my church smoke
But they smoke outside the building
But they know better not to smoke
In front of me as I am allergic to smoking
My allergies get all watery. :(

[HypoTypoSis]

My my, such a high holy response in defense of the self-righteous self-deteriorating humankind condition.

You know what Sis?

Kindly drop the terms of familiarity, you know nothing about me beyond some typeface on your monitor and I don't care for the patronization so let's get to the point of your ill begotten defense of poisonous suicidal actions.

The Lord warned against eating pork in the Old Testament law.

Have you even the foggiest idea why this was? *

Now we all know that pork is high in cholesterol.

Again, know ye, perhaps, the largest reason why this is? **


* Trichinosis
** Feedlots

[mesue]

I smoked for 20 years and quit not because it is a sin but because my dad died of lung cancer and I sounded like him when I coughed. The wages of tobacco is death.

[aReformedPatriot]

I just returned from a trip to Gainesville, FL(well actually a little town just outside called Archer) to attend and preach the funeral for my uncle. This was my first time to do this and had another Baptist preacher there to help me. My question is this...
How many Baptist preachers smoke?
I told me wife that I could smell cigarettes on him when he returned from talking with the funeral director. She told me that the majority of Baptist preachers she has ever met were also smokers. I was quite schocked actually. Could someone explain this to me please?
Thank you for your time...
g

Not that many whom I have encountered. Those that do smoke, Most of them smoke pipes or cigars in my experience anyways.