Breaking the 5th commandment?

[YouRaiseMeUp]

Okay so I joined the RCIA and I will be confirmed in April the night before easter. I know I haven't posted here in a while but I'm back now and I have a question.

The woman who teaches the class is Sister Marie and last night we had a discussion on the 10 commandments. Since there is only ten of us in the class each one of us took a commandment and read up on it and explained what it meant.

I got number five, thou shalt not kill, and I found out that it also means not harming someone emotionally as WELL as Physically. Well I harm people all the time with my words, it's become second nature to me because of the hard life I've lead. I am a rather small person and they only recourse I have is verbal abuse, I cannot physically fight.

Not only that, but I'm breaking like 5 more commandments as we speak. Some of the things I am doing to break the fifth commandment (Don't worry I haven't killed anyone) I don't want to stop doing. I know I have to but I feel like it's justified. I guess what I'm asking is if you guys believe that harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.

Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

[katealpha]

Hi,
I'm also doing RCIA and hope to be confirmed at Easter.

I think it can be hard to come to terms with things you do which you know in your heart to be wrong. I will pray that you listen to your heart before you act.

[QuantaCura]

Me too :crossrc:

(and welcome to both of you! :) )

[Angelus00]

Respectfully, verbal abuse IS in oppostion to the 5th commandment. Many do not WANT to stop their sinful behavior. It's not a matter of feeling "justified." Many feel justified in aborting a baby or taking what doesn't belong to them or....whatever. We're called to a higher standard. May Christ's peace be with you on your journey. Some have a much rockier journey than others and my prayers are with you.

[DedicatedLittleFaith]

Respectfully, verbal abuse IS in oppostion to the 5th commandment. Many do not WANT to stop their sinful behavior. It's not a matter of feeling "justified." Many feel justified in aborting a baby or taking what doesn't belong to them or....whatever. We're called to a higher standard. May Christ's peace be with you on your journey. Some have a much rockier journey than others and my prayers are with you.
I agree with Angelus00. Having been a victim of verbal abuse myself, I can assure you it can leaves scars just has bad has physical harm.

Christ teaches us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. It is difficult, I know, but it is what He asks of us. Jesus would not use verbal abuse to reprimand someone, and He asks us to foloow in His footsteps.

My prayers are with you dear friend :)

[PolskiKrol]

I know I have to but I feel like it's justified.

Jesus would be quite justified throwing all of us in hell for all eternity. But instead He showed mercy and compassion, and we are called to do the same.

[DedicatedLittleFaith]

Jesus would be quite justified throwing all of us in hell for all eternity. But instead He showed mercy and compassion, and we are called to do the same.
Amen :)

[helenofbritain]

The only recourse I have is verbal abuse, I cannot physically fight. I don't want to stop doing. I know I have to but I feel like it's justified.

Some words from Our Lord to ponder in your heart, dear sister:

"You must love your enemies"

"Do unto other as you would have them do unto you"

"Turn the other cheek"

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God"


:hug: HofB

[norbie]

Jesus would be quite justified throwing all of us in hell for all eternity. But instead He showed mercy and compassion, and we are called to do the same.
hi,
you may rethink your statement 'ALL OTHER CHURCHES' protesting....
may i remind you that the primar of the church of england(anglican in australia) have celebrated hl. mass together!
norbie

[JoyforJESUS]

I do not belong to your faith group

but I will tell you what I was taught and believe (as my religion teaches)

WE SIN BY THOUGHT, WORD AND DEED

it is a sin to harm someone verbally, and to say "I wish he were dead"

Just my thoughts'

[chnchris]

I got number five, thou shalt not kill, and I found out that it also means not harming someone emotionally as WELL as Physically. Well I harm people all the time with my words...
I guess what I'm asking is if you guys believe that harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.

Read what James 3: 6-10 has to say:

The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.

JMJ+
chris

[plmarquette]

The things that make a sin serious ....
accept the temptation , dwell upon it , then do it ...

Jesus said " you have been instructed , but I say to you " he who thinks upon sin is already guilty ... for what you think & meditate upon you will do ...

Matthew 5.26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

[Busterrulz4eva]

Well, I have been confirmed and I think if you are getting really hurt, you should verbally defend yourself and pray to God for forgiveness. I mean, he knows all..so shouldn't he understand? I am sure God doesn't mind you going off-course a few time.
"God is forgiving..."

[missvicious423]

I'll be praying for you. I have a hard time with this as well. :crossrc:

[GerTzedek]

Some of the things I am doing to break the fifth commandment (Don't worry I haven't killed anyone) I don't want to stop doing. I know I have to but I feel like it's justified. I guess what I'm asking is if you guys believe that harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.

Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

Please know that I'm no saint -- there is no halo over my head. I am a sinner saved by grace who, with the Lord's help, am working to straighten out my life ever more and become the holy being he has designed me to be.

May I suggest that you look for courses in assertiveness training? They will help you find that appropriate boundary between respecting yourself and having others respect you, and being disrespectful to others in your need for respect. It is not at all unusual for people who have been badly hurt, especially if they are the vulnerable sort, to have developed harmful and ineffective ways to protect themselves. Scripture says, "A wise man has many counselors." Seek them out.

There is a time and place for telling the truth about someone's bad deeds -- if you need to protect yourself, them, or another from harm. Otherwise, even if it is true, spreading stories about them is a form of gossip, "evil tongue." It is listed in scripture right next to idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, etc.

May the One who heals lepers and raises the dead bring healing to your soul.

Shalom

[JoabAnias]

Is if harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.


If you do a word search for "calumny" in the on-line CCC you should get the answer to that question.

Peace.

:crossrc:

[RND]

Okay so I joined the RCIA and I will be confirmed in April the night before easter. I know I haven't posted here in a while but I'm back now and I have a question.

The woman who teaches the class is Sister Marie and last night we had a discussion on the 10 commandments. Since there is only ten of us in the class each one of us took a commandment and read up on it and explained what it meant.

I got number five, thou shalt not kill,

If I may interject, according to the book of Exodus in chapter 20, the fifth commandment is to honor you father and mother (Ex. 20:12). Murder is commandment number 6.

and I found out that it also means not harming someone emotionally as WELL as Physically. Well I harm people all the time with my words, it's become second nature to me because of the hard life I've lead. I am a rather small person and they only recourse I have is verbal abuse, I cannot physically fight.

Jesus also reiterated this point in the Gospels as well when He 'spiritualized' the meaning of the 10 Commandments to include are everyday actions.

Mat 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Not only that, but I'm breaking like 5 more commandments as we speak. Some of the things I am doing to break the fifth commandment (Don't worry I haven't killed anyone) I don't want to stop doing.

If you've broken one then you've already broken them all!

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I know I have to but I feel like it's justified. I guess what I'm asking is if you guys believe that harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.

Yes, because you are entertaining disobeidence to the Word of God and yielding to your sinful, carnal nature. Seek help from the Holy Spirit.

Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

I'll gladly pray for you but there is nothing you can change on your own outside of the help of Jesus Christ.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[strive4impact]

I'll pray for you too.

Jonathan

[HolyGuardianAngels]

Exodus 20:1-17



Please make sure you are using a :ebil: Roman Catholic Bible as we don't list the 10 Commandments the same as the Protestants.

The Protestants have changes them some what.





Merry Christmas
:angel:

[JacktheCatholic]

Respectfully, verbal abuse IS in oppostion to the 5th commandment. Many do not WANT to stop their sinful behavior. It's not a matter of feeling "justified." Many feel justified in aborting a baby or taking what doesn't belong to them or....whatever. We're called to a higher standard. May Christ's peace be with you on your journey. Some have a much rockier journey than others and my prayers are with you.


I would like to add that sin is in varying degrees. We have different levels of venial sin and different levels of mortal sin. Sometimes a thing seen as veneial sin can become mortal sin when great harm is done.

To give a quick example I just thought up...

If we gossip and/or tells stories of others we can be guilty of veneial sin when we attack their reputation. Also if we attack someone's reputation and it leads to some serious results to that person and those around him/her we can find that the venial sin becomes mortal sin. Say for example you are an employees boss and you ruin this employees repuation. This could result in this employee losing their job and source of income and also that they cannot easily find a job because of this a rumor the boss started. Not only could this affect this employees well being but if they have dependentst then those as well.

[JoabAnias]

I'm not a Catholic so why would I use a Catholic Bible?

Because if you don't you use the one false teachers have changed since the 16th century.

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

[RND]

Because if you don't you use the one false teachers have changed since the 16th century.

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

I'm confussed then in that case.

If you are using the "correct" version of the Bible, why the need to change the order of the commandments?

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

What do you suppose those "times and laws" that the little horn thinks to change are?

[JoabAnias]

The church doesn't fulfill the old covenant, Jesus does. We worship only the one true God in three persons.

The Catholic Church remains:

1Ti 3:15 that you may know how to behave in the house of God, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

and it will remain so until the end of time because Jesus said it would be so.

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against her.

Joh 14:16 And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age,


God's commandment "thou shall not make a graven image" is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.

Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God's wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews' most solemn place of worship.

2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.

Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon") of the invisible God.
Images and Statues (http://www.scripturecatholic.com/sacramentals.html)


Joh 14:26 but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you.

These accusations of Satan that we worship images are nothing new:

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

[JoabAnias]

I'm confussed then in that case.

If you are using the "correct" version of the Bible, why the need to change the order of the commandments?

The order of the comandments are as the Holy Spirit intends them to be.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

What do you suppose those "times and laws" that the little horn thinks to change are?

I suppose a denial of the apostolic church, and laws of nature or imposing ones own will over that of Gods.

Perhaps removing books from the bible all together and erroding the doctrines of Christ's church or attacking her in general by appearing as an angel of light and twisting scripture to suit his own diabolical purposes for the destruction and tearing down of men in opposition to the Church who interprets through the Holy Spirit for the building up.

I'd also suppose one of the biggest things he would like to do is cause the break up of the family, death of the innocent and unity in general.

Doesn't really matter when Christ's promise holds true now does it? "The gates of hell will not prevail." You see He fulfilled that prophesy too.

Peace.

[JoabAnias]

Well I harm people all the time with my words, it's become second nature to me because of the hard life I've lead.
Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

Something occured to me tonight at work about your situation that might be of a practicle help for you besides prayers that is.

I remembered coming to terms with a similar problem shortly after my conversion. It was so long ago now I had almost forgot but when It came back to me I remembered this thread.

Somewhere in my travels I picked up this little stone with the words of the Lord on it "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone".

When I first brought the stone home I hadn't even realize I judged others. Slowly, as I would see the stone sitting around at home, I realized I was hard on people in my thoughts and words.

I began to look at this stone every day after that until I finally just began carrying it around. It was a great reminder even after the hard thoughts went away. In fact I still have the stone and its followed me for over a decade now.

It worked for me and maybe can work for you too. I don't know where you could get one but any small stone might work if you know the passage. "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone". Jn 8:7

Peace.

[DedicatedLittleFaith]

This is a Catechism Studies Group.

Non-Catholics are welcome to participate in the discussions of course, but you cannot argue against Catholic Teachings here. The whole point of this group is for Catholics to grow in their faith.

[Ceili]

I read these posts and it's a simple but varying commandment but not always the easiest to keep. I agree with the poster-Jack the Catholic.

I'm being confirmed March 22. I'm really feeling great fire and strength in almost everything I put my mind to. Holy Spirit protect me and help me understand everything I am being taught as there's so much to learn.:crossrc:


anyone going through their Rite the same time as me this year?

[norbie]

hi,
you may rethink your statement 'ALL OTHER CHURCHES' protesting....
may i remind you that the primar of the church of england(anglican in australia) have celebrated hl. mass together!
norbie
I am terrible sorry and apologiese to all of you - this post of mine should not be here - I didn't put it there, so please forgive my interference.