Is Islam a judgement on us?

[colinlindsay]

I'd like to explore this topic.
Us = the church or the UK/USA
For instance I was listening this morning on the radio on the increase of religious courts and legal jurisdictions running side-by-side and maybe in conflict with English secular law.
Could God be judging our legal system because of the ungodly laws passed?

[twistedsketch]

If it is divine judgment, I don't think that we would ever find the reason because of all the agendas out there. The theocrats will claim it is because we don't have Bible-based laws. The socialists will claim it is because of capitalism. The pacifists will say it is because of wars. Those who especially hate homosexuality will say it is because we tolerate gays. Those who especially hate adultery will say it is because of our liberal stance on divorce and remarriage. The racists will blame the tolerance given to minorities. We will never reach the end of this because there are Christians belonging to every faction I have mentioned.

If you're going to decide that anything is judgment, for that to do any good, the rest of the country is going to have to get on the same page as to why we are being judged. Recognizing judgment doesn't do you any good if you can't see the sin that is being judged so you can work to remove it.

Besides, if it is judgment you have got to wonder what is in store for the Muslim world. Their violence, their hatred, their persecution of the church, their slaving, their rejection of the truth - those are VERY good reasons for God to bring disaster if He were to choose to.

[BigNorsk]

I haven't seen laws passed that require us to sin. As such the law is not ungodly.

We don't see judgement in the Bible come down on a people due to their laws either. We see it come down on them because they are ungodly.

Usually the judgement does not come until the ungodliness is quite complete, though there are exceptions like when the guy took treasure from Jericho that belonged to God.

We also see judgement come when the leader sins. Such as when David counted his army and the Lord was slaying the people until David repented and begged to Lord to take him instead.

Your idea is not new. Martin Luther actually said the Catholic church should see the losses to what he called the Turks as God using them to judge the ungodly church.

It would be nice to see God on our side, but it would seem a stretch at this point.

Marv

[TwinCrier]

What exactly are you viewing as judgement? I don't recall any terrible thing happening recently.

[arunma]

I don't think that Islam is God's means of inflicting judgment on anyone, at least not to any greater extent than the other infinitely many means that God has at his disposal to sovereignly judge his creation. It seems to me that Islam is just another form of terrorism. I think everyone here can agree that Islam is evil. So really, this reduces to the age old question of why there is evil in the world.

A little off topic. I used to believe in tolerating all forms of religion, even those that stand in opposition to Christianity (because I, being the good Calvinist that I am, think that people should become Christians of their own "free will," and not due to social or legal pressure). I still believe this, but I make an exception for Islam. Given recent Muslim behavior in Europe, and their behavior in India from time immemorial, I think that all secular democracies should ban Islam as soon as possible.