Feast of Tabernacles question

[daveleau]

Hello fellow saints,

I think this is one of my few posts in here, so I want to wish you all well, and pray G-d's blessings on your lives and ministries.

I have a question about the Feast of Tabernacles and John 7:37. I was reading in a discipleship ministries text (by Bill Hull) about Jesus' statement in this passage of John coinciding with a final ceremony in the Feast of Tabernacles. The book says that on this day, the 7th day of the Feast, living water is poured over the taberancle signifying G-d's promise of the coming Spirit. John 7 only mentions this as the last and greatest day of the feast.

My question is what occurs on the 7th day of this feast, and is it correct to say that Jesus said this just before the pouring of living water onto the tabernacle by the chief priest?

If this is true and Jesus was speaking in conjunction with an occurrance related to the feast, it seems to give even more meaning to this passage than what I realized. I have not read what occurs on the 7th day of the Feast of Tabernacle, so your help in this would be very welcomed in determining the accuracy of what Hull says in his book.

Thank you for your help!

In Him,
Dave

[Sephania]

Shabbat Shalom Dave and welcome to our forum. :)

The Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot as we call it, is a seven day long feast. It is the 'sister' in some ways to the other Pilgrim feast we have that the men 20 and up were required to appear before the L-RD in Jerusalem. The other occurs in the Spring at Passover, feast of unleaved bread and first fruits. This feast of unleavened bread also lasted seven days.

On both of these feasts of a week no matter which day it falls on, ( 1st thru 7th day of the week) it is still considered a Shabbat, or Sabbath day on the first day of the feast and the last.

The way many Messianics view Sukkot is that the first day of it . which is the 15th of the seventh month called Tishri :) is a Sabbath day and is a holy day. Of course if it falls say on a thursday, then that is a Sabbath and then there is stil the weekly Sabbath as well.

Now we believe Yeshua was born on the first day of the feast, which is a Sabbath ( and I personally believe it was also the weekly Sabbath as well).

This also helps to explain why there was no room at the inn as this was a commanded visit to Jerusalem and any places to stay would be filled up this time of year.

Anyway, The last day of the feast is the Eighth day.

We see the importance of the eighth day in Genisis 17:12 -------and he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations..............And the first one we see being circumcised on the eighth day is Isaac, who is a picture of Messiah.

So on the eighth day Yeshua was circumcised and also was named Yeshua, meaning Salvation.

Thirty three days later they went to the temple with him as we see in Luke.

There is a water pouring ceremony held everyday, starting on the second day of the feast, culminating on the last day, called the Great day, or the Day of Hoshanna Rabah.

The water was poured out into a bowl on the altar there for this special occasion.

I have a lot more to add but it's late. I will post more tomorrow for you.

[JoelParks]

The eighth day isn't really considered part of 'Tabernacles', it is an additional 'day', however. A day of intimacy God requests. It is called Shemini Atzeret, and it occurs on Tishri the 22nd.

The 'Great and Last Day' (of Tabernacles) would have been the Seventh Day of Tabernacles (Tishri 21) - and this was when Christ made the statements that he did, you are correct dave.

If we follow the course of time in the passages of John, however, we see the accounts of John chapter 8 would have occured on Shemini Atzeret... there is more good digging in there.

[Steve Petersen]

Actually 'Hoshannah Rabbah' means 'The Great Hosanna (Salvation)'

[Sephania]

There are the commandments of the Holy moedim and with them are added tradtions that even in Yeshua's day were established. The things that Yeshua did and spoke of in John that you are referring to Dave, are not all necessarily commandments but added tradition.

For example King Shlomo decided when the temple was complete to dedicate it on Sukkot. The offerings required for Sukkot were multiplied many times what was required.

Around the time of the quiet period of 400 years between the testements something occured that changed the traditions regarding the water ceremony at Sukkot.

This ceremony is not a commandment, rather something added because of the time of year that Sukkot fell, right before the winter rainy season. This rain would be very crucial for the spring crops, first of barley which is when Passover occurs and the barley is needed for a special commandment during that time. So rain was very important at this time of year. So even with the bounty of the summer harvest all around them, they did not sit back and feast without looking ahead, they instead used this time for thanks for the provision of the spring rains which brought the fall harvest, and prayed for the sending of the winter rains for the spring harvest.

These winter rains come in the land of Israel between November and March. So at the time of Sukkot it is the highest concern for rain to come as Sukkot falls in the month right before. So thus developed the water LIbation Ceremony that was done at the temple.

The water ceremony came at morning and when night fell something else occured that was also signifigant which I will touch on in a bit.

While the sacrifices were being prepared right after dawn by the priests, the Cohen HaGadol, or the High Priest would lead a procession of musicians and worshippers from the Temple down to the Pool of Siloam carrying a golden pitcher that held about a quart of water.

This was then brought back to the temple. At the time this was happening another group went down to a place calle Motza where willow trees grew. The willows were gathered and brought back to the Temple. The willow is one of the four species that is commanded to be gathered and waved before the L-RD on Sukkot, there is myrtle and a citrus and the other you are probaly familiar with, the lulav, or Palm branch.

These willow branches were brought back to the Temple and and placed on the side of the Altar, which formed a sort of Huppah, or canopy over the altar.

The High Priest now returned and came through the Southern gate of the Temple, called the Water Gate. :) Named for this very ceremony.

As he came through the gate the silver trumpets sounded, three blasts while the levites spoke in unison the Scripture from Isaiah 12:3


Therefore with JOY you will draw water from the wells of Salvation (Ha Yeshua). This verse and the ones before it we also recite even today when having a havdallah ceremony ( the closing of the Sabbath).

Now the High Priest goes up to the Altar, in the inner court, where sacrifices were made and offereing. There were placed two basins, one for the regualr offerings called the drink offerings the other for this water ceremony. He would raise his hands high so everyone could see ( because of something that happened during the Maccabean period around 95BCE) and would pour out the water in the special basin while another priest would pour out the wine offering in the other. This was immediately followed by three more blasts on the silver trumpets. Which signaled the begining of the Levites singing what we call the Hallel, which are the Psalms written for times like this, and found in the Psalms 113-118.

In 118 the verse 25 says:

'Hoshianna , (which means 'Save now' ) Save now, I pray, O L-RD, O L-RD, I pray, send now prosperity.' And the people shook the lulav, the palm branches.
This ceremony and the Psalms and the waving all have to do with Messianic times that is why they waved them at Yeshua, before Passover.

This is what they were doing on what Christians refer to as Palm Sunday.

In the Book of Revelation we see the Lamb on the throne surrounded by countless redeemed all dressed in white holding the Palm branch.

Now while the commandment to wave the four speices before the L-RD is found in Torah and one of those is the lulav, or palm, the waving and singing of the Psalms was developed later of course, but more than a hundred years before Yeshua came. So it was solid tradition by then.

As well as the water ceremony, this too dates to at least 100 years before Messiah came. So these were well known tradtions as far back as anyone could remember. This is what he used to speak to them about in John.

Now this water pouring ceremony took place each morning, but on the seventh and last morning there was a fever pitch reached for petitioning for rain. The service was different this day. Water was all on everyones mind as this was the last day to petition on high for favor of the winter rains. On this day instead of the three blasts on the trumpet, there were three sets of seven blasts made. On the previous days the priests went around the altar one time, this day it was seven times. As they marched around the altar, singing the Hoshanna verse , people waved the palm branches, and this day was known as the Hoshanna Rabah, the Great Hoshanna, the Great plea for salvation ( by water).

It is believed that it was this very day that Yeshua was at the temple with all priests present, with all the people gathered around as commanded to be gathered, and all of them with anticipation of rain on their minds and the salvation that it brings that Yeshua stepped forward and proclaimed:

If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believe in Me , and the scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER'!

He was proclaiming to them, that he was the true water that brings true salvation, and that he was the Messiah longed for, and whom the cryed out 'Hoshanna! Save Now!'

Of course this got the priests all in a tizzy and they tried to take hold of him then, but he vanished from their site for it wasn't his time yet...........

This is why a discussion broke out as to who he was and under what circumstances this happened.

[daveleau]

Outstanding. Thanks for all this information. I knew this would be the right place to ask. :)

In Him,
Dave

[Sephania]

Now on the nights of Sukkot something else happened during Yeshuas day. At the temple there in the outer courtyard ( known as the court of the women where Yeshua preached a lot) were placed four giant Menorahs. In King Solomons day there were 10.

On the second night of the feast people gathered there together under the full moon. These menorah were very large, so large it took a ladder to climb up to refill the oil pots and to light them.

Under these glowing lights, right after sunset the celebration would begin, the Levites would gather togehther in the court of the Israelites, and move through the Nicanor Gate to stand at the top of the 15 steps that lead down to the court where the Menorah burned brightly. The music would begin, and the Levites would begin singing the psalms of Degrees. known as psalm 120-134 ( 15 psalms). At beginning of each psalms they would move down one step.
This ceremony was done, each night for six night. This was such a wonderful and spectacular sight to behold that the ancient Sages proclaimed that 'He who has not beheld the Joy of the drawing of the water has never seen joy in his life. !

This light ceremony helped to recall the wonder of the first temple when the dedication came, at Sukkot and the glory of the L-RD came from heaven and light the Holy altar and then moved to fill the Holy of Holies. What a wonderous sight that must have been!

But not only to look back, but to look forward to the time when Messiah would come, when they believed the Shekinah glory would return when he came ( Eze 43)

The day immediately following the last day of Sukkot is called Shemini Atzeret Which means literally the eight day of assembly, is also known as Simchat Torah, the day of rejoycing in the Torah the Word of G-d. And Yeshua is the LIVING WORD OF G-D!

It was this very day ( remember started at evening) when now the lights of the preceding days festival were not lit, that Yeshua came to the Temple and announced:

'I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD! HE WHO FOLLOWS ME SHALL NOT WALK IN DARKNESS BUT HAVE THE LIGHT OF LIFE!'

This was very poignate because the preceding nights that very place was light up like times square, and now the lights were not there, and people were already thinking back to the brilliance of that time the days before. They were there, and longing to see that light again, and that is why what he said is so signifigant. Because there are many scriptures that point to the light of Messiah.

He is called, the Star out of Jacob, The light to the nations ( and sukkot offerings were for the nations) , a burning lamp, the Sun of righteouness, and the Light of Israel.

So what we read in John is very signifigant if you understand what was going on at the very time he said it.

I hope that has helped you Dave. Feel free to visit and ask us any other questions you have, we are happy to share what we know! :)

[HadassahSukkot]

OK i'm listening to this past week's Temple Talk and here we have something on Hoshanna Rabba that is very interesting to think on in the 1st hour. Haven't made it to the 2nd hour yet - but here is where you can listen, and it ties in a little to the parasha for this week.

Interesting stuff being drawn forward, though I don't nessisarily agree 100% with all that is said, it is definitely to be considered.

That which is brought out about sukkot... deep stuff.

For the entire week following each show, TEMPLE TALK can be heard here:
4 First Hour (http://www.israelnationalradio.com/Asx/temple-1.asx), 4 Second Hour (http://www.israelnationalradio.com/Asx/temple-2.asx)