Festival of Lights

[Snowy]

where is the story of the Festival of lights in scriptures?

[Shimshon]

John 10:22-38 22 Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter, 23 and Yeshua was walking around inside the Temple area, in Shlomo's Colonnade.

[Snowy]

I meant the story of how it came about.

[Shimshon]

It's in the Maccabees Non-canonical, Jewish apocrypha. Jewish history. It's not 'scriptural' as in it was not given in the 'Bible'. It's pre-canonical. It's part of the extra biblical writtings. It's a story of the final revolt against the Roman occupation. And leads to the Hebrew Alamo (Massada).

[Tishri1]

Shimmy:wave:I have missed you! Where is Mrs Shimmy? Are y'all back in the N.West again?:hug::hug::hug:

[Tishri1]

I meant the story of how it came about.If you want a great great DVD on Hanukkah then check out this one

https://ffoz.org/store/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=147

[psalms66]

I"mcurious too about celebrating this with my children for the first time. I bought a little brass menorah candle holder but I have NO clue about how to celebrate it. I know the story (vaguely) but nothing else. And I googled it but wowzers.... TOO much information to sort through!!!

Thanks!

[christianmomof3]

You can go to the public library and check out some children's books about Chanukkah. They are usually pretty good and not too much info.:)

[Tishri1]

doing a play of the story is awesome with Kids and so is discussion on Miracles, and this was the time when Jesus/Yeshua told publically that he was Messiah , that is cool and also I am about 99% sure this was when Yeshua was conceived:wave:

The bible talks about a time in the scripture which I think is a future Hannukah day the very last day mentioned after the tribulation


11 (http://kjv.biblebrowser.com/daniel/12-11.htm) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.[I think this is a Yom Kippur]

12 (http://kjv.biblebrowser.com/daniel/12-12.htm) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.[I think this could be Hannukkah]

Just my quirky opinion:wave:

13 (http://kjv.biblebrowser.com/daniel/12-13.htm) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

[HadassahSukkot]

For those just starting out, a good "how to" can be found at www.biblicalholidays.com (http://www.biblicalholidays.com) <-- she has something on everything, and her book is great for homeschooling, Shabbas school or just celebrating at home with the little ones.

I purchased the book to check it out and have something to do when/if I have any small ones.

FFOZ has a great book or two, but I haven't checked them out.

I purchased my copy of Maccabees 1 & 2 from a local bookseller and read the story there. You can also read it online here (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/#1maccabees).

[SpiritPsalmist]

I"mcurious too about celebrating this with my children for the first time. I bought a little brass menorah candle holder but I have NO clue about how to celebrate it. I know the story (vaguely) but nothing else. And I googled it but wowzers.... TOO much information to sort through!!!

Thanks!
I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet but there is a wonderful Jewish children's site that will explain it all. It's http://www.torahtots.com

[Sephania]

It's really a story about something Holy, being made unclean and being restored to clean again. It is the celebration of what was made Holy to G-d that was defiled by sin ( HaSatan) and then was purified and made clean once again.

Kind of like the story of mankind. :)

What Yeshua was celebrating was the rededication of the Temple of G-d. When the temple was defiled the Holy light of G-d represented by the Menorah was extinquished by the sin that entered in there of worship of another g0d, and sacrifice with a pig. When the temple was taken back into the hands of the chosen ones to bring that light into the world, it was cleaned and made whole again and the oil was brought to fill the lamp ( menorah) and the light ( of G-d) burned brightly once again.

That light is represented by Yeshua. And I think that this story of the maccabees is almost retold in the crusifixtion and resurection of Yeshua. For he is the Light of the world, the True light of G-d, and the sin of the world snuffed it out, but only for a short while, three days, and then that light shone brightly again, never to be put out!

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim

I have to ask....We have a beautiful Tradition passed down for centuries and accepted for so long people didn't question and didn't aske becuase it was so good.

I'ts called Santa Claus and rather than get into the good and bad let me ask all good Jewish scholars here:

How many realize there are some real holes in the rabbinnical tradition of Channukah?

Please do not "crucify" me if I challenge a popular myth that has been used in Judaism the same way Chrtistmas was used but if you are honest in your Seven Feasts, it's easy to apply Messiah in those Seven.

Eight and you are now into tendentialism. You are adding to G-d what G-d has not added.

Sorry.

If you check you sources and study, you will find there is 'GREAT debate in Judaism over the Oil "idea" and the need of the people to have a "reaffirmation" to give up there hellenism and return to Judaism and and that time....a compromised Priesthood.

Ask yourself as you study the origins, what lineage and did G-d honor the Rededication?

Are you sure?

(smile)

In knowing the truth, I teach it is a holiday not a HOLY DAY and while many have made shammash and candelabras "FIT" there ideas about religion.....

A Menorah is a Menorah is a Menorah and the one I see in heaven has only Seven Branch's.

If you start with that......you will find out how even Judaism invented traditions that may be Jewish, but are not necessarily inspired and when you build a Messianic Application on a Jewish compromise you will find IF G-d lead you into the facts......you might be explaining more than proclaming.

I only ask.....

Anyone Else studied the Roots? Or simple accepted someones Jewish Tradition of it and marketing, without really examing all the historical data?

Not all that is written, is inspired.

Since it is about Light.....I thought to shed some.

Alecheim Shalom

Eben

[Sephania]

I have learned of the 'true' history of it long ago, but that doesn't stop from speaking or remembering the desecration of the temple, and the reclaiming and rededication of it. That part is true, else Yeshua was attending the feast of dedication of what?

I kinda like what the Ruach spoke to me when I made that post above so am not retracting or apologizing for any of it. It is a Shabbat gift of light, on a day when I really need it.


Baruch HaShem!

Thank you Abba! :bow:

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim

We agree more than you know Zayit.

In Moderation not only do I advocate Celebration of Channukah, but I apply my personal experiential application to the holiday.

To Point to Messiah in Prophetic fulfillemnt thus validating the Messianic part of me being a Messianic Jew, I cannot for myself.

You see, I as a Messianic Jew do not POINT to my Judaism or perosnal halachot, kavanugh, or way of Life, I choose as a Messianic Jew to Point to the annointing or "Spirit of G-d" in all that he does in Revealing Messiah to the World and in convicing Humanity of it's depravity with out Moshiach and to Shine as the True Oil that Burns in my soul and shines in my eyes as I talk and glow from the Messiah within who flowws without in aqll He has already declared and now inveils to reveal to the heart of all those who see for Truth , Way, Life.

If he was IN Channukah then I would not serve him for he would be as a liar and I serve a G-d who claims not to be a Truth but The Truth so for me I do not disgree Messiah Went to the Dedication Celebration.

But was is a Channukiah? Of course not, in fact, ANCIENT Messianic Tradition hold that Messiah on that DAY said I am the WAY , The TRUTH , THE LIGHT, standing nect to the Giant Menorah on dedication day and "redirected" the Tradition" of that day to HIMSELF.

If it were about a Temple, frankly, I'll take the Taberacle and teach the children they are housed of the Ruahc ha kodesh in a Tabernacle that won't be desecrated, and re-re-rededicated over and over again but are passing thru to the Holy Tabernale in Shamayim.

Since our Seven Feasts were prescribed by Torah and HOW TO included, I struggle with the currrent "idea" of compromising a Menorah given by G-d inot a Channukiah and by WHOSE authority?

That is my concern.

Because if we can invent those things.....Will we next invent a Channukah bush?

Where the inspiration and "annointing" points to when extended over time is always my concern as criticism was extended to Christians for what they invented as holidays, I have to hold the same criteria to my people else I become a hypocrite or I choose never to judge a christians clelebration again.

Love is easier, but Truth is the best I have found.

I am glad to celebrate the Messiah of Light but Festival of Light reminds me to much of the marketing of messianic religious expression.....when are we marketing and when we we expressing the Light we have recieved in Love and Give in Love.

# I do say, personal Choice is personal and Chanukah is like chanukiah compared to a menorah......it's what you make of it.

Alecheim Shalom

Eben

[LadyGarnetRose]

Shalom Eben...

Hannucka isn't a high holy day, it isn't one of the feasts...

I wonder in 2000 years if Kristal Nact, by this reasoning, will still be remembered, or if it will be forgotten as it is not written down in the Bible...

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim

Kristelnacht shall not be forgotten but neither shall it be morphed into a Holiday, my fathers side is germanic and it is ot the issue of recollection nor rememberance but of Tradition that gets used to promote religion I object to.

G-d does not need my help. I say Never Again on Shoah but I include all peoples who are mass exterminated, even those who are dying today.

If I am only for me what good am I?

Likewise if religious leaders in America invented a miracle to say December 25th will become the National Holiday for Jesus Birthday I would be against it.

We have a Mass of Christ tried once by christyendom and if they have kept it holy for what it was intended then when G-d test it by fire.....as a work....it shall stand.

Channukah stands and reminds just fine, but what is wood hay and stubble, even if "it seems" like a good idea, is not "perfect" or "hits" the mark as what G-d TOLD us to celebrate.

We struggle as it is....are we faithful enough with what we have been given to add more?

So I say enjoy, yes, and recognize Truth and acknowledge error but know that The W-rd of L-rd will endure FOREVER from everlasting to everlasting and the Opinion and the Words of Eben as well as one heck of alot of Jewish opinion set forth as Fact even alot of Christian.....

Will Not.

We are told this and this is why we do waht we do and make a distinction between the holy and profane. Remember and Observe to do all I command you.

Remember and Observe

When Messiah come and he shall sooner than 2000 years from now, he will take rememberance from us as surely as we will not remember those who will cry out from everlasting to everlasting the absence of G-d and torment in thier life. The Joy will fill in the chasm of our tears and weeping will turn to dancing so the question is not what will happen 2000 years from now

but b'h Thank G-D it will happen.

I do already for the days are evil and the time is shortened and the Time of Goyim is closing and we will see KLAL Yisrael saved.

Eben

[psalms66]

This is what I'm talking about! I love getting down and deep into the "why's" of why we celebrate what we do. For that reason we gave up the whole Christmas tradition of Santa Claus a few years ago. For us, that was a HUGE step out of the norm and we were called "abusive" for "depriving" our children of the lie. :confused: Strange... anyway...

Eben, you said, "Likewise if religious leaders in America invented a miracle to say December 25th will become the National Holiday for Jesus Birthday I would be against it."

Are you saying then that the story of the re-cleansing and re-dedication of the Temple as recorded in Maccabees was invented? Or that the celebration was man's diea? Because I see that - I don't see it listed as one of the feasts to "be remembered" either. I also don't quite see what it could hurt...

But then people thought that of Santa Claus too so???

Guess I"m really intrigued now with this even more!

[SpiritPsalmist]

John 10:22-38 22 Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter, 23 and Yeshua was walking around inside the Temple area, in Shlomo's Colonnade.

:scratch: Yeshua did not seem to address it's not being one of the appointed feasts.

[Shimshon]

sorry, please delete

[Torah]

I"mcurious too about celebrating this with my children for the first time. I bought a little brass menorah candle holder but I have NO clue about how to celebrate it. I know the story (vaguely) but nothing else. And I googled it but wowzers.... TOO much information to sort through!!!

Thanks!
Candle lighting and more.
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday7.htm (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday7.htm)

http://www.aish.com/chanukahguide/chanukahguidedefault/Animated_Menorah.asp (http://www.aish.com/chanukahguide/chanukahguidedefault/Animated_Menorah.asp)

Candle lighting with blessings
http://www.aish.com/chanukahguide/chanukahguidedefault/Lighting_Instructions.asp (http://www.aish.com/chanukahguide/chanukahguidedefault/Lighting_Instructions.asp)


Chanukah Songs
http://www.aish.com/chanukahmultimedia/chanukahmultimediadefault/Chanukah_Songs_.asp#1 (http://www.aish.com/chanukahmultimedia/chanukahmultimediadefault/Chanukah_Songs_.asp#1)

http://www.chanuka.com/songs.shtml (http://www.chanuka.com/songs.shtml)
---
HANUKKAH ACTIVITIES
http://www.torahbytes.org/hanukkah/han-acts.htm#Treasure (http://www.torahbytes.org/hanukkah/han-acts.htm#Treasure)

http://www.torahbytes.org/hanukkah/hanukkah.htm (http://www.torahbytes.org/hanukkah/hanukkah.htm)

Lots more

http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/aish?q=lighting%20candles&sa=Aish.com+-+Google+Search&domains=www.aish.com&sitesearch=www.aish.com (http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/aish?q=lighting%20candles&sa=Aish.com+-+Google+Search&domains=www.aish.com&sitesearch=www.aish.com)

[HadassahSukkot]

From what I can see on this thread as well as a few others, there seems to be a big "hang up" on tradition not explicitly lain out in scripture.

There's nothing wrong with tradition that DOES NOT supercede scripture.

Just think about it, what kind of simple traditions one has in their family from how the dinner table is dressed for shabbat, to what we wear on shabbat, to what we eat on shabbat or the holidays... to how we dress our shoes or button our coats or how we brush our teeth and dress our hair ;)

Really think about the things that our parents hand down to us and how we go and implement our own homes - up to and including how we cook certain items.

Think about it before a child asks "Mommy/Daddy, why do you do ______ this way?"

"Well, my parents did and i got used to it.." or whatever.


In fact, as far as our own personal Halacha, how we came to do what we do- was it the tradition of our forefathers, or the man/woman who discipled us? Or was it that we read a rabbi's commentary and said "whoo-rah! I'm doin' that!"?

Really think about it.


While there are some bad things that came with the Maccabees (Compromised preisthood) - there were some good things, and things that enabled Y'shua to come and be present, accounted for and examined in the Temple - things that couldn't have been done if it was not rededicated.

Another thing... It is written when the temple was destroyed and there is a fast day.. should we also not keep it and mourn it?

I mean, there's no win or loss if we don't- except on our own part. These are the non essential feast and fast days... but we do see Y'shua taking part in scripture, though it's not implicitly spelled out for the Greek/western mindset to say "ohhhhhhh look here he is spinning dreidels and lighting the menorah" -- but he is present and commenting and not forbidding, which is markedly different from many things He could have been doing instead!

Remember the passage:

Romans 14
5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. 8 If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead. 10 So why do you condemn another believer ? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For the Scriptures say,
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bend to me,
and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.’”
12 Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. 13 So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall.

[Sephania]

Bumping because it's almost here!

[HadassahSukkot]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/Emoticons/signs/bump.gif