Learning about the Lutheran Church

[Crom]

Greetings:

I am new to this forum having joined just the other evening. I am searching for Christian Fellowship and also hoping to learn more about various denominations.

I have set my foundation in Christ 1-year ago; before this time I was not an active Christian in any way. I had been raised and educated in the Catholic church my entire youth, yet rejected her early as I knew even then that the corruption lie deep in what I realize now to be the lack of true teachings of the Gospel.

I am Protestant. I am very happy about this. I have been studying Calvin, Pastor Spurgeon, C.S. Lewis, and most of all, Martin Luther.

I am posting in this forum in an attempt to further learn more about Lutheranism. I have yet to decide upon a denomination and I feel the Lutheran church could hold truest to the Protestant\Luther ideal and interpretation of the Lord's Word.

Any incite and information regarding this will be greatly appreciated. Thank-you in advance.

Regards,
Crom

[LutherNut]

Greetings:

I am new to this forum having joined just the other evening. I am searching for Christian Fellowship and also hoping to learn more about various denominations.

I have set my foundation in Christ 1-year ago; before this time I was not an active Christian in any way. I had been raised and educated in the Catholic church my entire youth, yet rejected her early as I knew even then that the corruption lie deep in what I realize now to be the lack of true teachings of the Gospel.

I am Protestant. I am very happy about this. I have been studying Calvin, Pastor Spurgeon, C.S. Lewis, and most of all, Martin Luther.

I am posting in this forum in an attempt to further learn more about Lutheranism. I have yet to decide upon a denomination and I feel the Lutheran church could hold truest to the Protestant\Luther ideal and interpretation of the Lord's Word.

Any incite and information regarding this will be greatly appreciated. Thank-you in advance.

Regards,
Crom

Perhaps if you asked specific questions we could help you better. There are a few Lutheran pastors who post here and I'm sure they could answer your questions for you.:)

[LilLamb219]

I have yet to decide upon a denomination and I feel the Lutheran church could hold truest to the Protestant\Luther ideal and interpretation of the Lord's Word.

I agree with that!! Plus, I agree with what LutherNut wrote in that if you ask something specific, you'll get more responses.

Have you checked out the FAQ's or the What We Believe at the LCMS and WELS websites?

[Jim47]

Welcome to the forum Crom. There is also some good reading in the main forum as well. Feel free to join th discussions or start a thread yourself. :wave:

[Studeclunker]

May I be so bold as to suggest the radio program The White Horse Inn? It's on around nine o'clock on either Saturday or Sunday night.

If you would like some insight into the Luthern Doctrine, perhaps you should start with a Luthern church. LCMS churches are generally good about having a comprehensive library available to their congregation. If you honestly wish to learn what it is to be Luthern, this is the best way.

Look in the yellow pages under private schools LCMS. This (though not always) usually will provide you with a place to start your search for a really good church library. If you are so fortunate as to live in or near a city with a Concordia University, that's another source.

Your question isn't an easy one to answer. I've found though, that conservative Lutherans are willing to answer hard questions. Just be ready for big scary words (LOL);) and don't let them scare you away. They do mean well.



If you are originally from the (Roman?) Catholic church, you will find Luthern churches familliar and comfortable. In fact, Lutherns have a nickname: Shirt-tail Catholics. Oi!:doh: Doctrine and structure is where the major shift occured. Look in your local Library for books on the Reformation Movement.

[Confess]

The LCMS has a great radio program called Issues Etc.
www . kfuo . org / ie _ main . htm

Because I am a newbie, this site does not allow me to post external posts. So I added spaces in it.

This program is excellent for learning what Lutherans believe.

[jcj3803]

The LCMS has a great radio program called Issues Etc.
www . kfuo . org / ie _ main . htm

Because I am a newbie, this site does not allow me to post external posts. So I added spaces in it.

This program is excellent for learning what Lutherans believe.
Yeah, KFUO is a great streaming audio Web site. You can listen live or replay archived programs. Lots of doctrinal answers on whatever they call their "ask the pastor" program.

[porterross]

Welcome Crom. :wave:

Have you read the Book of Concord? I can't think of a better place to start if you're trying to develop insight that will help lead to specific, more in depth questions about the Lutheran Doctrine.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/

Good luck.

[TheCosmicGospel]

Hey brother,

Wish you well n your quest. Luther may never be matched. Spurgeon was good. But not a theologian. At the heart of Calvin beats a lawyer.

Peace,
Cosmic

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I'm fairly new to the Lutheran church, too. Although I've been studying Lutheran theology and such since Kindergarten (if not before) and unlike some here (LOL), I got a 100% on all the "Are you really a Lutheran?" surveys (so there!).


Anyway, I spent about 5 years in Catholicism and grew up in another Protestant denomination (I'm a PK - a pastor's kid). So, if I can give a perspective, just ask away in this thread....



Catholic and Lutheran:


Catholics and Lutherans are very close - in fact, a lot of Lutherans see themselves as very much a part of that Tradition and history (as do I). A LOT will seem very familiar - the basic order of service, the church year, the vestments, a lot of emphasis on the Eucharist, an embrace of Tradition. You may even find lots that cross themselves (not always as CAtholics do, however - took me months to notice that, LOL) and whenever a Lutheran hears, "the Lord be with you," they too just say, "And also with you," LOL.


IMHO, Lutherans are a far more conservative and perhaps even timid people. They'd rather err on saying too little than too much. There is a very strong sense of humility in Lutheranism (one of the major things that appeals to me about it), a willingness to say "I don't know" and to accept tensions, balances without having to make it all make sense. In most cases, you'll find that they are Catholic - TO A POINT, and then Catholics will impute their unique Tradition when Lutherans will say, "....ahhhh, wait a minute, I'm not sure we can be too dogmatic about that."



Example of different rubrics:


Let me give you an example (simplifing a tad) from an issue BIG to Lutherans and Catholics but about which they disagree.


Matthew 26:26-28

"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to the disciples and said, 'Take, eat, this is my body.' And he took the cup and when he had given thanks he gave it to them saying, 'Drink of it all of you, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (see also Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20)


1 Corinthians 11:23-29

The Lord Jesus on the night when ee was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats or drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."


Lutherans just say "yes." Just as Orthodox, Anglicans and just as the CC did before 1215. Ahha, the meaning of is is is. Yes, there IS Christ real, literal, physical Body and Blood - cuz it says so. And that IS the testimony of the ECF. Yup. Lutherans embrace Real Presense in all it's power. By faith. As it says. No need for explainations.


But in 1215, Catholics just couldn't leave it alone!
CC: "But how can the bread and wine be there, too?"
Lutheran: "I don't know, it just is."
CC: "But anyone knows it can't be 100% Body and Blood and also be bread and wine!" Either it's 100% Body and Blood or it's it's 100% bread and wine! Logic just tells us that!
Lutheran: The Bible says it's both.
CC: It CAN'T say it's both, that makes no sense!
Lutheran: Maybe not. That's okay.
CC: Aristotle had this theory about accidents, that things can appear to have the outward characteristics of something and yet not be that at all!
Lutheran: That's nice. Paul says it's Body and Blood, and it's bread and wine.
CC: Aristotle was this like BRILLIANT man, a pagan but very smart! His theory kinda makes a lot of sense here. Maybe it's like totally Body and Blood and it just SEEMS like it's also bread and wine.
Lutheran: Maybe. But I think I'll just stick with St. Paul on this one...
CC: But Aristotle was a really smart guy!!
Lutheran: Okay. St. Paul was inspired by God; I think I'll just stick with what God said throught him.
CC: It just makes no sense that it's BOTH! It makes no sense! It HAS to be one or the other, unless you're saying it's a 50/50 deal.
Lutheran: No. I think it's 100% the Body and Blood of Christ. But I think it's altogether bread and wine, too. I don't understand how that can be, but that's okay. I'll leave the physics of all this to mystery.

Nor could the Calvinists!


Calvinist: You're both nuts. God is not a god of confusion like that. When you get the stuff at your supplier, what are you buying?
Lutheran: Um, we get this tasteless little waffers with a nice thing stamped on it from Concordia Publishing House. Mr & Mrs. Grossnoser donate the wine, I think they get it by the case at Costco.
Calvinist: Well, there you are!!!!! You've got a waffer from CPH and cheap wine from Costco! What is the big mystery here?
Lutheran: Well, Christ said that it IS His Body and Blood. Paul makes that point, too.
Calvinist: Yeah, He said He was the door, too! Come on, trust those tastebuds! And if not, get out a microscope - put some hamburger on one slide and some of that bread you got from CPH on the other - and see if they are the same!
Lutheran: Well, I just know what Jesus and St. Paul said. I don't know the physics here, and that's okay.
Calvinist: But logically, it CANNOT be both! Not at the same time! Isn't that obvious? Let's be logical here!
Lutheran: I just know what the Scriptures say, and I'm okay with that. I don't need to understand the physics of all of that. Yeah, I know the the senses say it's just bread and wine - and I think bread and wine are there, but God's Holy Word and my faith say there's more there.
Calvinist: Lutherans are a frustrating bunch!
Lutheran: Aren't we?

Point: Both Catholics and Calvinists dogmatically deal with the physics. Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and Catholics before 1215 were cool just leaving it as mystery that we don't NEED to explain in terms of physics. That applies to a number of things. Lutherans are a conservative and humble people, desiring to accept God's authority in God's Word and willing to do so, including when it means an embrace of mystery or tensions (the whole law/gospel thing) or a balance. More than in any other denomination, a Lutheran pastor will say "I don't know," or perhaps "here's my opinion about that." God's authority is taken very seriously.


I hope this helps a bit.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

[LutherNut]

I'm fairly new to the Lutheran church, too. Although I've been studying Lutheran theology and such since Kindergarten (if not before) and unlike some here (LOL), I got a 100% on all the "Are you really a Lutheran?" surveys (so there!).


Anyway, I spent about 5 years in Catholicism and grew up in another Protestant denomination (I'm a PK - a pastor's kid). So, if I can give a perspective, just ask away in this thread....



Catholic and Lutheran:


Catholics and Lutherans are very close - in fact, a lot of Lutherans see themselves as very much a part of that Tradition and history (as do I). A LOT will seem very familiar - the basic order of service, the church year, the vestments, a lot of emphasis on the Eucharist, an embrace of Tradition. You may even find lots that cross themselves (not always as CAtholics do, however - took me months to notice that, LOL) and whenever a Lutheran hears, "the Lord be with you," they too just say, "And also with you," LOL.


IMHO, Lutherans are a far more conservative and perhaps even timid people. They'd rather err on saying too little than too much. There is a very strong sense of humility in Lutheranism (one of the major things that appeals to me about it), a willingness to say "I don't know" and to accept tensions, balances without having to make it all make sense. In most cases, you'll find that they are Catholic - TO A POINT, and then Catholics will impute their unique Tradition when Lutherans will say, "....ahhhh, wait a minute, I'm not sure we can be too dogmatic about that."



Example of different rubrics:


Let me give you an example (simplifing a tad) from an issue BIG to Lutherans and Catholics but about which they disagree.


Matthew 26:26-28

"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to the disciples and said, 'Take, eat, this is my body.' And he took the cup and when he had given thanks he gave it to them saying, 'Drink of it all of you, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (see also Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20)


1 Corinthians 11:23-29

The Lord Jesus on the night when ee was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats or drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."


Lutherans just say "yes." Just as Orthodox, Anglicans and just as the CC did before 1215. Ahha, the meaning of is is is. Yes, there IS Christ real, literal, physical Body and Blood - cuz it says so. And that IS the testimony of the ECF. Yup. Lutherans embrace Real Presense in all it's power. By faith. As it says. No need for explainations.


But in 1215, Catholics just couldn't leave it alone!
CC: "But how can the bread and wine be there, too?"
Lutheran: "I don't know, it just is."
CC: "But anyone knows it can't be 100% Body and Blood and also be bread and wine!" Either it's 100% Body and Blood or it's it's 100% bread and wine! Logic just tells us that!
Lutheran: The Bible says it's both.
CC: It CAN'T say it's both, that makes no sense!
Lutheran: Maybe not. That's okay.
CC: Aristotle had this theory about accidents, that things can appear to have the outward characteristics of something and yet not be that at all!
Lutheran: That's nice. Paul says it's Body and Blood, and it's bread and wine.
CC: Aristotle was this like BRILLIANT man, a pagan but very smart! His theory kinda makes a lot of sense here. Maybe it's like totally Body and Blood and it just SEEMS like it's also bread and wine.
Lutheran: Maybe. But I think I'll just stick with St. Paul on this one...
CC: But Aristotle was a really smart guy!!
Lutheran: Okay. St. Paul was inspired by God; I think I'll just stick with what God said throught him.
CC: It just makes no sense that it's BOTH! It makes no sense! It HAS to be one or the other, unless you're saying it's a 50/50 deal.
Lutheran: No. I think it's 100% the Body and Blood of Christ. But I think it's altogether bread and wine, too. I don't understand how that can be, but that's okay. I'll leave the physics of all this to mystery.

Nor could the Calvinists!


Calvinist: You're both nuts. God is not a god of confusion like that. When you get the stuff at your supplier, what are you buying?
Lutheran: Um, we get this tasteless little waffers with a nice thing stamped on it from Concordia Publishing House. Mr & Mrs. Grossnoser donate the wine, I think they get it by the case at Costco.
Calvinist: Well, there you are!!!!! You've got a waffer from CPH and cheap wine from Costco! What is the big mystery here?
Lutheran: Well, Christ said that it IS His Body and Blood. Paul makes that point, too.
Calvinist: Yeah, He said He was the door, too! Come on, trust those tastebuds! And if not, get out a microscope - put some hamburger on one slide and some of that bread you got from CPH on the other - and see if they are the same!
Lutheran: Well, I just know what Jesus and St. Paul said. I don't know the physics here, and that's okay.
Calvinist: But logically, it CANNOT be both! Not at the same time! Isn't that obvious? Let's be logical here!
Lutheran: I just know what the Scriptures say, and I'm okay with that. I don't need to understand the physics of all of that. Yeah, I know the the senses say it's just bread and wine - and I think bread and wine are there, but God's Holy Word and my faith say there's more there.
Calvinist: Lutherans are a frustrating bunch!
Lutheran: Aren't we?

Point: Both Catholics and Calvinists dogmatically deal with the physics. Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and Catholics before 1215 were cool just leaving it as mystery that we don't NEED to explain in terms of physics. That applies to a number of things. Lutherans are a conservative and humble people, desiring to accept God's authority in God's Word and willing to do so, including when it means an embrace of mystery or tensions (the whole law/gospel thing) or a balance. More than in any other denomination, a Lutheran pastor will say "I don't know," or perhaps "here's my opinion about that." God's authority is taken very seriously.


I hope this helps a bit.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaliforniaJosiah again.
I'm impressed!

I particularly like the Roman Catholic argument you made. "But anyone knows it can't be 100% Body and Blood and also be bread and wine!" Either it's 100% Body and Blood or it's it's 100% bread and wine! Logic just tells us that!" I wonder if they use the same argument about the two natures of Christ, 100% God and 100% Man. ;)