been gone a while..."quick" ?: was Yeshua made unclean?

[By Grace]

Hi Folks,

I've been gone a while--I miss you guys and think of you often! Life's gotten hectic with the new business, and most of my "spare" time is focused on my family.

I recently joined a small Bible study group of a few women in my area who are MJ or are at least very interested in Hebraic roots. Last week we were studying FFOZ's B'rit Chadasha parsha for the week, and came across a question in Matt. Ch 8.

Torah says that anyone who touches a leper or dead body becomes unclean. Yeshua touched both. Obviously, he healed in the process. But according to Torah, he became unclean, right?

I realize that "unclean" and "sinful" are two completely different things. But I never thought of Yeshua as being "unclean." I suppose that's not really a problem, since some of the holy articles were considered "unclean", too, in that touching them resulted in one being required to bathe. They were unclean b/c they were so holy, and shouldn't be allowed to expose other people to that level of anointing. Is that the kind of thing going on here?

Thanks in advance for your comments and contributions. My group will be meeting again tomorrow, and we all said we'd research the question further during the week.

Shabbat Shalom!

Jill

[Sephania]

Hello, nice to see you, I hope you can come back more often. It's nice to have more people on here. :)


I have to ask you for scripture to back up your statement that Yeshua touched both,please.


Torah says that anyone who touches a leper or dead body becomes unclean. Yeshua touched both. Obviously, he healed in the process. But according to Torah, he became unclean, right?


Yes, Yeshua touched the leper and he instantly was healed, and made clean.

But as far as touching a dead person? I know he didn't touch lazerus, nor the widow's son, but he did take the hand of the little girl, Jairus' daughter.

The two men had already been established dead, Lazerus was in the grave four days and the widows son was in a coffin, but the little girl had just 'expired'. Yeshua said this:


"Don’t weep. She isn’t dead, but sleeping."


So he even said she wasn't dead . So I don't see him touching a dead body which causes defilement.

Uncleaness is different I think than the way of leprosy. It was something that if you touched it, it could kill you.

Now there was the woman of the issue of blood of 18 years and she touched him, and in doing so could be considered as making him unclean and he might have had to bath, but since she was healed as soon as she touched him it becomes no longer in question , doesn't it?

[HadassahSukkot]

Aha, but the woman "with an issue of blood" - touched his Tzitziot, and that doesn't qualify for him to be unclean, as healing is in his kanaph (his tallit corners)..

I seem to remember reading a discussion in the talmud about tzitziot touching things like the ground or people who are unclean grasping them, but unless the person who is ritually unclean touches you (as in your arm or clothed body itself) you aren't considered unclean.

Tzitzit are regarded like unto a Torah scroll, it can't be defiled... unless it's removed from protection and desecrated. (like what the romans and russians and nazi's did to torah scrolls and talliot.. :()

[Sephania]

Yes, the promised arising with healing in his wings. :)


I was just mentioning it to show a difference between uncleaness and defilement. A woman of a certain age becomes unclean once a month but being defiled is something different like rape. Though the words have the same root. :)

[visionary]

Only God can make one unclean or without sin. Since Yeshua is God, approaching Him is in itself each step closer to cleanliness and godliness. Since He is the only one who can do this, there is no "unclean" touching Yeshua. His healing powers radiates from Him. Dead bodies are brought back to life, and do not remain dead at His touch. Lepers are healed at His word.

[By Grace]

I have to ask you for scripture to back up your statement that Yeshua touched both,please.

Well, the leper was in Matt. 8:

Mat 8:2 Then a man afflicted with tzara`at came, kneeled down in front of him and said, "Sir, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
Mat 8:3 Yeshua reached out his hand, touched him and said, "I am willing! Be cleansed!" And at once he was cleansed from his tzara`at.

The leper isn't officially clean--according to Torah--until he has been examined by the cohen. That's why Yeshua told him to go be examined.

And we've already mentioned the little girl:

Mat 9:18 While he was talking, an official came in, kneeled down in front of him and said, "My daughter has just died. But if you come and lay your hand on her, she will live."
Mat 9:19 Yeshua, with his talmidim, got up and followed him.

<snip>

Mat 9:23 When Yeshua arrived at the official's house and saw the flute-players, and the crowd in an uproar,
Mat 9:24 he said, "Everybody out! The girl isn't dead, she's only sleeping!" And they jeered at him.
Mat 9:25 But after the people had been put outside, he entered and took hold of the girl's hand, and she got up.

Mar 5:41 Taking her by the hand, he said to her, "Talita, kumi!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!").
Mar 5:42 At once the girl got up and began walking around; she was twelve years old. Everybody was utterly amazed.

In both cases, the person is healed after the touch. Yeshua says she's "sleeping", but that's certainly not the first time death has been referred to as sleeping. Look at Luke's description:

Luk 8:54 But he took her by the hand, called out, "Little girl, get up!"
Luk 8:55 and her spirit returned. She stood up at once, and he directed that something be given her to eat.

Here, Scripture actually states that her spirit returned to her, which means it had already left.

At any rate, even if Yeshua did become unclean, why is that such a bad thing? He became unclean just in the nature of the fact he took on human form and walked among us (as one person in our group pointed out). He was spit on by the Romans, which very possibly made him unclean, too. Even the red heifer made the cohens unclean...

Num 19:7 Then the cohen is to wash his clothes and himself in water, after which he may re-enter the camp; but the cohen will remain unclean until evening.
Num 19:8 The person who burned up the heifer is to wash his clothes and himself in water, but he will remain unclean until evening.
Num 19:9 A man who is clean is to collect the ashes of the heifer and store them outside the camp in a clean place. They are to be kept for the community of the people of Isra'el to prepare water for purification from sin.
Num 19:10 The one who collected the ashes of the heifer is to wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. For the people of Isra'el and for the foreigner staying with them this will be a permanent regulation.

But they become clean after a period of time.

I guess my question boils down to: Did Yeshua defy Torah (by "overcoming" it, not "denying" it, if you kwim), or does even this part of Torah apply to Yeshua? In which case, he became unclean so that we could become clean. All through his ministry and especially in the course of his crucifixion, he took our uncleanness upon himself, and left us clean in his place. Then he washed away our uncleanness through his resurrection. But at no point did Torah not apply in context. Does that make any sense?

[HadassahSukkot]

Well, remember the time that Y'shua was baptised by John? What was done there by G-d declaring what He did, was declaring Y'shua a priest.

Y'shua does have Levite blood, but I am still trying to figure out how in the world that wound in, but I know it did from the evidence of Elisheva being Mary's nearest cousin.

Anyhow, remember that Y'shua is a Priest in the order of Malkitzedek, so he can do things that many others hadn't been able to do. He healed and declared clean, but also sent the people to show themselves in the Temple and be declared clean, do the mandated sacrifices and give glory to Yah.

So he did follow the "rules" so to speak.. but remember there were also some rabbinic as well as literal in scripture things that Y'shua had to do- to be declared messiah. He did all of those things, except for declaring His kingdom on earth and subduing the nations. That will happen next time around.