I commited murder?

[lsg03]

A scary thought, but before my husband and I were seriously looking into Orthodoxy I was on OTC. I didn't realize the pill was a HUGE no-no in the Orthodox realm until I did a little research on the internet. Someone on CF had posted on a thread that the taking the pill was equal to having an abortion. I instantly felt like I had really done something horrible. What if you didn't know?

Any thoughts or comments? Books?

[FrAnthony]

A scary thought, but before my husband and I were seriously looking into Orthodoxy I was on OTC. I didn't realize the pill was a HUGE no-no in the Orthodox realm until I did a little research on the internet. Someone on CF had posted on a thread that the taking the pill was equal to having an abortion. I instantly felt like I had really done something horrible. What if you didn't know?

Any thoughts or comments? Books?

Confession is a wonderful Sacrament...talk to your Priest.

[InnerPhyre]

It is possible while taking the pill for conception to occur. When this happens, the pill prevents implantation of the zygote into the uterine wall and it leaves the body during your next period. That's not to say that this happens a lot or often. Estrogen/Progesterone pills prevent ovulation for the most part, so it isn't ordinary for an egg to be fertilized. They also increase the thickness of the mucous around the cervix, which makes it more difficult for sperm to reach an egg if one is released.

So yes the pill can be abortifacient, but the honest truth is that many pro-life websites and other sources (for the record, I am staunchly pro-life) will exagerrate the likelihood of such an event occuring.

[ThePilgrim]

I heard somewhere that while on the pill, an abortion like that occurs on average every two years. I would talk to your priest about it and confession, but if it happened, you didn't do it intentionally.

Grace and peace,
John

[Xpycoctomos]

It is possible while taking the pill for conception to occur. When this happens, the pill prevents implantation of the zygote into the uterine wall and it leaves the body during your next period. That's not to say that this happens a lot or often. Estrogen/Progesterone pills prevent ovulation for the most part, so it isn't ordinary for an egg to be fertilized. They also increase the thickness of the mucous around the cervix, which makes it more difficult for sperm to reach an egg if one is released.

So yes the pill can be abortifacient, but the honest truth is that many pro-life websites and other sources (for the record, I am staunchly pro-life) will exagerrate the likelihood of such an event occuring.
But the entire point is that this can happen so the pill really can't be an option for a Christian that is sexually active.

That's not to convict you at all lsg03... not at ALL. Our medical institution NEVER talks about that and you would be hard pressed to get that info out of your doctor unless you corner him/her about it. My wife and I were fortunate enough to have asked the question in the first place (we'd never even thought of it... I went to a very conservative pro-life Church all of my life and the Pill is not at ALL taboo). It's lack of accessibility to this information.

I must say that while I do have my criticisms for the RCs stance on BC in general, we would do well to follow them in their view on the Pill. But, unfortunately, many orthodox treat it like it's no big deal... 1) because they don't know enough about it (fault of our Church) and 2) many don't WANT to know enough about it (Fault of ourselves) so we stick our heads in the sand.

It's a serious issue.

Honestly, I don't say this to make you feel guilty. You should be commended for looking further into this and following your christian instinct. So, I wouldn't treat this as an abortion because there is no intent.

It's like the babie Themldahide babies (what is that?).... that drug that was taken by pregnant women in the 60s/70s (??) for morning sickness and then later they found out that these drugs were seriously deforming their babies. Was it a sin for them to take that medecine? No, because they didn't know... and you (lik 90% of the world) had no idea about the possible (but real) abortive effects of the Pill.

Well, I will get going. i hope I didn't offend you. that was not my intent. It's just an issue that is too often swept under the rug by Christian America and I don't want this to happen in TAWE when you are coming here asking seriously.

God bless and you welcome to TAW!

John

[irishseventysix]

It's Thalidomide.

What these guys have said is helpful. But maybe this point should be more clear:

There is NO WAY that you know whether or not your taking the Pill ever caused an abortion.

And unless you get some sort of special revelation to that effect, it is my opinion that you need not feel guilty about this.

And yes, absolutely talk to your priest about this matter.

[Akathist]

:hug: Reading between the lines I hear pain.

We are not the people to ask. Please ask the Orthodox Priest at the parish you attend. If you are not yet attending an Orthodox Church, start by finding one and going.

We can help you find one near you if needed.

I took OTC once. I regretted it at the time and have often wondered about if there would have been a child. At the time I was protestant and my regret was psychological and not based on religious teachings because I grew up in an environment where abortion was not considered a sin because a baby wasn't a "person" until after the first trimester of pregnancy.

When I did my first confession upon conversion to Orthodoxy I confessed this sin formally and received formal absolution for it and for all the other sins I confessed that day. That has been such a great healing for me.

I wish the same for you!

:crosseo:

[Paisley]

It is amazing what the medical community won't tell us. It is their fault, not yours. We live and learn. I had taken b/c pills for the first year of our marriage. I did not do it willingly, as I remember, but my new husband was not ready at that time, and wanted it. Whatever, we couldn't have our own anyway, so now that is all passed. We adopted two boys.

[izarya]

I guess wearing a condom falls into this as well. From my experience, no matter what precautions you take, if God means for a child to come into this world through you, there's nothing you can do about it! I wore condoms and my wife used birth control methods and look up there by my name, 8 Children!

[Xpycoctomos]

It's Thalidomide.

What these guys have said is helpful. But maybe this point should be more clear:

There is NO WAY that you know whether or not your taking the Pill ever caused an abortion.

And unless you get some sort of special revelation to that effect, it is my opinion that you need not feel guilty about this.

And yes, absolutely talk to your priest about this matter.
Very true... however, SINCE the Orthdoox Church IS aware of this... this subject, I beleive, shoudl be more aptly addressed by our Church. That fact is that "it might not happen" or "it probably won't happen" doesn't make it "kind of okay".

[Xpycoctomos]

I guess wearing a condom falls into this as well. From my experience, no matter what precautions you take, if God means for a child to come into this world through you, there's nothing you can do about it! I wore condoms and my wife used birth control methods and look up there by my name, 8 Children!
Condoms are not abortafacients. they can't be (unless I'm missing something here).

What is being discussed here is not a philosphical talk about the implications of purposely trying to avoid a pregnancy. It's a very practical talk about the possible effects of the Pill on a fertalized egg.

[Xpycoctomos]

:hug: Reading between the lines I hear pain.

We are not the people to ask. Please ask the Orthodox Priest at the parish you attend. If you are not yet attending an Orthodox Church, start by finding one and going.

We can help you find one near you if needed.

I took OTC once. I regretted it at the time and have often wondered about if there would have been a child. At the time I was protestant and my regret was psychological and not based on religious teachings because I grew up in an environment where abortion was not considered a sin because a baby wasn't a "person" until after the first trimester of pregnancy.

When I did my first confession upon conversion to Orthodoxy I confessed this sin formally and received formal absolution for it and for all the other sins I confessed that day. That has been such a great healing for me.

I wish the same for you!

:crosseo:
Yes, you should definitely talk to someone more qualified (like a priest you can talk person to person with) than us about the spiritual aspect. But there is nothing wrong with coming here and asking about the actual effects of the Pill. However, we also aren't the end all to medical knowledge (lol) so it's not a bad idea to research this yourself.

The only thing I am afraid of is that the priest you go to may suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Pill. This is embarrassing and I hope that this is aptly addressed in the seminaries.

[lsg03]

Thanks to all that responded. I just really didn't think about any of this until the last month. The more I learned the worse I felt.

Xpycoctomos, your post was very helpful.

irishseventysix, your absolutely right, I don't know. I'm not going to obsess over it, just scary to think about it.

Xenia, there is a little pain. I had no idea and I had been on the pill a long time. I have a daughter the the thought that I might have killed a life forming in the womb was troubling...is troubling.:sigh:

I will talk to my priest and see what he thinks I should do.

You all have made me feel very welcome at TAW.
Thank you all! :hug:

[zhilan]

Just remember that there is no sin that God cannot forgive. Don't dwell on what you might or might not have done in the past, just confess it and it will be forgiven and focus on the future.

[Xpycoctomos]

irishseventysix, your absolutely right, I don't know. I'm not going to obsess over it, just scary to think about it.


Good. I know I am coming across as obsessive and like I am beating a dead horse here. Confession is sooooooo wonderful for the soul and the mind as well... it forces us to put things to rest that (pre-confession era lol) our mind would not let us forget.

God bless you.

Oh, and I didn't realize you were Orthodox. until this posting. I kept htinking "why does everyone say to go to her priest? She's not Orthodox"... the I saw that you are! God bless Sister in Christ!

John

[irishseventysix]

Very true... however, SINCE the Orthdoox Church IS aware of this... this subject, I beleive, shoudl be more aptly addressed by our Church. That fact is that "it might not happen" or "it probably won't happen" doesn't make it "kind of okay".

No argument here...:thumbsup:

[InnerPhyre]

Just to clarify, I wasn't arguing in favor of using the pill at all. I was just saying that what's done is done and the incidence of a conception taking place is low. Some people who don't know that this sort of thing can happen are sometimes confronted by over zealous people with good intentions who will then tell them things like "you were probably conceiving every month and aborted all those kids" and that is just flat out wrong.

What's done is done. Did this happen in your case? You don't know and probably never will, but know that it is not a common occurance, so just move on from here and go to confession when you can.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Thanks to all that responded. I just really didn't think about any of this until the last month. The more I learned the worse I felt.

Xpycoctomos, your post was very helpful.

irishseventysix, your absolutely right, I don't know. I'm not going to obsess over it, just scary to think about it.

Xenia, there is a little pain. I had no idea and I had been on the pill a long time. I have a daughter the the thought that I might have killed a life forming in the womb was troubling...is troubling.:sigh:

I will talk to my priest and see what he thinks I should do.

You all have made me feel very welcome at TAW.
Thank you all! :hug:
Just remember one thing: there is no sin that is so big that our loving and merciful God won't forgive a repentant heart, and it certainly sounds to me like you have a repentant heart! I would talk to your priest, grieve a little if you need to, and then trust that God loves you and forgives you immensely!

[Xpycoctomos]

Just to clarify, I wasn't arguing in favor of using the pill at all. I was just saying that what's done is done and the incidence of a conception taking place is low. Some people who don't know that this sort of thing can happen are sometimes confronted by over zealous people with good intentions who will then tell them things like "you were probably conceiving every month and aborted all those kids" and that is just flat out wrong.

What's done is done. Did this happen in your case? You don't know and probably never will, but know that it is not a common occurance, so just move on from here and go to confession when you can.
***You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to InnerPhyre again.***

[NyssaTheHobbit]

I'm in a similar situation....I took the Pill for years because of a medical condition. I'd hear rumors of it causing abortions, but just dismissed it as biased rhetoric. Then last month, I found an article in a secular medical journal, posted on the Web, suggesting that it could actually happen, and women should be told about it.

The problem is....What about those of us who have to take the Pill for medical reasons? I remember Lotar posting that some priests have suggested using a condom while on the Pill.

As for me....Well, I'm going to take a chance and try to have another baby. Please pray for me, because when I'm off the Pill, that time of the month is nasty and emotionally trying.....

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I'm in a similar situation....I took the Pill for years because of a medical condition. I'd hear rumors of it causing abortions, but just dismissed it as biased rhetoric. Then last month, I found an article in a secular medical journal, posted on the Web, suggesting that it could actually happen, and women should be told about it.

The problem is....What about those of us who have to take the Pill for medical reasons? I remember Lotar posting that some priests have suggested using a condom while on the Pill.

As for me....Well, I'm going to take a chance and try to have another baby. Please pray for me, because when I'm off the Pill, that time of the month is nasty and emotionally trying.....
This would definitely fall under the "talk to your priest" area.

That is what is so great about the Orthodox Church; it is a hospital where the priests are doctors who subscirbe spiritual prescriptions for each one of us.

[PrincessMommy]

I'm in a similar situation....I took the Pill for years because of a medical condition. I'd hear rumors of it causing abortions, but just dismissed it as biased rhetoric. Then last month, I found an article in a secular medical journal, posted on the Web, suggesting that it could actually happen, and women should be told about it.

The problem is....What about those of us who have to take the Pill for medical reasons? I remember Lotar posting that some priests have suggested using a condom while on the Pill.

As for me....Well, I'm going to take a chance and try to have another baby. Please pray for me, because when I'm off the Pill, that time of the month is nasty and emotionally trying.....

The exact same thing happened to me (although I went on the pill for different medical reasons). When I figured out what was going on my dh and I started using a barrier method as well as the pill.

[Orthocat]

While in the world we think as the world - it sounds like you were not aware, due to this.

Since coming to the church, your eyes have opened, and it appears you have regret.

ah, would that we all feel such regret for our actions.
True repentence is a most holy thing.

Talk to your priest. He can help you with any hurt you may have, and you can find forgiveness and comfort in our Lord.