[OPEN]What size is your congregation[OPEN]

[P_G]

Just trying to get a fix on the size of Messianic Congregations

(Mostly for my own edification)

Please MJ's only on this survey Trin and non Trin is fine

PG

[Henaynei]

right now there is just the two of us, hubby and me.

we have found an Israel friendly christian congregation whose pastor is Jewish that we might visit once a month or so.... they are in the 50-100 range, but then this town is only 1,000 souls to start with and there are many more than 10 congregations in this area, so nearly 100 members is a larger than average group for this area!

[AlanGurvey]

7-22 generally. It is just a little town with 30,000 (general pop) after all. And we are in the OC. :P

[plum]

21-50

[HadassahSukkot]

50-100... generally. There's been a lot of sickness, work keeping people tired and unable to come, or weather issues... and car issues.

On a good day it's between 100-200.

[Kalanit]

It's over 200 for sure. Have no idea the exact amount though.

[HayaLovesYeshua]

Over 250 people...
If we have guests it can be 300 or so!

[stone]

100 - 200 and growing ;)

[P_G]

The reason I ask is that Nehemiah Center has been in a bit of a growth spurt we have been at about 12 for some time and now growing towards the 20 mark. I think the exciting thing is that we are starting to get "unchurched" youth coming which really excites me a lot.

Our physical plant can handle about 60 - 70 people max before we would have to move.

It excites me to see the number of congregations that are over 100 members!

That is very cool indeed

PG

[HadassahSukkot]

Yes, it is so cool!

When we have guest speakers come (usually folks who don't come to Dixie, and if they do, they're like - in Texas or Florida, too far from us)... we have TONS of folks who come from Tennessee, Northern Alabama (huntsville area and farther north), People from the Anniston congregation come, folks from Montgomery or Tuscaloosa, and folks from Mississippi in the Tupelo group..
Then we pack it OUT.

We're meeting in a house that's been converted and busting at the seams... we're ok when most the folks aren't there, but the more visiting folks we get, it can be hard to move around.

We're looking into building on OR getting a new building. Since it's up in the air, my wedding won't be at our facilities :( I have to have it elsewhere.

That breaks my heart really, but since it's in June, I have to lock down the location by the end of next month, including my photographer, or I won't have one!

I'm thinking about 200 will come to the wedding and about 150 will stay for the reception since it will be a Havdalah and after wedding... kinda fiddler on the roof-y and LONG...

So we need reception space AND wedding-space.


Anyone want to come? ;)

[HayaLovesYeshua]

Dear PG,
We know that its not about the amount but the quality.
It's important that God's presence is there..and not many people who come to your congregation.
God will do His will and I believe He'll use your congregation to do mighty things in the name of Yeshua.Amen.

[HadassahSukkot]

Amein!!

[zhilan]

Those of you who have large congregations, where do you live? Are there particular areas of the country with large MJ populations?

[Henaynei]

Those of you who have large congregations, where do you live? Are there particular areas of the country with large MJ populations?yes, Florida, some areas of Georgia, some areas of the North East and the west coast.... to name a few....

in Florida were no less than 8 Messianic congregations and shuls with 50-100 or more members with in a 100 mile radius, there were 4 in less than 50 miles.

[HadassahSukkot]

I'm in the Greater Birmingham Metro area of Alabama.

Most of us are scattered. There's a group that comes from Jasper as much as they can afford (gas is still a bit pricey for them), and a family that comes a couple times a month from lower Tennessee, and a family or two that come who are closer to Anniston, though most of us are in Bham somewhere..

It's just started booming. I don't know if that's because the local christian college has people visit various denoms or a jewish congregation (regular synagogue or ours) as part of their religious coursework.. or if it's because we've just had a ton of new people moving out here..

[jgonz]

It's just us~ me, DH, and our 7 kids that still live at home. Nice enough size. ;) lol

[Wags]

We fall into the low side of the 21-50. We have packed upwards of 35 in our little meeting space, but that makes things really tight. If we grow much more we will have to find a new place to meet.

[Henaynei]

DH and I have come to the conclusion that 20 is about the max of what one meeting group needs to be. More and things start to get lost, like the Family connection and intimacy -- we feel that when a group reaches that number there would be a benefit to have the group split into two groups (the role of the group leader having to have been teaching and raising up the next leader) and let each grow, and split, and grow, raising up leaders ....

We have seen that small groups grow the strongest members and are the most consistant in nuturing members wth strong relationship and committment to G-d. We believe that meeting groups should be in homes or small common rooms that are part of a living neighborhood - and that it is there they are best situated to be salt and light.....

and groups can gather peroidically, one or more times a year, for "family reunions" and group fellowship :)

[Ivy]

I'll answer since my congregation is Messianic (Tikkun network).

21-50, and I tell myself very truthfully, it's not the quantity, it's the quality. :D We're a tough little bunch, I must say.

[Wags]

DH and I have come to the conclusion that 20 is about the max of what one meeting group needs to be. More and things start to get lost, like the Family connection and intimacy -- we feel that when a group reaches that number there would be a benefit to have the group split into two groups (the role of the group leader having to have been teaching and raising up the next leader) and let each grow, and split, and grow, raising up leaders ....

We have seen that small groups grow the strongest members and are the most consistant in nuturing members wth strong relationship and committment to G-d. We believe that meeting groups should be in homes or small common rooms that are part of a living neighborhood - and that it is there they are best situated to be salt and light.....

and groups can gather peroidically, one or more times a year, for "family reunions" and group fellowship :)
That would be a great size - if you were only talking about adults. I stongly believe that children need a peer group that holds similar beliefs or they start to feel very alone in the world. And to have the possiblity of similar ages you need a larger congregation. (Unless of course you have some big families.)

[shalominyeshua]

We have around 25-35, but some shabbats there may be more. There are a few large families that travel an hour+ so they are not there very regularly. If they all came on a regular basis we would be very crowded in our little schoolhouse! I like the smallness, especially coming from large churches! You really get to know everyone on a more personal basis. The bad thing about this too is that you get to know people on a more personal basis. I think there tends to be more lashan hara going on in small settings(or so it seems!)

[Henaynei]

That would be a great size - if you were only talking about adults. I strongly believe that children need a peer group that holds similar beliefs or they start to feel very alone in the world. And to have the possibility of similar ages you need a larger congregation. (Unless of course you have some big families.)The numbers are based on adults. :thumbsup:

But the concerns you voiced above have been successfully challenged over the last 50 years by the home-school movement. Children are not socialized effectively by their peers. Such socialization frequently leads to peer dependency. It is true youth can feel very alone if the adults in their community ignore them or shunt them to a separate room or something, refusing to guide and encourage them to earn a place among the adults. :) For millennia children were socialized and learned how to grow up into successful adults by being around and looking up to, thus emulating, worthy adults.:cool:

If the adults in a community make a practice of letting the childern of all ages know how much they care for them, how much they believe in them and how much they expect of them, especially modeling this for the children as they grow so that they older ones carry on the tradition with the younger ones, the children will grow as part of the community and have much less reason to seek an alternative community and will be better equipped to be leaders rather than followers - something peer socialization more often than not fails to accomplish.:amen:

in my experience :)

[Henaynei]

We have around 25-35, but some shabbats there may be more. There are a few large families that travel an hour+ so they are not there very regularly. If they all came on a regular basis we would be very crowded in our little schoolhouse! I like the smallness, especially coming from large churches! You really get to know everyone on a more personal basis. The bad thing about this too is that you get to know people on a more personal basis. I think there tends to be more lashan hara going on in small settings(or so it seems!)maybe it is just harder to hide or ignore in a small community - which can be a good thing :)

[Ivy]

I dunno, there doesn't seem to be a lot of it in ours.......not to sound hoity toity or anything ......but we're so small we can't afford too much gossip & offense.

[P_G]

/me loves the kiddishes

Here is from our 2nd anniversary last week

http://www.nehemiah-center.org/cake.jpg
cake by Zayit

[Ivy]

Is that Zayit's arm holding the cake knife?????? You see, I want to know what Zayit looks like, since I think I may have seen her once without knowing it ^_^

[Wags]

If you are a young teenager and have never met or had contact with any other messianic teens - and only associate with messianic adults you might start to feel that this is something that is only for adults. Even if you are actively included in the adults activites. (this is based on conversations with teens currently in that position)

A well homeschooled child does not grow up without contact with peers - those who are raised in isolation tend to suffer socially later in life. Just like adults seek and need friendships, so to do children.

[P_G]

hahahah

Do you recognize the hand or the knife?

She was here as a guest and I am not sure if that is her hand or not really Probably - Gahh you don't think it was an assiniation attempt do you?

Zayit is a member of a congregation about 40 miles from here and we were so honored and blessed to have her here to celebrate.

You would know her if you saw her she is very lovely and modest. As well as talented and some kind wonderful cooker of things to eat!

Anyways the survey is showing I think that we at the Center are probably right about where we should be at 2 years growth wise. I would hate to have a Mega Shul ;)

PG

[Ivy]

hahahah

Do you recognize the hand or the knife?

She was here as a guest and I am not sure if that is her hand or not really Probably - Gahh you don't think it was an assiniation attempt do you?




^_^ ^_^
No, the cake. It was my birthday not too long ago and I think that is my cake. :cool:

[Henaynei]

If you are a young teenager and have never met or had contact with any other messianic teens - and only associate with messianic adults you might start to feel that this is something that is only for adults. Even if you are actively included in the adults activites. (this is based on conversations with teens currently in that position)

A well homeschooled child does not grow up without contact with peers - those who are raised in isolation tend to suffer socially later in life. Just like adults seek and need friendships, so to do children. :) if you noticed my original post on the issue I stated that individual groups would gather for "family reunions" a few times a year (perhaps for certain holy days and for picnics or fieldtrips together - like to a holocaust museum) - just as home-school families gather in similar groups periodically - you are correct that neither should operate in perpetual isolation :)

[P_G]

^_^ ^_^
No, the cake. It was my birthday not too long ago and I think that is my cake. :cool:
No no no Silly Zayit does not look like a cake

Me I look like a cake

OK one other picture of yes yours truely the Messianic Cowboy

http://www.nehemiah-center.org/cowboy.jpg

I am really enjoying hearing about other peoples congregations can we morph the thread a bit and maybe you all can tell us a bit about your congregation and the people there? Maybe this helps us all to be more like community

PG

[P_G]

Nehemiah Center is like a fusion ministry where we try to bring the message of Torah to people who are still part of the church. Some of the members are fully Torah observant others are brand new to it but working on a new understanding.

PG

[Henaynei]

as I said, right now it is just us 2, trying to forge out Messianic lifestyle and servant-hood in a decidedly non-Messianic and non-Jewish environment.....

[Bananna]

a little 30 I think... but then my family make up the 11 of that. LOL

They would probably be mostly Nicene creed, but not use the trinity term... which is fine with the few unorthodox of us and we tend to be more into scripture study and aplication on a personal basis rather than worrying about each others "doctrine"

I just think it is such a cool place to study.
bananna

[HadassahSukkot]

If you are a young teenager and have never met or had contact with any other messianic teens - and only associate with messianic adults you might start to feel that this is something that is only for adults. Even if you are actively included in the adults activites. (this is based on conversations with teens currently in that position)

A well homeschooled child does not grow up without contact with peers - those who are raised in isolation tend to suffer socially later in life. Just like adults seek and need friendships, so to do children.
I know exactly of what you speak...

There is Me, and D., then M., and A., P. and S... D is 19, M is 15, A is 16, P is around my age, and S. is a year or so older than me (I'll be 25 next week).

While the bulk of us are "adults" - we aren't "adults" because we haven't been in it, and though we're members and have a say in what goes on (well, we can vote on it), we don't really have a say... and it's about a 30 year gap in age with most of the adults there, except for a few which are 10 year gap or 20 year gap.

Most of the folks are the age of our parents or nearing the age of our grandparents.. and we kind of get treated like "the kids" -- "too zealous" and "too many questions"... but I think ours are the right ones.

We ask WHY the traditions are done so, and investigate them and bring back our findings (such as why women aren't traditionally wearing tzitziot or talliot or tefillin or called up to Torah- and we find because the Rabbis think it is "ok if they want to take it on, but they are so pious and have better things to do.. men are better disciplined with these things" -- and Michal the daughter of Saul, the daughters of David and many other righteous women did these things.

D. and I found out that it's not even encouraged to teach a woman Torah nor Talmud, because of that ruling... but that if a woman learns; it is a great asset and she can greatly help her husband in doing so.

So what gives? :P

Anyway.. it is very isolated because you feel like you're on one page and everyone else over five ahead or five behind, and "is there anyone else my age like me??" -- not to mention the "Shabbas school" that is done off and on dragging the little ones away from the sermon, and the "cry room" for the same purpose for the babies and toddlers.

For me, the kids need to be in there. They need to hear just as much as we; and not watered down.
After being old enough to stay in service (that is, when I was disciplined enough to take a bottle to feed in service), we were in service.

Even as a small child, we were in service- mom gave us a pen and paper or a crayon and paper and told us to take notes and tell her after what the pastor talked about (and every time, without fail we did)...

I hated sunday school when I was little, on the one hand because we weren't with the adults. I got way more out of the adult classes with my grandparents than I ever did in the children's classes. (oh, but "you need to be socialized!")

The last time I went to my grandparents church (a few years ago) I stayed in the class my grandfather was teaching... and no one took me from it. No one understood why I wanted to be "with the old people".. Why? because, they were actually teaching the Scriptures, no holds barred - and no "traditional doctrine" strung through it.

I love Midrash, but I get so frustrated because I really feel alone in how I feel about Torah and it's centrality and the simple "just do it" addage..

But we have to "rationalize" and "is that a rabbi's point of view or our own?" and "why does it have to be done that way?"... "who said...?".."where is that in scripture?" -- all good things, when said in the right spirit and tone... but when it is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/Emoticons/hand-signs/yapyap.gif -- please let me walk out calmly without anyone realizing how upset I just got... so I can collect myself to say in a nice way "We're all adults here, let's talk about this calmly and rationally".. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/Emoticons/upset-gross-faint/001.gif


Hehe..

I love everyone there to death, and I am dreading my move due to the loss of a congregation... I really felt it at Simchat Torah and couldn't stop crying... but I know it's time to move on, and that makes it all the more difficult. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/Emoticons/sad/cry.gif

[Ivy]

Ours is around 40 super-faithful people; I think 11 or 12 actually born Jewish.....? It was started in 1990 & was actually quite a bit larger, but we suffered a huge loss by moving from downtown on Friday to out in the country all day Saturday (real popular decision ;-) After that, also, the original founders made aliyah & started a congregation in Haifa. We've had a tough time the past several years, but the tough get going ;-)

We use both Messianic & charismatic songs and davidic dance; we're gradually incorporating more & more of the traditional liturgy, which I love. First of all, it's so poetic & majestic, and also, it gives a good stable frame for the rest of the worship.

Our kids are growing up! Most of them are in junior high or high school age (*sob) but it's so good to see them taking hold of the things of God; a youth worship team is being developed.

Another good thing is the food! We have an oneg every Sat. :yum:

[debi b]

PG you may enjoy this story :)

We have a family that has a teenage autistic daughter. She is pretty high functioning, but not much verbal skills. Anyway, we have been studying with them for about a year. Recently this daughter told her para at school that she was spiritual and she loves G-d, and G-d loves her, and she loves the time when we study together! She is absorbing a great deal more than we thought. Last week she said she wants to be able to communicate more with people and this is really important to her. So, we made her a cardboard hand that says, "I want to talk" and she can hold it up when she wants to participate. Then she writes on a piece of paper for us :D Her mom said in the past year she has had made leaps and bounds for progress. Pretty cool!

[Henaynei]

PG you may enjoy this story :)

We have a family that has a teenage autistic daughter. She is pretty high functioning, but not much verbal skills. Anyway, we have been studying with them for about a year. Recently this daughter told her para at school that she was spiritual and she loves G-d, and G-d loves her, and she loves the time when we study together! She is absorbing a great deal more than we thought. Last week she said she wants to be able to communicate more with people and this is really important to her. So, we made her a cardboard hand that says, "I want to talk" and she can hold it up when she wants to participate. Then she writes on a piece of paper for us :D Her mom said in the past year she has had made leaps and bounds for progress. Pretty cool! totally awesome!!:clap:

[P_G]

You know my son has Auspbergers and he has been doing so much better since he got out from under the profesionals and just trusted in the House of the L-rd

Heeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Wait a second here! You don't think that this whole trusting in G-d thing might just work do you? You don't think that he can still reach those who society says can't be reached.

Wow maybe we should like tell somebody about this!

(removing toungue from cheek)

PG

[Bananna]

cool
I believe only G-d heals anyway