How do Messianics feel regarding dating and Marriage outside the faith?[open]

[Torah]

A friend of mine would like to know how messianics would
feel about their children dating and marrying "out", ie to "regular" Christians instead of messianics?

[Torah]

As for me personally. As my old friend Tevye said: “A fish and a bird can fall in love, But where would they live”?
In other words. One says were having pork for dinner tonight, the other says no were not.
One says were going shopping Saturday, the other says no were not.
One says were going to church Sunday, the other says no were not.
One says were putting up a Christmas tree, The other says no were not.
One says were hiding eggs this Sunday, the other says no were not.
One says were carving a pumpkin, the other says no were not.
One says were having a Sader, the other says no were not.
One says were fasting all day, the other says no were not.
One says were build & living in a shack, the other says no were not.
One says I’m taking the kids......

These are issues that will cause division in a marriage. In a way it’s like trying to mix the Church & messianic Judaism. Or Judaism & messianic Judaism.
That’s my option.

[HadassahSukkot]

I feel about the same actually.

I don't have any kids. I want them, but I don't know if I can have any.

I was brought up that you marry someone you have things in common with, and the first thing being- Relationship with G-d. As in, same core beleifs.

If there are not same core beliefs, you can't exactly be "echad" in all things. When a house is divided like that, it can easily fall.

I have family who married people with slightly different core beliefs, and there are *always fights* and it's discouraging and divisive. It confuses the children caught in the cross-fire.

I don't care who my children marry as far as how they look or dress (so long as the dress is modest.. LOL :D) or the culture they come from, so long as their faith and common goal are the same.

Maybe they came down a slightly different road, but if the core is the same, they will have my blessing.

[shalominyeshua]

I have three girls and they will marry men who love G-d with all their hearts, souls, and strength. These men must follow after His word. I am already praying that
G-d is preparing these men for my girls. I am even watching other boys within our congregation who I can arrange their furture with. :D No, I am only kidding. I am trusting G-d that he will bring a Torah observant man who truly loves G-d into each of these precious girls' lives.:prayer:

[Kalanit]

I pray that my children will marry Messianic Jews... That they will (in G-d''s time) live in Israel and raise families of their own. I would be DEEPLY saddened if they assimilated into the Christian church.

[ChavaK]

I pray that my children will marry Messianic Jews... That they will (in G-d''s time) live in Israel and raise families of their own. I would be DEEPLY saddened if they assimilated into the Christian church.

Hi Kalanit, just a quick question to clarify things in my humble mind :) ...are you Jewish? If not, why would
it be important for your chidren to marry Messianic
Jews, vs Messianic gentiles?
Now that I think about, if you are Jewish or not,
why would it matter anyway if the beliefs are the same?

todah!

[ChavaK]

I have family who married people with slightly different core beliefs, and there are *always fights* and it's discouraging and divisive. It confuses the children caught in the cross-fire.


Very true- a big chasm between the beliefs of two
people is very difficult to overcome and can most
definitely add a great deal of stress into a marriage.
And this is usualy greatly intensified once children
are in the picture.....

[Kalanit]

My husband is Jewish, and there are not many left in his family line. I would like to see his name (family name) and ethnicity strengthened and multiplied. There are plenty of people in the world like me :) But not so many like him! I believe in strengthening the physical nation of Israel, of passing on a Jewish heritage and faith... My husband's family is almost all assimilated now... We married and chose not to follow that path. So, G-d willing, we will continue to steer the ship back home... instead of further away from the heritage and G-d of his fathers.

[ChavaK]

My husband is Jewish, and there are not many left in his family line. I would like to see his name (family name) and ethnicity strengthened and multiplied. There are plenty of people in the world like me :) But not so many like him! I believe in strengthening the physical nation of Israel, of passing on a Jewish heritage and faith... My husband's family is almost all assimilated now... We married and chose not to follow that path. So, G-d willing, we will continue to steer the ship back home... instead of further away from the heritage and G-d of his fathers.

Got it! Thanks for the explanation...

[zhilan]

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm just curious, what would your feelings be about your children marrying a non-Messianic Jewish person who observed the torah? Would you prefer that to marrying a mainstream, non-torah observant Christian?

[Torah]

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm just curious, what would your feelings be about your children marrying a non-Messianic Jewish person who observed the torah? Would you prefer that to marrying a mainstream, non-torah observant Christian?
Personally. I would prefer “mainstream, non-torah observant Christian?”. Personally.

[Kalanit]

That's hard. The one would reject who we believe to be the Messiah of Israel and HaShem in physical form. The other would reject our heritage, our faith perspective, and culture.

I'd pray they are able to find someone within the Messianic community.

[HadassahSukkot]

That's hard. The one would reject who we believe to be the Messiah of Israel and HaShem in physical form. The other would reject our heritage, our faith perspective, and culture.

I'd pray they are able to find someone within the Messianic community.
I wouldn't want either.

Either you love and obey the Master, or you don't.

Yes, there's always some growing and understanding to be acheived - for our whole lifetime!! We're ever learning, ever adjusting our lives to His.

But... if there is not an "eye-to-eye" agreement on the basics of faith - one or the other member of the marriage covenant will be dragged through the mud.

Marriage isn't about that. It's about upholding each other's needs, and meeting them as best as you can - ESPECIALLY your Spiritual needs.

Remember Mark Twain?
His wife and daughters were believers, and he was a devout atheist. His attitude and verbal & emotional abuse is what killed his wife.
His daughters died of various illnesses and he died a very lonely and embittered man.

I have an two people I love dearly, but they do not at all see eye-to-eye on their faith. They're both believers, but do not go to any congregation regularly - and the woman wants to, but not alone.

Who suffers in the relationship? Ultimately both..


I once dated a guy who was a "Believer" and we didn't at all see eye to eye on the faith issue.. and the relationship was downhill from the start.
He wanted things I couldn't provide, and wasn't going to; and he wanted me to basically shirk my faith completely- which I did for a short time.. I was very rebellious about it too.

I regret every millisecond of that relationship.

Did I learn something? Yeah, heaps. Don't do it.

Given the choice of two evils, don't choose either. Walk away.

[Kalanit]

Given the choice of two evils, don't choose either. Walk away.

AMEIN!!!!

[shalominyeshua]

I wouldn't want either.

Either you love and obey the Master, or you don't.



I agree 100%. If I had to choose between the 2, my girls would not marry either! But, I am trusting G-d to bring the right man along. It is in His timing, not my daughters! Although, they have a very long time until that day will come!!! :)

[ChavaK]

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm just curious, what would your feelings be about your children marrying a non-Messianic Jewish person who observed the torah? Would you prefer that to marrying a mainstream, non-torah observant Christian?

It's probably a moot point anyway...an observant Jew
would not marry a non-Jew, nor marry a messianic
who was halachaly Jewish.
If it did happen for some reason, chances are the
marriage would not last anyway...especially if
they decided to have children..

[jgonz]

Since my oldest is practically engaged right now, I'll answer this question...

My oldest DD (24) is about to be engaged to a born-again Bible-believing Christian (Baptist, to be exact). She's talked to him about Messianic things, and he thinks it's "cool".

I, personally, think, that at this point in time, that him thinking it's "cool" is wonderful. We kept the Feasts for years, but didn't really become Torah Observant until about 4 yrs ago, so it was really new to our DD... and to be honest, she hasn't quite stepped in yet all the way herself. (Plus, she has an apartment with a born-again Christian girl she's known since high school age, so she's missed quite a bit in our growth in the last 2 years since she moved out.)

I would LOVE for all my children to marry Messianic Believers, but at this point I believe the most important thing is a close personal relationship with Yeshua/Jesus. The other things will follow as they follow Him...

[Henaynei]

mine is a mixed marriage - my husband was born and raised an Orthodox Jewish man, I, a gentile.

He was trying to be James Dean in school near Boston while I choregraphing and costuming Exodus for my modern dance class in Florida......

My husband drifted away from Judaism in his early adult years. I drifted toward the G-d of Israel and His instructions.

By the time we met and married he was a Jewish Christain who was very knowledgable and skilled in the history and teachings of the church, and I was a Gentile Christian who begun keeping Passover and had abandonded Christmas, Easter and Halloween many many years before.

After we married he told me that he had never had any intention of marrying a Jewish girl (the attitude of quite a few Jewish men as understand it) but the G-d snuck one in on him - he said I was more Jewish than he was ... shortly after marrying (under a chupa) we unintentionlly found ourselves inestigating something called Messianic Judaism - we had no idea what it was.....

[Wags]

I would prefer my children marry messianic believers - doesn't really matter a great deal to me if their future spouses are Jews or Gentiles as long as they love and obey the Most High.

I started praying for their spouse before they were even born and I trust that Adonai will send them the right person for them.

[HadassahSukkot]

Wags, that is what my parents did with me, and what i intend to do with and for my children.

How I met Andreas is a miracle in and of itself, and due to my dad speaking prophetically that I would marry him (and he said it quite "flippantly" too!) - and I didn't even know who Andreas was at the time!!

But G-d had guided us together, and even when I was little, I felt led to pray for the person I would marry that G-d would keep him safe and lead him in His ways, not those of his choosing.

Andreas could tell you a lot more about it- - but suffice to say, G-d didn't let Andreas have his way with *anything* he wanted to do that was wrong, and that the times I was praying for him, he needed it most.

I'm just glad that we're finally getting a chance to be together even if it may be for a breif time. 7 years by yourselves (with only your own family and very short visits in a year's time) in a courtship, away from each other is very difficult; though I must say G-d has used it to strengthen not only our love, but our consideration and understanding for each other.

[Ivy]

Since my children and I are Gentiles, it would be fine with me if they married into the church (though a little lonesome for me cuz I'm staying right where I am!).

My main concern & prayer is that their spouses will love God with all their hearts and be good spouses--and give me cute grandchildren of course. ;)

However, if they were to marry a Messianic Jew, my hope would be that they remain in a Messianic congregation & raise them as such. I would feel unhappy with it if they took their MJ spouses away to church; I don't think that's the right thing to do.

[Yusuphhai]

Ha. It is a great problem to me. I can not be a member of general Christianity just for the need of marriage. Messianic Judaism or Abrahamic Faith is still a fresh view point in China. So I have to preach occasionally although I don’t like much preaching of Christianity. But indeed I ever met some Chinese Christians who really accept Holy Spirit (sorry I forget how to say in Hebrew) and are Jewish in spirit. And in my life I can live in Jewish culture, Chinese culture, Occident culture and West Asian culture at same time, although always doing correct things according to Bible is not easy.

Shalom, Yusuph

[LadyGarnetRose]

I was married before coming back to God.

I think, in marriage respect is needed. Respecting your spouse in what their beliefs and needs are.

I'm honestly unsure of what my husband believes exactly, and it's something we don't discuss very often.

He lets me cover my head without question, and he loves some of my kippahs.

If you respect your spouse, it can work. I'm not saying always, but it can.

After the respect of God, you have to respect your spouse. If your spouse doesn't believe in God the same way, the respect of the spouse shouldn't go away.

IF, and it's a big if, we have children, they'll be raised Messianic, that is something we have discussed and he respects my reasons behind it. If they find love, I will be joyful for them.

I think a great amount of a marriage succeeding or failing falls on the parents. If you cannot learn to love your child-in-law and respect the choice your child made in a spouse. The marriage is doomed to fail.

Think of all those failed marriages where one spouse is damning their mother-in-law.

Shalom

[Athaliamum]

I plan for my daughter to marry who G-d picks for her irrespective of what I might think is right at the time. Personally I think that it is foolish to limit the connection of spirits and lines to a title - Messianic Judaism. G-d knows our children's hearts and that of their intended partners he'll put them all in the right place. But hey my daughters only 22months - Yeshua could have come back by then.

[ContraMundum]

My husband is Jewish, and there are not many left in his family line. I would like to see his name (family name) and ethnicity strengthened and multiplied. There are plenty of people in the world like me :) But not so many like him! I believe in strengthening the physical nation of Israel, of passing on a Jewish heritage and faith... My husband's family is almost all assimilated now... We married and chose not to follow that path. So, G-d willing, we will continue to steer the ship back home... instead of further away from the heritage and G-d of his fathers.
Tough question for you, but try to understand what I'm asking before you gett annoyed with me. :)

According to formative (orthodox) Judaism, your husband has assimilated too. How does he feel about those among the Jews who regard him as not capable of passing on his heritage? Does he simply disregard the orthodox Jews who say his children will not be Jews or does it somehow bother him?

[ChavaK]

Tough question for you, but try to understand what I'm asking before you gett annoyed with me. :)

According to formative (orthodox) Judaism, your husband has assimilated too. How does he feel about those among the Jews who regard him as not capable of passing on his heritage? Does he simply disregard the orthodox Jews who say his children will not be Jews or does it somehow bother him?

Thanks for asking this, I was wondering the same thing.
However, none of the "mainstream" branches will
accept the children as Jewish since they are not
being raised as Jews, to the exclusion of all other
religous beliefs.....(from a Jewish POV, of course :) )

[ContraMundum]

My kids will marry whoever they want. I think my oldest daughter will probably marry an Orthodox Jew. I told her that is ok by me, but I'd prefer that if she did that I 'd hope he's Hasidic, because at least they have a lively faith. She can't stand Christians, that is, she did like them until she attended a Pentecostal mega-church (against my wishes) and decided that pentes were "all stark raving mad". She's lost all respect for Christians since then and I'd hate to tell you what she thinks of Messianics- you'd never speak to me again. Anyway, her interest in Jewish activities has come about through my parents, of course. C'est la vie.

My boys will no doubt marry "chicks who like to go to the football" as one of them put it. They're young, and in time I'm sure they'll be a little more picky.

[ContraMundum]

Thanks for asking this, I was wondering the same thing.
However, none of the "mainstream" branches will
accept the children as Jewish since they are not
being raised as Jews, to the exclusion of all other
religous beliefs.....(from a Jewish POV, of course :) )

True, but they could always be T'shuva in a Reform congregation, if I'm not mistaken.

[ChavaK]

True, but they could always be T'shuva in a Reform congregation, if I'm not mistaken.

I am certainly no expert in Reform responsa, but I
believe that the Reform would require conversion..
that the child must be raised as Jewish, and to the
exclusion of all other religous beliefs...otherwise
they are not Jewish...

[ContraMundum]

I am certainly no expert in Reform responsa, but I
believe that the Reform would require conversion..
that the child must be raised as Jewish, and to the
exclusion of all other religous beliefs...otherwise
they are not Jewish...
I guess that's what I was saying. The kids, if they desired to become Jewish, would have some entrance into Judaism via a Reform congregation because their father would be considered Jewish- and the Reform accept a person's Jewish heritage to be passed from either father or mother, so while a formal "conversion" may not be necessary, they might have to go through a t'shuva process- eg. some lengthy study before they got their first aliyah to the Torah.

[ChavaK]

I guess that's what I was saying. The kids, if they desired to become Jewish, would have some entrance into Judaism via a Reform congregation because their father would be considered Jewish- and the Reform accept a person's Jewish heritage to be passed from either father or mother, so while a formal "conversion" may not be necessary, they might have to go through a t'shuva process- eg. some lengthy study before they got their first aliyah to the Torah.

Sorry to hijack the thread....:)
From my knowledge of Reform, they would not
accept the children as Jewish even if the
father is Jewish because they would not be
raised as Jews, to the exclusion of all other
beliefs. They would be considered gentile by
the Reform, and would have to undergo full
coversion like any other gentile. The children
of gentile mothers/Jewish father's are only
considered as born Jews if they meet the
above two criterion (actively raised as Jews,
no other religous beliefs..). It does get
confusing....:)

[ContraMundum]

Sorry to hijack the thread....:)
From my knowledge of Reform, they would not
accept the children as Jewish even if the
father is Jewish because they would not be
raised as Jews, to the exclusion of all other
beliefs. They would be considered gentile by
the Reform, and would have to undergo full
coversion like any other gentile. The children
of gentile mothers/Jewish father's are only
considered as born Jews if they meet the
above two criterion (actively raised as Jews,
no other religous beliefs..). It does get
confusing....:)
Actually, on reflection, I think you are quite correct. We'd better not hijack this any further! LOL :)

[Kalanit]

Hum... well, since (in theory) my kids would marry other Messianic Jews (Jewish men or women who have come to faith in Yeshua) then, it really doesn't matter what the orthodox think. We are staying with in our own 'group.'

An Athiest Jew is still a Jew, but perhaps not one in spirit. If the Orthodox say my kids aren't "Jew enough" well, that's for them to get in knots about. I'm not concerned. We are raising our kids as Jews- and, well, that's it. The orthodox will call a Sabra Israeli Messianic Jew a heretic and a "non-Jew"... And what does that mean to me? Not a whole heck of a lot. I don't hold my breath waiting to hear what the orthodox have to say about us... haha, if MJ's did, we'd all get ulcers! I don't really care what the Pope says either. Or any religious/ political group who makes laws about who gets into heaven, etc.

I read the Book. I follow the G-d of Israel. I alone am accountable to G-d for how I raise my kids. Again, we would be marrying into our own group. To the Orthodox, I say- leave us alone and let us live in peace.

[ChavaK]

Actually, on reflection, I think you are quite correct. We'd better not hijack this any further! LOL :)

Agreed...however I think it is important that these
issues be raised so that as children grown older
they are aware of the problems they may encounter...