Messianic Judaism

[Snowy]

What exactly is the difference between this and being a Christian or Jew?

[Tpolg]

A Messianic is a Christian who believes that the Torah is God’s instructions for us, in how to be pleasing to Him. We keep, not for salvation, but out of gratitude to the Creator for the salvation He has freely given us through the Messiah Yeshua. (And because it is truly a pleasure)
A “Jew” is simply a biological decedent of Isaac’s second son. They may be “Christian”, Messianic, just follow the Torah, follow the Torah and the Talmud, or be completely secular.

[Snowy]

Can a Christian convert to Messianic Judaism?

[HayaLovesYeshua]

Messianic Jewish is a person that was born into a Jewish family.
You can't be Messianic Jewish if you didn't accept Yeshua [Jesus] into your heart even though your family did...
The difference is that I was born to a Jewish family and you were not.

[plum]

Can a Christian convert to Messianic Judaism?

No conversion necessary for people who are already Christians. This isn't a denomination, but a lifestyle movement.

Messianic Jews = ethnically Jewish people who accept Yeshua as Messiah.
Messianic Gentiles = non-Jews who accept Yeshua as Messiah and live a Hebraic/ Torah-centered lifestyle.

[plum]

I suggest you read this thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t3958909-messianic-judaism-forum-faqs-subjects-of-interest.html

[Snowy]

If I wanted to consider myself Messianic but am not a Jew by birth what would I be called?

[Tpolg]

Messianic Gentile

[Snowy]

Is it possible that part of what I feel is missing is because I have never know the whole truth?

[visionary]

God is the whole anything missing in your life. Messianic follow their hearts to a closer walk with Yeshua and end up with a faith that shows it pecularity.... Having faith in Yeshua and keeping the commandments of God.

[Athaliamum]

Is it possible that part of what I feel is missing is because I have never know the whole truth?

Yes. Iron sharpens Iron, and if the iron has become corrupted or is weak it doesn't work so well. Basically what I'm saying is there is a lot of skewed views about scripture and nature of G-d out there, and a lot of it continues to be taught. One of the worst is replacement theology and that Torah doesn't matter any more.

There are so many beautiful things lost about scripture when one does not understand the context in which it was written. Often within the NT, Yahshua (Jesus) was talking to Jews who lived as Jews and had a Jewish understanding. While the Good News is still bright without an understanding of culture some things are lost, some emphasis missed without that understanding.

An example:
Luke 8:43-48
The story of the bleeding women who touched Yahshua hem or tzitzit and was healed.

Is there significance in where she touched him? Yes!
In ancient times, tassels were part of the hem of a garment, and the hem symbolized the wearer's authority. When David spared Saul's life in the cave at En Gedi, he cut off the comer of Saul's robe, symbolically demonstrating that the king's authority would be cut off.

Numbers 15: 37- 40 details what this tzitzit was for. It was to be white with one blue strand. Blue was also used in settings where God's kingship was proclaimed. Blue was to cover the ark (and other tabernacle objects) whenever they were moved, and blue was also used with the curtains of the tabernacle where God dwelt "enthroned" between the cherubim (1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chronicles 13:6; Psalm 80: 1; 99: 1; Isaiah 37:16). The high priest's garments had a blue thread, again a reminder of the color symbolism.


So basically one can understand this verse from understanding the cultral context to be that she didn't just touch his clothes but his hem tzitzit in a display of her belief in his authority and kingship.

************
By the way scripture tells us that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the kingdom of G-d - we are all simply messianic believers. I'll point this out because sometimes the word "gentile" can sound like a dirty word.

[Snowy]

************
By the way scripture tells us that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the kingdom of G-d - we are all simply messianic believers. I'll point this out because sometimes the word "gentile" can sound like a dirty word.


show me where this is please

[plum]

Well there's Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11

both are here:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=Gal+3%3A28%3B+Col+3%3A11&section=0&version=cjb&new=1&oq=jew+greek

[Sephania]

Ops, this thread is getting off topic, I will separate out the posts speaking about Solo scriptura to another thread and lets concentrate on Snowys request Ok?

:)

[Sephania]

Here is the New thread titled "What do Messianics think about Solo Scriptura?' (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=4189311)

you all can continue that conversation over there, meanwhile back to the OP's question. :)

[Snowy]

Well there's Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11

both are here:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=Gal+3%3A28%3B+Col+3%3A11&section=0&version=cjb&new=1&oq=jew+greek


thank you! :hug:

[Snowy]

I picked up a copy of the Talmud at the library the other day and have read alittle of it. Some of it is hard to understand but I'm trying.

[Snowy]

What exactly is Kabbalah?

[Tpolg]

It is Jewish mysticism. Don’t mess with it unless there is someone reputable to guide you.

[Shimshon]

What exactly is the difference between this and being a Christian or Jew?

In reference to mankind, Torah. How one relates to Torah. How one has fellowship with God. Each see themselves as be reconsiled to God in a different manner. Yet there is only one truth.

In reference to God, nothing, as was pointed out by (gal,col) another poster.

The difference between Christianity, Judaism, and Messianic Judaism is how one views Torah.

Can a Christian convert to Messianic Judaism?

There is no formal conversion as there is no formal leadership. Each congregation is a city to themselves. None I have seen actually agree on the whole "Messianic Jew/Messianic Gentile" thing. It is bitterly dividing MJAA even at present. And why there are now many more splinter groups forming. Like UMJC....and so forth. And let's not even mention the 2 house debate.

The whole 'modern' movment started because Jews, who follow Judaism (rabbinical) came to faith in Yeshua and desired to be in fellowship together. Christianity did not accept it because it endorsed the acceptance of Torah for life today. Christianity has been fighting this from it's conception.

In the late 60's early 70's Jews who would come to faith in Messiah would have no place to worship and fellowship except the Church. They were known as "Hebrew Christians". The church accepted this because they still 'forsake the Torah' and confessed Jesus as the ONLY way to God.

Messianic Judaism does not forsake Torah. It embrases it as a Jew does. It allows the Jews who followed orthodox Judaism to remain in their customs and ways, but incorporate Yeshua into them. Which is quite easy because Yeshua is throughout Torah, He is the meaning and goal of.

It's really a matter of reaching someone 'where they are'. Not forcing them to 'convert' or change one set of 'doctrine' for the opposing doctrine. A Jew could remain focused on Torah life and include Yeshua.

Though today the movement has seen huge amounts of Christians doing just this. They cast the 'doctrines' of Christianity for the doctrines of Judaism, but keep Yeshua as Messiah. This is what is causing the stir and division in the movement. Gentiles teaching that gentiles should become like Jews in custom. Jews remain Jewish, but gentiles need to 'convert' to Judaism.

This is where I differ from most Messianics. I believe where Paul said in Romans 2:14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don't have Torah, for themselves are Torah!

And many many more verses from all the apostles proclaim this very thing. How God reconciled the gentiles to himself through Messiah, OUTSIDE of Yisrael. But that is for another day, and another thread.

Is it possible that part of what I feel is missing is because I have never know the whole truth?

Most assuredly.

I picked up a copy of the Talmud at the library the other day and have read alittle of it. Some of it is hard to understand but I'm trying.

Is this your first time studying orthodox/rabbinical Judaism?

What exactly is Kabbalah?

Jewish mysticism. It is akin to the gnostic ways of Christianity. Kabbalah means what has been given, or tradition, gnosis means knowledge, sometimes hidden traditions.

Kabbalah/traddition is not bad, as usual it's what others have done with it that are.

Wisdom is not bad, Shlomo was blessed with it. But what he did with it lead to sin.