If women were in charge

[gtsecc]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap:

[Groce]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap:

The way things are going it might actually happen.

[SumTinWong]

Here we go again lumping one nut job in with the rest . . . Shall we post all the male priest asinine statements following this one? Sheesh this could take up my whole day . . .

[JasonV]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap:

??

[She]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap:

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.

[RadixLecti]

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.

exactly...

[karen freeinchristman]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap: Glen, what exactly is your agenda here?


Shall we post all the male priest asinine statements following this one? Sheesh this could take up my whole day . . .
Exactly!

[karen freeinchristman]

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.
She, please try not to be swayed by what you read here on this board. Don't make your decisions based upon the limited perceptions of people here. Talk to real people in the Anglican community that you are associated with.

[Aymn27]

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.
My friend,
Let me tell you from first hand experience that Anglicanism is not the only denomination where such statements are made and such thinking/theology is forwarded. Just because an institution like Rome puts up an orthodox front, there are MANY priests and laity who expound the same kind of stuff. I know, I worked around and with some of them. Besides, what kind of institution would move around priests who molest children and cover it up.

[Simon_Templar]

Actually there are a couple of organizations of clergy and lay people from different religions (including a few christian denominations) who have banded together to promote abortion as a religious ceremony, and have even gone so far as to author liturgical services for abortions etc.

Some have actually defined it as an act of worship, just as the quote above.

So it has already happened, it just hasn't been officially accepted/recognized by a denomination (that I'm aware of).

And, although abortion is defined by these peolpe as "a woman's issue" this isn't just a women's issue because men are involved with this kind of stuff too.

I never thought I'd see a revival of molech worship in my life time, in a "civilized" society no less.

[ChessCastle]

My friend,
Let me tell you from first hand experience that Anglicanism is not the only denomination where such statements are made and such thinking/theology is forwarded. Just because an institution like Rome puts up an orthodox front, there are MANY priests and laity who expound the same kind of stuff. I know, I worked around and with some of them. Besides, what kind of institution would move around priests who molest children and cover it up.


:scratch:
Glen posted a quote from an Episcopalian priest, and somehow it relates to child molestation in the RCC...how?

It would really be nice to go a while without someone bashing another Church, especially when it has nothing to do with the thread topic.

[SumTinWong]

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.
The problem lies with fear I think (why she has not been tossed out). In our parish she would be out on her backside before she finished the statement, and would remain there until she repented of the statement. Why this sort of heresy is allowed I cannot say but she does not speak for me or anyone I know in my own church.

So anyway just food for thought in case you were still considering the Anglican church is that stuff like this comes up on occasion. Most times I hear good sound theology coming from the ranks and other times i hear nut jobs like this person, and I just shake my head and be thankful that they are not around me. We have all kinds so far, zealots who wish they could be Orthodox or the RC, and whack jobs who think anything goes. I am somewhere int he middle, as i think most people are in my church.

[She]

She, please try not to be swayed by what you read here on this board. Don't make your decisions based upon the limited perceptions of people here. Talk to real people in the Anglican community that you are associated with.

Yes, I am very grateful that I live in England where we have the good old, reliable C of E.

My friend,
Let me tell you from first hand experience that Anglicanism is not the only denomination where such statements are made and such thinking/theology is forwarded. Just because an institution like Rome puts up an orthodox front, there are MANY priests and laity who expound the same kind of stuff. I know, I worked around and with some of them. Besides, what kind of institution would move around priests who molest children and cover it up.

Sorry, I did not mean to insult the Anglican Church.

:scratch:
Glen posted a quote from an Episcopalian priest, and somehow it relates to child molestation in the RCC...how?


I think he was referring to my post. I am a former Roman Catholic and am about to join the Anglican Church.

So anyway just food for thought in case you were still considering the Anglican church is that stuff like this comes up on occasion. Most times I hear good sound theology coming from the ranks and other times i hear nut jobs like this person, and I just shake my head and be thankful that they are not around me. We have all kinds so far, zealots who wish they could be Orthodox or the RC, and whack jobs who think anything goes. I am somewhere int he middle, as i think most people are in my church.

Well, I am just grateful to God that I live in England. That makes things a bit easier with regard to my decision to let my children be confirmed in the Anglican Church.

[higgs2]

Yes, I am very grateful that I live in England! The only wacky people I have heard of, seem to come from the Episcopal Church, not the good old C of E. Thanks be to God.



Sorry, I did not mean to insult the Anglican Church.



I think he was referring to my post. I am a former Roman Catholic and am about to join the Anglican Church.



Well, I am just grateful to God that I live in England. That makes things a bit easier with regard to my decision to let my children be confirmed in the Anglican Church. As far as I am aware, the Episcopal Church is in America so they have no influence over here.

THank you so much for calling the Presiding Bishop of my church "wacky". :( I would like to see us treat each other a bit more repectfully here, which includes the Churches we belong to.

[higgs2]

We have no idea when this comment was made or in what context, or even if it was made. Was it 20 years ago? Yesterday? I don't understand why this is even being brought up for discussion other than to cause disagreement. THe entire issue is repulsive.

[She]

THank you so much for calling the Presiding Bishop of my church "wacky". :( I would like to see us treat each other a bit more repectfully here, which includes the Churches we belong to.

Well, I so much did not want to insult you that I have edited my post. Please edit your quote of my post. Thank you.

[gtsecc]

I think it is a problem that our National Church doesn't have the will to defrock people who make statements like this.

[longhair75]

I think it is a problem that our National Church doesn't have the will to defrock people who make statements like this.
Friend gtsecc,

Does our national church have a mechanism in place by which a priest may be defrocked?

[gtsecc]

Friend gtsecc,

Does our national church have a mechanism in place by which a priest may be defrocked?
Yes.

[longhair75]

Yes.
Could you please elaborate?

[masuwerte]

Again, we don't know the context in which this statement was made. Everybody puts a foot in the mouth from time time, maybe this is just a misstatement that she regrets. So, Glen, do you have a link?

[masuwerte]

She, please try not to be swayed by what you read here on this board. Don't make your decisions based upon the limited perceptions of people here. Talk to real people in the Anglican community that you are associated with.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to karen freeinchristman again"

[SirTimothy]

Glen, your agenda about women in the ministry in America is in no ways shown in the rest of the world. My diocese--a global south diocese at that--has a woman deacon. She's about as sound as it gets. I know plenty of women priests in the UK--sound as a bell. Karen's going to be another one of them. The problem in America is that the ECUSA didn't start ordaining women in a valid, licit manner, thus it is still seen as 'liberal fringe' (and there's probably plenty of male priests who are also liberal fringe) The rest of the Anglican communion did.

Tim

[No Swansong]

Glen, your agenda about women in the ministry in America is in no ways shown in the rest of the world. My diocese--a global south diocese at that--has a woman deacon. She's about as sound as it gets. I know plenty of women priests in the UK--sound as a bell. Karen's going to be another one of them. The problem in America is that the ECUSA didn't start ordaining women in a valid, licit manner, thus it is still seen as 'liberal fringe' (and there's probably plenty of male priests who are also liberal fringe) The rest of the Anglican communion did.

Tim
I am interested Timothy in how you view one as licit and the other as not. Please expound.

[SirTimothy]

The Philadelphia Eleven started off as being outside the norm as I understand it--even though in many parts of the USA they are not regarded as fully licit. In the Church of England and in the Anglican Church of Canada, we agreed to do it, then we did it. We didn't break any rules in doing so, nor were women ordained prior to agreeing to do so. Thus there is a very different stigma attached in the CofE and the ECUSA as far as I can tell. HOWEVER, I am sure there are sound good women priests in the ECUSA, even if Glen hasn't found any yet, I just suggest that they are viewed differently with those with a historical mindset.

[higgs2]

The Philadelphia Eleven started off as being outside the norm as I understand it--even though in many parts of the USA they are not regarded as fully licit. In the Church of England and in the Anglican Church of Canada, we agreed to do it, then we did it. We didn't break any rules in doing so, nor were women ordained prior to agreeing to do so. Thus there is a very different stigma attached in the CofE and the ECUSA as far as I can tell. HOWEVER, I am sure there are sound good women priests in the ECUSA, even if Glen hasn't found any yet, I just suggest that they are viewed differently with those with a historical mindset.
Well, in my neck of the woods female priests are not at all uncommon, and there is no "stigma" attached whatsoever. YOur average parishioner takes it for granted that "of course some priests are women". I've been to national church conferences and there whether a priest is a man or a woman does not seem to matter at all. Female priests are as common as sliced bread and are here to stay.

[gtsecc]

I did not say all female Priests are ultra liberal.
I believe the Priestess, herself, actually said that.
That ECUSA did not defrock her, is problematic.
It hurts all of us that are Anglicans, and makes it difficult for us to evangelize.
It further incriminates ECUSA for allowing this to go on.
Is ECUSA sympathetic?
Are they pro-choice?
It is increasingly clear that a good segment of ECUSA actually holds to some sort of liturgical Gnostic feminism, rather than Christianity.
This polarizes the Church.
What if someone is a conservative, basically catholic woman, and wants to be a priest? Have they helped her in reality? Or hurt they way she is initially perceived?

Longhair - I am not sure what you want me to tell you. I can't off the top of my head post the canons for defrocking a priest, but they do exist, and it has been done.

When the female priest issue first came up – the policy was that no one would be forced to accept them.

Now, there is a canon the requires someone to assent to female priests and Bishops, or they may not be consecrated Bishop. We have gone from an appeal to tolerance, and come full circle to not tolerating the traditional view.

So what Priests have seen pressure from the national church for their views?
The conservatives.
To name 2 examples – Bishop Scolfield, and Bishop Moyer.
Their crime?
They don’t accept women priests?

[Finella]

Glen - BISHOP Moyer? Of Church of the Good Shepherd? Please.

[longhair75]

Friend gtsecc

Longhair - I am not sure what you want me to tell you. I can't off the top of my head post the canons for defrocking a priest, but they do exist, and it has been done.

My question was more along the lines of what authorative body is tasked to investigate the offense and decide upon the defrocking. Is this done at the diocese level? The national level? Is it a matter to be decided by the General Convention? What body has this authority?

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure a Roman Bishop can suspend a priest for cause, but the actual defrocking must come from the Vatican.

Thanks

[gtsecc]

My question was more along the lines of what authorative body is tasked to investigate the offense and decide upon the defrocking. Is this done at the diocese level? The national level? Is it a matter to be decided by the General Convention? What body has this authority?

In ECUSA, the Bishops hold autonomy, much as Eastern Orthodox Bishops, so I would geuss the Bishop of the Priest would be the one to do it.

[ContraMundum]

"If women were in charge, abortion would be a sacrament, an occasion of deep and serious and sacred meaning."
Carter Heyward ordained Episcopal priest

She is one of the Philidelphia Elven

Let's hear it for progress! :clap:
Not a terribly helpful quote, I must say. However, it does comment on the hyper-feminist position of a tiny few. Still, by and large, most women I know in Anglicanism are good, decent Christians who hold mainstream positions on most matters.

I have met a couple of ladies that would take the hyper-feminist (third wave?) position on matters like abortion and procreation etc. It's a very surreal and unnatural paradigm, and seems more informed by ultra-Maoism than the scriptures and faith. The good news is that this kind of thinking is "dying with the sixties, man". Can you dig it?

[ContraMundum]

Glen - BISHOP Moyer? Of Church of the Good Shepherd? Please.
Yes, BISHOP Moyer.

[longhair75]

Friend gtsecc,

thanks

[Torah613]

Well, thanks for posting this info before I get my children confirmed as Anglicans.

Is this person still practicing as a priest? If so, it would place a very big question mark over what type of Church would permit a person with these views to carry on practicing as a priest.
every church has someone who is a little bit out there if you know what i mean. I would also point out that we do not know the context or tone of this statement.

Finally I would point out that to de-ordain someone because of their views or sins is an affirmation of the Donatist heresy that was universally condemned by the undivided Church. The Grace of God does not depend on someone or others views, sins, or any other form of unworthiness. After all, the Apostles were all bluecollar workers with the single exception of Mathew who was an IRS agent.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars

[gtsecc]

every church has someone who is a little bit out there if you know what i mean. I would also point out that we do not know the context or tone of this statement.

Finally I would point out that to de-ordain someone because of their views or sins is an affirmation of the Donatist heresy that was universally condemned by the undivided Church. The Grace of God does not depend on someone or others views, sins, or any other form of unworthiness. After all, the Apostles were all bluecollar workers with the single exception of Mathew who was an IRS agent.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars
Actually, no.
If the Priest or Bishop teaches falsely, they are corrected, and if they continue, they are not only defrocked, they have placed themselves outside of the communion.

[Torah613]

true, but she has not been defrocked. Nor were the RC Priests who cooperated with the Nazi's, or other fascist regimes. Nor were the EO Priests who were KGB agents.

We could go all day mentioning denomination after denomination and there would be at least one not quite so bright shining star in each. If your looking for a church full of perfect people, you should stay home--and get rid of your mirrors in a hurry. The Church is full of people who aren't so great. However the Anglican Church has produced many beacons of holiness including the Wesley brothers and Julian of Norwhich. Rome produced numerous heros during this time such as Pius XII who had a tree planted in his honor in Isreal as a Rightious Gentile for his efforts in saving Italian Jewry from persecution. The EO church produced St. Tikhon, the Royal Martyrs, and numerous others.

I was simply pointing out that even if a priest (note that the priest in question is in another province of the Communion than the part in which the user resides) has a few strange views than they are still a Priest. Even if a Priest is defrocked he/she is still a Priest. Whole indellable character and all that.

We still do not know the context of this quote. Many times such inflamatory quotes turn out to be less so when one knows the context from which it was lifted and the background leading to the venue in which the lifted quote was originally given.

Joe Zollars

[Torah613]

As a final observation on the subject, we are not Roman Catholics and the Anglican Communion by nature is not a centralized beast. Whether or not this Priest continues to be a Priest should primarily be the concern of her parishoners and lastly members of the diocese. Members of TEC can have some concern in the issue, but those in other provinces aren't really affected and so its not really any of their concern. I hate to be blunt, but the fact of the matter is Abp. Akinola is still a Bishop. I may disagree with his views, but as one who is not in his diocese it is not my place to call for his deposition. In fact it really doesn't concern me at all.

Joe Zollars