Police inside church

[liveandlove]

The megachurch i used to go to has policemen in the lobby. I do not feel comfortable with that. they have their own security guy who walks around in plain clothes and they also have police in uniform watching the lobby. do any of you have this going on in your churches? I don't know if this is common practice.

[Hagakure]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Depending on how large the congregation is and if your pastor is a fairly public figure, it would be wise to enlist the services of the police for his and his parish's safety.

Again, if he is somewhat of a public figure (or even simply very well-known in your local town), he may have receieved death threats, harassing or threatening mail, or some other such thing. In light of those things, it's actually a pretty responsible thing for him to do.

Be well!

--Bill

[whateveristrue]

I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with police in church. If a pastor authorizes the presence of police in his church, it implies he is willing to use physical perhaps lethal force for whatever reason. And that just shouldn't be... not in a church. People come to church for peace.

[Hagakure]

If a pastor authorizes the presence of police in his church, it implies he is willing to use physical perhaps lethal force for whatever reason.
Including defending himself or his parish against someone who wishes them harm.

And that just shouldn't be... not in a church. People come to church for peace.
Unless you're the one person who's come to cause the pastor or his parish harm.

[whateveristrue]

I didn't see Jesus have any security guards or police.

[HeyHomie]

Any time you assemble several thousand people in one place, there's always going to be someone who could potentially cause trouble. Having security officers makes sense. If you wind up never needing them - all the better!

[mont974x4]

Why not ask why?


I have experienced a church that actually had bouncers. Needless to say, we didn't continue attending there.

I personally provided security for clergymen and other non-combatants in a warzone. That is acceptible. Here in the States, it is not necessary and should throw up a warning flag.

[whateveristrue]

Any time you assemble several thousand people in one place, there's always going to be someone who could potentially cause trouble. Having security officers makes sense. If you wind up never needing them - all the better!
And that's fine. They can have security guards, but they can stand outside... not in the church, where people worship... where we are supposed to be in the presence of God... unless you believe God is not capable of protecting His people.

[HeyHomie]

... unless you believe God is not capable of protecting His people.

People have been shot & killed in church before.

[mont974x4]

It will happen again too..and much worse.

[WesWoodell]

The megachurch i used to go to has policemen in the lobby. I do not feel comfortable with that.

Do you have children who leave your side to go to Bible class?

You may not be aware, but large churches are prime targets for kidnappers and pedophiles.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

The megachurch i used to go to has policemen in the lobby. I do not feel comfortable with that. they have their own security guy who walks around in plain clothes and they also have police in uniform watching the lobby. do any of you have this going on in your churches? I don't know if this is common practice.

I have never experienced this. Though it can make sense if there have been threats against your pastor or the church, I do not think I personally would feel comfortable with it.

Since there have been past tragedies at churches, we know that security can be an issue. I do not feel it is wrong. I just would not like it.

[tturt]

I wouldn't like it but our society is different now. There have been ministers who have been slapped, guns pointed at them, women taken out of services, etc. It could even be regarding domestic violence.

poster: about no guards b/c Christ didn't have any. There's no reference to the internet in the Bible either but we're on it.

[linssue55]

The megachurch i used to go to has policemen in the lobby. I do not feel comfortable with that. they have their own security guy who walks around in plain clothes and they also have police in uniform watching the lobby. do any of you have this going on in your churches? I don't know if this is common practice.First off I would NEVER go to Mega churches. They are stadiums for "Entertaining" people. They do not TEACH the word of God.

I think they are a disgrace to true christianity.

[macrohard]

I know there are police inside my church, because they are members.:)

We have a fairly large Baptist church down the street, and every Sunday you see officers helping with parking and traffic control.

Look at it this way, they may be authority figures in our community, but they need Jesus just as much as any one else.

[pgp_protector]

I didn't see Jesus have any security guards or police.

Your right, none of them ever carried any weapons.


Wait, didn't someone cut of an ear with a sword ? Why did Jesus allow his followers to carry weapons ?

[mont974x4]

Luk 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

seems there is a time for the sword, and a time for no sword

[whateveristrue]

When you have police patroling in church, the message you're sending out is; if you are out of line we're gonna shoot you or drag you to jail. In other words, if you do something bad, you're gonna get hurt. People don't need that kind of pressure at church! They need to come as they are to meet God, and experience grace. How many people who need church are sinners or have committed crimes in the past?.. Church is supposed to be a place of refuge. Having police there is a big turn-off.

Nowhere in the Gospels or the book of Acts did the disciples hire personal security guards. They put their lives in God's hands. And yes, some died because of that... but if you died for the sake of the gospel, isn't that the greater blessing? Well, that's assuming the pastors of these megachurches are preaching the true gospel.

[Diatheke]

Do you have children who leave your side to go to Bible class?

You may not be aware, but large churches are prime targets for kidnappers and pedophiles.

Most bigger churches require you to check your children in at the childrens department, your child is assigned a number that only you and the staff know and your child cannot leave the room until you show up with the appropriate number.

Safety is an important factor and that could stand to reason but since you are presenting that as fact, do you have any data to back that up?
I'm not questioning what you say, I am actually interested in seeing the data.

[Diatheke]

When you have police patroling in church, the message you're sending out is; if you are out of line we're gonna shoot you or drag you to jail. In other words, if you do something bad, you're gonna get hurt. People don't need that kind of pressure at church! They need to come as they are to meet God, and experience grace. How many people who need church are sinners or have committed crimes in the past?.. Church is supposed to be a place of refuge. Having police there is a big turn-off.

Nowhere in the Gospels or the book of Acts did the disciples hire personal security guards. They put their lives in God's hands. And yes, some died because of that... but if you died for the sake of the gospel, isn't that the greater blessing? Well, that's assuming the pastors of these megachurches are preaching the true gospel.


I don't know of any reasonable person that would feel pressure due to a police presence, if your not a criminal or breaking the law you have no worries.
Its not like the police are going to shoot or arrest you for reading a Message Bible or leaving the service early.

[RonnyRulz]

Wait, didn't someone cut of an ear with a sword ? Why did Jesus allow his followers to carry weapons ?


Jesus rebuked the one who used his sword to cut off an ear. Mute point.

Jesus allowed everyone to do everything. And He made it clear to never use the sword. The disciples didn't get what he was saying when he said "That's enough" about 2 swords. They thought he meant literal swords, pft. Those dumbos :P

Jesus is all about nonviolence. And if you're under God's Will, He will protect you. You don't need bodyguards and police, unless you're outside of God's Will.

Apparently God is too weak to protect His people, especially His anointed. </sarcasm> -_-
People have police, security, and bouncers in church because they see God as a pathetic weakling. They lack faith and don't know the power of God.

Jesus even said something about these types of people...

Matthew 22:29
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

None of God's anointed need any other protection than God Himself and whatever God's Will is. Maybe personal bodyguards, maybe...but police in everyday American church? Maybe that's when they need to realize the church has gotten too big and needs to split? I don't like megachurches. That doesn't mean they're bad though, and I'm ignorant so I don't understand anything like police and "protection" but what I do understand is that God protects His children from harm: especially His Anointed.

[Diatheke]

I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with police in church. If a pastor authorizes the presence of police in his church, it implies he is willing to use physical perhaps lethal force for whatever reason. And that just shouldn't be... not in a church. People come to church for peace.

I didn't see Jesus have any security guards or police.
Nowhere in the Gospels or the book of Acts did the disciples hire personal security guards. They put their lives in God's hands. And yes, some died because of that... but if you died for the sake of the gospel, isn't that the greater blessing? Well, that's assuming the pastors of these megachurches are preaching the true gospel.[/quote]

Jesus is God and could blind crowds and just walk off at will, no one could take his life until He was ready to lay it down - he did not need guards.

What if its you or your family that ends up laying down their life? Are you O.K. with that?

[Diatheke]

Pastors are shepherds and like any good shepherd if he needs an extra guard to protect his sheep from the wolves then he is obligated to hire them.
If he felt that his sheep might be in peril and did nothing to prevent their harm he would not be a very good sheperd.

[Diatheke]

Why is everyone on this thead assuming the danger is only in a mega-chuch, how about the recent case in Oregon where a man burst in, threw gas on the congregants and set them on fire, it was a church of about 300.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/10/27/man_torches_ore_church_during_service/

[dalej42]

There is always an officer at my church on Sundays.

The main reason is to watch the parking lot. There are at least 500 cars in the lot at the 11:00 AM service.

[whateveristrue]

What if its you or your family that ends up laying down their life? Are you O.K. with that?



I don't ever welcome tragedy, but if it is God's will.... I am OK with that.

[pgp_protector]

I don't ever welcome tragedy, but if it is God's will.... I am OK with that.
God dose not come to kill, that's the job of Satin.

What God want & what happens is not the same. God want the whole world to come to Him, He knows it's not going to happen, and that grieves Him.

[Diatheke]

I don't ever welcome tragedy, but if it is God's will.... I am OK with that.

Your certainly entitled to your beliefs but do you really that it could be Gods will for your family to get injured or killed, especially in Gods house.
That seems more like the devils line of work.

[whateveristrue]

Your certainly entitled to your beliefs but do you really that it could be Gods will for your family to get injured or killed, especially in Gods house.
That seems more like the devils line of work.

I don't have the answer to that; but I do know God is in control. And I also know all things do work for the good of those who love Him.

[whateveristrue]

In my opinion, the church needs to stay focused on the mission. So a troublemaker shows up... what do you do? Well, you can hand him over to the police... or you can pull him aside, share the gospel with him, and pray that there will be transformation in his life. And God is capable of doing amazing things.

You can always call 911 for emergencies.

[Diatheke]

I don't have the answer to that; but I do know God is in control. And I also know all things do work for the good of those who love Him.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to put you on the spot,
my personal beliefs are that its not Gods will for anyone to die young but thats another thread.

[Hagakure]

Apparently God is too weak to protect His people, especially His anointed. </sarcasm> -_-
People have police, security, and bouncers in church because they see God as a pathetic weakling. They lack faith and don't know the power of God.
I definately see what you're saying and to some extent I agree. But the Pastor is "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't". Imagine that something DOES happen and there wasn't anyone there to protect the parish. His congregation would be up in arms about not having someone there. In the event that a child is kidnapped, it won't comfort the parents that "it was just the will of God".

[rocklife]

I went to a large church with a tv pastor, there were police in the lobby. I was with my baby son in the lobby and saw the police carrying huge money bags.

and that pastor has probably recieved threats too, but money was what I saw them handling. That was really weird to me. (I don't go there, I was just visiting)

[pgp_protector]

I went to a large church with a tv pastor, there were police in the lobby. I was with my baby son in the lobby and saw the police carrying huge money bags.

and that pastor has probably recieved threats too, but money was what I saw them handling. That was really weird to me. (I don't go there, I was just visiting)
Police normally don't carry money bags, sure it wasn't brinks or other banking security ?

[rocklife]

I am 99% sure it was the city police.

I looked carefully because I was shocked at how huge the money bags were. And I wasn't where most of the congregation was during the service

I worked at gas stations for several years, I know the difference between police and Brinks. The police also direct traffic for the church too.

I could be wrong, but ... I don't think so. I also remembered thinking if the police are getting their cut or something fishy, we did have 20 of them busted for corruption in an FBI sting after that, in headline news. the pastor there also is a millionaire. I don't attend there anymore so I probably won't be able to double check.

maybe the police are in the lobby as a one time thing, for the OP. never know.

[liveandlove]

thanks all, for your input. in response to some of them, no the police officers are not members of the congregation and weren't there to worship. they were in their uniforms, armed and ready and they also kind of look people up and down which is weird. i don't know if the pastor has had threats against him but i know some people have left the staff due to difference of opinion.

I brought this up because I also would think that this is God's house and God is mighty and can easily protect his people. It is a matter of having faith and trust in God. Like I said, they already have their own security people in plainclothes. This is not a congregation of thousands, each service is only close to 700 but they do have lots of services and estimate their membership to 7000 families.

I am still bothered that the congregation does not trust in the protection of God. Maybe I am wrong but I think putting too much trust in men rather than on God is not a good example.

[rosiecotton]

As for not trusting God to protect his people, we can apply that to other things. Such as wearing a seatbelt. Should I not wear one because I believe God will protect me and not let me get injured or die in a wreck? Or putting a baby in a car seat? Surely God would protect them wouldn't He? So, I should just let the baby lie on the seat without the protection of a car seat?
Why don't you just ask and find out why the police are there?

[indagroove]

I definately see what you're saying and to some extent I agree. But the Pastor is "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't". Imagine that something DOES happen and there wasn't anyone there to protect the parish. His congregation would be up in arms about not having someone there. In the event that a child is kidnapped, it won't comfort the parents that "it was just the will of God".

That's about right. If investigated closer, one might find that the Churches Insurance is greatly discounted by taking measures to insure public safty. It depends on your demographics and location. I know we pay the township to provide on LOE and cruiser to be visible, and provide traffic control to the main highway.

While it is God's house, he still expects us to do our part to protect it, and the people.

[Starcrystal]

Perhaps he was threatened or a member was threatened and it's not publicised? I've seen violence in small churches of under 50 people: 2 guys fighting over a woman, a man who "layed hands" on me to forbid me to pray for someone who *almost* got backhanded over the pew... (I resisted temptation since I discerned the devil at play in the man), "bouncers" standing up to enforce a pastors request for someone to leave and to be honest the pastor wasn't right in doing so. I hate to say it but it was the LEADERSHIP in the church that initiated the violence & bouncing, and it was the members who acted in accordance with Jesus peace.

In a megachurch I have no idea what it going on. As far as I'm concerned they should put the cops in the schools to prevent senseless killings of students by other students... that happens more than violence in church I think.

[flyingsum0]

Police in Church wouldnt bother me at all

[WesWoodell]

Safety is an important factor and that could stand to reason but since you are presenting that as fact, do you have any data to back that up?

I'm not questioning what you say, I am actually interested in seeing the data.


I don't remember where its from ... but I remember learning that in my Christian Education class I took at Harding University under Dr. Jerry Bowling (who holds Christian Education seminars around the country).

I also personally know a man who's one of the pastors of a 2,000 member congregation, and since he joined that church there have been two kidnapping attempts. Both were two different divorced dads who didn't have custody of the kids (and I think these type of situations are common to most kidnapping attempts at church services).

[WesWoodell]

I am still bothered that the congregation does not trust in the protection of God. Maybe I am wrong but I think putting too much trust in men rather than on God is not a good example.

In Matthew 10:16 Jesus says "Be as wise as serpents, and as innocent as doves."

God gave us intellect, and he instructed us to use them.

Was Israel wrong for posting guards at the gates of Jerusalem?

[twistedsketch]

That doesn't sound normal at all. If this was in a different country that didn't have religious freedom, I would probably find a different church.

I go to a big church, but not a mega church. To watch over the kids we have an elaborate system of tags for kids, teachers, parents, and other children's ministry staff. We have a gatekeeper to the children's wing who wears his tag. I didn't even like this at first, it shouldn't be needed in church. But then I thought about how much we were growing and how a kidnapper or pedo could get in and I accepted it. No uniformed cops though. If anything like that was needed in any way, I'm sure the pastor would mention it in passing at least when he'd come up to talk.

[pgp_protector]

I go to a large church, and wish we had more security at times.

The wonderful unsaved people in the area know what time our services start & stop, so they know when noone will be going to there cars. And we've had multiple cars broken into, we've had thieves inside the church stealing stuff during alter calls, and even breaking into the offices & removing laptops and such.