Non-Denomination V.S. Other?! [Archive]

Zecryphon

7th November 2006, 09:16 PM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!
I don't think God cares about denominations, but rather the commitment and heart of the person. Ya know the whole good fruit, bad fruit thing. Nobody sets out to be a bad Christian. If you are in a non-denominational church that teaches sound doctrine that is true to the scriptures, I don't think God is going to pay attention to what church you received this in. There are certain churches that I think are way off the mark from what I've read and seen of their teachings, but a "saved" person can be from any denomination. In the end I don't think God cares about what denomination you are. I'm hoping to become a member of the LCMS myself.

UBERROGO

7th November 2006, 09:54 PM

Define denomination please.

888Ariel

7th November 2006, 09:57 PM

Well, that's a hard question. Who, in his right mind, would presume to speak what God thinks - unless it is to simply quote the unadorned Word of God.

That said, I will venture my own thoughts on the subject of denominations. The very number of them is staggering. And, to me that brings forth the question, "Which one is the right one?"

Once we have decided on a particular one, we are categorically stating that all the others are wrong.

Personally, I believe that God has reserved jewels in His crown from all of these Christian denominations. I am non-denominational because I believe strictly the Bible. Once dogma is added in the form of church doctrine, then a rigid structure develops which may hinder the move of the Holy Spirit if it conflicts with established doctrine.

There are still a number of churches in every area of this country which do not define doctrine, but are led by the Spirit of God. You will know it when you find one, because your own spirit witnesses with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Try it, and a whole new world will open to you. Read Isaiah, Chapter 58.

UBERROGO

7th November 2006, 10:13 PM

Once dogma is added in the form of church doctrine, then a rigid structure develops which may hinder the move of the Holy Spirit if it conflicts with established doctrine.

Why would a church erect dogma that is in conflict with the Holy Spirit? Odd.

twistedsketch

7th November 2006, 10:39 PM

If I thought He cared, I wouldn't be non-denominational, would I? It's nice to say you're a Christian, and people ask you what kind, and you can say "just Christian."

InDeoHonorium2

7th November 2006, 11:01 PM

God did not invent denominations, or any religion for that matter
What matters is the closeness you have to God, where God is in your heart...not where you worship

JesusFreak4L

7th November 2006, 11:34 PM

wow you all have good points!...thank you much for responding to my thread!...if you have any other thoughts just feel free to speak!! thanks

-JesusFreak4L

Wisdom's Child

8th November 2006, 06:22 AM

The Bible assures us that there is a scattered "remnant" of believers everywhere that Satan has planted his tares...

jfer45

8th November 2006, 07:19 AM

I wonder if God cares what we "believe".

beehoney

8th November 2006, 07:33 AM

beehoney

8th November 2006, 07:34 AM

I wonder if God cares what we "believe".
He does. That's why he gave us the Bible.

angelsword

8th November 2006, 11:58 AM

God did not invent denominations, or any religion for that matter
What matters is the closeness you have to God, where God is in your heart...not where you worship
I completely agree!

UBERROGO

9th November 2006, 02:01 AM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!

He cares that you are after Truth and willing to accept the Truth. Truth may be embodied in different denominations, alongside or without lies. Whatever the "truest" religion is, that is the one He wants us to be involved in. He probably saves people inspite of thier failing to recognize the Truth in some cases.

jfer45

9th November 2006, 02:25 AM

He does. That's why he gave us the Bible.
That's up for debate.

beehoney

9th November 2006, 04:58 AM

That's up for debate.I don't think it's debatable, but that's just my humble opinion.

JesusFreak4L

9th November 2006, 08:52 AM

i would say that God does care what we believe!...because there is only one way to the Lord and the only way is by following the Bible and believing that he is your personal savior and died on the cross for our sins!..I would say he does care!!!

-JesusFreak4L

888Ariel

11th November 2006, 08:16 PM

Why would a church erect dogma that is in conflict with the Holy Spirit? Odd.
UBERROGO --

You have asked an important question. Some churches do, and some do not. Many times the answer to your question is political in nature. Many times the answer lies in the fact that different members interpret the church's dogma differently. When that happens, you have a split, or the creation of another sect of the same denomination.

In either instance, political or interpretational, the members are acting in the flesh instead of walking after the Spirit of God. If every one yielded to the Holy Spirit, there would be no division in the Body of Christ.

So, when you really think about it, it isn't so odd. By and large, it is a great tragedy in the Church. I admit that this is only my opinion, but thank you for asking.

A friend in Jesus,

888Ariel

New_Wineskin

11th November 2006, 11:26 PM

marke

12th November 2006, 12:02 AM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!
Was that denominations or abominations?

Jesus envisioned One Mind, One Church. This is what we need to return to. But people want to believe what they want to believe and Christianity has been corrupted by cash and if preachers told the truth, there wouldn't be as much cash to pay for their jet fuel.

The truth comes from scripture, not from behind a pulpit.

For example, how many of you believe a Christian can kill another person? Over 600 people have looked at the post "Where does Jesus give permission to kill?" and not a single piece of scripture has been produced to support that tiny bit of wrong teaching.

Faith in wrong teaching is no faith at all.

But still people don't want to give up their wrong belief concerning killing and wonder why their physical and mental health is starting to fail.

One in three soldiers are coming back from Iraq with mental trauma (33%) because their soul knows it's wrong to take another human life.

Abandon the denominations. Return to the truth and the truth will being you peace. Start by standing up for correct scripture and correcting your brethren.

God Bless.

marke

12th November 2006, 12:05 AM

I don't think God cares much about the signs we put on our church buidlings.
He does if the church is leading the flock to hell rather than heaven.

Wrong teaching abounds. Why is it we can't all agree on the most basic of teachings.

Wouldn't it be more prudent to ask WHY so many denominations?

God Bless.

marke

12th November 2006, 12:15 AM

I wonder if God cares what we "believe".
Yes God cares. If you follow wrong teaching, you miss the prize and on the day of judgement, you'll take your place with the other goats. Don't let that happen.

Your life has been extended this long in the hope you'll be converted and you'd have enough faith so not to have to ask that question.

If you haven't found the comfort and joy of the Lord, perhaps your "truth" comes from the lips of a person who earns his pay by how many come to his "service" instead of from NT scripture.

You should not have made that comment if you knew the peace the Lord brings. Renew yourself with the four Gospels to re-discover the love that was meant to be yours. You seem to be lost. Seek and you shall find.

God Bless.

marke

12th November 2006, 12:25 AM

"There are still a number of churches in every area of this country which do not define doctrine, but are led by the Spirit of God. You will know it when you find one, because your own spirit witnesses with the presence of the Holy Spirit."

"Try it, and a whole new world will open to you. Read Isaiah, Chapter 58."

Good Info.
Everyone could benefit from reviewing ISA 58.

God bless.

jowana

13th November 2006, 11:40 PM

I go to a Baptist church but I went not to be sorted into a denomination. I went because it is a good church that really walks rightly with Christ. I agree that denominations are a waist of time. However by saying that, not all Baptist churches or Unting churches are alive. Churches these days tend to fall in general, perhaps the lacking of God's words. I know some denominations have become cults or sects with unbiblical beliefs so we must be careful.

FollowTheLamb

14th November 2006, 01:01 AM

We make a mistake, in my opinion, when we talk about different denominations and how they set themselves against other denomination. That's largely an illusion, for not everyone ina denomination believes the same thing. Some have researched what their denomintion believes, but I'll bet that many have not. One non-denomiational church may officially believe in the Pre-trib Rapture, while another non-denom believes in the Pre-wrath view. But in each church are a few who believe in the Post-trib rapture or no rapture at all. And in all of those denom's are peaple who live as though the rapture will never happen anyway. To talk of denomination like we are in this thread is not really practical, I think. We must think of people as individuals.

Just as the Democratic party has people who are anti-abortion, so there are Republicans who are pro-gay. There is a wide latitude within each group, whether a political group or a religious one. People are individuals, and so often the convenient labels we attach to them no longer fit them.

Reyanah

14th November 2006, 05:20 AM

noparty

14th November 2006, 05:20 AM

I've gone to a Churches of Christ my entire life in 4 different states (all Southern). We're the non-denominational denomination. We're world-reknowned for being exclusive, as in most CoC's believe they're the only ones going to heaven. That being said, no, I don't believe God cares what denomination we are, nor does anyone in my current church to my knowledge.

There's a free magazine here in town called "The Nashville Scene". They have a yearly "You're so Nashville if..." competition. Readers send in submissions and they get printed and maybe prizes are given out for the top ones or something. Anyways, one of the submissions that I loved was "You're so Nashville if...you go the the Church of Christ, but not THAT Church of Christ."

There are over 200 Churches of Christ in Nashville of all flavors. We're making serious progress as far as becoming less exclusive. I think that's a wonderful thing. I think that's what Jesus would want.

jowana

17th December 2006, 11:09 PM

DArceri

17th December 2006, 11:54 PM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!
Since this is a non-denominational thread, it seems to be almost unanimous that it is the heart God looks at. Here's my question.... WHAT IF YOUR DENOMINATION believes no one is saved outside your own denominational Church, is God going to judge the heart of each individually or does He judge the teachings of that church. My opinion is God judges the heart no matter what denomination you are, as long as you are followers of Christ. I just don't agree with churches that think its through them and not through Jesus.

Any thoughts?

Nadiine

18th December 2006, 10:09 AM

The thing is I spent all my youth year out of church. I know church is important but the thing is Christ is the CHURCH, one Body in Him. His Holy Spirit leads us, not the buildings under the divided names. Now I go to both an Anglican and Baptist church. The thing is people become legalistic in those names. The doctrines I follow are not either Baptist nor Anglican but the Doctrine of oujr true loving God by reading the Bible for growth in Him. His relationship with me.

Even tho WE are the church, God has established us (the church) to gather together (Heb. 10. do not forsake the assembling of yourselves).

Gathering together (wherever it is) is the institution God gave us to continue - we have examples of His people gathering in buildings/temples in Both Bible testaments.

To ignore that is a serious issue ('church' attendance is for our benefit).
& many churches START from small house groups that gain in size & have to move into bigger buildings. :) Church growth is a good thing. :thumbsup: :clap: GOD gives the increase. amen.

I'm glad you do go somewhere now.

SilverWings

18th December 2006, 11:38 AM

Nope. I think God wants us all to be one denomination. That's why it's written:

"Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf." (1 Corinthians 10:17).

AND

"4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Nadiine

18th December 2006, 12:04 PM

SilverWings

19th December 2006, 12:36 AM

Ok, so who picks what 1 denomination that is? a Catholic?
A Reformer? A Pentecostal? A Baptist? lol
I know, I know. I can appreciate your sense of humor about this. Really I do.

But the question is: why are there so many denominations? Who made them all up? When Jesus came, did he start off the deally by going "Ok - you people I just saved are the Presbyterians. And you, wh I just healed shall becometh known as the Baptists"?

It is man's failing, and not God's perfection that has led to the many denominations we see today.

The great struggle for us all is unity. One body, one Baptism, one Spirit. One loaf - one Jesus. One Head, one body...

Ephesians 3:10, 11: "10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord" do you realize the significance of this passage?

This means that the degree to which the church on earth is united actually dispalys God's wisdom to His spiritual enemies.

So it really is a massive burden on our shoulders every time someone thinks they have a better understanding, a deeper revelation, a more holier spirit and departs to start a new sect......

Nadiine

19th December 2006, 08:04 AM

I know, I know. I can appreciate your sense of humor about this. Really I do.

But the question is: why are there so many denominations? Who made them all up? When Jesus came, did he start off the deally by going "Ok - you people I just saved are the Presbyterians. And you, wh I just healed shall becometh known as the Baptists"?

It is man's failing, and not God's perfection that has led to the many denominations we see today.

The great struggle for us all is unity. One body, one Baptism, one Spirit. One loaf - one Jesus. One Head, one body...

We need only to look as far as Paul, Mark & Barnabus who had a sharp contention btwn them & divided company.
We need only look as far as the NT where divisions started way back then. "I am from Apollos, I am from Paul, I am from Yeshua"... etc.

Here's one reason for denoms. THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN IN GREEK/HEBREW... and is not fully clear on everything. Paul even says, we see DIMLY now - plus, we're all at different spiritual & maturity levels of understanding (as the Spirit guides us into truth) - so we won't all AGREE on everything.

The MAIN reason for so many denominations is that FALSE TEACHING IS ABOUNDING.

I will GLADLY divide from many denoms that claim God yet preach false doctrines & promote evil as 'good'. The FALSE are multiplying (it's prophecied).

Why was there a need in historic Christianity to come up with Creeds? HERESY kept infiltrating the churches. Paul warned of it in Acts when he was leaving to travel.
He said he knew wolves would come in, not sparing the flock. He was right.
They usurp the pure teachings of God & start new denominations under the banner of Christianity.

Example: the Methodists. They were going along... & all of a sudden, their council decides, 'LET'S BRING IN PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL CLERGY'.
Now you have a splinter group: the liberal methodists & orthodox Methodists.

As for REAL Christian denoms today, most of it is simply focusing on certain doctrines they uphold and providing different types of worship. Even Non Denominationals are a denomination. lol

Take Baptists & Pentecostals - I have to admit, I don't prefer Pentecostal types of worship or preaching styles.
I don't like someone w/ a purple face screaming at me holding sweaty hankys... it makes me nervous.

Do I DIVIDE with them? NO. It's a personal thing. But as long as they're happy in it, ENJOY yourselves! :thumbsup: :holy: Who am I to judge them?

I DIVIDE ONLY WHEN A DENOM. PROMOTES HERESY and/or unbiblical doctrines; dividing from the essential doctrines that define a true Believer of God. And only then.

There's nothing wrong with denominations & styles of worship - only false teaching within one.

Scorcher505

19th December 2006, 11:20 AM

Denominations were created by the idea of religion, and God did not create religion, we did. What matters to God is devotion to His Son, and faith in Him.

SilverWings

20th December 2006, 03:31 AM

We need only to look as far as Paul, Mark & Barnabus who had a sharp contention btwn them & divided company.
We need only look as far as the NT where divisions started way back then. "I am from Apollos, I am from Paul, I am from Yeshua"... etc.

Here's one reason for denoms. THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN IN GREEK/HEBREW... and is not fully clear on everything. Paul even says, we see DIMLY now - plus, we're all at different spiritual & maturity levels of understanding (as the Spirit guides us into truth) - so we won't all AGREE on everything.

The MAIN reason for so many denominations is that FALSE TEACHING IS ABOUNDING.

I will GLADLY divide from many denoms that claim God yet preach false doctrines & promote evil as 'good'. The FALSE are multiplying (it's prophecied).

Why was there a need in historic Christianity to come up with Creeds? HERESY kept infiltrating the churches. Paul warned of it in Acts when he was leaving to travel.
He said he knew wolves would come in, not sparing the flock. He was right.
They usurp the pure teachings of God & start new denominations under the banner of Christianity.

Example: the Methodists. They were going along... & all of a sudden, their council decides, 'LET'S BRING IN PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL CLERGY'.
Now you have a splinter group: the liberal methodists & orthodox Methodists.

As for REAL Christian denoms today, most of it is simply focusing on certain doctrines they uphold and providing different types of worship. Even Non Denominationals are a denomination. lol

Take Baptists & Pentecostals - I have to admit, I don't prefer Pentecostal types of worship or preaching styles.
I don't like someone w/ a purple face screaming at me holding sweaty hankys... it makes me nervous.

Do I DIVIDE with them? NO. It's a personal thing. But as long as they're happy in it, ENJOY yourselves! :thumbsup: :holy: Who am I to judge them?

I DIVIDE ONLY WHEN A DENOM. PROMOTES HERESY and/or unbiblical doctrines; dividing from the essential doctrines that define a true Believer of God. And only then.

There's nothing wrong with denominations & styles of worship - only false teaching within one.

1. Though they divided company, they were also reconciled. Though they divided company, the denomination they all took with them was exactly the same.

2. Though the Bible is written in Greek and Hebrew, these aren't lost languages, and we know very well what the Bible says. Otherwise, we would all know nothing, and we would have no hope. God has given us the means to understand it. Even going beyond hermeneutics it speaks spiritual truths to spiritual people.

3. When Paul says "now we see a poor reflection as in in a mirror," he did not mean our understanding of the scriptures, or the understanding of salvation or of our Lord. What he is comparing is our trying to internalise the experience of knowing Christ on a personal level versus being with him "face to face." (1 Cor 13:12). We will only know the Lord perosnally to the fullest extent when we see him face to face in Heaven and the world to come.

4. Going back a step - the divisions in corinthians detailed by Paul were also condemned by Paul, not encouraged. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:13 "Was CHRIST divided?" If he was, then we can all go and make our own denominations. Since He is one head, and not many, we should make it our business to be unified as one body, no?

5. Yes, false teaching is abundant, including the false teaching about denominations being God-willed.

6. Those who are spiritual make judgments about all things, and exercise their discernemnt to protect themselves from every odd teaching, false doctrine and every heresy; themselves, and the church.

7. There's nothing wrong with being united. As Jesus said, "This is the rock upon which I will build my church." He did not say, "here are the millions of pebbles I will let men build their own 'churches' upon." Throughout the new testament, there is exhortation after exhortation to remain unified.

Nadiine

20th December 2006, 06:53 AM

1. Though they divided company, they were also reconciled. Though they divided company, the denomination they all took with them was exactly the same.

I was only relaying our propensity to disagreement and division - that they come naturally. We do not all agree on everything.
I had heard from someone that Barnabus actually went back into legalism? (let me know if he didn't, I don't know)

And some division is actually GOOD. We ARE to divide with people who are teaching error if they reject sound doctrine in correction.

**I won't set FOOT in a church that abuses the gift of tongues, focuses on gifts over gospel, preaches Baptism FOR salvation, teaches that Gehenna isn't eternal punishment (anihilationism), wrangles snakes as a main exhibit, refuses to teach on 'negative' scripture (ie. hell, sin - ie. Joel Osteen), teaches "name it & claim it" prosperity messages, teaches anti trinity or Modalism (Jesus is also the Father & Holy Spirit as one person with 3 roles)...

As far as Greek/Hebrew - how many people do we have claiming this or that bible version has mistranslated words? That "this" means "that" instead...:holy:
I wasn't implying we have no way of knowing what the lanugages mean. sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Going back a step - the divisions in corinthians detailed by Paul were also condemned by Paul, not encouraged.
Yes. I agree. Again, I was trying to relay our natural propensity to take sides & split - you asked WHY there are so many denoms. today.
That's one reason why (I wasn't saying all reasons were GOOD or right by any means!):holy:

7. There's nothing wrong with being united. As Jesus said, "This is the rock upon which I will build my church." He did not say, "here are the millions of pebbles I will let men build their own 'churches' upon

Look at the different churches Paul visited - Look at the particular issues in each separate church - Colossians had issues with angel worship... (I recall there were also issues with praying for the dead)? the Corinthians had issues with antinomianism/carnality in particular.
The churches in Jerusalem had issues with legalism that kept springing up.

EACH AREA had separate issues Paul had to address & "fix".
Different types of churches in different areas had certain customs and historical backgrounds... and modern day churches are no different. That is how denoms. are born. Some are ok, some/many are NOT ok. Nonetheless, they spring up.
***********

Instead of elaborating on all these differences - to answer why:
I'll ask this again, WHICH ONE CHURCH DO WE PICK to be the church of God for ALL Christians today so we have only ONE denomination.
And WHO is going to lead it?

Pentecostals won't want to sit under a Baptist pastor or share the same type of worship as the Baptists do.
& the lists go on as to who dislikes what of each denom.
or finds their teachings in error.

Are the pro-gay Methodist splinters going to enjoy sitting under a pastor like John Hagee? lol ^_^

Here's my point - IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT if you find it sinful or wrong.
OFFER A SOLUTION INSTEAD.

What is the solution to ending the many denoms so that ALL Christians will be spiritually fed and joyous under that banner as one church, no denominations. :help:
:angel: peace

mahalia

20th December 2006, 08:52 AM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!

hey there.
this used to bother me a lot and it took me some time to make peace with my beliefs.

imo, the sole most important condition for salvation is
John 14:6

however, i do also bleiev that we will be rewarded according to our actions, but i don't believe those actions include whether you're baptist or methodist etc.

of course when a denomination starts doing something strictly against christian principle that's wrong, but i go to so many different churches and i've observed and though some are less loud than others in their worship, i still see nothing wrong with any of them .

imo, one must worhsip in the conditions where you connect best with God. if you like the noise of a charismatic church, and you feel the Holy Spirit there, why not? if you liek the more traditional churches with the tradtional hymns etc... why not?

mahalia

20th December 2006, 08:55 AM

Here's my point - IT ISN'T ENOUGH TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT if you find it sinful or wrong.
OFFER A SOLUTION INSTEAD.

What is the solution to ending the many denoms so that ALL Christians will be spiritually fed and joyous under that banner as one church, no denominations. :help:
:angel: peace

i agree with your pinciple of finding a solution rather than just complaining.

however... i think the solution isn't finding a way of making all the many denominations one, but rather finding a way to get rid of the vibes and prejudce between different denoms.

Nadiine

20th December 2006, 10:04 AM

i agree with your pinciple of finding a solution rather than just complaining.

however... i think the solution isn't finding a way of making all the many denominations one, but rather finding a way to get rid of the vibes and prejudce between different denoms.

I fully agree - my position is, that's what many denoms already do. Most non denominational churches I've been a part of, don't discriminate & divide with other brothers & sisters of other denoms. (providing they're authentically CHRISTIAN).

I have no problem with denomination names & differences; I unite with any & all true believers of the same faith wherever they worship and IN our differences.
:clap: :amen: :hug:

linssue55

20th December 2006, 10:09 AM

hey i was wondering if you think God really cares about what denomination we are as long as we believe in him as our eternal Lord and that he died for us and rose again for our sins?! tell me what u think!

Denominations is what seperates us Christians today. God IS of NO denomination, NEVER has been, and never will be. Man created that huge error. "We now are reaping what we have sown". Chaos!

SilverWings

20th December 2006, 10:50 AM

Excellent post, linssue55.

Nadiine

20th December 2006, 11:15 AM

Denominations is what seperates us Christians today. God IS of NO denomination, NEVER has been, and never will be. Man created that huge error. "We now are reaping what we have sown". Chaos!

I'm not in disagreement with you here, but can I ask what exactly is wrong or what the harm is in going to a Baptist church? Or a Pentecostal church? or Luthern church?

I guess I'm asking, what is so evil about different denominations that preach the true gospel of Christ & serve the Lord in a community?

& Can i ask what the SOLUTION is to this? I keep hearing the condemnations & complaints, but what will solve this exactly?
Remember, NON denominations ARE a denomination in & of themselves.

And I don't doubt that you will have a different Idea of what the "right" Christian church is than the next person....?

I don't just want to hear that there's something wrong, i want to know how it's supposed to be fixed by us.
Let's FIX this wrong if it's so bad.

Nadiine

20th December 2006, 11:18 AM

by the way: denominations don't split me from other Christians;
false teachings do. ;)

I love ALL my Christian brothers & sisters of ALL genuine Christian denominations.
Unity in our differences.

pdfiddler

20th December 2006, 02:06 PM

# 44 & 45 :yawn: :(

Nadiine

20th December 2006, 09:50 PM

ditto #46

& if you disagree, then by all means, bring your solutions to fix it.
Maybe it's non denominationals that just don't seem to find agreement?

makes me wonder

SilverWings

21st December 2006, 01:26 AM

yeshuaslavejeff

21st December 2006, 06:50 AM

simple

yeshuaslavejeff

21st December 2006, 07:05 AM

simple

Nadiine

21st December 2006, 07:29 AM

Yes. What is the solution to the fractured body of Christ?

Is it found in the ego? Is it found in conceit? Is it found in condemning others? Is it found in complaining? Or complaining about complaints?

What is the problem with going to one church as opposed to another? What makes one church different from another? Different interpretations of the Bible. Different canon. Different doctrine. Different practises. No two churches speak the same language. According to the phenomenologists, that is all well and good. But truth is not in the mouths of philosophers. It's found in Jesus alone. The church must be of one mind, and one spirit. The church must speak the same language. Differences don't come about through being clever. But by being pompous, arrogant, conceited, proud, and Biblically off-base.

The answers await in the Bible. The problem is, like all bible answers, it's got to get from the Bible into the heart.

I hear you. =)
Well, I don't consider myself (& many others) "fractured" for being in a denomination...

To all non denoms. who find denominationalism "ungodly/bad":

Just look at the non denominational area here at CF.
Do all non denominationalists agree together as ONE BODY of Christ here?
Hardly! (then again, by admission of beliefs, I also don't consider some to even be born again as per scripture definition of a Christian)..

So how do we go about getting all NON denominationalists to agree here at CF first?
Can we "fix" others when we're equally divided??

Maybe after we're fixed (taking the beam out of our own eyes before we judge others), then maybe we can see well enough to fix those baptists, anabaptists & pentecostals & lutherns & charismatics & methodists & reformists & Catholics & Messianic Jews & 7th Day Adventists & COC's, eastern orthodox's....

I'd like to add 1 point (re. CF) - I see MORE agreement within some of the above denoms. than I see in this non denom area! When I visited the Baptist & Reformed sections, THEY ARE IN HARMONY together within their denom. There is unity & agreement there. I don't see that in this non denom. area. Why is that?

We CAN be one body of Christ WITHIN our differences of expression of worship & imperfect understandings of scripture which disagree with others beliefs.
Do we all have to be of ONE denomination to please God? Do we all have to agree on all issues? I don't think so (not when they aren't CENTRAL to salvation).

IMO, the only ones we should seek to change are those who DIVIDE from other genuine Christians becuz of their "religious spirit".

I think John is pretty clear:
1Jo 3:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Jo/1Jo003.html#14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

If we don't love the family of God, are we actually His? But does love entail 100% agreement on all spiritual matters or being in one church?
I don't personally think so.

Until WE fix ourselves, we aren't fit to fix others we point at in contempt.

mahalia

21st December 2006, 08:30 AM

like i said before... maybe there's nothing wrong with different denoms... we as christians should simply learn to accept that different people worship Christ in different ways and deal with it

yeshuaslavejeff

21st December 2006, 08:37 AM

simple, but don't do nor go along with what's wrong. It is written, "Put the wicked(who won't repent) out from among you."

CrazyforYeshua

21st December 2006, 08:47 AM

The walls need to come down. If a church is a born again church, and the Gospel is preached, with no compromise, it is Gods' church.
Anybody remember the March for Jesus? It tore down so many walls in this area for the 4 years we had it, it was amazing. We also gather with a Baptist church quite a few times a year for joint services, baptism/picnics, things of that nature. My Pastor also gathers together with other Pastors in this area twice a week for breakfast and prayer.
The church needs to come out of their comfort zone, out of their 4 walls, and gather together with brothers and sisters in Christ. We can talk all day, but until we get out and do something, nothing is gonna change.
As far as the OP, the only thing God cares about is His word being taught, souls brought to the Kingdom, and the church being the church, and serving others. What the name is doesn't matter, we are all the church of Christ.

linssue55

21st December 2006, 10:21 AM

I'm not in disagreement with you here, but can I ask what exactly is wrong or what the harm is in going to a Baptist church? Or a Pentecostal church? or Luthern church?
Again non-denominational....we follow Christ, He is non-den..

I guess I'm asking, what is so evil about different denominations that preach the true gospel of Christ & serve the Lord in a community?
God wants us to LEARN the REAL truth, HIS truth, the whole truth, not the truth of men as denominations see it. Too many changes have been made to the original word of God through the centuries, and God will hold these seperate beliefs responsible, as He will the people that attend them.

& Can i ask what the SOLUTION is to this? I keep hearing the condemnations & complaints, but what will solve this exactly?
Only Christ WILL change this when He reigns.

Remember, NON denominations ARE a denomination in & of themselves.
Wrong! It has no title.

And I don't doubt that you will have a different Idea of what the "right" Christian church is than the next person....?
THIS is the EXACT problem with us today. This is my entire point.

I don't just want to hear that there's something wrong, i want to know how it's supposed to be fixed by us.
Let's FIX this wrong if it's so bad. Like I said ONLY Christ will fix this. When He returns and rules, there will ONLY be ONE word, and the word denomination won't ever enter into it. Remember this is the devil's world, and many are following his plan of confusion, and the split of churches by denominations is just ONE small thing he has going on right now. So MANY are following his doctrines, BECAUSE we don't know the true written word of God......without putting our own personal and traditional beliefs into the word.

yeshuaslavejeff

21st December 2006, 10:51 PM

simple, don't do what's wrong

angelsword

8th January 2007, 05:38 PM

The church needs to come out of their comfort zone, out of their 4 walls, and gather together with brothers and sisters in Christ. We can talk all day, but until we get out and do something, nothing is gonna change.
As far as the OP, the only thing God cares about is His word being taught, souls brought to the Kingdom, and the church being the church, and serving others. What the name is doesn't matter, we are all the church of Christ.
In the final analysis follow these creed, "What would Jesus do?" ; and "Love your neighbour as you love yourself and God above all else!" I have found truth and fault with all denominations, the end result? All will some day come to the knowledge of the truth and I am still in the process of coming to it myself!

kenrapoza

8th January 2007, 09:59 PM

Here's an illustration of denominationalism that I like:

Imagine a building with many windows on the side but only one door. An artists might walk by, look in the window and see a beautiful painting. He'll say to himself "I want to go in to meet the artist who painted this." He walks to the front and enters through the door. Later a musician might walk by and hear some beautiful music through one of the open windows. He wants to meet the composer of the music and so he walks to the front and enters through the door. A little child might walk by next and hear a comforting voice from one of the windows saying "Come to me all who are heavy-laden." The child wants to meet who it was who was speaking and so enters through the door.

People may be attracted to God, to the church, through a different nuance, but they all enter through the same door. Different denominations minister to diverse groups of people who have different sensitivities, different backgrounds and different needs. Some people love the great traditions and hymns of the church and others prefer a more informal contemporary service.

As long as the substance is the same and the church truly worships God in Spirit and in Truth, I think that is the important thing. And once we're in Heaven we won't need to debate dispensationalism v.s. covenant theology, calvinism v.s. arminianism, and substitutionary atonement v.s. christus victor. :)

I consider myself to be "non-denominational" but I have great appreciation for many of the great protestant traditions and even much of the history and tradition of the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

ranyhyn

13th January 2007, 09:51 PM

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with having several different denominations. It is probably a foregone conclusion that they are all trying to worship God in the manner in which they see as the best. Unfortunately those beliefs are held by humans. And that leads to trouble. Our emotions get in the way and if we disagree with someone we tend to get defensive when it comes to our fundamental beliefs regarding God.

People are very stubborn when it comes to others criticizing, whether it be constructive or not, their denomination. If I were a Baptist I wouldn't want someone calling me one of the "Frozen Chosen". By the same reasoning I wouldn't want someone going around town saying that I worshipped with those "Holy Rollers" down the road. It's quite amusing at times to see how grown men and women, including the elderly, acting like little children when they discuss those of other denominations.

I know that the small church I attend is made up of people from several different "denominations." Our pastor is from a Pentecostal background. We have several that are from the Baptist background. Others are Assembly of God, Church of Christ, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. We have all agreed to come together to worship the Lord as a congregation. Not as individuals. We all ascribe to the singular belief that Jesus is Lord and Savior and that His Word is the truth.

We were created and placed in the Garden so that we could commune with God. We were created so that we could have a personal relationship with God. That was thrown down the garbage chute and has been in disarray ever since. Our pastor regularly meets with pastors of other denominations at a monthly meeting. They all get together to discuss how the churches of the community can serve the community regardless of their individual beliefs.

It's time we stopped worrying about what happens behind closed doors and walls in other church buildings. The people are the church...and we need to try and get along and love one another which is what Jesus commanded that we do. It's not impossible but I'm not suggesting it's always easy either.

Here's to saying welcome to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ...