Polish National Catholic Church

[PadreEgan]

Am I not really sure if this is the right forum for the Polish National Catholic Church or not...it used to be anyway.

The Polish National Catholic Church, the Prime Bishop and the Bishops, will be consecrating four new Bishops at St. Stanislaus Cathedral in Scranton PA on Thursday, November 30th at 3 PM. This is going to be a huge celebration as we welcome our future leaders. I am very excited and proud of all the new Bishop-elects.

May God continue to bless the PNCC!

P.S. - I wanted to add a Wiki about the PNCC but it says I am not allowed, anyone know why?? thanks. :liturgy:

[AngCath]

your faith icon lists you as Catholic and so it may be because you are (as far as CF is concerned) a Roman Catholic.

[kiwimac]

The PNCC is not technically a part of the Old Catholic church either since it refuses to ordain women. But here is as good a place as any to post.

[No Swansong]

The PNCC is not technically a part of the Old Catholic church either since it refuses to ordain women. But here is as good a place as any to post.
Actually there are others of the Old Catholic tradition who do not ordain women. Just as there are Anglican provinces that do not ordain women.

[SumTinWong]

Yeah but I think the rule is even if you don't do it yourself, you at least do not ban it is that correct? I thought I hread that somewhere.

[kiwimac]

Yeah but I think the rule is even if you don't do it yourself, you at least do not ban it is that correct? I thought I hread that somewhere.
Indeed,

The PNCC has the dubious honour of being the first church removed from communion with the OCC for at least two hundred years.

Kiwimac

[PadreEgan]

double post, my bad

[PadreEgan]

personally, it is my opinion, that the PNCC is the only OCC body that has upheld the Decleration of the Union of Utrecht. So, like the those Orthodox Episcopal Parishes, the OCC left the PNCC not the other way around.


Peace. :liturgy:

[gtsecc]

personally, it is my opinion, that the PNCC is the only OCC body that has upheld the Decleration of the Union of Utrecht. So, like the those Orthodox Episcopal Parishes, the OCC left the PNCC not the other way around.


Peace. :liturgy:
I think you can make a very string case that the PNCC has stayed faithful to the Decleration of the Union of Utrecht.

[No Swansong]

personally, it is my opinion, that the PNCC is the only OCC body that has upheld the Decleration of the Union of Utrecht. So, like the those Orthodox Episcopal Parishes, the OCC left the PNCC not the other way around.


Peace. :liturgy:
I'm going to have to read it again but what exactly is is that the PNCC has upheld in this statement that the other bodies have not? (just so I know where to look)

[gtsecc]

Think of them as Roman Catholics who split after Vatican 1. Who is closer to the group that split - those who do or do not ordain women?

[SumTinWong]

Sounds like the Orthodox and RC. Trying to decide who left who.

[kiwimac]

I disagree,

IMO the current OCC is closer to the Spirit of the Utrecht Declaration than the PNCC.

[No Swansong]

I disagree,

IMO the current OCC is closer to the Spirit of the Utrecht Declaration than the PNCC.
Kiwi are you referring to the Church of Utrecht, or the several splinter groups which seem to abound,but which Utrecht does not recognize or have communion with? I am not calling into question their validity, simply pointing out that the two are not the same.

[Wigglesworth]

Of the numerous Old Catholic jurisdictions present in the United States, only the PNCC was ever a member of the Utrecht Union.

When the Utrecht Union was formed, I doubt that ordaining women or conferring the sacrament of marriage on homosexual couples was the norm among Utrecht Union churches.

The Declaration of Utrecht is available for your viewing pleasure in a sticky at the top of the forum.

:crossrc:

[PadreEgan]

if the Old Catholic Church Union of Utrecht is claiming to be a true Catholic body, then they would not ordain women and bless gay unions. When they decided to go off the deep end, they abandoned the Catholic faith.

[No Swansong]

Of the numerous Old Catholic jurisdictions present in the United States, only the PNCC was ever a member of the Utrecht Union.

When the Utrecht Union was formed, I doubt that ordaining women or conferring the sacrament of marriage on homosexual couples was the norm among Utrecht Union churches.

The Declaration of Utrecht is available for your viewing pleasure in a sticky at the top of the forum.

:crossrc:
Were you aware that there are a number of the Old Catholic jurisdictions who are now involved in discussion with Utrecht concerning an intercommunion agreement between ECUSA, the Old Catholics in Question, and Utrecht? One of these topics for discussion is the recognition of the U.S. Old Catholic groups as a recognized body of Old Catholics by Utrecht. I will have to look up the reference.

[kiwimac]

if the Old Catholic Church Union of Utrecht is claiming to be a true Catholic body, then they would not ordain women and bless gay unions. When they decided to go off the deep end, they abandoned the Catholic faith.
Heiferdust!

[No Swansong]

Heiferdust!
? For those of us who failed German I.

[kiwimac]

Think of cow waste product!

[PadreEgan]

think about it. The Eastern and Western Churches acknowledge and respect the Polish National Catholic Church as a valid Apostolic Faith, because, we have maintained the tradition and values of the early church fathers. I cannot think of any other Church that has such privileges.

[No Swansong]

Think of cow waste product!
Kiwi sometimes you make me want to strangle you, sometimes you make me laugh, sometimes you do both at the same time.


a great big LOL coming your way.:hug:

[Wigglesworth]

Were you aware that there are a number of the Old Catholic jurisdictions who are now involved in discussion with Utrecht concerning an intercommunion agreement between ECUSA, the Old Catholics in Question, and Utrecht? One of these topics for discussion is the recognition of the U.S. Old Catholic groups as a recognized body of Old Catholics by Utrecht. I will have to look up the reference.

I was not aware of this discussion, and I am not surprised by this discussion. There are many discussions going on all the time among many groups. The PNCC has been engaged in a dialogue with the RCC for years.

However, a reunification between the PNCC and the RCC is as unlikely as a reunification between the Orthodox and the RCC, or between the governments of Great Britain and the USA.

Talk between jurisdictions doesn't make anyone married, and it doesn't make anyone right.

:crossrc:

[gtsecc]

.

[gtsecc]

think about it. The Eastern and Western Churches acknowledge and respect the Polish National Catholic Church as a valid Apostolic Faith, because, we have maintained the tradition and values of the early church fathers. I cannot think of any other Church that has such privileges.
So, when I meet the Most Reverend Dmitri,Archbishop of Dallas and the South, and ask him if he allows his Priests to give communion to members of the PNCC, he will say yes?

[IowaLutheran]

So, when I meet the Most Reverend Dmitri,Archbishop of Dallas and the South, and ask him if he allows his Priests to give communion to members of the PNCC, he will say yes?

The answer will probably be "yes, but. . . . "

"Sacramental ministers of the Roman Catholic Church may admit Polish National Catholics to the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick, when they ask and are properly disposed to approach the sacraments with faith, repentance, and a firm purpose of amendment (conditions which all Christians must fulfillin approaching the sacraments). No additional restrictions apply. The additional restrictions which do apply to Protestants (such as serious need of the sacraments and the inability to receive them from their own ministers, cf. canon 844.4) do not apply in these cases. It can safely be presumed that Polish National Catholics hold a faith in these three sacraments in harmony with the faith held by Roman Catholics, and ought not be questioned on this.
While the law of the Roman Catholic Church (canon 844.3) makes generous provisions, it should still be kept in mind that these cases are seen as exceptional, not as the norm. Normally Polish National Catholics, it is expected, will seek the sacraments from their own bishops and priests, and only on certain occasions approach Roman Catholic sacramental ministers."

http://www.rcab.org/EandI/polishNationalCatholics.html

[No Swansong]

I was not aware of this discussion, and I am not surprised by this discussion. There are many discussions going on all the time among many groups. The PNCC has been engaged in a dialogue with the RCC for years.

However, a reunification between the PNCC and the RCC is as unlikely as a reunification between the Orthodox and the RCC, or between the governments of Great Britain and the USA.

Talk between jurisdictions doesn't make anyone married, and it doesn't make anyone right.

:crossrc:
Oh agreed! But I do think that it is possible that the OC's of Utrecht will recognize as valid some if not most of the OC groups in the U.S. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will be part of Utrecht, but that Utrecht recognizes that they are legitimately Old Catholic.

In any case I continue to pray for unity.

[No Swansong]

So, when I meet the Most Reverend Dmitri,Archbishop of Dallas and the South, and ask him if he allows his Priests to give communion to members of the PNCC, he will say yes?
Actually Archbishop Dmitry is not Roman Catholic he is OCA which (as Glen knows) is Russian Orthodox historically. While I would hope that he would say yes, I seriously doubt it.

[gtsecc]

The answer will probably be "yes, but. . . . "

"Sacramental ministers of the Roman Catholic Church ...
+Dmitri is OCA. ;)

[IowaLutheran]

+Dmitri is OCA. ;)

Sorry, I assumed he was RC! :doh: His name alone should have made me figure out he is Orthodox.

In that case, then I am sure the answer is "no", as I am not aware of any circumstances when the EO allow non-EO to communion. Maybe there is a deathbed provision, like the Rcs have for Protestants.

[kiwimac]

Kiwi sometimes you make me want to strangle you, sometimes you make me laugh, sometimes you do both at the same time.


a great big LOL coming your way.:hug:
Strangely enough, my wife says exactly the same thing!

Go Figure! :D