Are we losing focus, or right on point?

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Obviously, the ELCA is charged by other lutherans as not Lutheran, at "doctrinally instable" at best.

At a conference at the Concordia Seminary in St. Louis, one point made by Dr. Robert Benne, a member of the ELCA mind you, was that the ELCA is primarily focused on social ethics, so much that it is ignoring its doctrinal standards and is focusing so much on this "crusade" if I may, that it is sliding more and more into simply Liberal Protestantism, and is beginning to lack its theological uniqueness.

While I think that as both a Lutheran and a Christian, social concern is absolutely important and a vocational calling, Benne may have a point. This is not the first time I have heard this discussion and it has come not from our outside critics but from within. It has attributed to the loss of some of our great theologians. Our synnod itself seems at the brink of split/battle/collapse with some of the current controversies regarding homosexuality.

So what do you think? Are we losing our identity in this direction where our focuses seem to be on unification and ethics (again, I am not saying they are in themselves bad, but perhaps our stress or mode or direction within them is maybe problematic)? Or are we staying the course? Are we true Lutherans, does our great heritage stand? Is there something we could be doing better?

Grace and peace be with you brothers and sisters in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

[paladin_carvin]

I think this concept of not ostricising homosexuals, not treating them as of need of 'special fixing', but equal, wanted members of the church, where there is no need to hide or fear is EXACTLY what every church should be doing. It is in the very vein of Luther to fight the wrongs in the church, no matter how unpopular it is with the current church body and church leaders.

Listen- I know for a fact that what ELCA is doing is right. I will tell you for a fact 'Come together faithfully' was a key to my return to faith in Christ. I would not be a Christian without it, much less a Lutheran, much less an ELCA member.

[mnphysicist]

Hmmm, normally I just jump in and out, but this is something I was going to blog on anyhow, and being I can't blog this on my CF blog, posting it here seems a good solution.

I can see where Benne is coming from. The direction the ELCA has chosen as a counter to pietism (http://www.ltsp.edu/news/2004-2005/0504lindberg.pdf), amongst other issues made a lot of sense 18 years ago, although I happened to disagree at the time. Had we went down that path, I think we would have been in a world of hurt, much more so than where we are today.

That being said, I do worry if perhaps we are going to far. Dennis Biefeldt has a stern warning (http://www.holytrinitynewrochelle.org/DennisBielfeldtsResponse.html) that yes indeed we are. Within his response, he says "The truth is that it takes a lot of theological input to keep this paradoxical, unstable theological tradition in existence." I do happen to agree with him in that regard, yet I don't really see us marginalizing theology, at least not as we did 18 years ago. I think we are starting to correct, at least from the top.

The difficulty however, is the cycle time from seminary to parish, and secondly what I consider an assumption of too much theological prowness on the part of the average parishoner today. If we take a look at Journey Together Faithfully, Part Two: The Church and Homosexuality (http://www.elca.org/faithfuljourney/resources/study02.html) talk about a way to freak out your congregation. I can only imagine the trouble a newbie pastor might get into.

It presents no conclusions, part of it no doubt to minimize controversy, yet its like a 10000 foot view of a mutltiude of positions, and leaves the average parishoner without the ability to dig into the theological arguments and discussions that led to the wide variety of positions on this issue. Now, had the theological base been in place, such a study might have proved a wondeful tool. Otoh, perhaps it will bring a change, as it will force congregations and parishoners to work through these conflicts, and as I see it, it is going to force a return to a much needed solid theological foundation.

Unfortunately, in the meantime, no doubt there will be casualties along the way. We've already had an exodus of theologians (http://www.holytrinitynewrochelle.org/OpenlettertoBishopHansonFromBraaten.html), which is most unfortunate, as these are the folks that we really need in the near future.

So to answer the question, are we loosing our direction. I don't think so, I think we are correcting some errors of the past. It is a pendulum, and while we may well have swung too far in the recent past, I think things are starting to correct. What obscures this of course are hot button issues and momentum, as contrasted with the subtle changes of correction that are starting to occur at the top.

[KagomeShuko]

It certainly hurts when others say that the ELCA is not Lutheran, and yet, what is Lutheran but a name or a title, right?

I think the ELCA is definitely Lutheran, definitely reforming, and definitely doing things correctly.

The Bible is full of scriptures about accepting others, loving neighbors, not judging others, welcoming others in Christ - and the ELCA is doing that.

However, what are we being told by the other synods? We are not "Lutheran" because we ARE reforming and accepting. . .because we want the news of the GOSPEL to spread.

While they are out there saying things like, "Because the ELCA does this or this or this (communion, homosexuality, etc.) they are not Lutherans!

Well, they can turn to those writings of Luther and the Book of Concord and act as though they are the final say on all Biblical things or they can enlighten themselves on all kinds of findings and actually read the Bible about NOT judging rather than interpreting those verses as judging people in the light of what they think is the correct way of believing and then if they meet those certain criteria they don't need to judge them on other things. . .

I'm happy to be a member of the ELCA and I am a member of the ELCA because it best fits my beliefs. If it didn't, I wouldn't be there. . .and I think that goes for others who have the same beliefs as I do.

I think because we are Lutheran, we are willing to reform. . .

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

It certainly hurts when others say that the ELCA is not Lutheran, and yet, what is Lutheran but a name or a title, right?

I think the ELCA is definitely Lutheran, definitely reforming, and definitely doing things correctly.

The Bible is full of scriptures about accepting others, loving neighbors, not judging others, welcoming others in Christ - and the ELCA is doing that.

However, what are we being told by the other synods? We are not "Lutheran" because we ARE reforming and accepting. . .because we want the news of the GOSPEL to spread.

While they are out there saying things like, "Because the ELCA does this or this or this (communion, homosexuality, etc.) they are not Lutherans!

Well, they can turn to those writings of Luther and the Book of Concord and act as though they are the final say on all Biblical things or they can enlighten themselves on all kinds of findings and actually read the Bible about NOT judging rather than interpreting those verses as judging people in the light of what they think is the correct way of believing and then if they meet those certain criteria they don't need to judge them on other things. . .

I'm happy to be a member of the ELCA and I am a member of the ELCA because it best fits my beliefs. If it didn't, I wouldn't be there. . .and I think that goes for others who have the same beliefs as I do.

I think because we are Lutheran, we are willing to reform. . .
Again, the point of this thread is that the accusations against the ELCA are now starting to be seen and spoken from internally. As I noted as an example, Robert Benne, but he is certainly not the only one.
I am not saying that any one stance of the ELCA is completely wrong (though some like Benne would) be it communion, homosexuality, whatever. But the question is two-fold, and whether you want to focus it on one point or more broadly as I am I guess is up to you but I am really trying to look broadly. The first question is our direction. A direction that seems to be centering more on ethics than on doctrine (according to some). You make a good point regarding though how much we should focus on doctrine, especially when we consider what to do when the Lutheran Confessions don't seem to have a stance or view regarding a topic in the contemporary society.
But the second issue which is where I am largely concerned is whether our mode of direction or the way we are moving in that direction is destroying our Lutheran Identity. This is where the question of doctrine becomes really important. Because to a growing number of people who are observing the ELCA (again, I'm also speaking of internal viewing) we are as Benne says "sliding into liberal protestantism". You said that you love the ELCA and are a part of it because it best fits your views, what a lot of people are saying is that what makes us unique, that strong theological and liturgical heritage is disappearing and soon one might have a hard time seeing the difference between ELCA and some other churches, to which what you have just said about the ELCA you could've as easily said somewhere else or you couldn't say it about the ELCA.
Is our Lutheran Theology following us as we move and grow and change. If it is, then it does two things for us: first, it maintains that uniqueness that many people are afraid we might lose. Second, it supports it, and defends it. Then we not only stand true to the Lutheran Confessions but we find a graeter value to them as a defense and a proper understanding of our faith. And we feel more comfortable discussing and engaging them.
If however, we lose it [doctrine and lutheran theology] or leave it behind. Here are some dangers; we slip into identity crisis. Thomas Bokenkotter when describing the peril that many catholics suffered following Vatican II in his book "Concise History of the Catholic Church" is alluding to what we too might suffer. He notes that the catholic identity was "we are not them [he was primarily refering to protestants]" but Vatican II affected that, and there was radical change and struggle to identify what it meant to be catholic because of both the practical and theological changes that the second vatican council brought. If our identity is Lutheran, and we leave that behind we will struggle and go through perhaps a crisis in what it means to be ELCA. When that happens one suffers in both membership and the risk openning the doors to sinful doctrines (that's not to say it wouldn't open the doors to proper ones though). But if when we are confirmed or become members we say we believe in the doctrine of the Lutheran church, then I think that means we find some sort of meaning in it that is dangerous to abandon. For clergy who vow to uphold lutheran theology it could become a contradiction. These points were some of the reasons so many Lutherans were against the "joint document on justification" with the catholic church. It wasn't so much ecumenism as it was mode of ecumenism; to them the central doctrine of Lutheranism was at stake and how important it was not to delude or ignore the importance of that doctrine. Where would we be without justification by faith alone? So when we asses the issue, its not just should we go in a certain direction (and perhaps my title to the thread and my wording made that not quite as clear) but it is also the mode. Are we losing who in fact we say we are? Are we slightly losing it, or by leaps and bounds?
And although I am ELCA and not LCMS or WELS for a reason, we shouldn't simply ignore their stances or directions because we dub them "conservative" we should see if they offer any value to our direction and how they can improve our direction. It doesn't mean we have to take the same stance, just examine it and hear it in light of our shared heritage. Because their concerns are now becoming more and more concerns from within our ranks.
To me this question is larger than gay or straight, ecumenical talks, or whatever. It is the broad view that the ELCA has taken on its role in the world and the way in which we execute that view. Is it done as rich (in theology that is) Lutherans or Liberal Protestants? Or both? Can we be both? The beauty of the ELCA is we can hear different views, points, sides, and even learn from different traditions, synnods, and denominations. But we should do it in light of who we are and what we can offer in both doctrinal and ethical theology.
Thanks so far for your points, I hope to hear from more of you! May the peace of the Lord be with you always!

[stumpjumper]

One of the main issues also is ELCA ecclesiological layout (if that't the right word)... Most of the other Lutheran synods in the US are not organized as teh ELCA is with regional synods and hierarchical governance...

Having been in various ELCA Churches throughout my life, I would say that some are not very different from say a UCC Church and others are clearly Liturgically Lutheran...

I really think at the Parish level it depends upon one's congregation. At the seminary level, I might agree that the focus is more on social justice than theological soundness... Saying this knowing a fellow parishioner who works at the Philly synod and has recently entered seminary...

[RegularGuy]

I was thinking these things through a few months ago, and my train of thought went something like this:

1. If I were looking for a church to join right now, I would not join a denomination that refused to ordain women. The ELCA fought that battle. My understanding of Scripture, God, the Gospel and the world is such that I think it is fundamentally unjust to deny ordination to a person because they lack a Y chromosome. The decision to ordain women was made at a time when social equality for women was the bleeding edge in both our culture and our church.

2. My understanding of Scripture, God, the Gospel, and the world also leads me to the conclusion that homosexuals should be afforded the opportunity to live in committed relationships with all the legal rights, responsibilities and protections of heterosexual marriage. I think that the church should not only condone and bless but even encourage such relationships. What’s more, I think that being gay and living in a committed relationship should not be an impediment to ordination. These are my personal conclusions. I could go into detailed arguments for these views, but for now, let’s just note that this is what I believe, and that I know others disagree. Social equality for homosexuals is the bleeding edge of both our culture and our church today.

3. Considering the above, if I were looking for a church to join right now, I would join a church that blessed homosexual unions and ordained homosexual persons living in committed relationships. (That’s pretty much the UCC as far as I can tell.)

4. And considering all of that, I had to ask myself the question, “Why stay in the ELCA?” The answer was both simple and surprising. I will stay in the ELCA because we have good theology. We know about Law and Gospel. We love the Sacraments. We have an emphasis upon the grace of God that is not found in other denominations. In other words, we are not just another liberal protestant denomination. I love my UCC brothers and sisters and bless them for their stance on homosexuality, but I could not be a member of that denomination. I will stay in the ELCA and work toward the goal of having my church bless same-sex unions and ordain gays in committed relationships.

5. If I’m not going to leave the ELCA, then I should not expect those who disagree with me to do so, either. I should expect them to stay and work for their position, just as I do. That's not easy, but, I would rather be a member of a denomination which permits disagreement and encourages debate, where together people of good faith and differing opinion can seek the truth, than a church that demands uniformity of opinion.

6. Lutheranism is a reforming movement. Reforming is a difficult and paradoxical business. It means returning, again and again, to the core of our faith (justification by grace) and calling the whole Church to come with us. But it also means constantly, questingly moving forward, especially in matters of social justice. To be a part of a reforming church is to be pulled both backward to Luther and to Paul and to Jesus, and, at the same time, to be driven forward by the Holy Spirit into the future that God is shaping.

7. Not so much a point as a footnote. I know Bob Benne. He was one of my faculty advisors back in the day. I disagree with much of what he says and does, but I respect him. He is one of those voices that calls us back to our roots. My other faculty advisor was Jay Rochelle who has swum the Bosphorus. I could not follow Jay across that wild sea, but I can understand his going, and I think that we who stay behind should see his actions as prophetic. I also studied theology with Carl Braaten, a brilliant man with a clear understanding of confessional theology. Carl is the one who, I think, first warned that the ELCA is in danger of becoming another liberal protestant denomination. We need to heed Carl’s clarion voice as we move forward in social and ecumenical issues. I don’t think we have sold our Lutheran soul, yet, and it is because of voices like those of Bob Benne, Jay Rochelle and Carl Braaten that we have not.

8. I have sometimes been known to say “We’re Lutherans. Show us any fence and we’ll straddle it!” It is uncomfortable to be part of a reforming movement, drawn by two impulses, evangelical and catholic, iustus et peccator, always drawn back to the gospel of grace and pushed forward to call for social justice. But I believe that this is where God calls us to be. We are right on task.

9. Another footnote: The ELCA may well split over the questions of ecumenism (esp. with the Episcopalians) and homosexuality. In some ways divisions in our denomination have been inevitable from the start. When the ELCA was formed, there were not enough differences to keep us apart. Now there may not be enough commonalities to keep us together. There were some issues that were not dealt with sufficiently when the denomination was constituted. Though I am saddened at the thought of splinter groups leaving the ELCA, I’m not overly concerned to keep them in the fold, either. It shouldn’t bother us. We’re Lutherans. We invented church splits.

10. To those other Lutherans who pick at the speck in the eye of the ELCA, I say, tend to the log in your own eye.