Jerusalem gay pride parade...gets ugly.

[ContraMundum]

The parade may still be stopped! Praise God!

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061102/D8L53KG00.html

Best quote in the article: "No one would dream of having this march in Vatican City,"

But, the gays have now attacked a synagogue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6110686.stm

"Windows in the synagogue were smashed and the walls were painted with the slogan: "If we can't march in Jerusalem you won't walk in Tel Aviv".

[RadixLecti]

sha-alu shalom yerushalaim

[ContraMundum]

To me it's about where it's being held and when (The Holy City and on the anniversary of Kristal Nacht). I don't think I care about who and why. There's plenty of pride parades and all you have to do is ignore them- but when they are proposing one in Jerusalem, it's too insulting to religious people.

[john23237]

Did anyone even take the time to read the articles posted? The gay leadership clearly condemned the damage done to the synagogue. Have the ultra Orthodox condemned their acts of violence against gays? How can anyone be so blind. Many years ago there was an event referred to as the "night of the broken glass". The Nazis so twisted the truth as to imply that the Jews were themselves responsible for creating the atmosphere that caused the violence against them. It would appear that the Ultra Orthodox have developed the mindset of their former oppressors. Pathetic.
'

[john23237]

it's too insulting to religious people.

And the statements and actions of the Ultra Conservatives are not insulting to gay Jews and Christians?

[ContraMundum]

I know what you're saying John, but I would suggest that the unruly elements within the ultra-Orthodox will be rebuked by their leadership as well, but the media would never report that.

To my mind, the pride parade organisers should be more considerate of a long-standing place within many religious traditions of the sanctity of Jerusalem. It comes across as selfish to force the issue when there are plenty of alternative places to march. It's a confrontational attitude for them to take, and of course there will always be people ready to take up the challenge with more agression in turn.

Not to mention, it's the anniversary of Kristal Nacht. Not good. As I mentioned in another thread, there are people alive today that have literally fought for Jerusalem to remain the holy city, as well a Shoah survivors who see Jerusalem as their haven from the angry hostile world.

[Groce]

The Nazis so twisted the truth as to imply that the Jews were themselves responsible for creating the atmosphere that caused the violence against them. It would appear that the Ultra Orthodox have developed the mindset of their former oppressors. Pathetic. '

Whats pathetic is comparing Orthodox Jews to Nazis. That should make you sick. I guess that standing for orthodox beliefs is similar to ethnic cleansing.

[Groce]

And the statements and actions of the Ultra Conservatives are not insulting to gay Jews and Christians?

Most people do get offended when they are told that their life style is sin, so I guess you point makes since. But the fact that gays who claim to not be in a life style of sin insults our the fundamental elements of both Judeo and Christian beliefs.

[john23237]

Whats pathetic is comparing Orthodox Jews to Nazis. That should make you sick. I guess that standing for orthodox beliefs is similar to ethnic cleansing.

The point is that the tactic being used by the Ultra Orthodox is the same the Nazi propaganda used against the Jews concerning Kristal Nacht and you know it and, yes, that is pathetic.

[john23237]

Most people do get offended when they are told that their life style is sin, so I guess you point makes since. But the fact that gays who claim to not be in a life style of sin insults our the fundamental elements of both Judeo and Christian beliefs.

Fundamentalist elements, perhaps. Or perhaps some are insulted by the fact that gay Christians even exist. Either way, we are not about to leave the church. Can the same be said of the right wing?

[john23237]

I know what you're saying John, but I would suggest that the unruly elements within the ultra-Orthodox will be rebuked by their leadership as well, but the media would never report that.

To my mind, the pride parade organisers should be more considerate of a long-standing place within many religious traditions of the sanctity of Jerusalem. It comes across as selfish to force the issue when there are plenty of alternative places to march. It's a confrontational attitude for them to take, and of course there will always be people ready to take up the challenge with more agression in turn.

Not to mention, it's the anniversary of Kristal Nacht. Not good. As I mentioned in another thread, there are people alive today that have literally fought for Jerusalem to remain the holy city, as well a Shoah survivors who see Jerusalem as their haven from the angry hostile world.

Tell me something my friend, if the event were to consist of only gay religious organizations and none secular, would you feel the same way?

[ContraMundum]

Tell me something my friend, if the event were to consist of only gay religious organizations and none secular, would you feel the same way?
Well, to be honest, John, I guess I would feel the same way. I don't think anyone should be marching through Jerusalem other than to affirm and support what Jerusalem has always been about. This would include right-wing evangelicals- I wouldn't want them marching around there either.

[Tetzel]

Contra, I fail to understand the idea that Jerusalem has always been about something.

[Finella]

I donno, a group of oppressed people marching in a place that represents some kind of sacred ideals...

Makes me think of MLK's march on Washington.

[Groce]

I donno, a group of oppressed people marching in a place that represents some kind of sacred ideals...

Makes me think of MLK's march on Washington.

NO. Washington is not sacred.

[Finella]

NO. Washington is not sacred.
"sacred" of a kind. The sacredness of American ideals, yadda yadda.

I know what you mean, but the choice of a meaningful (sacred, symbolic) location for a march of oppressed group of people is hardly a new phenomenon.

[john23237]

Conservatives seem so quick to ignore their own values regarding freedom and democracy when it suits their agenda, how are we to believe they really hold anything truly sacred? The Minister of Education, Yuli Tamir, made this statement in the Jerusalem Post today. "Threats of violence cannot be allowed to close mouths in a democratic country. Giving in to violence means we did not learn anything... The debate today centers around whether it is permissible in a democratic country to cause people to not march by issuing threats". One would think that any group that truly held the concepts of democracy dear would not have to be told this.