And with thy spirit

[DeoJuvante]

OK, I've heard all the arguments for using 'and with thy spirit' instead of 'and also with you' but the question that keeps recurring in my mind is:

What does it mean?

In response to 'the Lord be with you', clearly 'and also with you' means, well, 'the Lord be with you'. But what about 'and with thy spirit'? The Lord be with your spirit??? What does that mean? What is this 'spirit'? Is it the same as a soul? Do we then not ask that the Lord be with our priests just with their spirits (whatever that means)? Why does the priest not pray that the Lord be with our spirits (again, whatever that means)?

Can someone please explain this to me? (By the way, I'm asking for an explanation, not a translation; 'et cum spiritu tuo' and 'et avec ton esprit', et cetera are no clearer than the English.

[SirTimothy]

Frankly, I prefer "The Lord is here/His Spirit is with us" to any variant on "The Lord be with you/And Also with you/The Lord be with you/And with thy Spirit"

Tim

[RedneckAnglican]

I don't know...I have forwarded it to my Priest...when he gets back to me I'll post it...

[karen freeinchristman]

OK, I've heard all the arguments for using 'and with thy spirit' instead of 'and also with you' but the question that keeps recurring in my mind is:

What does it mean?

In response to 'the Lord be with you', clearly 'and also with you' means, well, 'the Lord be with you'. But what about 'and with thy spirit'? The Lord be with your spirit??? What does that mean? What is this 'spirit'? Is it the same as a soul? Do we then not ask that the Lord be with our priests just with their spirits (whatever that means)? Why does the priest not pray that the Lord be with our spirits (again, whatever that means)?

Can someone please explain this to me? (By the way, I'm asking for an explanation, not a translation; 'et cum spiritu tuo' and 'et avec ton esprit', et cetera are no clearer than the English.

I think that is a great question! I was wondering the very same thing when this subject came up in that other thread!

[RedneckAnglican]

this is what I got frm my Priest...or more accurately his Litugy instructor from seminary...

The liturgical term for this is the “recurring salutation” (greeting) and is the ancient form of entering into prayer in agreement, per St. Matt 18:19. As with the overwhelming majority of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, this prayer is taken directly from Canon Scripture:

Ruth 2:4 (King James Version)
4And, behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem, and said unto the reapers, The LORD be with you. And they answered him, The LORD bless thee.
2 St. Timothy 4:22 (King James Version)
22The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

In this, we are inviting the Lord’s presence and they are asking the Lord to be with the minister’s spirit—that part of us that is most tangent and congruent with God Himself. Yes, we see the spirit separately from the soul—in short, taking a Trichotomous view of mankind—body, soul (mind/emotions—the will) and the spirit—the mystical portion of mankind that God Himself breathed into us—our pneuma. This very ancient reply to the salutation invokes the minister’s spirit to be preeminent in his prayers, that being the part of his being most congruent with God’s Spirit, as described in Romans 8:16. By praying the Lord be with the minister’s spirit, we are also echoing St. Paul’s injunction to walk after the Spirit—and to, therefore be led by God. In my mind, it is a very spiritual and scriptural greeting and reply and cannot be objected to on Scriptural grounds.

The minister has already asked the Lord to be with them—but, in this case, with their entire persons, as he desires God to minister to them, body, soul and spirit, meeting needs in all three. Their reply is for him to speak a spirit-inhabited and led prayer on their behalf.

The salutation is, at least in part, older than Christianity itself and has been the custom of the Church Militant for millennia. Contemporary liturgy is, in my opinion, reflective of a desire for convenience—making it easier. For me, I never wanted an easy coach or instructor for things that mattered. The best are the tough ones. Same with my devotions.

Hope this answers your question.

Grace and peace,

Chip+
The Rev. CB "Chip" Harper

[Simon_Templar]

To be honest, I was unaware that there was a big issue with this :)

I don't see a significant difference between the two...

[karen freeinchristman]

I quite liked Chip's explanation, but like most things these days, if it takes a really indepth explanation is it really helpful for the congregation? Most people wouldn't take the time to consider the difference. Taking these things into account, I think that saying either form is fine. It's the heart that counts, anyway.