Is God Old or is he New

[SFC]

Should our approach to the Father be though a traditional understanding or is there more? If so whos tradition and why?

[CrazyforYeshua]

I'm not sure what you mean by approach, but there is only 1 tradition to come to the Father at all-His.

1Jo 4:9 In this the love of God was revealed in us, because God sent His only begotten Son into the world that we might live through Him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[SFC]

I'm not sure what you mean by approach, but there is only 1 tradition to come to the Father at all-His.

1Jo 4:9 In this the love of God was revealed in us, because God sent His only begotten Son into the world that we might live through Him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

What I am trying to say like the Jews in Jesus day men our looking back for truth not forward. They look back at their doctrine, dogmas and traditions . They look back at certain men of God from Luther, Wesley and Billy Sunday.

Something seems totally out of place spiritually speaking in that tradition seems to be the way not revelation.

[Wisdom's Child]

Tradition?

Matthew 13: 34-35
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Luke 6: 46-48
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

1 Corinthians 3: 9-13
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because itshall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.The very rock which was formed from the beginning upon which a strong foundation is laid, which assures us that the building which we labor on will stand the test of time.

If we do not "dig" at the dirt of Tradition to expose that solid stone, then we are building upon shifting sands, and our foundation will fail.

[SFC]

Tradition?

The very rock which was formed from the beginning upon which a strong foundation is laid, which assures us that the building which we labor on will stand the test of time.

If we do not "dig" at the dirt of Tradition to expose that solid stone, then we are building upon shifting sands, and our foundation will fail.
What do you mean the dirt of tradition?

[Forealzchola]

Should our approach to the Father be though a traditional understanding or is there more? If so whos tradition and why?
God is the same and never changing. God bless

[SFC]

God is the same and never changing. God bless
I agree; but should not our understanding should be changing. God is not old; nor is He is new He is eternal. Tradition makes you look back for truth; revelation makes you seek for truth. Where would the world/church be today if all we had was tradition. A truly spiritual walk seeks asks and knocks.

[beehoney]

I agree; but should not our understanding should be changing. God is not old; nor is He is new He is eternal. Tradition makes you look back for truth; revelation makes you seek for truth. Where would the world/church be today if all we had was tradition. A truly spiritual walk seeks asks and knocks.
Yes, I agree. What you have described as traditional understanding can teach us so much and no more. There is much to learn from approaching the Lord directly. He can and will reveal himself to you.

[linssue55]

Should our approach to the Father be though a traditional understanding or is there more? If so whos tradition and why?

The trinity has "ALWAYS" been alive. There NEVER was a time when they weren't alive.

Don't ponder on this, for our puny minds are incapable of understanding the infinite, but one day we will understand all. Move on to growing in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and savior.

[Forealzchola]

I agree; but should not our understanding should be changing. God is not old; nor is He is new He is eternal. Tradition makes you look back for truth; revelation makes you seek for truth. Where would the world/church be today if all we had was tradition. A truly spiritual walk seeks asks and knocks.
you arent supposed to follow tradition ..but God and His word...there a difference. God bless

[Forealzchola]

I agree; but should not our understanding should be changing. God is not old; nor is He is new He is eternal. Tradition makes you look back for truth; revelation makes you seek for truth. Where would the world/church be today if all we had was tradition. A truly spiritual walk seeks asks and knocks.
you arent supposed to follow tradition ..but God and His word...theres a difference. God bless

[SFC]

The trinity has "ALWAYS" been alive. There NEVER was a time when they weren't alive.

Don't ponder on this, for our puny minds are incapable of understanding the infinite, but one day we will understand all. Move on to growing in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and savior.



This is what I am speaking of; Gpd's pepple believe traditipn instead of seeking asking and knocking.

Bible declares God is ONE; not three in one and especially not three God’s.

I agree that something’s in the Bible are beyond human understanding and when it comes to the Mystery of the Father and the Son; I cannot and will not label it. That is why I am not a Trinitarian.

The word Trinity is not a scriptural term as well the scriptures declare God is one.

Then you take the word Godhead which by looking at the Greek is a mistranslation.

God Head Strong’s 2304 theios (thi'-os); from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): 2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:

This speaks of divinity not anything to do with Godhead.

Also the word person has everything to do with a carnal, human person; but nothing to do with God who is not a person but a spirit. The word person is a religious term and cannot be found in scripture when it comes to this subject which I am not sure I can label.

This does not rule out that God as a spirit can manifested Himself any way He wants to; be it The Spirit of Truth, Jesus in the Flesh; or even a burning bush.

[Nadiine]

This is what I am speaking of; Gpd's pepple believe traditipn instead of seeking asking and knocking.

Bible declares God is ONE; not three in one and especially not three God’s.

I agree that something’s in the Bible are beyond human understanding and when it comes to the Mystery of the Father and the Son; I cannot and will not label it. That is why I am not a Trinitarian.



Why Jesus is God :
http://www.christianforums.com/t3794358-is-jesus-god.html

THE TRINITY IS NOT NEW, it has always been the Christian view.
So, you basically reject a Trinity because it is not written out in the exact format you demand?:confused:

JESUS IS CALLED GOD indirectly & directly all thruout the Bible:
Hbr 1:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Hbr/Hbr001.html#8) But unto the Son [the Father saith], Thy throne, O God, for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

[B]Isa 44:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa044.html#6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

BOTH His God/Man natures are taught clearly. The "Trinity" is 'labeled' by man only as a simple identifiable TERM of the taught principle.
The word trinity doesn't have to appear in scripture to be true!

On the contrary, the word "theocracy" isn't used, yet it's a Theocracy that Israel was under.
The term "Calvanism" defines a viewpoint of biblical teachings on God's method of salvation based on God choosing us; it's not making "new truth claims" as if to CREATE something NEW. These Terms don't CREATE new truth, they DEFINE a position from a taught concept.

The minute He's called God, it automatically begs the question of a (Godhead) because the Bible teaches there is only ONE TRUE GOD. (did you know that the Hebrew word "Elohim" for God is PLURAL?).
"Let US make man in OUR own image"... (man is only made in God's image - not angels).

I'm at least glad that you allow the Bible to hold "mystery" and complexity about God that we may never fully grasp. Complexity never negates the truth of God -
& it doesn't mean we can't know BASIC TRUTH..

Salvation doesn't rely on knowing all the deep intricacies of HOW or why things are --ie. how or why the law of death for sin exists:scratch: ... BUT WE MUST ACCEPT WE ARE SINNERS, & BELIEVE THAT CHRIST CAME, DIED AND ROSE AGAIN for our remission of sin (for starters).

If the Bible says "Jesus is God" just once, then that is a [I]simple fact we must accept on it's face.:bow:
Even if we can't figure out HOW it fits or works yet. It's then our duty & obligation to work to RENDER THAT SIMPLE FACT with the remaining complex details of HOW 3 can be ONE.

We don't remove or ignore verses to suit our limited understanding. HE teaches us, we do not stick Him in a box that we create in our limited capacity. The same Bible that calls Him One God, is the SAME BIBLE that calls Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit, God.:idea:
(I'd like to offer the husband & wife principle: 2 become 1. Male holds position of authority over her, yet both are CO-EQUAL in being. Same as Father & Son; God has order: Father is head yet both are CO-Equal AS God).

**We CAN accept 2+2= 4... and it's ON those basic mathmatical principles of simple addition/subtraction/multiplication/division, that we get our more ELABORATE AND COMPLEX equasions that form very complex inventions!

The BASE IS SIMPLE and understandable, it's from there, we grow into the complex formulations. Once you accept the SIMPLE fact of Jesus and the Spirit being called "GOD", the rest is mere deduction when given all the other clarifications thruout the Bible.
1Cr 3:2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr003.html#2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
Hbr 5:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Hbr/Hbr005.html#12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Do we start our education in Kindergarten and REMAIN THERE well into our 30's?
We're called to ADVANCE and grow in spiritual wisdom/education.
It's BY growing into the more complex that we learn MORE of God's deeper truths.

The Trinity comes about from those who've studied the Bible in depth, and have come to the conclusion that this is the ONLY identification of God that renders the Bible in full Agreement with itself. Otherwise, it becomes an unreliable self-refuting mess which is then unable to teach 1 truth of God.

[linssue55]

Bible declares God is ONE; not three in one and especially not three God’s.



Your half right, ONE in ESSENCE, but THREE in PERSONALITY. From one of the first verses in Genesis, it speaks of MORE THEN ONE PERSON......."Let's make man in "OUR" image." Can't get much clearer than that.


The Father planned it; the Son executed it; the Spirit revealed it. The Father, the Son and the Spirit are three different persons although they have the same essence. But there is also a second word—LORD, which we simply translate Jehovah. Jehovah is in the singular and it always refers only to one person—sometimes to the Father, sometimes to the Son, and sometimes to the Holy Spirit. Elohim is a plural word used here because all three members of the Trinity were involved in the creation. The phrase “in the beginning,” bereshith, means that time actually began when creation began.

God the Father Planned it......
God the Son Created it.......
God the Holy Spirit restored/revealed it........

One in Essence, Yet 3 seperate persons............

1. Principles; (Points 1 & 2).
....A. God is One in essence; (Jn 10:30).
....B. All the attributes of essence are resident in God, but all may not be manifest at one time.
.......(1) Certain situations in life summon certain charactaristics.
.......(2) Illustration of light; all colors are present in any ray of light, but are only be visible under
...........cetrain conditions of relection and refraction.

2. Examples of Divine essence;
....A. Salvation; Love and Eternal Life are manifest.
....B. Faithfulness; Immutability and Love are manifest.
....C. God's Plan; Omniscience and sovereignty are manifest.
....D. God's Will; sovereignty is manifest.
....E. Judgement; Justice and Righteousness are manifest.


........Omniscience: all knowing.
........Omnipotence: all power.
........Omnipresence: infinite presence.
........Sovereignty: Supreme Being of the Universe.
........Love: infinite capacity for affection, esteem, respect, and pleasure of same.
........Eternal Life: timeless existence without beginning or end.
........Righteousness: intrinsic Good, intergrity, honor, uprightness..
........Justice: absolute fairness, equity, judgement.
........Immutablilty: Unchanging, "not subject to change or variation in quality or nature".
........Veracity: Truth.

3. Omniscience:
....A. God is all-knowing; (1Sam 2:3, Job 26:6, 31:4, 34:21, 37:16, 42:2b; Psa 139:1-6,12,
.......147:4; Jer 16:17, Ezek 11:5, Matt 10:19,30; Heb 4:13).
....B. Infinite in wisdom and understanding; (1Sam 16:7, Psa 44:21, 147:5b; Prov 3:19,
.......5:21, 17:3; Isa 40:13,14; Jer 17:10, 51:15; Nah 1:7, Matt 6:8, Rom 8:27, 11:33; 1Jn 3:20)
....C. Knowing the end from the beginning (foreknowledge); (Isa 41:26, 42:9, 43:9, 46:10;
.......Acts 2:23, 15:8; 1Pet 1:2a)
....D. The Deity of Jesus Christ knew all things, and all men; (Matt 9:4, John 2:24,
........19:28, 21:17)
....E. Application to the believer; (Job 23:10, Matt 6:31,32; Jn 13:7, Rom 8:28, Col 1:10,
.......Jas 1:5, 3:17)

4. Omnipresence:
....A. God is ever-present, limited by neither time nor space, immanent and transcendent;
.......(Jer 23:24, Acts 17:27)
....B. The heavens cannot contain Him; (1Kings 8:27, Acts 17:24b)
....C. Heaven is His throne, the Earth His footstool; (Deut 4:39, Isa 66:1b)
....D. Man cannot escape the presence of God; (Job 34:21,22; Psa 139:7-10, Prov 15:3)
....E. Application to the believer, promise of the comfort of His presence; (Gen 28:15,
........Ex 33:14, Josh 1:9, Psa 121:3,4; Matt 18:20, 28:20b; 1Cor 3:16, Heb 13:5)

5. Omnipotence:
....A. God is all-powerful, with unlimited ability, within the scope of His own charactar;
........(Gen 17:1,18:14; Job 26:7, 42:2; Psa 24:8, 93:1b, 147:5a; Isa 40:26, 50:2; Jer 27:5,
.........32:27; Matt 19:26, Mark 14:36a, Luke 1:37, Rev 4:8)
....B. Limitless in authority; (Psa 33:9, Rom 13:1, Heb 1:3, Rev 19:6)
....C. Manifestation of His power; (2Chr 16:9, 25:8; Psa 74:13)
....D. Power of The Son; (Matt 9:6, 28:18; Jn 10:18, 17:2,3)
....E. Application to the believer; (1Sam 17:47, Psa 27:1, Isa 26:4, 40:29; Jer 33:3, Acts 1:8,
........2Cor 9:8, Eph 1:19, 3:20; 2Tim 1:12, 1Pet 1:5)

6. Sovereignty
....A. God is The Supreme Being of the Universe;
........(Gen 17:1,18:14; Job 26:7, 42:2; Psa 24:8, 93:1b, 147:5a; Isa 40:26, 50:2; Jer 27:5,
.........32:27; Matt 19:26, Mark 14:36a, Luke 1:37, Rev 4:8)
....B. King of Heaven and earth; (Psa 33:9, Rom 13:1, Heb 1:3, Rev 19:6)
....C. Eternal, infinite and self determining; (2Chr 16:9, 25:8; Psa 74:13)
....D. Power of The Son; (Matt 9:6, 28:18; Jn 10:18, 17:2,3)
....E. Expression of Divine volition resulting in a plan for humanity; (1Sam 17:47, Psa 27:1,
.......Isa 26:4, 40:29; Jer 33:3, Acts 1:8, 2Cor 9:8, Eph 1:19, 3:20; 2Tim 1:12, 1Pet 1:5)

7. Love:
....A. God is eternal, unchangeable Love
........(Gen 17:1,18:14; Job 26:7, 42:2; Psa 24:8, 93:1b, 147:5a; Isa 40:26, 50:2; Jer 27:5,
.........32:27; Matt 19:26, Mark 14:36a, Luke 1:37, Rev 4:8)
....B. The infinite, boundless Love compelled Him to reach out to those He Loves;
....C. In setting forth saving grace, His Love was three fold;
.......(1) The Father's Love; (Jn 3:16, 1Jn 4:9)
.......(2) The Son's Love; (1Jn 3:16a)
.......(3) The Holy Spirit's Love; (Jn 16:8-11, 1Cor 2:9-11)

.....D. Application to unbeliever;
.......(1) God's Righteousness cannot fellowship with sin, therefore, His Justice must demand
...........a penalty for sin. (Rom 6:23a).
.......(2) Therefore a barrier, which is insurmountable by man, who in his fallen state is doomed
...........to eternal separation from God, prevented His Love from reaching him; (Isa 59:2)
.......(3) The "barrier" was removed entoto by the cross;

....E. Application to the believer;
.......(1) Those who appropriate the grace of God at salvation are accepted in the Beloved;
...........(Eph 1:6, Rom 8:38,39)
.......(2) The Love of God is produced in the life of the believer filled with The Holy Spirit, and is
...........expressed in Love toward others.

8. Eternal Life:
....A. God is absolute existence, Jehovah; "The Self-Existent One who reveals Himself";
........(Gen 17:1,18:14; Job 26:7, 42:2; Psa 24:8, 93:1b, 147:5a; Isa 40:26, 50:2; Jer 27:5,
.........32:27; Matt 19:26, Mark 14:36a, Luke 1:37, Rev 4:8)
....B. God has no beginning (existed in "eternity past") (Gen 1:1a, Isa 43:13a, Col 1:17)
........and He will exist forever without end. (Deut 32:40, 33:27; Job 36:26, Psa 9:7, 90:2,
........102:27, 135:13; Lam 5:19, Hab 3:6, Jn 1:1-4, 1Tim 1:17, 1Jn 5:11, Rev 1:8, 21:6, 22:13)
....C. Application to unbeliever, rejection of Christ, eternal punishment;
........(Jn 8:24, Matt 25:46a)
....D. Application to the believer, eternal life in Christ; (Jn 3:16, 10:28,29; 1Jn 5:11)
....... Assurance; (Jn 8:51, 14:1-3).

(cont)

[linssue55]

There are TONS, and TONS of verses on Elohim, starting from Genesis 1:1 "In eternity past, God (Elohim = plural person's) created the heavens and the earth.".....This is UNdeniable and Irrefutable, and EXtremely clear from the word throughout the entire bible as all the verses I posted states. A person would have to be in total denial not to see it.


9. Righteousness:
....A. God is absolute holiness, uprightness;
........(Gen 17:1,18:14; Job 26:7, 42:2; Psa 24:8, 93:1b, 147:5a; Isa 40:26, 50:2; Jer 27:5,
.........32:27; Matt 19:26, Mark 14:36a, Luke 1:37, Rev 4:8)
....B. Intrinsic good; (Psa 33:9, Rom 13:1, Heb 1:3, Rev 19:6)
....C. Free from sin; (2Cor 5:21, 1Jn 1:5)
....D. Perfect in His charactar and Person; (Deut 32:4b, Psa 7:9, 11:7, 97:6, 111:3, 119:137a;
.........Jer 23:6, Jn 17:25a, Rom 1:17, 10:3; 1Jn 2:29)
....E. Therefore, He is Righteous in all His attitudes and actions; (Deut 32:4a, 2Sam 22:31a,
.........Psa 113:137b, 145:17; Dan 9:14, Rev 19:2)
....F. Application to unbeliever;
........(1) God's concept of Righteousness is absolute, He cannot fellowship with sin, and He
............demands the same of His creatures that abide with Him in Heaven.
........(2) Man's concept of righteousness is relative; (Isa 64:6)
........(3) No man can measure up to the Divine standard of Righteousness by their own works.
............(Tit 3:5, Rom 3:23, Psa 14:3)
........(4) However, the Righteousness of God is available to all who believe. (Rom 3:22)
....G. Application to the believer; (Rom 6:13,18; 1Tim 6:11 1 Jn 1:9)

10. Justice:
....A. It is impossinble for God to be unfair. His judgements are perfect and demand
........perfection. Justice administers the penalty which Righteousness demands.
........(Deut 32:4, 2Chr 19:7, Job 37:23, Psa 19:19, 50:6b, 58:11, 89:14; Isa 45:21, Jer 50:7,
........ Rom 3:26, Heb 10:30,31; 12:23; 1Jn 1:9, Rev 15:13)
....B. Justice exemplefied in the plan of redemption:
........(1) The Lord Jesus Christ, through His vicarious, efficatious, spiritual death transfered
........... the guilt of the sinner to Himself, satisfying the perfect Justice of God. (1Pet 2:24,
............ Rom 5:12, 6:23)
........(2) God is now free to pardon and justify the sinner who accepts His offer of saving grace.
........... (Rom 3:21-28, 4:5, 8:1)
........(3) God is equally justified in condemning all who reject salvation (Jn 3:18,36; Jn 5:28-30)
........(4) The basis of their indictment is their works, not sin. (Rev 20:11-15)
....C. Judgement is committed to Him who was judged for us; (Jn 5:22, Heb 9:27,28)
....E. Application to the believer; (1Cor 11:31, 1Jn 4:17)

11. Immutability:
....A. God is niether capable of, nor susecptible to change;
........(Psa 102:26,27; Mal 3:6, Heb1:12)
....B. He is absolute stablity; (Isa 40:28, Jas 1:7)
....C. His Word and His works are unchanging; (Psa 119:89, Eccl 3:14, Isa 40:8)
....D. Immutability is the basis for His everlasting faithfulness; (psa 36:5, 88:33, 119:90,
....... Lam 3:23)
..........(1) Faithful to keep His promises. (Num 23:19, Eccl 3:14, Isa 40:8)
..........(2) Faithful to forgive. (1 Jn 1:9)
..........(3) Faithful to keep us saved. (2Tim 2:12,13)
..........(4) Faithful to deliver in pressure. (1 Cor 10:13)
..........(5) Faithful to deliver in suffering. (1Pet 4:19)
..........(6) Faithful to provide a partnership w/Christ. (1Cor 1:9)
..........(7) Faithful to provide in eternity. (1Thes 5:24)
..........(8) Faithful to stabilize the believer. (2Tes 3:3)
....E. The faithfulness of Christ; (Heb 3:1,2; 13:18; Rev 1:5, 19:11)

12. Veracity:
....A. God is absolute Truth; (deut 32:4b)
....B. Veracity is manifest in His ways; (Psa 25:10, 86:15; Rev 15:13)
....C. In His works; (Psa 33:4, 111:7,8; Dan 4:37)
....D. In His Word; (2Sam 7:28, 1Kings 17:24, Psa 19:9, 119:142,151; Psa 138:2, Jn 8:45, 17:17,
.......2Cor 6:7, Eph 1:13)
....E. The Veracity of the Godhead;
..........(1) The Father; (Psa 31:5, Isa 65:16, Jer 10:10a, Jn 3:33, 17:3, Rom 3:4)
..........(2) The Son; (Jn 1:14, 15:26, 16:13; 1Jn 5:6)
..........(3) The Holy Spirit; (Jn 14:17, 15:26, 16:13; 1Jn 5:6)
....F. Application to believer; (Isa 38:19b, Psa 69:13)

[linssue55]

ABSOLUTE PROOF OF THE GODHEAD............Proof everywhere!


Scripture Verification.
1. The plural pronoun for God, Elohim, is used in Gen 1:26, 3:22, “Let us make man,” and in Isa 6:8, “Whom shall I send and who will go for us?”
2. Ps 110:1, “The Lord [God the Father] said to my [David’s] Lord [God the Son].”
3. The distinction is delineated in Ps 2:7, “I will announce the decree of the Lord [God the Father]. He said to Me [God the Son], `You are My Son [deity of Jesus Christ]. This day [day of incarnation] I have begotten You.’” This is quoted three times in the New Testament, in Acts 13:33, Heb 1:5, and Heb 5:5.
4. Isa 48:16, “Come near to Me; listen to this. From the first, I have not spoken in secret. From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord God [God the Father] has sent Me [God the Son], and His Spirit [God the Holy Spirit].”
5. Mt 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” This is a reference to the pre-Canon period of the Church Age in which water baptism was practiced to illustrate the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the use of ritual.
6. In Jn 10:30, Jesus said to the crowd, “I and the Father are one.” He was referring to divine essence. The Father and the Son are two distinct persons in the Godhead, but they have identical essence.
7. Jn 14:16, “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.” The next verse explains that the Counselor is said to be “the Spirit of truth; He abides with you and He will be in you.”
8. Thomas called Jesus both Lord and God when he saw Him in His resurrection body. Jn 20:28, “Thomas answered and said to Him, `My Lord, My God.’”
9. 1 Cor 12:4-6, “There are a variety of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit. And there are a variety of ministries [opportunities for Christian service], but the same Lord [God the Son]. And there are many different kinds of activities, but the same God [God the Father], who works all of them in all persons.”
10. 2 Cor 13:14, “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”
11. 1 Pet 1:2, “According to the foreknowledge of God [the Father] by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ.”
12. Rev 1:4-6, “John, to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and prosperity from Him who is [present state of the glorified Christ at the right hand of the Father], who has always existed [Jesus Christ as eternal God prior to the Hypostatic Union], who is to come [Second Advent], and from the seven spirits before the throne [God the Holy Spirit as the power system in both Christocentric dispensations], and from Jesus Christ, the dependable witness, the first formed from the dead, also the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and has liberated us from our sins by means of His blood, and He has provided for us a royal power as priests to God, even the Father.”

C. [B]Though one in essence, God is three in persons.
1. In the doctrine of the unity of God, there is only one essence or substance.
2. In the doctrine of the persons of the Godhead, the individuality of the Father, Son, and Spirit is preserved against the notion that there are only modes of God. The idea of modes of God is a false doctrine dating back to the fourth century. It implies that one God has various modes for various purposes in dealing with man, whether in creation or at salvation. That is a false doctrine. 3. God is one, yet in Himself, and from all eternity past, He is three separate and distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.
4. Argumentation for the trinity begins in Genesis with the use of plural pronouns for God.
a. Gen 1:26, “Let us make man in our image.” Therefore, more than one person in the Godhead is involved.
b. Gen 3:22, “Then the Lord God said, `Behold, man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil.’”
c. Isa 6:8, Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, `Whom shall I [God the Father] send, and who will go for us ?’”
5. When a distinction is made between the persons of the Trinity, it refers to a specific activity of specific persons in the Godhead.
a. 1 Thes 1:2-3, “We give thanks to God [God the Father] always for you, making mention of you in our prayers, constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of God our Father.” So distinction is made between the Father and Son. They have identical essence, but they are two separate and distinct persons.
b. 1 Pet 1:2, “According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ.”
c. Tit 3:5, “He [Jesus Christ] saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit.” Distinction is made between our Lord Jesus Christ and God the Holy Spirit.


D. The Distinctive Function of the Trinity.
1. While the Bible distinguishes between the members of the Trinity, it refers to the activity of specific persons in the Godhead.
2. All three members of the Trinity provided salvation.
a. God the Father planned salvation according to Isa 14:27; Jn 4:34, 5:17, 12:44; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 3:11.
b. God the Son executed salvation on the cross, Jn 4:34, 5:17; 1 Pet 2:24, 3:18; Rom 5:8; Heb 10:7.
c. God the Holy Spirit reveals the message of salvation. Under the doctrine of common grace, He makes the Gospel perspicuous, Jn 16:8-11.
3. Each person of the Trinity indwells the body of every Church Age believer. Distinction is made between them.
a. The indwelling of God the Father is found in Jn 14:23; Eph 4:6; 2 Jn 9.
b. God the Son indwells us according to Jn 14:20, 17:22-23; Rom 8:10; 2 Cor 13:5; Gal 2:20; Col 1:27; 1 Jn 2:24.
c. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is found in Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19-20; 2 Cor 6:16.
d. Only in this unique Church Age does God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit indwell us.
4. Each person of the Godhead provides divine power for the function of the protocol plan.

5. God is one in essence yet three distinct persons, and these persons have identical substance.

Divine

A-1,Adjective, theios
“Divine” (from theos, “God”), is used of the power of God, 2 Pet. 1:3, and of His nature, ver. 4, in each place, as that which proceeds from Himself. In Acts 17:29 it is used as a noun with the definite article, to denote “the Godhead,” the Deity (i.e., the one true God). This word, instead of theos, was purposely used by the Apostle in speaking to Greeks on Mars Hill, as in accordance with Greek usage. Cp. DIVINITY. In the Sept., Exod. 31:3; 35:31; Job 27:3; 33:4; Prov. 2:17.
B-1,Noun, latreia
akin to latreuo, “to serve,” primarily, any service for hire, denotes in Scripture the service of God according to the requirements of the Levitical Law, Rom. 9:4; Heb. 9:1,6, “Divine service.” It is used in the more general sense of service to God, in John 16:2; Rom. 12:1.


Divinity

1, theiotes
“divinity,” the RV rendering in Rom. 1:20 (AV, “Godhead”), is derived from theios (see DIVINE, A), and is to be distinguished from theotes, in Col. 2:9, “Godhead.” In Rom. 1:20 the Apostle “is declaring how much of God may be known from the revelation of Himself which He has made in nature, from those vestiges of Himself which men may everywhere trace in the world around them. Yet it is not the personal God whom any man may learn to know by these aids; He can be known only by the revelation of Himself in His Son; ... But in the second passage (Col. 2:9), Paul is declaring that in the Son there dwells all the fullness of absolute Godhead; they were no mere rays of Divine glory which gilded Him, lighting up His Person for a season and with a splendor not His own; but He was, and is, absolute and perfect God; and the Apostle uses theotes to express this essential and personal Godhead of the Son” (Trench, Syn. ii). Theotes indicates the “Divine” essence of Godhood, the personality of God; theiotes, the attributes of God, His “Divine” nature and properties. See GODHEAD

[RonnyRulz]

Tradition and past experiences are for chumps.

My God hates tradition and complacency, and my God is ALIVE.

To dwell on the past is to act as if your God is dead. To be complacent is like putting God in a coma, and that's practically dead. But to void tradition, throw out complacency, burn the rules of men, forget what's behind you and to run after what's ahead of you, to seek God with all your heart today instead of living in yesterday, that'll prove to the world God is alive.

It saddens me that "great preachers" have a few encounters with God or a major event in their life and dwell on that for the rest of their life, only preaching that story.

Sorry, my God is Alive. He is a Living God. I don't need to tell yesterday's story when I have one today. I don't have to preach a major event that happened 2 years ago when my God is just Alive now as he was then.

Traditions suck, and God agrees with that. He hates complacency. He hates the rules of men, religion, and tradition. God is a LIVING God. A God that's here TODAY.

Although it's true God never changes, there's SO MUCH to God that it's basically like he does. You know 1% of God one day, and then know 2% of Him the next. He never changed, but your knowledge and relationship with Him did. Today you might know the God of Peace, tomorrow the God of Power. To say God never changes is true, but to say it with a heart that we ourselves never change is the epitomy of complacency.

Down with tradition, complacency, man's religion, man's wisdom, and a dead god. That can all burn in hell with satan and the army of darkness. My God is alive, He is bigger than anything anyone knows, He can't be put in a box of man's rules or man's wisdom, and He is moving, running, and changing this world, not laying down to sleep.

BAH! I say. Bah to :priest::preach: :liturgy: that stuff. My God is alive, and He although He is old, there's so much to know of Him that if you're not complacent, He should always be new.

[RonnyRulz]

you arent supposed to follow tradition ..but God and His word...theres a difference. God bless
Yea, but God only asks for you to seek Him with all your heart and to love others as He loves them.

1) Love God
2) Love Others like God loves them

The entire Bible, from genesis to revelations is all written just to say those 2 things. That's it. All of God's Words are summed up in one word: Love.

Want to read the Bible front to back? Lemme give you a shortened version that has all of everything.

Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Love God the Father, God the Son , and God the Holy Spirit, whom forgives your sin by His Blood, with all your heart and Love others as He loves you.


There, I just quoted the entire Bible. Traditions...BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Forealzchola]

Yea, but God only asks for you to seek Him with all your heart and to love others as He loves them.

1) Love God
2) Love Others like God loves them

The entire Bible, from genesis to revelations is all written just to say those 2 things. That's it. All of God's Words are summed up in one word: Love.

Want to read the Bible front to back? Lemme give you a shortened version that has all of everything.

Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21
Love God the Father, God the Son , and God the Holy Spirit, whom forgives your sin by His Blood, with all your heart and Love others as He loves you.


There, I just quoted the entire Bible. Traditions...BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I dont understand what you are trying to imply? are you trying to imply that you believe the word of God is irrelevant?

[RonnyRulz]

I dont understand what you are trying to imply? are you trying to imply that you believe the word of God is irrelevant?
Absolutely not!

It all points to the greatest commandment: LOVE!

Anything that points to Love, anything that teaches us how to Love, anything that draws us closer to Love, is completely and utterly the most relevant thing ever.

Love is the only relevant thing, everything besides love is what is irrelevant, not the word of God which IS Love, which shows Love, which teaches Love.

[Nadiine]

Absolutely not!

It all points to the greatest commandment: LOVE!

Anything that points to Love, anything that teaches us how to Love, anything that draws us closer to Love, is completely and utterly the most relevant thing ever.

Love is the only relevant thing, everything besides love is what is irrelevant, not the word of God which IS Love, which shows Love, which teaches Love.

I agree with you- (to add to it) -
The greatest commandment is LOVE and it all boils down to that; however, we must also DEFINE LOVE correctly (biblically). Many people today don't associate punishment, discipline, judging fruit, using discernment or rebuke as "Love"... but the Bible does. They are forms of love used when necessary.
Rev 3:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev003.html#19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

God's LOVE included alot of discipline and judgment upon Israel when they strayed.
God's LOVE sent His Son to endure torture & mocking for our sin debt.
God's LOVE told us not to cast pearls to 'swine' - and 'shake the dust' when refused. Mat 7:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat007.html#6) Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Jesus' LOVE made a whip of cords and turned over tables at the temple to keep His house pure and the people protected from such misuse.John 2:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=2&verse=15&version=50&context=verse)
When [Jesus] had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables.
Jesus' LOVE rebuked a group of pharisees calling them "sons of hell". Mat 23:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat023.html#33) [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Jesus' LOVE taught about eternal condemnation, Satan & Hell. (Mt 5:29-23, Mt. 18:9)
Jesus' LOVE teaches us how to judge correctly: Jhn 7:24 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn007.html#24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Paul's LOVE taught us who to judge righteously and how to discipline within the church: 1 Cor. 5:1-15 (But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.)
John's LOVE told Christians not to bid someone bringing a false gospel 'God speed' 2Jo 1:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=2Jo&chapter=1&verse=9&version=kjv) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

As I see it, the problem isn't Christians realizing it's all about LOVE.. it's defining biblical Love. This 'warm, fuzzy, coddling, tolerant-of-everything/everyone' type of love used in EVERY situation w/ every person isn't biblical at all.

Our (PC) culture has been redefining what love is - unfortunately, it's in opposition with what God calls Love.
***And THIS is why we have Christians battling other Christians the minute they use any of the less pleasant, harsher forms of love today.
They're harshly judged & attacked for it (which interests me, since the people claiming rebuke and judgment are meanspirited & unloving are USING JUST THAT on the ones they're aggressively attacking. They have NO problem using attack on the ones THEY deem worthy of it.) :scratch: :sigh:

So while I agree with you that it all boils down to love of God and neighbor essentially, that love also must be defined by God - who IS love. :angel:
Otherwise, discipline, rebuke, punishment & using righteous judging or discernment become "unloving" which then ISN'T TRUE LOVE AT ALL (according to God).