3 Baptisms

[HisWordIsMySword]

Many today are content knowing that they were sprinkled when they were children in the church. Yet, in the New Testament, all who were baptized were required to believe in Jesus Christ with all of their hearts (Acts 8:36) and then they were taken and baptized in water (Acts 8:38). Nothing has changed. If you have not been baptized since you have become a believer, you should have it done.

Many are unclear about baptism. For instance, there is not just one baptism spoken of in scripture, but three. There is the baptism that saves us by the baptism of blood. There is the baptism of water and there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of salvation is not recognized by most churchs as actual baptism. But that does not mean it is not baptism. There is only one baptism that saves a man and it is the baptism of blood. The scripture below explains that the water baptism is the figure of the baptism that saves us. When we get baptized in water, we do nothing that pertains to the putting away of the flesh, but it gives us a good conscience towards God.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In these verses, it talks about being baptized into Christ, not being baptized in the name of Chirst. We are baptized into Christ when we are born again. This is the first baptism. If one does not recieve this baptism, one cannot recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit because the temple must be sanctified by blood and made Holy before God will put his Spirit into it.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


In these verses it shows the relationship of the blood of Jesus to salvation.

Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God's wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry in like manner with the blood.

Hebrews 9:22 According to the law, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Hebrews 11:28 By faith, he kept the Passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them.

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, our Lord Jesus,

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


The second baptism is the baptism of water. It is found throughout the New Testament and all who recieve it were baptized in the name of Jesus. It is

Acts 8:16 for as yet he had fallen on none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus.

Acts 10:48 He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay some days.


The third baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

Acts 1:5 For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Acts 11:16 I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said,'John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit.'



IMPORTANT: To do this study, it will take time, but upon completion, will open the scriptures to you as never before. Things that you read and did not understand now begins making sense.

What you have to do is take index cards. On each card will be one scripture. Firstly, on a sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to salvation. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to baptisms. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to the blood of the lamb. Stick with the New Testament only. That is all you will need. Once you have gathered all scripture, put a verse on an index card. By the time you get finished, you will have many. What you are trying to do is distinguish what scriptures pertain to as ONE baptism. So basically, you will be trying to sort what pertains to the baptism of salvation which is the first baptism. You will be trying to distinguish what pertains to water baptism which is symbolic of the baptism that saves us and is the second baptism and you will be trying to distinguish the baptism of the Holy Ghost which is the third baptism and is the baptism given on the day of Pentecost.


Now comes the tough part. This is where you need to pray for the Lord to guide you. You have to start sorting what scriptures are related. This will take much time and you will probably go back and forth for some time.

One important note: There is a difference between being baptized into Christ and being baptized in the name of Christ. This is important to remember when doing the study. Examine each word. For there is a difference between into Christ and in the name of Christ.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Please do this study. It will change how you see the scriptures.

[WesWoodell]

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit-- just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
(NIV)

One ... not two, not three - one.

The Bible was made to be read by the common man, and its written on about the sixth grade level. Its not as complicated as you're making it.

[New_Wineskin]

Many today are content knowing that they were sprinkled when they were children in the church. Yet, in the New Testament, all who were baptized were required to believe in Jesus Christ with all of their hearts (Acts 8:36) and then they were taken and baptized in water (Acts 8:38). Nothing has changed. If you have not been baptized since you have become a believer, you should have it done.

Many are unclear about baptism. For instance, there is not just one baptism spoken of in scripture, but three. There is the baptism that saves us by the baptism of blood. There is the baptism of water and there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of salvation is not recognized by most churchs as actual baptism. But that does not mean it is not baptism. There is only one baptism that saves a man and it is the baptism of blood. The scripture below explains that the water baptism is the figure of the baptism that saves us. When we get baptized in water, we do nothing that pertains to the putting away of the flesh, but it gives us a good conscience towards God.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In these verses, it talks about being baptized into Christ, not being baptized in the name of Chirst. We are baptized into Christ when we are born again. This is the first baptism. If one does not recieve this baptism, one cannot recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit because the temple must be sanctified by blood and made Holy before God will put his Spirit into it.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,


In these verses it shows the relationship of the blood of Jesus to salvation.

Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God's wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry in like manner with the blood.

Hebrews 9:22 According to the law, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

Hebrews 11:28 By faith, he kept the Passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them.

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, our Lord Jesus,

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


The second baptism is the baptism of water. It is found throughout the New Testament and all who recieve it were baptized in the name of Jesus. It is

Acts 8:16 for as yet he had fallen on none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus.

Acts 10:48 He commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay some days.


The third baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

Acts 1:5 For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Acts 11:16 I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said,'John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit.'



IMPORTANT: To do this study, it will take time, but upon completion, will open the scriptures to you as never before. Things that you read and did not understand now begins making sense.

What you have to do is take index cards. On each card will be one scripture. Then on a sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to salvation. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to baptisms. Then on another sheet of paper, write down every scripture that pertains to the blood of the lamb. Stick with the New Testament only. That is all you will need. Once you have gathered all scripture, put a verse on a card. By the time you get finished, you will have many.

Now comes the tough part. This is where you need to pray for the Lord to guide you. You have to start sorting what scriptures are related. This will take much time and you will probably go back and forth for some time.

One important note: There is a difference between being baptized into Christ and being baptized in the name of Christ. This is important to remember when doing the study. Examine each word. For there is a difference between into Christ and in the name of Christ.

I agree with one baptism - though , not water . Jesus said that He baptizes in the Spirit . All who are reborn have been baptized by Him and into Him .

[WesWoodell]

I agree with one baptism - though , not water . Jesus said that He baptizes in the Spirit . All who are reborn have been baptized by Him and into Him .

The Bible doesn't agree with you.

Acts 8:36
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
(NIV)

[New_Wineskin]

The Bible doesn't agree with you.

Acts 8:36
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
(NIV)

Funny that you call yourself "Bible" .

You take that passage out of context .

My not being in agreement with your interpretation of the Scriptures doesn't mean that the Scriptures are in disagreement with me .

[kepp]

Funny that you call yourself "Bible" .

You take that passage out of context .

My not being in agreement with your interpretation of the Scriptures doesn't mean that the Scriptures are in disagreement with me .I read Acts 8:36 much like WW, I believe. In what context do you see it?

[WesWoodell]

Funny that you call yourself "Bible" .

You take that passage out of context .

My not being in agreement with your interpretation of the Scriptures doesn't mean that the Scriptures are in disagreement with me .

That's just silly. You're not being honest.

You can't make a conclusion about something before you examine the evidence. You learned what you're saying from someone else, because there's no way you came to your conclusion on your own through reading the Bible. The Bible does not teach what you claim it does.

If you'd like to share with me how I took that verse out of context, I'd be more than happy to listen.

[Schroeder]

The Bible doesn't agree with you.

Acts 8:36
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
(NIV) he was ALREADY SAVED. read rom 9:8-10. the eunuch said just what rom 10:9-10 says and it says you are SAVED when you do this. Phillip did not tell him to be water baptized he asked phillip if he could phillipo said he could IF he truely believed, as rom 10:9-10 says and it says he was saved already BEFORE water basptism. scripture explains itself if you wish to look and see. So yes it does agree with him and NOT your interpretation. because scripture interrpretes itself it doesnt need us to figure it out.

[Schroeder]

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit-- just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
(NIV)

One ... not two, not three - one.

The Bible was made to be read by the common man, and its written on about the sixth grade level. Its not as complicated as you're making it. this doesnt help you much seeing how you got it wrong as well. we are all baptized BY the ONE SPirit into the ONE Body. If you claimn as some do that the one body one spirit verse is what 1 cor 12:13 is saying and the next ONE baptism is of water that makes TWO which is not what it says. again as you say it isnt rocket science. i came baptizing with water BUT a man will come he will baptize with the SPirit.

[WesWoodell]

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. You're welcome to be as wrong as you choose to be.

God bless.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it's back on the blood of the lamb. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.


Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.
Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.
Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.
1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
Revelation 7:14 I told him, "My lord, you know." He said to me, "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.
Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb's blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn't love their life, even to death.

[WesWoodell]

You're right - there is power in the blood. There is power in whatever God says there is power in. Consider this:

1 Peter 3:18-21
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
(NIV)

It seems that there is power in this baptism too. Power because of Christ's blood, and power because God said so.

Your concordance work can't change that.

[HisWordIsMySword]

You're right - there is power in the blood. There is power in whatever God says there is power in. Consider this:

1 Peter 3:18-21
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
(NIV)

It seems that there is power in this baptism too. Power because of Christ's blood, and power because God said so.

Your concordance work can't change that.
1 Peter 3:21 (http://kjv.biblebrowser.com/1_peter/3-21.htm) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


You are not the first to use this scripture to try and save their unsavable stand that it is water baptism that saves us Wes.

You must understand you use of this scripture is not correct. I am saying this to be ignorance and I pray you don't take it as that. I ask you try to see why I say this.

When we are born again, what happens inside us cannot be seen. It is an event that occurs where only the man and God is involved. In the scripture above, it speaks of the baptism that saves us and this the baptism of salvation, the baptism of blood, the baptism that occurs on the inside of the man. It is the washing away of the sins by the blood of Christ. It is the baptism into Christ through his blood.

The water baptism is the figure of the baptism that saves us. It is the outward symbolic baptism of the inward baptism that could not be seen. So when we receive water baptism, we are confessing to the world that we have died to our sinful selves are are new creatures in Christ. We are giving God the glory.

It says that there is only one baptism. Think for a minute. What is it that ties us all together? It is not water. It is salvation. It is being born again that seperates us, makes us a peculiar people.

[New_Wineskin]

again as you say it isnt rocket science. i came baptizing with water BUT a man will come he will baptize with the SPirit.

And , that is mentioned in all four of the writings called "gospels" as well as the writing called "Acts" . Five seperate writings that show that Jesus will baptize - and , not with water .

[MercuryAndy]

Why didnt you accept jesus when you were born?

[WesWoodell]

Again, the teaching you guys are perpetuating came about in the late 1700s or early 1800s.

Yes, the Jews were baptized by the Spirit (see the beginning of Acts 2), and later the Gentiles were as well (see Acts 11). The baptism of the Spirit occurred at these times in history according to the Bible.

[Schroeder]

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. You're welcome to be as wrong as you choose to be.

God bless.your right it doesnt BUT i just showed you it does in your thinking. acts 2:38 then read gal 3:2,14 eph 1:13-14 and many others. the fact that you never seem to deal with the passages i keep giving you makes me wonder who is ignoring what. GRACE means what to you. Titus 3:5 says what, not saved by righteous acts. is not getting or doing what you think GOd asks you to do to be saved a righteous act. BUT what rom 8:5-10 says we can not do the will of God UNLESS the SPirit is in us. your the one with the problem with scripture. PLEASE write them out for all of us to see and show me were my thinking is wrong in each of the passages i just gave. FACT is Christ told us what God asks as far as a Work. john 6:28-29 to believe read this FIRST then the others. then the passages you keep bringing up.

[Schroeder]

You're right - there is power in the blood. There is power in whatever God says there is power in. Consider this:

1 Peter 3:18-21
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
(NIV)

It seems that there is power in this baptism too. Power because of Christ's blood, and power because God said so.

Your concordance work can't change that. the ARK is Christ the water(flood) is the SPirit. the flood rid the earth of sin gave it a rebirth and renewal which is what Titus 3:5 speaks about. the Flood was Gods work just as the SPriit baptism is GOd work that is why it is called GRACE. we believe on(build the ark)CHRIST and GOd will bring the (flood to rid sin) SPirit to give us a rebirth and renewal. Which is why the water signifies the baptism that now saves you. and why he said NOT the washing of dirt from the flesh but.... when we are SPriit baptized the SPirit comes into us and unites us to his death and ressurection which is how the BLOOD washes our sins away. heb 9:14.

[denissca]

Paul talks about seven unities in the the Epistle to Ephesians Chapter 4. Verses 4-6 clearly state that:

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.:amen:

[HisWordIsMySword]

Dear brothers and sisters,

One thing I ask is that you do this study. The reason I posted this study is not just so people can read and argue, but so that the body of Christ can see that what has been adopted in most doctrines today are not how the scriptures portray or teach the church. Over the centuries, the enemy has slowed moved or changed how the gospel is to be understood. And for generations, this has caused much diversity amongst the body of believers and that is why we have the many different denominations. Or at least part of the reason. The other reason being the inflex of the many different translations.

That is why I beg my brothers and sisters to do the study. Yet, I have yet to met just one who has done the study. I know one person who is doing it as we speak and she has not finished it. The study takes much time and is best served with more then one person involved at the start. Yet, at the end, once all scripture has been put on cards and a general layout has been concieved, then I pray that each person go to God the Father and do the finishing touches. The reason being is the Holy Spirit is not for one, but for all and it is a wonderful thing to see a group of believers coming together and finding that they have all come to the same conclusions by the unction of the Holy Spirit. It is how God manifests himself to us. It is how he helps us grow in our faith. We must put our trust in him.

[WesWoodell]

I've got a study for you to do.

Go see what those who sat at the feet of the Apostles wrote and said about baptism that they learned from the Apostles who themselves learned from God.

Here's a link to a book that will give you a good paraphrase: http://www.amazon.com/Will-Real-Heretics-Please-Stand/dp/0924722002

P.S. - the results of this study contradicted what this author had been taught his whole life.

I've heard your argument and what you have to say, and while you mostly make good points I still do not believe you understand what the Bible and the Apostles really teach or taught about baptism in water.

You've bought into a heresy that has been perpetuated for the last couple of hundred years, and this has tainted your understanding.

[HisWordIsMySword]

That is because you must stand on the belief that water saves us. And that is not of the gospel of Christ. For it is not water that washes away our sins. It is not water that cleanses the inside of the man. It was not water that was shed for us on the cross.

In Romans 6:3, it talks about the baptism of salvation. This to, many try to tie in with water baptism. Yet, it doesn't say we are baptized in the name of Jesus. It says we are baptized into Christ. This in not the same as being baptized in the name of Jesus. Proof of this is in verse six which proves this is the baptism of blood that washes away our sins. It is not water that does this.


Romans 6:6 (http://kjv.biblebrowser.com/romans/6-6.htm) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

[WesWoodell]

No ... I don't stand on the belief that water saves us, but you're welcome to keep putting words in my mouth, and you're welcome to continue in error and to continue completely contradicting what the Apostles really taught. The choice is yours ...

God bless.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Dear Wes,

You keep saying what I have posted is not right, yet you have not once posted a credible argument. So either you are young in the Word or you just like to argue.

Yet, it does not matter. You can say what I posted is wrong all you like, but you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with God. If you would take the time to honestly do the study and allow God to lead you into all truth, you may see the light, but to just sit are bark out that what is posted here is not right is words pass quietly into the night. Everyone wants to argue, but none want to take the time to seek what is faithful and true. None want to seek the face of God. That is this generation.

[Schroeder]

your right it doesnt BUT i just showed you it does in your thinking. acts 2:38 then read gal 3:2,14 eph 1:13-14 and many others. the fact that you never seem to deal with the passages i keep giving you makes me wonder who is ignoring what. GRACE means what to you. Titus 3:5 says what, not saved by righteous acts. is not getting or doing what you think GOd asks you to do to be saved a righteous act. BUT what rom 8:5-10 says we can not do the will of God UNLESS the SPirit is in us. your the one with the problem with scripture. PLEASE write them out for all of us to see and show me were my thinking is wrong in each of the passages i just gave. FACT is Christ told us what God asks as far as a Work. john 6:28-29 to believe read this FIRST then the others. then the passages you keep bringing up. well Wes hear are the passages try to tell me what i am thinking wrong. i am and have shown ocntradictions in your thinking of scripture BUT you just ignore them. Lets be honest and look at them. print them out for us to decide.

[Schroeder]

No ... I don't stand on the belief that water saves us, but you're welcome to keep putting words in my mouth, and you're welcome to continue in error and to continue completely contradicting what the Apostles really taught. The choice is yours ...

God bless. BUT you believe we will not be saved if we do not do it. that we do not obey his command to do it which is why we are not saved. i think you say our lack of obediance to him. thenm you say Acts 2:38 says we are to be water baptized to reciece the Spirit. YET YET rom 8:5-10 says we can not be OBEDIANT to Him unless the SPirit is in us. SO DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM WES

[HisWordIsMySword]

Did Wes take his bike and go home?

[WesWoodell]

LoL ... no, I'm just tired of talking to you guys.

If you want to know why, look at how long this thread turned out to be: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=13790278#post13790278

I have better things to do than to argue with people who aren't interested in investigating what I say.

I was courteous enough to examine your side of the argument, and what you're saying continues to contradict a few key passages of Scripture (in context), as well as what members of the early church believed about water baptism.

I don't believe you guys aren't saved or that the people in your churches are going to hell or anything like that, but I do believe this baptism thing needs another look from you.

But I'm not interested in circular arguments when the other side refuses to use the brain God gave them to examine both sides of the argument. A circular argument is a foolish argument - read 2 Timothy 2:23.

If you enjoy stupid arguments, then I encourage you to go post in the other thread I posted a link to. You can foolishly argue about this subject until the end of time if you're so inclined, but I have better things to do.

God bless, and goodbye.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Dear Wes,

I really appreciate your honesty and it is refreshing. I thank you for it. For you to say that you do not doubt that our salvation means you are of the same spirit. That is a good thing. And on that, makes you my brother in the Lord. As for how you stand in baptism, we are not all in the spiritual growth Wes. Not all will have the same understanding. All I ask is that you give me your honest opinion on how you stand on the baptism. I cannot talk with you on defense of my stand on baptism without knowing your stand. You claim my stand in not correct and I can prove to you beyond all doubt that it is not. But before I do, I need to know your stand. It would make it easier for me to work with you. We should work together as brothers in the Lord for the betterment of the faith. We should work together for the growth of the body of Christ. I know you may think I am being presumptuous when it comes to my stand as being the way it was in the days of the apostles, but if it was derived by me, I would say you are right. Yet, it was given by the untion of the Holy Spirit. It was not something that happened all at once, but something that came over time. It was in the form of the study. It was for this reason I have posted the study. I cannot take credit for this, for to do so, would make me a liar. I am just a mere man who goes to work and seeks the face of the Lord. The Holy Spirit of God is a river of truth. And that truth is there for all who seek to partake of it. And all who seek to partake of it, come of the same truth. For God will reveal himself to those who seek him. To those who seek him allot, he reveals allot. To those who seek him alittle, he reveals alittle. It is a matter of faith.

[Schroeder]

LoL ... no, I'm just tired of talking to you guys.

If you want to know why, look at how long this thread turned out to be: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=13790278#post13790278

I have better things to do than to argue with people who aren't interested in investigating what I say.

I was courteous enough to examine your side of the argument, and what you're saying continues to contradict a few key passages of Scripture (in context), as well as what members of the early church believed about water baptism.

I don't believe you guys aren't saved or that the people in your churches are going to hell or anything like that, but I do believe this baptism thing needs another look from you.

But I'm not interested in circular arguments when the other side refuses to use the brain God gave them to examine both sides of the argument. A circular argument is a foolish argument - read 2 Timothy 2:23.

If you enjoy stupid arguments, then I encourage you to go post in the other thread I posted a link to. You can foolishly argue about this subject until the end of time if you're so inclined, but I have better things to do.

God bless, and goodbye. should have guessed this. i showed you again that what you say contradicts scripture and again you do not look at the passages i give you and yet still manage to say we do not study well enough and have circular reasoning. this is not the first time you have dropped out of an discussion with me. it seems when i bring up these same passages you just leave. have you yet looked into the passages i gave you NOPE. you just avoid it all together you have not once wrote them out like i said to do so we can all see what is said. it is apparent you have much more to lose then we. you are a pastor and to believe such a thing would reguire you to LOSE your congregation. SO i can see the difficulty of that.

[Starcrystal]

I've read most of this and don't think there should be nitpicking over the issue.
Eph 4:5 - One Lord, One faith, one baptism I believe would indicate the being baptised into Christ at salvation. Newwineskin seems to call that the "baptism of blood" and while scripture never calls it by that specific name it could certainly apply since it is the blood that washes us from sin when we believe on Christ.
Then there is water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
So one baptism into Christ - being in context of the verse. Interestingly the word "one" appearing before baptism is a feminine derivitive of the Greek word used for "one" before Lord and faith. Perhaps this indicates that the salvation baptism into Christ is still something that is a work of the Spirit, even though it is distinct from the baptism of the Holy Spirit and accompanying gifts....

[Schroeder]

I've read most of this and don't think there should be nitpicking over the issue.
Eph 4:5 - One Lord, One faith, one baptism I believe would indicate the being baptised into Christ at salvation. Newwineskin seems to call that the "baptism of blood" and while scripture never calls it by that specific name it could certainly apply since it is the blood that washes us from sin when we believe on Christ.
Then there is water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
So one baptism into Christ - being in context of the verse. Interestingly the word "one" appearing before baptism is a feminine derivitive of the Greek word used for "one" before Lord and faith. Perhaps this indicates that the salvation baptism into Christ is still something that is a work of the Spirit, even though it is distinct from the baptism of the Holy Spirit and accompanying gifts.... couls you show me were in scripture it says that the
Spirit or work of it is distinct and different from the baptism of the holy Spirit and accompanying gifts. the SPirit is the Holy Spirit and it is already in you there is no extra holy spirit baptism after salvation. there is the workin gof the SPirit to help you do more then usual. healing prophecy tongues whatever ut it is not from another baptism of the spirit but just the Spirit using the gifts you have.

[Starcrystal]

couls you show me were in scripture it says that the
Spirit or work of it is distinct and different from the baptism of the holy Spirit and accompanying gifts. the SPirit is the Holy Spirit and it is already in you there is no extra holy spirit baptism after salvation. there is the workin gof the SPirit to help you do more then usual. healing prophecy tongues whatever ut it is not from another baptism of the spirit but just the Spirit using the gifts you have.

The problem is that I think both views are correct! Yes the Holy Spirit is in you at salvation. So the "baptism" is really more like a little extra kick. It appears to be a different phenomenon because of this, so in essence it IS a separate work, though still of the same Spirit. Certainly nothing to split hairs over.

Paul wrote in Romans 1:11 "For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;" suggesting that by praying for these people they would receive additional gifts.

Truth is that gifts of the spirit do not usually start at the point of salvation. they come as a subsequent work of the Spirit. On rare occasion you may hear of someone speaking in tongues or prophecying right after they are born again, but in most cases these things happen at some point in time later. I have also seen people saved but then weeks or months later experience a Holy Spirit baptism experience. Are these fake? It's more power. That is certainly obvious.

[HisWordIsMySword]

couls you show me were in scripture it says that the
Spirit or work of it is distinct and different from the baptism of the holy Spirit and accompanying gifts. the SPirit is the Holy Spirit and it is already in you there is no extra holy spirit baptism after salvation. there is the workin gof the SPirit to help you do more then usual. healing prophecy tongues whatever ut it is not from another baptism of the spirit but just the Spirit using the gifts you have.
Dear Schroeder,

Why do you insist on arguing with scripture. You are saying that all those on the day of Pentecost were unsaved until the Holy Ghost came upon them. That is far fetched. Do you think Peter, who denied our Lord 3 times waited until the day of Pentecost to ask for the forgiveness of his sins and well as the rest of the apostes who abandoned Jesus and left him to his fate. Do you not think they said to Jesus, when Jesus appeared to them after his resurrection, " Forgive us Lord?" Or do you think the Holy Spirit had to come upon them to be saved. That is not what scripture says. It says believe on Jesus Christ, for he is the resurrection and the life.

[Schroeder]

The problem is that I think both views are correct! Yes the Holy Spirit is in you at salvation. So the "baptism" is really more like a little extra kick. It appears to be a different phenomenon because of this, so in essence it IS a separate work, though still of the same Spirit. Certainly nothing to split hairs over.

Paul wrote in Romans 1:11 "For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;" suggesting that by praying for these people they would receive additional gifts.

Truth is that gifts of the spirit do not usually start at the point of salvation. they come as a subsequent work of the Spirit. On rare occasion you may hear of someone speaking in tongues or prophecying right after they are born again, but in most cases these things happen at some point in time later. I have also seen people saved but then weeks or months later experience a Holy Spirit baptism experience. Are these fake? It's more power. That is certainly obvious. AGREED

[Schroeder]

Dear Schroeder,

Why do you insist on arguing with scripture. You are saying that all those on the day of Pentecost were unsaved until the Holy Ghost came upon them. That is far fetched. Do you think Peter, who denied our Lord 3 times waited until the day of Pentecost to ask for the forgiveness of his sins and well as the rest of the apostes who abandoned Jesus and left him to his fate. Do you not think they said to Jesus, when Jesus appeared to them after his resurrection, " Forgive us Lord?" Or do you think the Holy Spirit had to come upon them to be saved. That is not what scripture says. It says believe on Jesus Christ, for he is the resurrection and the life. WHERE does it say they ever asked Christ for forgiveness to be saved. dont think it does. they were saved or cleansed after Christ glorification after this the Spirit baptism could take place. And i do not think there salvation came about the same as ours so to speak. they were saved through the SPirit as we but they did not come about it the same as others. And i do not see hwere this post is dealing with the post i wrote to starcrystal.

[James1979]

Hiswordismysword and everyone else.

Water baptism is simply an outward. It's really a ceremonially law just like the animal sacrfices. The old testaments people were simply waiting upon the true sacrfice Jesus the Lamb of God. Water baptism is a sign waiting upon the Holy Spirit to wash away our sins and gives us a new heart/new spirit by the hearing of the gospel which is unknown to men when this happens. No one on earth can say I was saved on Novemeber 4 at 8:15pm (John 3:8) They would be calling God a liar saying that they know the exact date and time when God saved them, as God tells us that we can't know.

[HisWordIsMySword]

When Jesus enters the heart of the man, is not the Holy Ghost in that man? Is not the Holy Ghost in the Son? Is not the Father in the Son? So when we are born again, we are cleansed by the blood of the lamb, and Christ comes and resides within the inner Chambers of our hearts.

And then we come to the the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was most commonly attained by the laying on of hands. It is then we are filled, overfilled with the Holy Spirit of God.

We just must remember though, the vessel must first be made clean, sanctifed by the high priest by blood before entering the temple. Then once he enters, the Spirit of the Almighty comes. Remember the OT. That is what happens in the heart.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Water baptism is symbolic of the baptism that saves us. For only the man and his God knows what has gone on within the confines of the heart, the inward chambers. The heart is cleansed by the blood of the lamb, baptized into Christ through his blood. This baptism is not seen with the eyes. It is for this reason a man takes water baptism. For he is telling the world he has died to his sinful self and has risen a new creature in Christ. He is glorifying God and this gives him a good conscience towards God. 1 Peter 3:21

[Starcrystal]

When Jesus enters the heart of the man, is not the Holy Ghost in that man? Is not the Holy Ghost in the Son? Is not the Father in the Son? So when we are born again, we are cleansed by the blood of the lamb, and Christ comes and resides within the inner Chambers of our hearts.

And then we come to the the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was most commonly attained by the laying on of hands. It is then we are filled, overfilled with the Holy Spirit of God.

We just must remember though, the vessel must first be made clean, sanctifed by the high priest by blood before entering the temple. Then once he enters, the Spirit of the Almighty comes. Remember the OT. That is what happens in the heart.

Isn't that basically what I have said?

[HisWordIsMySword]

Your understanding is of the spirit. I have not once doubted you were not of the same spirit or that you lacked in understanding sister. You are on the path of righteous. Continue to fight the good fight sister. You are mature in the Word and it is not often I come across one who is of this level of understanding, yet, the understanding comes only by allowing Christ to live through us and to grow in us. God bless you sister and may the Holy Ghost continue to lead you into all truth.

For those of the same spirit of God will recognize the things that are of God and this you have done dear one. Well done thou good and faithful servant.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Can anyone say they have done the this study? Can anyone say they are truely seeking the face of God? I posted this study how long ago. I have asked, I have begged that my brothers and sisters in the Lord please do this study.

As the Lord as my witness, nothing will be the same if you do this. When finished with this, it opens the door to God's Word as never before. If this study comes from man, then there will come no fruit, but if it comes from God, the fruit will be plentiful. For those who seek the face of God, he will reveal himself to. When you finish this study, things that had never made sense to you before, will begin to make sense.

A baby cannot learn to walk until he takes those first steps. The same is with the Word of God.

[WesWoodell]

Yes, I've looked through the study and believe your conclusions are incorrect.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Wes, I didn't ask if you looked through the study. I asked if you did the study. You cannot just thumb through the page posted and draw your conclusion. Especially if you are indoctinated, which you are. And I don't appreciate you doing this. It is not of God. He will deal with you in this matter. For if you oppose this study, and it does come from him, it is he you will answer to and not myself. On this, you can be sure of. So for you to blurt your comment as you just have, I am ashamed of you. I will pray for you, that the Lord open your eyes and soften your heart. For you did not do the study as laid out. For if you did, then possibly, God may have revealed the truth to you. Yet, you remind me of Simon who tried to purchase the laying on of hands from the apostles.

If you truly are seeking the face of God, don't just read the post, do the study as it is laid out. Let God be your teacher and let him lead you into all truth. Do not rely on the doctrines of men, but the Word of God.

[WesWoodell]

Wes, I didn't ask if you looked through the study. I asked if you did the study. You cannot just thumb through the page posted and draw your conclusion. Especially if you are indoctinated, which you are. And I don't appreciate you doing this. It is not of God. He will deal with you in this matter. For if you oppose this study, and it does come from him, it is he you will answer to and not myself. On this, you can be sure of. So for you to blurt your comment as you just have, I am ashamed of you. I will pray for you, that the Lord open your eyes and soften your heart. For you did not do the study as laid out. For if you did, then possibly, God may have revealed the truth to you. Yet, you remind me of Simon who tried to purchase the laying on of hands from the apostles.

If you truly are seeking the face of God, don't just read the post, do the study as it is laid out. Let God be your teacher and let him lead you into all truth. Do not rely on the doctrines of men, but the Word of God.

Brother, I find your speech a little bit disturbing. You are speaking as if you are God, and any who disagree with you are disagreeing with God.

I believe this to be an issue of pride, and hope that you will be aware of how your attitude appears to others in the future.

I appreciate your zeal, but do yourself a favor and keep in mind that you might just be incorrect in your understanding of things.

Others here study the same Bible you do just as much if not more than you, believe the Bible to be the authoratative word of God and view it very highly, and have come to different conclusions than you.

Why be pretentious about it?

[RonnyRulz]

The baptism of salvation is not recognized by most churchs as actual baptism. But that does not mean it is not baptism. There is only one baptism that saves a man and it is the baptism of blood.


You are completely right. People tend to forget their love for God and become Pharisees. They tend to forget God is about the spiritual, not the physical. They tend to forget baptisms are spiritual things, not physical things that deal with water.

The moment physical water is required for baptism is the moment it turns from something spiritual and of the Spirit, to something physical and of the flesh.

[RonnyRulz]

Brother, I find your speech a little bit disturbing. You are speaking as if you are God, and any who disagree with you are disagreeing with God.

I believe this to be an issue of pride, and hope that you will be aware of how your attitude appears to others in the future.

I appreciate your zeal, but do yourself a favor and keep in mind that you might just be incorrect in your understanding of things.

Others here study the same Bible you do just as much if not more than you, believe the Bible to be the authoratative word of God and view it very highly, and have come to different conclusions than you.

Why be pretentious about it?
Every Christian may read the same Bible, but they do not read it the same way.

Some sin and read it by themselves. Some do the right thing and have God read it to them.
World of difference between Man's Wisdom and God's Wisdom. Between Man's interpretation and God's interpretation.

Let God be your teacher and let him lead you into all truth.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Dear Ronny,

There are those who are of the truth and the truth is in them. You are correct that it is God who is to be our teacher. To often we try to lead when we should be led.

Thank you brother and God bless.

[HisWordIsMySword]

Dear Wes,

I presume nothing. My rebuke is not unjustified. Not one iota of this teaching can be proven not to be true. If it was from me, you could disprove it, yet it is not.

I don't know why the Lord chose to give this to me. I am not worthy to have received it. Yet, none the less, he has given it to me to spread to the world. And this I am doing. On this, the world will be held accountable of the truth of God's Word.

I asked you Wes if you did the study. You did not do the study as I asked. Until you do, your words are unfruitful as well as your opinion. I love you and the Lord loves you. If you really are seeking the face of God, do this study as it is laid out. Pray for the Lord to lead you in this study. Forget the doctrines of men, for they will not lead you to God, but away from God.

You act as if I am a newborn babe. I am not. God has been with me since I was a child. And although I did not get saved until I was fifteen, the Father came to me in dreams before I reached the age of accountablity.

I am not 48 years of age and my understanding of scripture comes from my yielding to the will of God. Only by yielding to the Son, and allowing him to grow in us, do we become less of ourselves. We are are own greatest enemies. That is why we must put our faith in Jesus.

When a man is born again, his reflection in a mirror is as a shadow, unrecognizable. Yet, as he grows in faith, that image begins to become more clear and it becomes more Christlike. We must allow Christ to work his perfect work in us. We must allow him to make us a reflection of himself.

[HisWordIsMySword]

You are completely right. People tend to forget their love for God and become Pharisees. They tend to forget God is about the spiritual, not the physical. They tend to forget baptisms are spiritual things, not physical things that deal with water.

The moment physical water is required for baptism is the moment it turns from something spiritual and of the Spirit, to something physical and of the flesh.


Outstanding brother. It is such a blessing to see one of God's children see and understand the things of the spirit. We live in a world today where truth has become a rare commodity. You made my heart leap for joy. God bless my brother.

[jmacvols]

You are completely right. People tend to forget their love for God and become Pharisees. They tend to forget God is about the spiritual, not the physical. They tend to forget baptisms are spiritual things, not physical things that deal with water.

The moment physical water is required for baptism is the moment it turns from something spiritual and of the Spirit, to something physical and of the flesh.

Eph 4:5 Paul states the "ones": one Lord, one faith, one baptism. In the great commission (Mt 28:19,20, Mk 16:15,16, Lk 24:46,47) we can see the "one Lord" instituting His "one baptism". This "one baptism" here that the "one Lord" commanded is human administered water baptism and is to be administered to "all nations" and this baptism would last "unto the end of the world". Since water baptism is the "one baptism" that lasts till the end of the wolrd, then the baptism mentioned in Eph 4, Rom 6, Gal 3 etc. must be water baptism--no other type of baptism is in effect today, only water baptism.