Reform movement within the Methodist church?

[ScottF]

I read on the internet that there is something of a reform movement going on within the Methodist church. Can someone please elaborate on what this is all about? What is it exactly that they are trying to reform?

Thanks

[AngloWesleyan]

There have been reform movements within the UMC for years. Good News has been around since 1967 and the Confessing Movement since 1995. I worked with both of them during my time in the UMC but I ultimately found them to be more frustrating than the liberal establishment. Most of the leaders are now in their late 60's or early-to-mid 70's and and don't have much interest in the emerging generation. They would be perfectly happy if the mainline church returned to where it was in the late 1940's/early 1950's.

Methodism itself began as a reform movement within the Church of England. But John Wesley had a much larger vision than simply a revamped mainline denomination. The Gospel is meant to transform the whole creation, not just prop up a dying institution.

[Savate]

There have been reform movements within the UMC for years. Good News has been around since 1967 and the Confessing Movement since 1995. I worked with both of them during my time in the UMC but I ultimately found them to be more frustrating than the liberal establishment. Most of the leaders are now in their late 60's or early-to-mid 70's and and don't have much interest in the emerging generation. They would be perfectly happy if the mainline church returned to where it was in the late 1940's/early 1950's.

Methodism itself began as a reform movement within the Church of England. But John Wesley had a much larger vision than simply a revamped mainline denomination. The Gospel is meant to transform the whole creation, not just prop up a dying institution.

Interesting....I'm sure it would be hard to explain what was the defining characterstic of either of these reform movements in a short post, but could you tell me a little bit about them?

Was either an attempt to accomodate "alternative lifestyles" or "alternative theologies"?

I appreciate you taking the time to help and illuminate.

[AngloWesleyan]

Interesting....I'm sure it would be hard to explain what was the defining characterstic of either of these reform movements in a short post, but could you tell me a little bit about them?

Was either an attempt to accomodate "alternative lifestyles" or "alternative theologies"?

I appreciate you taking the time to help and illuminate.

Precisely the opposite. Good News and the Confessing Movement are both evangelical organizations working for doctrinal reform within the UMC. By the turn of the century, however, their efforts had degenerated into mere politics. "Victory" was defined as "holding the line" at General Conference every four years. Somewhere along the line, reaching the lost with the Gospel of Jesus Christ--which can transform the lives of even the worst of sinners--became a forgotten enterprise.

[Texas Lynn]

There has been for some time efforts underway to goad the UMC to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

[seeking.IAM]

To learn more about the Confessing Movement, of which I am proud to be a member, click here:

http://confessingumc.org/v2/

To learn more about Good News, of which I know very little, click here:

http://www.goodnewsmag.org/

[Hediru]

I don't know much about the Confessing or Good News movements, but I do know of some big things happening to help out young adults. The GBOD recently formed a new task force called the Mission Focus on Young People. There is also a program availiable at some seminaries called The Emerging church, where young seminarians under 35 work with the bishops of their annual conference to figure out how to attract more young adults and youth to the church. It is a nationwide epidemic that youth and young adults just don't know what to believe anymore, and many of them were turned off by church at a very young age. Our denomination is striving to branch out and help these people return to Jesus. Please keep it in your prayers.

[seeking.IAM]

Interesting article in USA Today about mainline protestant church growth.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-10-31-protestant-cover_x.htm

I confess I liked this statement:

""We chant and stand in a line of Christians who, for 1,700 years, have been saying 'Lord have mercy' in a way that a praise band and a PowerPoint presentation just don't do," Erdos says.

GBOD has to come up with something of more substance than more entertainment theology.

seeking.IAM
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[Texas Lynn]

GBOD has to come up with something of more substance than more entertainment theology.

What do you suggest?

[seeking.IAM]

What do you suggest?

I suggest that we present a faith practice that focuses on substance.

I believe most protestant denominations, UMC included, end up chasing their own tail. In the name of trying to acquire new members they focus on the next gimic to spark people's interest. Let's add another music group for people to participate in. We need powerpoint and a screen at the front of the church, then they will come. We need contemporary worship with lots of jazz--that will pack them in. The minister has to get out from behind the pulpit and stand stage center and speak without notes. Better yet if s/he can roam around the congregations as s/he speaks. And, lets not forget the liturgical dancers!

What misguided thinking.

I believe what people really want is substance and depth in the message, and a moral framework that adds some structure to their lives. Look at the churches that are growing. It isn't the "feel good" religions offering cheap grace. It's the ones that announce unashamedly that discipleship comes with a cost.

My UMC is the epitome of entertainment theology. Worship is a succession of performance arts more about glorifying the artist than glorifying the King of Kings. Beyond that all we can count on is the offering and the sermon, properly delivered center stage by a roving minister on a lavilier mike.

Hello? Have you noticed? It isn't working. We're leaving in droves!

[Texas Lynn]

I believe what people really want is substance and depth in the message

I believe we offer this, at least in churches I've been to.

...and a moral framework that adds some structure to their lives.

I don't know about this. It sounds ominous. With certain specifics I could go for it, but, as it's usually meant, I don't think it's what's needed at all.

Look at the churches that are growing. It isn't the "feel good" religions offering cheap grace. It's the ones that announce unashamedly that discipleship comes with a cost.

Which churches are those? Churches I see that are growing at a rapid rate don't offer that; they offer feelgood stuff and success gospel. Maybe if you gave an example. I find "purpose-driven" stuff to be vapid. If that's what it takes for growth, we don't need it.

[silentpoet]

Which churches are those? Churches I see that are growing at a rapid rate don't offer that; they offer feelgood stuff and success gospel. Maybe if you gave an example. I find "purpose-driven" stuff to be vapid. If that's what it takes for growth, we don't need it.

We may not agree on much but I have to mostly agree with the section I have quoted above. I think when we don't talk about suffering and the price of serving God, we lose something vitally important. Not saying it should be all gloom and doom, but that success preaching may discourage those who don't find it coming to them.

[ClementofRome]

What do you suggest?

Having, not so long ago, left the UMC, I suggest returning to the Ancient Faith of the early Church Fathers.

Forgive me.

[Hediru]

I suggest that we present a faith practice that focuses on substance.

I believe most protestant denominations, UMC included, end up chasing their own tail. In the name of trying to acquire new members they focus on the next gimic to spark people's interest. Let's add another music group for people to participate in. We need powerpoint and a screen at the front of the church, then they will come. We need contemporary worship with lots of jazz--that will pack them in. The minister has to get out from behind the pulpit and stand stage center and speak without notes. Better yet if s/he can roam around the congregations as s/he speaks. And, lets not forget the liturgical dancers!

What misguided thinking.

I believe what people really want is substance and depth in the message, and a moral framework that adds some structure to their lives. Look at the churches that are growing. It isn't the "feel good" religions offering cheap grace. It's the ones that announce unashamedly that discipleship comes with a cost.

My UMC is the epitome of entertainment theology. Worship is a succession of performance arts more about glorifying the artist than glorifying the King of Kings. Beyond that all we can count on is the offering and the sermon, properly delivered center stage by a roving minister on a lavilier mike.

Hello? Have you noticed? It isn't working. We're leaving in droves!

:amen:
Now that's what I'm talking about! It doesn't matter what kind of worship service a church has. The question one should be asking is, "Is the Holy Spirit present?" When you leave worship, or Bible study, or whatever, you should feel renewed, enlightened, or otherwise touched by God somehow. Too many times, I leave worship feeling the same way that I came in. It's too ritualistic. We just go through the motions of worship. Do we really invite the life-changing power of the Holy Spirit to our church? To our everyday lives? Just a thought.

[Hediru]

Having, not so long ago, left the UMC, I suggest returning to the Ancient Faith of the early Church Fathers.

Forgive me.

No apology needed. As long as you didn't leave Christianity, switching churches is a-ok. In fact, if it were up to me, we wouldn't have denominations! But just out of curiousity, since we are talking about reforming the Methodist church, why did you leave? That may give us something to work with, to improve. And what parts of the Ancient Faith do you think we're missing?

[Texas Lynn]

Having, not so long ago, left the UMC, I suggest returning to the Ancient Faith of the early Church Fathers.

What as you see it would that involve?

Forgive me.

For what?

[ClementofRome]

Since I do not wear the UMC faith icon, I am not allowed to criticize or proselytize in this forum (...and I know, because I am a CF Moderator). :)

I am happy to converse through PM if anyone would like. Again, forgive me, I probably should not have stuck my head in where it did not belong, but having grown up in the UMC, I still stay very informed and pray for those who call themselves Methodists.