Wesleyan Assurance of Salvation

[5stringJeff]

For my fellow Wesley's Parishoners:

Do you believe that one can be 100% assured of their salvation while on earth? If so, how? If so, why not?

I've been reading on some different views on this subject, and I'm curious to hear other people's views.

[Sonsservant]

My understanding of Wesley's thought is that we can't be. I believe that I just got saved, but there is plenty of room - who knows how long except God? - to fall away. There is a discipline to keep up, a relationship to remain attached to. "I shall work out my salvation with fear and trembling," says Paul in one of the Letters.

[Jonahan]

My understanding of Wesley's thought is that we can't be. I believe that I just got saved, but there is plenty of room - who knows how long except God? - to fall away. There is a discipline to keep up, a relationship to remain attached to. "I shall work out my salvation with fear and trembling," says Paul in one of the Letters.
On the contrary, Wesley firmly believed in assurance. In fact, at one point in his life, he believed that if one did not have assurance of salvation, one did not have salvation. Later in life, he held a much more moderate viewpoint, and acquiesced on the topic, saying that it was possible to have salvation without assurance, but that was not the norm.

You are very correct though, Sonsservant, in that Wesley did not believe in "once saved, always saved." Anyone could "backslide" over a period of time and lose their salvation. That's not an issue of assurance, though.

For the most part, Wesley believed that once you were saved, you knew you were saved. And if you had backslid out of salvation, you'd know that too.

[Jadis40]

For my fellow Wesley's Parishoners:

Do you believe that one can be 100% assured of their salvation while on earth? If so, how? If so, why not?

I've been reading on some different views on this subject, and I'm curious to hear other people's views.

I'm reminded of those times when I was attending college, that there were people who would ask that very same question. (I.E. Are you saved? Or something to that effect.) I honestly had to answer I don't know.

I mean, I had attended church, believed in Jesus Christ. I will admit there were things I've done that I regretted, and back in 1999 towards the end of October-early November I literally found myself lying face down on the floor sobbing, crying out to God for forgiveness. I believed that forgiveness was something for other people, but I thought that I had screwed up to the point that I couldn't be. I came to the realization that I was putting myself through hell.

I can't explain it, but eventually, I felt something, and the guilt over the past finally left. I had to come to the realization that God, through the work of Jesus Christ, had forgiven me, but I couldn't let go of the guilt so that I could forgive myself.

At that moment, I felt the Holy Spirit telling me that the two most important things are faith and trust. I had to have enough faith and trust in what Jesus had done on the cross, and that he truly had died to save the entire world.

[Jonahan]

...I literally found myself lying face down on the floor sobbing, crying out to God for forgiveness...At that moment, I felt the Holy Spirit telling me that the two most important things are faith and trust. I had to have enough faith and trust in what Jesus had done on the cross, and that he truly had died to save the entire world.

That's an awesome story. I've been reading some 19th century accounts from various people in the Methodist church who were having similar experiences. All very moving, as is your story.

And the next time someone asks you when you were saved, tell them "about 2000 years ago."

Blessings,

Jonathan

[Sonsservant]

On the contrary, Wesley firmly believed in assurance. In fact, at one point in his life, he believed that if one did not have assurance of salvation, one did not have salvation. Later in life, he held a much more moderate viewpoint, and acquiesced on the topic, saying that it was possible to have salvation without assurance, but that was not the norm.

You are very correct though, Sonsservant, in that Wesley did not believe in "once saved, always saved." Anyone could "backslide" over a period of time and lose their salvation. That's not an issue of assurance, though.

For the most part, Wesley believed that once you were saved, you knew you were saved. And if you had backslid out of salvation, you'd know that too.

I'm glad you cleared this up for me. I am attempting to understand the salvation theology of the letters of Paul, and each new little bit has confused the picture a little bit more. What I think is that there is one salvation, and many experiences like sign posts on the way, the time of my salvation having been a while ago, and my backsliding over for now, but I could be wrong. I tend to view theology very simply; I don't tend to think in academic terms. However, even if my view of salvation isn't completely Methodist, I'm waiting on my inquirer's class to learn more, and I'm reading the Bible to try to understand better.

[Mudfrog]

I am a salvationist - we are a wesleyan denomination too and we are certain that one can be assured of salvation. One of our doctrines says thisl;
"We believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believeth hath the witness in himself."

[ImaginaryVoyager]

And the next time someone asks you when you were saved, tell them "about 2000 years ago."
Love it!

I'm wondering--Did John Wesley address the possibility that someone may have assurance of salvation, yet go through periods of doubt?

[Hediru]

Very interesting thread.
I would like to add to what some of you have said about Wesley's beliefs concerning this matter. Wesley is famous for saying that we should all be striving for perfection. The way that I interpret this is that we must never just assume that we're saved just because we were once. We must try to live a good life modeled after Jesus' and always strive to let God make us a better person. We will never reach perfection in this life, but we will in the next.

My answer to the "When were you saved?" question:
"Everyday Jesus saves me, cause everyday I've sinned."

[hlaltimus]

My understanding of Wesleyan thought is that one can have solid assurance of reconciliation or standing in grace while in this life, but that one cannot have unimpeachable assurance that they will always stay in that grace. Wesley's thinking was a safe thinking in that we are never totally saved from all opposing enemies what-so-ever while in this imperfect world and that absolute and perfectly extensive assurance will be found only in a place where no enemies exist any longer and therefore no further assurance will ever be necessary as to a salvation that is a past perfectly accomplished fact. Wesley never did believe in angelic perfection in this life, and so would not allow for people to hold the same flawless degree of assurance of felicity here that angels enjoy there. Wesley's concept of assurance could have 5 little words written over it: "Rejoice in fear and trembling."

[sinner/SAVED]

Love it!

I'm wondering--Did John Wesley address the possibility that someone may have assurance of salvation, yet go through periods of doubt?

Wesley addressed this topic frequently.

Some examples:

On Sin in Believers (http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-013.stm)

and

Heaviness Through Manifold Temptations (http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-047.stm)

There are many more..

[ImaginaryVoyager]

Ok, excellent. As a new Methodist I had not yet found Wesley's sermons on the website. That'll keep me busy for awhile :)