What makes a Methodist a Methodist?

[Savate]

I've only recently joined the Methodist church (both my in-laws are ministers) but I was rasied a non-practicing Catholic.

I've done my church's orientation and I'm currently doing a really great 32-week Bible Study.

My question is, what is/are the main theological characteristics that define Methodism? Was there something in particular that set Wesley's thinking apart from existing denominations of the time?

I've always gotten very vague answers from fellow Methodists (i.e. they really don't know?) and even the folks in my Bible study seemed to provide little info.
:scratch:

Could someone shed some insight or maybe even refer me to some good sources?

thanks!

[herev]

http://www.amazon.com/United-Methodist-Doctrine-Extreme-Center/dp/068703485X/sr=1-8/qid=1161598851/ref=sr_1_8/104-7450311-7042318?ie=UTF8&s=books
great book, answers a lot of what you are looking for

[Savate]

Thanks Herev,
That looks like a good source. I'll check my local library.

Would you be able to provide any info though?

[herev]

well, from looking at your other posts, we're in the same conference--I am a pastor in the Western North Carolina Conference, Salisbury District. Can you perhaps narrow down your question just a little bit? sorry, I'm tired and this is a big question;)

[Savate]

hmmmm....thanks Scott.

I wonder if that's why I always get such vague answers when I ask others in the church? :)

Nonetheless, I'm interested in the actually theology that defines Methodism...if there is any.

What is "justification by faith" for example...and is it something particular to Methodism.

[ScottF]

hmmmm....thanks Scott.

I wonder if that's why I always get such vague answers when I ask others in the church? :)

Nonetheless, I'm interested in the actually theology that defines Methodism...if there is any.

What is "justification by faith" for example...and is it something particular to Methodism.
Here, try this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism)

[Sonsservant]

I think that Jesus is my friend, but he is more than that too. "I have called you friends," he says in the Gospel of John. He reproves me a great deal though, unlike a drinking buddy. I recall less than fondly finding out what God thought of the Jews in the time of Ezekiel while reading that book, and finding myself in the place of Ezekiel eating bread of spelt.

It surprises me, because most of my congregation are Republicans. In fact, all of the ones that I've met are except one or two. Regardless, being a Republican doesn't save, Jesus does. I say that as someone who despises the Democratic party and their platform.

[Jonahan]

hmmmm....thanks Scott.

I wonder if that's why I always get such vague answers when I ask others in the church? :)

Nonetheless, I'm interested in the actually theology that defines Methodism...if there is any.

What is "justification by faith" for example...and is it something particular to Methodism.

"Justification by faith" is not particular to Methodism, it's particular to Protestantism, especially at the time of the Protestant Reformation, in opposition to the belief of the Catholic church that works of righteousness (among other things) are required for salvation. Ironically, Wesley believed that given time and ability, good works were ALSO required for salvation. This got him into a bit of trouble, incidentally.

Methodism began as a holiness movement within the Church of England. Since I can't give you an entire semester's worth of UM History in this post, I'll condense it greatly, and will be happy to clarify anything, or correct it, should someone find my response in error. =)

Methodism was never intended to become its own denomination. As settlers came to North America from England, many were members of the Church of England, and many of those belonged to Methodist classes within the Church of England. To make a long story short, after the US won its independence from England, England couldn't ordain their American missionaries as priests, because all priests in the church of England had to take a vow of loyalty to the crown. Obviously no citizen of the US would do so, so the Methodists in America had no one to administer the sacraments. Because of this, and of course other reasons, in 1784 the Methodists officially parted from the Church of England and became the Methodist Episcopal Church.

Wesley hated (and no, that's not too strong of a word) the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination. Rather than limited selection, Wesley believed that salvation was available to everyone, through “prevenient grace.”

John Wesley's "Order of Salvation" begins with this “prevenient grace,” and is a piece of key doctrine that defines Methodism, if anything does. (Or, did, anyway. I doubt if 5% of our congregations have even heard the phrase “order of salvation” today.) If you like, I'll send you an essay I wrote on it for a doctrine class in seminary.

What make us Methodist? Our history, our doctrine, and our polity. I didn’t mention anything about polity, but it has to do with how we are structured as a church. Pastors belong to conferences, rather than local churches. Local churches are organized into districts, districts into conferences, and conferences into jurisdictions. Over everything is the “General Conference.” But it doesn’t sound like that’s really what you were asking, so I’ll leave it at that. =)

I hope some of that helps. I’m sorry you’ve gotten vague answers from Methodists. If you have any specific questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

Jonathan

[Savate]

Jonathan,
THANK YOU! This is the kind of info I had hoped for.

My graduate education was in Medieval Studies, so I had some exposure to theology, but had no grasp of Methodism. If you'd care to share, I'd really enjoy and appreciate reading your paper.

Great info!

[RoughEdges]

I also, appreciate Jonathan's post. I actually had the same question as the OP, and was happy to see this thread.
As a self-described "geek", I wonder if Jonathan has that essay in an easily emailed format on his computer? <hint, hint> ;)

[Jonahan]

I have it in .doc and .pdf format, but unless someone has some webspace I can ftp it to, I guess I'll need email addresses to send it out. =)

Jonathan

[Artos]

So far, the Methodism that has been referred to is that of the UMC. There are many branches of Methodism throughout the world. Thought it might be good to answer Savate's question from a wider perspective.

Scott,
Methodism in my part of Asia is primarily evangelical (99%) with more than half sympathetic or sharing the charismatic orientation. Liberalism could not survive here. So it would not be accurate to assume that all or most Methodists are 'liberal'.

Jonahan,
While I agree that previenient grace is important to Methodism, it is not the key distinctive feature of Methodism. I believe it existed in Orthodox theology in quite a strong way: possibly imbibed by the Wesleys as they read the writings of the eastern Fathers of the church.

Savate,
John Wesley said that the reason why God raised the Methodists was to 'spread Scriptural holiness throughout the land'. He was talking about Christian perfection (not perfectionist perfection. You can read it in his Christian perfection sermons/articles) or 'holiness in heart and life'. This is what makes us Methodist: the focus on holiness. Justification by faith isnt enough. Sanctification must follow. It is a SOCIAL holiness as well....for it is not just a pietistic 'me and God' kind of thing.It is a holiness that starts in the individual and seeks to TRANSFORM society as well....

Seen in a bigger perspective, our joint history traced to the Wesleys, our doctrine (based on the Sermons and Notes (Notes on the NT)of John Wesley plus hymns of Charles Wesley and our commitment to the holiness theme would be what makes us Methodists.

Polity is different in different Methodist branches.
In UK, there's no Bishop. They have Presidents.
In USA and UMC- there's only Bishops. No Presidents.
In some other countries- they have BOTH Presidents and Bishops. Some bishops are for life. Some bishops are there for a term...and cease to be bishops after they step down. The UMC has conferences, jurisdictions, general conference. Other countries do not. It is true however that most Methodist bodies are connectional, not congregational ie the pastors belong to the Annual General Conference and not to the local church. The churches are linked to each other for/in decision making processes and cannot just 'do their own thing' as a local congregation.

Hope this helps.

[Jonahan]

So far, the Methodism that has been referred to is that of the UMC.

Thanks for expanding the scope, Artos. I should have clarified that the doctrinal and historical points I raised apply to Methodism in general, while the short bit of polity I discussed was in reference to UMC, specifically.

For clarification, I didn't say that (only) prevenient grace was a key piece of Methodist doctrine, I said that the Order of Salvation was, and that the Order of Salvation began with prevenient grace. You indicated that Sanctifation is what sets Methodistm apart, but Sanctification is a part of the Order of Salvation, so I don't think we have any real disagreement there.

Blessings,

Jonathan

[Sonsservant]

"Justification by faith" is not particular to Methodism, it's particular to Protestantism, especially at the time of the Protestant Reformation, in opposition to the belief of the Catholic church that works of righteousness (among other things) are required for salvation. Ironically, Wesley believed that given time and ability, good works were ALSO required for salvation. This got him into a bit of trouble, incidentally.

Methodism began as a holiness movement within the Church of England. Since I can't give you an entire semester's worth of UM History in this post, I'll condense it greatly, and will be happy to clarify anything, or correct it, should someone find my response in error. =)

Methodism was never intended to become its own denomination. As settlers came to North America from England, many were members of the Church of England, and many of those belonged to Methodist classes within the Church of England. To make a long story short, after the US won its independence from England, England couldn't ordain their American missionaries as priests, because all priests in the church of England had to take a vow of loyalty to the crown. Obviously no citizen of the US would do so, so the Methodists in America had no one to administer the sacraments. Because of this, and of course other reasons, in 1784 the Methodists officially parted from the Church of England and became the Methodist Episcopal Church.

Wesley hated (and no, that's not too strong of a word) the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination. Rather than limited selection, Wesley believed that salvation was available to everyone, through “prevenient grace.”

John Wesley's "Order of Salvation" begins with this “prevenient grace,” and is a piece of key doctrine that defines Methodism, if anything does. (Or, did, anyway. I doubt if 5% of our congregations have even heard the phrase “order of salvation” today.) If you like, I'll send you an essay I wrote on it for a doctrine class in seminary.

What make us Methodist? Our history, our doctrine, and our polity. I didn’t mention anything about polity, but it has to do with how we are structured as a church. Pastors belong to conferences, rather than local churches. Local churches are organized into districts, districts into conferences, and conferences into jurisdictions. Over everything is the “General Conference.” But it doesn’t sound like that’s really what you were asking, so I’ll leave it at that. =)

I hope some of that helps. I’m sorry you’ve gotten vague answers from Methodists. If you have any specific questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

Jonathan

Not because I'm arguing, but because I'm curious, what did Wesley or later Methodist commentators think about those strange "predestination passages" in the Bible? I can't figure them out and they're there, and I'm willing to find them and quote them in a new thread if you think it might be a good discussion.

[Savate]

"....those strange "predestination passages" in the Bible?....

See?!? That's what I'm talking about. Real interesting stuff!

Oh brother...please quote those. My interest is piqued!

[sinner/SAVED]

Not because I'm arguing, but because I'm curious, what did Wesley or later Methodist commentators think about those strange "predestination passages" in the Bible? I can't figure them out and they're there, and I'm willing to find them and quote them in a new thread if you think it might be a good discussion.
Why not ask Wesley himself?

John Wesley's sermon "On Predestination" (http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-058.stm)

[Jonahan]

Not because I'm arguing, but because I'm curious, what did Wesley or later Methodist commentators think about those strange "predestination passages" in the Bible? I can't figure them out and they're there, and I'm willing to find them and quote them in a new thread if you think it might be a good discussion.

As you sort through this, keep in mind that the doctrine of predestination is that God has chosen certain people to go to heaven. If God has not chosen you to go to heaven, under this doctrine, then you will not, no matter WHAT you do.

There is also a doctrine of "double predestination", that God chooses not only who goes to heaven, but also who goes to hell. Wesley finds this ridiculous, claiming that there can be no doctrine of predestination that isn't a doctrine of double predestination, for anyone not going to heaven, Wesley asserts, goes to hell.

[Sonsservant]

"Justification by faith" is not particular to Methodism, it's particular to Protestantism, especially at the time of the Protestant Reformation, in opposition to the belief of the Catholic church that works of righteousness (among other things) are required for salvation. Ironically, Wesley believed that given time and ability, good works were ALSO required for salvation. This got him into a bit of trouble, incidentally.

Methodism began as a holiness movement within the Church of England. Since I can't give you an entire semester's worth of UM History in this post, I'll condense it greatly, and will be happy to clarify anything, or correct it, should someone find my response in error. =)

Methodism was never intended to become its own denomination. As settlers came to North America from England, many were members of the Church of England, and many of those belonged to Methodist classes within the Church of England. To make a long story short, after the US won its independence from England, England couldn't ordain their American missionaries as priests, because all priests in the church of England had to take a vow of loyalty to the crown. Obviously no citizen of the US would do so, so the Methodists in America had no one to administer the sacraments. Because of this, and of course other reasons, in 1784 the Methodists officially parted from the Church of England and became the Methodist Episcopal Church.

Wesley hated (and no, that's not too strong of a word) the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination. Rather than limited selection, Wesley believed that salvation was available to everyone, through “prevenient grace.”

John Wesley's "Order of Salvation" begins with this “prevenient grace,” and is a piece of key doctrine that defines Methodism, if anything does. (Or, did, anyway. I doubt if 5% of our congregations have even heard the phrase “order of salvation” today.) If you like, I'll send you an essay I wrote on it for a doctrine class in seminary.

What make us Methodist? Our history, our doctrine, and our polity. I didn’t mention anything about polity, but it has to do with how we are structured as a church. Pastors belong to conferences, rather than local churches. Local churches are organized into districts, districts into conferences, and conferences into jurisdictions. Over everything is the “General Conference.” But it doesn’t sound like that’s really what you were asking, so I’ll leave it at that. =)

I hope some of that helps. I’m sorry you’ve gotten vague answers from Methodists. If you have any specific questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

Jonathan

I see where Wesley is going with this and it makes sense. There is a definite conflict between salvation by faith and predestination, both of which I believe in, but not in the sense of a doctrine of predestination mde by men. What Wesley is saying is that once one has gained faith, then he is called or chosen, and that faith is garnered of free will, and therefore the idea of being destined as a Christian comes of choice first, and then of the Spirit. It makes sense but I want to think about it a little more. Thanks for the link, that helped a lot.

Why not ask Wesley himself?

John Wesley's sermon "On Predestination" (http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-058.stm)

As you sort through this, keep in mind that the doctrine of predestination is that God has chosen certain people to go to heaven. If God has not chosen you to go to heaven, under this doctrine, then you will not, no matter WHAT you do.

There is also a doctrine of "double predestination", that God chooses not only who goes to heaven, but also who goes to hell. Wesley finds this ridiculous, claiming that there can be no doctrine of predestination that isn't a doctrine of double predestination, for anyone not going to heaven, Wesley asserts, goes to hell.

I see what you are saying. It makes sense that if you are chosen for no virtue of yourself, then those condmned are condmned for the same lack of reason. That definitely doesn't work, there is plenty of Scripture that denies that. I'll have to read a bit more and see if anything else strikes me in that Wesley article, and then read the sections that deal with being destined in Scripture.

[SowTheWord]

You might want to read "The Character of a Methodist" by John Wesley. Due to my limited posts, the site is limiting me from posting a link; therefore, probably much to your chagrin, you will be getting most of the text. Another restriction seems to be word count; therefore, I will omit the end of this article. To get the full text, you may want to google.

Grace and Peace.

Soli Deo Gloria!


The Character of a Methodist

by John Wesley

Not as though I had already attained.
TO THE READER
1. SINCE the name first came abroad into the world, many have been at a loss to know what a Methodist is; what are the principles and the practice of those who are commonly called by that name; and what the distinguishing marks of this sect, "which is everywhere spoken against."
2. And it being generally believed, that I was able to give the clearest account of these things, (as having been one of the first to whom that name was given, and the person by whom the rest were supposed to be directed,) I have been called upon, in all manner of ways, and with the utmost earnestness, so to do. I yield at last to the continued importunity both of friends and enemies; and do now give the clearest account I can, in the presence of the Lord and Judge of heaven and earth, of the principles and practice whereby those who are called Methodists are distinguished from other men.
3. I say those who are called Methodists; for, let it be well observed, that this is not a name which they take to themselves, but one fixed upon them by way of reproach, without their approbation or consent. It was first given to three or four young men at Oxford, by a student of Christ Church; either in allusion to the ancient sect of Physicians so called, from their teaching, that almost all diseases might be cured by a specific method of diet and exercise, or from their observing a more regular method of study and behaviour than was usual with those of their age and station.
4. I should rejoice (so little ambitious am I to be at the head of any sect or party) if the very name might never be mentioned more, but be buried in eternal oblivion. But if that cannot be, at least let those who will use it, know the meaning of the word they use. Let us not always be fighting in the dark. Come, and let us look one another in the face. And perhaps some of you who hate what I am called, may love what I am by the grace of God; or rather, what "I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

The Character of a Methodist

1. THE distinguishing marks of a Methodist are not his opinions of any sort. His assenting to this or that scheme of religion, his embracing any particular set of notions, his espousing the judgment of one man or of another, are all quite wide of the point. Whosoever, therefore, imagines that a Methodist is a man of such or such an opinion, is grossly ignorant of the whole affair; he mistakes the truth totally. We believe, indeed, that "all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God;" and herein we are distinguished from Jews, Turks, and Infidels. We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule both of Christian faith and practice; and herein we are fundamentally distinguished from those of the Romish Church. We believe Christ to be the eternal, supreme God; and herein we are distinguished from the Socinians and Arians. But as to all opinions which do not strike at the root of Christianity, we think and let think. So that whatsoever they are, whether right or wrong, they are no distinguishing marks of a Methodist.
2. Neither are words or phrases of any sort. We do not place our religion, or any part of it, in being attached to any peculiar mode of speaking, any quaint or uncommon set of expressions. The most obvious, easy, common words, wherein our meaning can be conveyed, we prefer before others, both on ordinary occasions, and when we speak of the things of God. We never, therefore, willingly or designedly, deviate from the most usual way of speaking; unless when we express scripture truths in scripture words, which, we presume, no Christian will condemn. Neither do we affect to use any particular expressions of Scripture more frequently than others, unless they are such as are more frequently used by the inspired writers themselves. So that it is as gross an error, to place the marks of a Methodist in his words, as in opinions of any sort.
3. Nor do we desire to be distinguished by actions, customs, or usages, of an indifferent nature. Our religion does not lie in doing what God has not enjoined, or abstaining from what he hath not forbidden. It does not lie in the form of our apparel, in the posture of our body, or the covering of our heads; nor yet in abstaining from marriage, or from meats and drinks, which are all good if received with thanksgiving. Therefore, neither will any man, who knows whereof he affirms, fix the mark of a Methodist here, -- in any actions or customs purely indifferent, undetermined by the word of God.
4. Nor, lastly, is he distinguished by laying the whole stress of religion on any single part of it. If you say, "Yes, he is; for he thinks 'we are saved by faith alone:'" I answer, You do not understand the terms. By salvation he means holiness of heart and life. And this he affirms to spring from true faith alone. Can even a nominal Christian deny it? Is this placing a part of religion for the whole? "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law." We do not place the whole of religion (as too many do, God knoweth) either in doing no harm, or in doing good, or in using the ordinances of God. No, not in all of them together; wherein we know by experience a man may labour many years, and at the end have no religion at all, no more than he had at the beginning. Much less in any one of these; or, it may be, in a scrap of one of them: Like her who fancies herself a virtuous woman, only because she is not a prostitute; or him who dreams he is an honest man, merely because he does not rob or steal. May the Lord God of my fathers preserve me from such a poor, starved religion as this! Were this the mark of a Methodist, I would sooner choose to be a sincere Jew, Turk, or Pagan.
5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has "the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him;" one who "loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"
6. He is therefore happy in God, yea, always happy, as having in him "a well of water springing up into everlasting life," and overflowing his soul with peace and joy. "Perfect love" having now "cast out fear," he "rejoices evermore." He "rejoices in the Lord always," even "in God his Saviour;" and in the Father, "through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom he hath now received the atonement." "Having" found "redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of his sins," he cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks back on the horrible pit out of which he is delivered; when he sees "all his transgressions blotted out as a cloud, and his iniquities as a thick cloud." He cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks on the state wherein he now is; "being justified freely, and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." For "he that believeth, hath the witness" of this "in himself;" being now the son of God by faith. "Because he is a son, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into his heart, crying, Abba, Father!" And "the Spirit itself beareth witness with his spirit, that he is a child of God." He rejoiceth also, whenever he looks forward, "in hope of the glory that shall be revealed;" yea, this his joy is full, and all his bones cry out, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his abundant mercy, hath begotten me again to a living hope -- of an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for me!"

[7-16 are omitted due to word count restrictions ]

17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And whosoever is what I preach, (let him be called what he will, for names change not the nature of things,) he is a Christian, not in name only, but in heart and in life. He is inwardly and outwardly conformed to the will of God, as revealed in the written word. He thinks, speaks, and lives, according to the method laid down in the revelation of Jesus Christ. His soul is renewed after the image of God, in righteousness and in all true holiness. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked.
18. By these marks, by these fruits of a living faith, do we labour to distinguish ourselves from the unbelieving world from all those whose minds or lives are not according to the Gospel of Christ. But from real Christians, of whatsoever denomination they be, we earnestly desire not to be distinguished at all, not from any who sincerely follow after what they know they have not yet attained. No: "Whosoever doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." And I beseech you, brethren, by the mercies of God, that we be in no wise divided among ourselves. Is thy heart right, as my heart is with thine? I ask no farther question. If it be, give me thy hand. For opinions, or terms, let us not destroy the work of God. Dost thou love and serve God? It is enough. I give thee the right hand of fellowship. If there be any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies; let us strive together for the faith of the Gospel; walking worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called; with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; remembering, there is one body, and one Spirit, even as we are called with one hope of our calling; "one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

[Savate]

Thanks SowtheWord,

I can see from this part...

"We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule both of Christian faith and practice;...."

..why the Confessional Movement came to be in the UMC.

[SowTheWord]

"..why the Confessional Movement came to be in the UMC."


I see you are not that new to the UMC :) .

Grace and Peace.

[elsbeth]

Why not ask Wesley himself?

John Wesley's sermon "On Predestination" (http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-058.stm)
THANK YOU! I got involved in another thread which devolved into predestination. I knew I didn't believe the Calvinist view, but couldn't really say why except that "God just doesn't treat people like that". I was raised Methodist, and reading the link I kept saying to myself "yes, that's what I believe!"

[JoshuaCh1v9]

Tea:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[cavell]

A very informative thread Jonahan. I too enjoyed reading about the Methodist structure.

Thankyou for posting that

[onmybelief]

There is also Arminianism that Methodists believe in

Look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminian

[Savate]

There is also Arminianism that Methodists believe in

Look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminian
Yowza!

[onmybelief]

Yowza!
Is that an approval of the article or a disapproval?

I'm sorry if it is a disapproval and I upset you.

[tpony298]

I also, appreciate Jonathan's post. I actually had the same question as the OP, and was happy to see this thread.
As a self-described "geek", I wonder if Jonathan has that essay in an easily emailed format on his computer? <hint, hint> ;)
I am also seeking Information...I have just relocated, am disabled, but I have found a church that is handicappped accessable and is very close to my huome...It is a United methodist...I recieved their welcome letter and it appears to be what i grew up with. As a child I belonged to the Church of God who used a lot of John Westley teachings.

Then as an adult I wandered around a lot...but seem to be heading for home, tradition wise.

I would be interested in more information too

Joyce

[Savate]

Is that an approval of the article or a disapproval?

I'm sorry if it is a disapproval and I upset you.
No...more like "Eureka!" more information!

I'm just hungry for all kinds of information, thanks!

[onmybelief]

You are quite welcome.

I, like you, am an information junkie; I really eat this kind of stuff up.