I am tired of being critical of the Church

[seanHayden]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice

[dancingwithhim]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice
I use to have the same problem. I think that it was because of my past hurts. There is no perfect church out there. I would pray and ask the Lord for His direction and peace. (He did this for me) Ask the Lord that when you go to a church and you know that He is wanting you there that you would feel at home. You would know that it was where He wants you to be. Also, be open because He may send you to a place that might feel a little uncomfortable. Then, when you begin to become critical (I have been there) ask the Lord what He desires of that church. Then, begin to pray for the church concerning His will and direction and what He would want you to do or say, if anything.
I was placed at a church where everytime that I went I prayed, "God why on earth do you have me here." His reply was, "So that you can pray for this place." So, as I began to seek the Lord, He showed me His desire for the church. Before long things began to go in His direction.

[Elderone]

Before long things began to go in His direction.That is the secret. Pray God will guide you as He will not let you down as our instincts often do.

1Th 5:24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.iHs

[If Not For Grace]

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything


That's what I did, and so far so good.

PS. I know many a member who has a "core"
difference of opinion on doctrine, but we must remember churches split over as little as one word, and we talk about them like dirty dogs for being unable to agree on every detail of everything. We must remember that saying "the only man who was perfect was crucified for it". The churches of Brick and Mortar contain imperfect humans.

GOOD for you on this post. We should be here to help not to condemn.

[Rick Otto]

Sometimes, if only briefly(an hr or 2 Sunday AM), The borders of The Kingdom are overlapped by Churchianity.
It tries everything it can, even not trying, to look, smell, taste, & feel like The Kingdom, but it's only Churchianity.
Some are in full regalia, some plain & simple, but you will be disappointed if you "go looking" for Jesus.
Ya gotta bring Him with ya.

[seanHayden]

Sometimes, if only briefly(an hr or 2 Sunday AM), The borders of The Kingdom are overlapped by Churchianity.
It tries everything it can, even not trying, to look, smell, taste, & feel like The Kingdom, but it's only Churchianity.
Some are in full regalia, some plain & simple, but you will be disappointed if you "go looking" for Jesus.
Ya gotta bring Him with ya.
Maybe so, but even Jesus went to the Synagogue. What is a Christian life without fellowship with other Christians? Maybe a missionaries life, but we aren’t all called to be missionaries…

[If Not For Grace]

but you will be disappointed if you "go looking" for Jesus.
Ya gotta bring Him with ya.

That may be the way it is, but it's not the way it should be. The "unchurched" should be able to walk in,
be welcomed, and presented basic gospel, and see a family atmosphere that any person seeking such would be happy to find.

It should be like a person who likes books
walking into a major university library. The reaction should be: Wow, look at this, how nice what a wonderful place, I'm going home and tell my friends....

[Rick Otto]

I don't require a place, or even family friendliness.
The Gospel is already that.
Jesus went to the synagogue, but He didn't just take a seat and listen.
I like a nice place with a nice atmosphere as well as the next, but the most impressive thing, the thing I see as worth telling friends about, is the gospel.

[Harlan Norris]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice
The church was made for man not man for the church. I've been seeking a church for some time now. If a church preaches a false doctrin or causes the parishoners to err,why go there. You'll just find yourself doing what you know is wrong. I say keep looking. The perfect church does not exist.However,there's bound to be one out there that meets your needs without causing you to practice a false gospel.

[flaglady]

I agree with all that has been said so far - would like to add, however, that old comment of Ab Lincoln's "you can please some of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time"!

[seanHayden]

I don't require a place, or even family friendliness.
The Gospel is already that.
Jesus went to the synagogue, but He didn't just take a seat and listen.
I like a nice place with a nice atmosphere as well as the next, but the most impressive thing, the thing I see as worth telling friends about, is the gospel.
I agree, I don't need a place.

I do however wan't fellowship with other Christians.

I don't hang out with Christians, I haven't in a long time, don't have a chance to talk about the Gospel, discuss scripture etc. with other Christians--other then what I do online.

Maybe its not as important as I make it out to be. Maybe I could just continue to study at home, drop a line online every now and then, etc. But, for some odd reason, I really don't think that is what Jesus had in mind for His followers.

[progressivegal]

The whole "looking for Jesus" thing reminds me of when I was younger and at church for choir practice. This little kid was walking around the sactuary yelling "Hello!" or something like that, and his mom, who was standing by us, turned tot eh other mom and said "he's looking for God". I think alot of parents tend to refer to the church as "God's house" to their kids, as in "This is God's house, we don't hit our sister over the head with the hymnal".
No real point to this, except that while I do think we can encouter God in a church, in the hearts and by the genuine love that can be shown to us by followers of Jesus, but I don't think we HAVE to go to church or anywhere, to "find God". Jesus said the Kingdom of God is Within us.

[seanHayden]

Not trying to find God in a church.

[zhilan]

Have you tried talking to a priest? Maybe some of the problem you have would be resolved.

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Often I find myself too content or comfortable to hear God clearly. Someties it takes a drastic act of impoverishment on my behalf to restore my factory settings and see God clearly again.

I do not think it is "blessings" that make me closer to God, it is intimate experience of my overwhelming lack that shunts my conciousness back round to Gods way of being. Often, we are just plain too well-provided for.

[flaglady]

I couldn't agree with you more, FLANDIDLYANDERS!

I have a friend who regularly goes to Africa on mission trips and she sees wonderful examples of conversions and healings. Real healings of the blind and crippled, not just 'oh, I'm feeling better!'. Having heard her testimonies about her experiences, one thing becomes crystal clear - these people in Africa have nothing and their only hope is Jesus. In their circumstances they have to lean on the Lord and because their dependence is absolute, their faith is therefore profound so they see miracles galore.

And us - we are spoilt and much too comfy and content, so we think that we are powerful and able to dictate and control our lives. And because we get so laissez faire and egocentric, we don't really expect to see God. Oh, we'd like to see Him but we don't expect to. Big difference.

[Elderone]

Maybe its not as important as I make it out to be. Maybe I could just continue to study at home, drop a line online every now and then, etc. But, for some odd reason, I really don't think that is what Jesus had in mind for His followers.It is important and here is what God has to say about it:

(Hebrews 10:25 KJV) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

assembling isa broad loose term. seeking jesus in others in order to encourage and be encouraged is always necissary.

[Elderone]

Here is what it means in this case:

episunagōgē
ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay'
From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): - assembling (gathering) together.
Thus staying home alone reading the Bible and not assembling with others isn't what God requires of us.

[Rick Otto]

Don't I see you hangin' out in Semper Reformanda?:cool:

[Elderone]

Yo Elder1,...

Don't I see you hangin' out in Semper Reformanda?:cool:
Ohhh Ohhh, BUSTED...............:blush: :doh:

Thought I would see what is doing in some of the other forums..

And how are you these days Rick? I see your still getting them with the succinct, sharp, keen posts! ;)

[MrJim]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice

I am and have been in your shoes and I've often said that "it shouldn't have to be this hard". But something I've learned is that it is more important to be the church than go to "church".

As long as "church" is seen as the gathering on Sunday instead of the Body of Christ in action then it will always be little more than a social religious group. Gathering for worship on Sunday is great, just don't mistake is as "church"--it's worship.

An interesting link and another point of view here (http://www.ptmin.org/articles.htm). I don't attend a home church but this guy has some fascinating articles that gives a different perspective on what church is all about. His books are pretty good too.

Another perspective is found here (http://scrollpublishing.com/store/index.html). It's an anabaptist perspective, but this guy started as a baptist, got interested in anabaptists, went the ancient church route via anglican-even became an ordained priest-but is now with a plain mennonite congregation.

[FollowingJesus]

That may be the way it is, but it's not the way it should be. The "unchurched" should be able to walk in,
be welcomed, and presented basic gospel, and see a family atmosphere that any person seeking such would be happy to find.

It should be like a person who likes books
walking into a major university library. The reaction should be: Wow, look at this, how nice what a wonderful place, I'm going home and tell my friends....

Very profound.

[Eusebios]

sean,
I would encourage you to visit The Ancient Way to ask any questions you have concerning Eastern Orthodoxy. And as someone else already said, speaking with a local priest about your concerns is also a good idea.
I was at the same place you were 7-10 years ago, and the journey home was frought with some interesting and difficult times, but worth it.
In Xp,
Eusebios
:bow:

[jsimms615]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice
Depends on what the issue is. If it is an important doctrinal issue that you have a problem with the church about then I would keep looking. If it is an issue about church polity or program then I would say you need to settle.

[joyfulthanks]

I don't agree with any single church or denomination 100%. The only way I could mentally process the multitude of groups out there who claim to be the best representation of Christianity was this: I had to ask myself "What is the gospel, and how does God command us to respond to it?"

For me, accuracy in teaching those two things are the only two completely non-negotiable issues. Pretty much everthing else I can probably deal with in one way or another.

Jesus also said that we would know false teachers by their fruit. So I guess in addition to looking for the true gospel, I also look for the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, etc. in evidence in the lives of the congregation.

I think if you find a place where they get those two things straight, pretty much everything else will work itself out.

But then again, what do I know?

-Grace

[Rick Otto]

mybe you need to look at it practicaly instead of idealisticaly.

Which of the congregtions on the menu will best allow your expression of your own God-given gifts & talents(?).

Still, not an easy question to answer, but it directly addresses your needs, unless your need is simply a feeling of belonging. If that's the case, settle for the one that makes the strongest claim(s) of ownership. But that sounds more like social need than a spiritual one (to me).

Here's hoping you find what you need!:)

[ctay]

You could always check out a Lutheran church. :)

One thing is to pray and ask God for guidance. Check out some other denominations or just stay where your at and overlook some of these things.

There is this lady at my church that grew up Catholic. She said she started going to bible study and she started questioning some of the things the Catholic church does. She said she went and talked to a priest. She said the priest told her if she was questioning it, to go follow her heart. She ended up in a Lutheran church

[WaterandSun]

I think you guys are all on the right track - go where you feel comfy.

Otherwise, you cant do what you want.

:crossrc:Pray!

[progressivegal]

You could always check out a Lutheran church. :)

One thing is to pray and ask God for guidance. Check out some other denominations or just stay where your at and overlook some of these things.

There is this lady at my church that grew up Catholic. She said she started going to bible study and she started questioning some of the things the Catholic church does. She said she went and talked to a priest. She said the priest told her if she was questioning it, to go follow her heart. She ended up in a Lutheran church
Priests tend to be cool like that.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Anyone can yank a Greek word out of Strong's concordance. Doesn't mean squat, really. Certainly does not mean one understands a passage of scripture better than someone else. Words are still words -- symbolic encodings of meaning and subject to a variety of angles of conceptualization and interpretation. There is no such thing as literary absolutism; it is a chimera.

Assembling yourselves together means just that. It doesn't specify how, or when, or in what form; it only specifies being in the company of others versus being isolated. Period. Being in the company of others can occur here in cyberspace as easily and fruitfully as it can happen in the flesh. Sometimes even moreso, because in cyberspace we can fellowship without subtle prejudices about gender, ethnicity, social-class, etc. and the cues that trigger them, getting in the way; we are not constrained by geographical limitations nor, in some cases, by limitations on time. (For example as a web developer by trade I can easily fellowship on the web while getting my work done; I don't have to wait for "downtime" unless I have a really heavy workload, etc.) Also on forums there are no time constraints because the "now" in which someone posts becomes the "now" for the reader at the moment he reads the post.

So let's not be too hasty to jump to conclusions about what should be included or excluded from the possibilities here. AND let's not fall into the folly of thinking yanking out a Greek word means I understand the text better than anyone else and everyone else must therefore bow to my judgment. I once tussled with a man on another forum who was very "full of himself" in this regard, and laboring under the delusion that having studied Koine, he alone was qualified among all others to interpret scripture because he "KNEW" the "ABSOLUTE MEANING" of every word from the original tongue. Well guess what. Every language is still using words, and the use of words still involves the use of the brain to form associations and read meanings into and out of those words. Switching languages doesn't mean you eliminate personal subjectivity from the equation, so don't ever think going to the Greek or Hebrew is a workaround for that, cuz it ain't.

Not an accusation on Elderone -- just a caveat in general coming from another experience I had elsewhere. ;)

[limited10]

I agree, "seek first the kingdom.." God knows your heart. No church is perfect, and no man is perfect. Seek to please the Lord and He'll do the rest!

[Krysstian]

I want to become a member of a congregation, to have fellowship with believers, have a place in worship etc.

But, I have become trapped.

For example, I really like the Orthodox Church, but I have very serious inhibitions toward some of the practices. So, while I really think the Orthodox Church has a lot going for it, I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious. This is true of the RCC, is there any better Church then these two when it comes to discipleship, to discipline, unity etc? Yet, I can’t become attached to either without some serious conflicts. Same problem with every protestant church I can think of.

This is nonsense! I don’t want to stand on the sidelines pretending I can judge the Church. I can’t do the job of Christ, the Church is His and I need to get in! I am in, but I need to belong to a congregation to—tired of being un-churched.

So, should I just accept that I might not agree with everything now and just jump in? I don’t see any alternative.

Thanks for any advice
Why do you focus on what the church is doing and not just the word of God...just curious?

[sneezingleopard]

I imagine much of the new testament would never have benn written if it wasn't for disagreements in church. But no matter how many disagreements they had, they would allways meet together to break bread, to comune with one another and to pray and discuss the teaching of the apostles as we are told in acts 2:42-47. What if Paul had decided that it was too hard for him to go to the temple because he disagreed with what was being said? what if he just went off on his own to study the bible (which they didn't have). I think we need to be in comunion because we are sinfull and make mistakes constantly. we need help and the purpose of the church is to be a family thathelps one another. We are each parts of the one body and as such we must work together to accomplish a task as easy as walking across the floor.
My advice to you is to get involved with the rest of the body and you can't go wrong ,if you are paying attention to Chris'ts promting spirit who leads us. get involved with any church for now, you can figure out the rest later. i will tell you one thing though, you can't truely figure out if the shoe fits unless you put it on. the tag just doesn't allways do the trick.
We must take the plank from our eye and help take out splinters from others eyes while accepting a brothers help with our own splinters.Christ will lead you to himself our job is to trust that he will.
In Chrsit,
Matthew

[Koey]

...I have very serious inhibitions ... I can’t ignore some things that bite at my conscious...
I have the exact same problem, no "used to" about it. I don't believe anyone who says they "used to" have that problem, unless they've had a lobotomy. We all have that tendency. It's part and parcel of who we are. It's perhaps more of a problem for firstborn perfectionists and those with a natural analytical mind.

We cannot deny ourselves and simply avoid all analysis or desires for perfection, but we can turn it to the positive, towards the things we can change, including ourselves.

I find that I am less judgmental of others' when I realize two things:

Churches naturally tend towards outward conformity, but
I don't have to conform in areas where it violates my faith, nor do I need to allow others to judge me.Look around to see how others handle their conflicts of conscience. You may eventually get to know several who may not pray to Mary in private, for instance, or who do not wholeheartedly participate in other things, but not discuss it in public, to avoid offending others.

Look upon church as the group of people with whom you are comfortable fellowshipping, because they hold many similar values to you. Don't think that you need to become a clone. Keep your individuality and don't violate your conscience for the sake of outward conformity, nor allow yourself the same tendency towards others.

In other words, allow the Holy Spirit to lead others, and don't feel like you need to be pressured into mindless conformity or coerce others to conform to your individual expression of faith.