Christian Denominations Which Stress Seperation of Church and State.

[catlover]

Anyone know?

I am reasonably certain Anabaptists and Adventists stress this point, but are there anymore denominations which do as well?

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Why stress it? Just dont mix em. period.

[givengrace]

Anyone know?

I am reasonably certain Anabaptists and Adventists stress this point, but are there anymore denominations which do as well?
I hope you do know this Separation of Church and State isn't a part of the Declaration. It's just from a speech.
My husband knows more about it than me but It sure makes him upset when people bring it up.

[catlover]

I hope you do know this Separation of Church and State isn't a part of the Declaration. It's just from a speech.
My husband knows more about it than me but It sure makes him upset when people bring it up.

Yes, the term is "freedom from religion". Thankfully America is not a theocracy, yet.

Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

[Rick Otto]

but
Given,
I am aware of a letter by Jefferson being over-valued in this regard, but The Constitution does establish a seperation of a sort, establishing tax-exempt status, by saying the congress can make no laws establishing (& thus regulating as well) religion.

I also know that the reason many churches contractualy exchange this right for the privilige of becoming a tax-free CORPORATION, is because corporations enjoy limited liability (by the State, not God). And all "Ceasar" asks for, in return for his protection, is that you say nothing in opposition to "Public" (government) Policy.

So the churches are already way more in bed with the govt. than anyone is either aware of, or willing to admit.

[catlover]

So the churches are already way more in bed with the govt. than anyone is either aware of, or willing to admit.


Frightening isn't it?

[Rick Otto]

what is more shocking is the amount of naivete & apathy about it.

But again, what can you expect? Owning property & hiring employees was not a part of the original vision as I read The Book. All sorts of agendas abound when property & life-style maintenance get thrown into, or grafted onto basic "body" function, and institutional authority trumps scriptural authority.
I love what the reformers accomplished in theology, but I opine they left ecclesiology too corrupted.

[InDeoHonorium2]

I am not so sure aout all of the Anabaptists, many of them want to live seperatley but want their rights to do so protected, and the only way for tht to happen is to live in a country like America where freedom of religion is guaranteed.

I have met many individauals, unfortunatly, who talk about how much better the country would be if America were a theocracy instead.

I usually tell them to go live in Iran or Vatican city for a year or two and see how much they like it after that....
Most of the people I have heard this from are from extreme fundamentalist cults (ie church of christ, independant Bible Neo Pentocostal etc)
I don't know that they speak as a congregational ideal but rather as a personal one.
They also want THEIR religion to be the head of this theocracy. That is, as I was told, if you don't agree to live under the rules, say , of ABC Church of Christ, then you will be deported or shot......
The thought of living in a theocracy is nothing short of reprehensible to me. It was years ago and far away that I heard people talk about such things, if I ever heard someone doing so now I'd have them reported as potential terrorists and make the country and religion a little better off as a result....

[QuantaCura]

The Catholic Church professes separation of Church and State, but not the modern secular version. In a very basic nutshell, we believe there are two spheres of authority--one governed by the Church and one by the state. Neither has authority over the other. King Henry VIII and the current Chinese government are examples of states that violated this principle. The Church could violate this principle by punishing criminals, enacting legislation, creating economic policy, levying taxes for public works etc., etc.

That being said, the two are related. Both the Church and state are endowed with authority by the same source--God (see Rom. 13). This means both are subject to God and that neither have the authority to act outside the authority they have been given by God. We give to God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's, but that does not exempt Caesar from his obligation to give God His rightful due. Jesus Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. The rule of our "king" must be consonant with the rule of Christ. The state cannot violate our God-given rights (one of which is the right to come to His one true religion of our own free will without coercion from the state; this idea ensures religious freedom within reason; we shouldn't allow Aztecs, for example, to freely practice their religion of child sacrifice). Likewise, just because we choose democratically who will weild the authority, the authority still comes from God alone.

So there is separation of Church and State, but there should be no separation of Truth and State.

[QuantaCura]

Goverment always acts based on some ideology or philosophy, why not the true one? :)

[catlover]

Goverment always acts based on some ideology or philosophy, why not the true one? :)

No, thank-you, women should be able to have access to reproductive medical care:artificial birth control etc. Under the theocracy you are suggesting that is not possible.

That is not to say there are no positive aspects to The Roman Catholic faith, there some positive aspects, but the point that it's theology interferes with medical care makes it not for me.

[QuantaCura]

No, thank-you, women should be able to have access to reproductive medical care:artificial birth control etc. Under the theocracy you are suggesting that is not possible.

That is not to say there are no positive aspects to The Roman Catholic faith, there some positive aspects, but the point that it's theology interferes with medical care makes it not for me.

Of course, I figured the very basic nutshell would be insufficient :D . There is also the principle of toleration in the government of states that are pluralistic. Although I am not an expert in this field and I don't feel like writing a treatise on toleration right now:P , my gut instinct is that given the current makeup of society, the use of most forms of contraception would fall under this priniciple. But in general, governments have to draw the line somewhere. There's always going to be somebody who doesn't like where its drawn.

Anyway, this is all theoretical--we aren't going to see a ruling party of devout Catholics anytime soon :holy:

But, I do think it is interesting that St. Paul calls the pagan rulers of his time ministers of God. As Jesus said, to whom much is given, much will be demanded. Just as St. John Chrysostom noted that Hell is probably paved with the skulls of bishops who did not exercise their authority as they should have, rulers and those repsonsible for governance are probably judged to a similar standard as well. I don't know if I could handle that reponsibility. I have a tough enough time trying to figure out how to vote justly. :eek:

[catlover]

I have a tough enough time trying to figure out how to vote justly. :eek:

It's difficult. I may skip voting on November 7.

[MrJim]

I am not so sure aout all of the Anabaptists, many of them want to live seperatley but want their rights to do so protected, and the only way for tht to happen is to live in a country like America where freedom of religion is guaranteed.


Anabaptists like that don't represent the historical position. There are anabaptists represented all around the world living in conditions that are not receptive to the gospel and they continue to let their light shine regardless of the cost.

[ttreg]

Anyone know?

I am reasonably certain Anabaptists and Adventists stress this point, but are there anymore denominations which do as well?
Uhh like you already say Adventist...If you remeber from another thread I certainly believe in seperation of church and state.

[catlover]

Uhh like you already say Adventist...If you remeber from another thread I certainly believe in seperation of church and state.

I think Adventist are right on the money on that matter. If one looks at the theocracies around the world, one can see why religion and politics should not mix.