Where is Flynmonkie?

[rkymtnjesusfreak]

I haven't been on much lately (we had a move and I started a new homeschool year with my kiddo's!) and have just been back on and do not see any posts by Flymonkie. I used to enjoy reading her posts, did she leave the forums?

[Andyman_1970]

She's been on other denominational forums...........

[newbeliever02072005]

I think she left us. Doesn't anyone know how to get in touch with her via email?

[christian73]

I haven't been on much lately (we had a move and I started a new homeschool year with my kiddo's!) and have just been back on and do not see any posts by Flymonkie. I used to enjoy reading her posts, did she leave the forums?
I miss her posts too. Somebody ask her to come back.

[JPPT1974]

I hope that she is ok
And that she is just taking a break!

[DeaconDean]

At one time she was involved with some heavy duty college work. Perhaps she is involved with that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Flynmonkie]

I haven't been on much lately (we had a move and I started a new homeschool year with my kiddo's!) and have just been back on and do not see any posts by Flymonkie. I used to enjoy reading her posts, did she leave the forums?

Hi!:wave: :hug:
SO glad to hear from you! It could not have come at a better time.:thumbsup: Seriously, there are days such as this that I know God has “got my back.” Yes, I have been away for a while. I am really consumed with my courses this semester. Side note, you know I believed the Bible in faith that if you prayed for knowledge, God bestows it abundantly, right now I am thinking – take it back, TAKE IT BACK! Some days I really feel ignorance is bliss.:sigh:

Actually, I had just walked in from a lecture dealing in my BioEthics with Richard Dawkins, entitled ‘The God Delusion” named after his latest book. There I sat on the second row, within feet of this man, literally face to face for two hours -> that labels religion, or faith in God as a “psychological disproportion,” then goes on to say that it is an “inherited disproportion,” (genetic) furthermore that the study of Theology is compared to the study of “fairies.” Another indictment to the Christian faithful is the boasting we are trying to teach “the Stork theory” right along side the “pregnancy” theory.” That we wish to have an Armageddon, because we will all get to God quicker. :mad:

What kills me is the man spoke out of both sides of his mouth; don’t extremists always tend to do this? ON one hand, he claims there is no such thing as faith, however, what exactly do you call what it is a scientist does when searching for an answer between A result and B result. Would it not be a “faith” that nothing would go wrong with the experiment, in addition, what if they were working towards a “cure” for cancer, would this not be considered a hope to an end of a deadly disease? If not, why do it? What is the motivating factor of such things? As I am sure you are aware of my distain for any extremist belief or assertion either direction, you can only imagine my mood after this. (Actually, I am genuinely surprised Mr. Phelps and his clan did not show up, that would have been the cherry on top of a frightful waste of my evening) I believe this is a good example of what comes from all this pushing of extremist beliefs in the religious sector on others. I think God covered this in many verses that pretty much tell us to “shake the dust” and “don’t judge in this manner.”

The lecture series is a “good will” effort of sorts for KU to foster communication with the community in response to the issues that arose when they initiated a class on Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies with Professor Paul Mirecki that failed miserably. He was attacked, beaten, during this controversy. Here is a link to the issue:
http://www.studlife.com/media/storage/paper337/news/2006/01/20/News/Kus-Intelligent.Design.Course.Is.Cancelled-1478835.shtml?norewrite200610170328&sourcedomain=www.studlife.com

Here is a bit more information on the lecture series itself if you are interested. The next lecture is Scott Behe, I missed Oz Guinness. I am looking forward to the final summit with all corners of the ring represented.
http://www.news.ku.edu/2006/july/31/difficultdialogues.shtml

November 2 Missouri is hoping to pass a Bill that would permit stem cell research I am learning about this whole process. This is one of many lectures, and honestly the whole gamut is covered. From DNA, Genes, Epigenetics, Biology, Psychology, Theology, Philosophy, Ethics, Intelligent Design, (creationism), Evolution, Stem Cell Research, Assisted Suicide etc.. I really have a full plate in this one class alone; of course I am in a full load this semester anyway. I am feeling very alone because no one else in the class (admittedly) claims Christianity or any religious belief at this point, but me. Might as well paint a target on my forehead!
:doh:

I have been posting previously in the Liberal forum; I am still a member of a Baptist church at this time. However, I do not understand why I am encouraged to study, yet when I ask hard questions, I am labeled liberal, heathen, Gnostic, and the like. So I have pretty much shied away from here, and planning on discussing issues with our pastor in the near future, I believe I am being called away from the church (building). I love my Baptist traditions, however, I do not feel a sense of oneness or unity, and have not in such a very long time, it almost seems something I have been struggling with, especially being a woman in this setting. Needless to say, my studies are taking me beyond the traditional Baptist faith at this time. Such as studying all the carbon dated texts, and the deuterocanicals, or as protestants call the Apocrypha. Actually, the suggested study of these came from several well known Baptist pastors, including John MacArthur, who states that it is a good idea to read and understand them, it gives a good indication of the time, but of course with discernment. This is exactly what I plan to do.. But it seems there are limitations set in certain areas of the Baptist faith, limitations I cannot continue to live with especially, the “derogatory” attitudes to those whom do view all opposing viewpoints. I feel it has limited my growth, or will. So I have lain low, I feel strongly in my heart I am doing what is right at this time. I believe and have faith that God will keep me in check during the quest for understanding and knowledge. I truly feel for some reason He has laid this in front of me, I take it day by day, keeping my eye on Him.

So anyway, these are some of the things going on with me now.. If you don’t see me around always feel free to PM! I love to hear from you; and how all of you are doing, I have kept up with many of you for several years now, I still consider you "friends" and I do like knowing how things are going! Actually, situations such as tonight the message could not have come at a better time! Lifts my spirits!:hug: Thank you!:hug:

BTW, here is an you tube video with Richard Dawkins, it is a good face to face with him regarding this book and will give you a teensy bit of what I dealt with this evening. Do not be disillusioned, he is not as nice as he comes across here (for an atheist), He is quite pointed in his remarks. Very insulting. Nor does he truly leave a door open with the claim of “I am almost certain God does not exist, of course I cannot prove it.” It seems to be a ploy to further the thought in his touring lecture by saying, “Of course I cannot prove fairies don’t exist either” which brought a whelp of laughter from the audience.:( I actually feel sorry for this man of such Brilliance in science, he almost certainly needs to stay away from philosophy or theology concepts; to this it is obvious he is ill qualified.


"Jeremy Paxman interviews Professor Dawkins as part of the Newsnight book club"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWL1ZMH3-54

Luckily I sat between two older men, Berkley professors (PHD), and other well qualified - that seemed to empathize with my plight and would at least divulge me in profitable discussion. I am sure there are very few of those that were in attendance gauging the reactions in the audience. It was a packed house.

SO what is new around here? Has the drama died down? There just might be a correlation to that and my visits huh?;)

[Andyman_1970]

It's nice to see you on here again sis...........I'm excited to hear what you're planning on studying stuff like the Apocrypha...........that's totally cool.

I'm interested to hear your take on the stem cell thing............PM me if you'd like to discuss.

Shalom............

[rkymtnjesusfreak]

Welcome back to this corner of the forum. It is nice to see a post from you. We (my DH and I) are also in a position of studying and questioning at the present time. Since we were saved, we have held to a dispensational view, although until the last couple of years I can honestly say that I did not realize it was an actual theological system that I had been taught. We always found churches that the preacher just without fear or apology preached the Word without straying. We are now at a crossroads, it seems. Our church is looking for a pastor as our pastor was called to a church in TX. He was a man of God who always taught the Truth. We have traditionally attended SBC churches, but when we moved back to KS from CO, we did not find a SBC we liked so we joined an independent Bible church stictly because of the teaching coming from the pulpit. As the search for a new pastor began, it came to light that it is a RIGIDLY dispensational church (our former pastor was not however, which is ironic!). There are those (like my DH and I) that wonder why must we label our church with a theological system as part of our church doctrine. Anyway, we are finding through much study and prayer, that we really aren't strict dispensationalists after all. Some of it just doesn't jive for us. I really don't think that we can label ourselves at all exactly. The only label I am taking on is that I am a blood bought, plucked out of my sin, undeserving child of the King. For that label I am grateful! Anyway, we had in a pastor candidate who was exceptional. He was undoubtedly a man of God, preaching His word. During the church interview (yes, he basically had to interview with the whole congregation! It was brutal!) he made it clear to many in the congregation that he is earnestly seeking after God and what He wants him to teach His people. Anyway, turns out the guy is not dispensational. Nor does he marry himself to any man-made theological system (his words). To this my DH and I say "Hooray!". He wants God to speak to him through prayer and study with the Holy Spirit guiding him. Geez, it seems so simple to us. Anyway, it is causing much turmoil at our church. We do actually get to vote on him this week and I hope he gets voted in. If not, my DH and I (along with many others in the church) are feeling like we are being led elsewhere. We have no interest in being involved in a legalistic, lack of grace church.

So I feel for you in your differences with other Christians as you search and learn. We all must have a one on one relationship with the Father and I don't think that can be found by people telling us what we should think about God. Only the Holy Spirit can accomplish this in us.

Geez, sorry, that was lengthy!! Good to see you around though. Hang in there, I will pray for your busy schedule!:prayer: :prayer:

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Fly

Welcome back, you surely were missed. Of course I agree with J. Mac read those books.

I was told by a decon in my church that I should not read and study so much :(

Drama has died off, but now that you are back,

LET THE GAMES BEGIN.. :)

j/k :kiss:

In Him,

Bill

[christian73]

Glad you're back, Flynmonkee! I missed ya! :)

[Flynmonkie]

.....Anyway, we are finding through much study and prayer, that we really aren't strict dispensationalists after all. Some of it just doesn't jive for us. I really don't think that we can label ourselves at all exactly. The only label I am taking on is that I am a blood bought, plucked out of my sin, undeserving child of the King. For that label I am grateful! ...........He wants God to speak to him through prayer and study with the Holy Spirit guiding him. Geez, it seems so simple to us. ...... lack of grace church.

:prayer:
Yes, I studied that also; I always have felt that Dispensational and Covenant theology were neither a "perfect fit" for me. I seemed to fall somewhere in this middle. Grace churches, from what I have gathered, especially the rightly dividing group seem to be very close to my approach to faith in the Baptist realm. Something though I am wrestling with truly is that now that I have reached a point of study on understanding how we acquired the KJV, and realized there are so many texts that are carbon dated to the same date of those of the Gospels.. I feel that there might be something to this. There are several books I plan to pick up in regards to the Gnostic gospels.. I have no idea where they will lead me. One for sure will be the Gospel of Thomas. If this gives you an idea. I started thinking, in my heart, when I view the Bible based on who the book is written, how and other contextual environment, I realize the "differences" of each. I have spent most of my life playing follow the leader on what to believe, what to read, in someone else’s systematic approach to "faith" and it has never seemed right. Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoy the sermons and positive messages, but I feel that there are many areas for me that have been left unexplored. I set out on a search a few years ago of why I believe what I believe and dispelling any inconsistencies. It has been a tough road, because I have very much a strict conservative background. But honestly, I tell you, I come farther through prayer and self-study outside of the confines than in them. I am very spiritual in my approach. Something Paul gave as a very good example. Recently, I viewed a documentary on the Gospel of Judas, of course I have not read it, I have no idea what to think, but I realized if this text is written around the same time, it is worth looking into - meanwhile my Christian counterparts labeled it Gnostic. Especially when I realized that it too was amongst other texts that were “chosen for us” on what is inspired and what is not. An alarm went off for me especially then. Whenever that fear that comes with peer suggestion, alarms go off for me and it seems to send me in exactly the direction (within reason) of what I am being told not to do! The whole term Gnostic has taken on a different meaning to me. No one can be 100% correct and perfect, but this does not mean there is not truth somewhere in the midst of our meager minds. ( I say meager, but they are God given so they must be perfect ;) ) Right now I am just acquiring information, it will be a while before I feel confident to further an opinion on the whole thing, but I can tell you, your explanation is very similar to what mine has been over the years, I believe you are going in the right direction.

Good Day, Fly

Welcome back, you surely were missed. Of course I agree with J. Mac read those books.

I was told by a deacon in my church that I should not read and study so much :(

Drama has died off, but now that you are back,

LET THE GAMES BEGIN.. :)

j/k :kiss:

In Him,

Bill

Hi Bill!

Actually, I had been surprised when I read this a few years ago while studying through John, out of all those I have read, he was the last one that I would think would have suggested this? I observed a few books, but have not totally delved into it, I have treated them as "extra" that I would get to when more pressing study had been exhausted. I think it is just time..

I honestly don't intentionally desire to cause drama!

It's nice to see you on here again sis...........I'm excited to hear what you're planning on studying stuff like the Apocrypha...........that's totally cool.

I'm interested to hear your take on the stem cell thing............PM me if you'd like to discuss.

Shalom............
Hey Andy,
WOW, this is an area I have had to give considerable thought.. Next semester in this class there are no tests, no grades other than a research paper for the entire semester. There are many things I think at this point. After learning about stem cell (which I am fully engrossed just this week I learned to extract DNA and evidence) I have to say I am keeping my mind open. If you were to ask me would I give an egg to save a life? My answer would be yes. My current issues with this are, the lines that need drawn in maintaining the respect for Human life, also Who would decide such things, especially after my studies into Lawrence Kohlberg and his stages of moral development, he along with many others cite that only 20% of people have the cognitive ability of post conventional moral thought, or higher levels of moral decision making, that is pretty frightening, however it makes sense in this culture. Actually, one of the things I have found interesting in those numerous Kohlberg based studies is that they correlate with what many Christians feel about the difference between true salvation and those whom just claim faith. Of course I believe you can be unsaved and still have a capability of moral thought. So anyway, it is a tough deal I am taking my time with it. I have prayed about this for months, and right now I am leaning toward approval for this, for many other reasons than noted. Intent is going to be a huge deciding factor, along with what precedences that are set. There are many points of dialogue on this subject, and many unanswered questions for me. But if there is something I can do to help another in the preservation of a life, I have full intentions of doing so. This whole deal is truly a whopper. But what I can say, I have not felt in my heart that approval of this is wrong.

The sad thing about all this is that I realize more and more each day how controlled our thoughts are in a religious setting, but we see this so much in the political arena too. I think people such as Richard Dawkins, and other militant factions are emerging out of sheer frustration, there has to be a middle ground, I hope we might find that truth in balance. We cannot deny what is factual, what is sitting right in front of us because there is no “descriptive” understanding of it “written in the Bible”. Yet we cannot be so dogmatic in what is written that we forget true discernment. If that makes sense?
Have you also been working on this?

[holdon]

BTW, here is an you tube video with Richard Dawkins, it is a good face to face with him regarding this book and will give you a teensy bit of what I dealt with this evening. Do not be disillusioned, he is not as nice as he comes across here (for an atheist), He is quite pointed in his remarks. Very insulting. Nor does he truly leave a door open with the claim of “I am almost certain God does not exist, of course I cannot prove it.” It seems to be a ploy to further the thought in his touring lecture by saying, “Of course I cannot prove fairies don’t exist either” which brought a whelp of laughter from the audience.:( I actually feel sorry for this man of such Brilliance in science, he almost certainly needs to stay away from philosophy or theology concepts; to this it is obvious he is ill qualified.If he wants to sell more books in America, he needs to convert to Christianity. That would bring a lot of cash.
This guy still has the illusion that science is all there is. The poor guy cannot disprove anything by his own admission, but doesn't hesitate to call religion lies. Helloooo?

What most scientists don't get is that science itself rests on belief. And for the rest science only discovers what are orderly laws of nature. Now, where did that come from? From a disorderly big bang? Or did those same laws pre-exist everything? That's where science necessarily stops. It's pathetic.

[Flynmonkie]

If he wants to sell more books in America, he needs to convert to Christianity. That would bring a lot of cash.
This guy still has the illusion that science is all there is. The poor guy cannot disprove anything by his own admission, but doesn't hesitate to call religion lies. Helloooo?

What most scientists don't get is that science itself rests on belief. And for the rest science only discovers what are orderly laws of nature. Now, where did that come from? From a disorderly big bang? Or did those same laws pre-exist everything? That's where science necessarily stops. It's pathetic.

Holden, I concur! You know, I stay away from these topics, as said before I find them a mindless waste of time. Once it is covered, there are questions unanswered and until we get that "evidence" there is no sense in argument. Which sort of has left me with one hand tied behind my back here, I am rushing to catch up on all of this now. Could the Biblical account tie into a scientific explanation even symbolically? I don't know, I do consider it feasible. There is so much we don't know.


False Premise - Science with no regard for humility to a potential higher creator, an arrogant assumption that we know what we do not.
False Premise - Belief in a Creator to the arrogant exclusion of scientific fact.

Neither is completely proven valid? Both carry inconsistencies. On what scale to we weight these out?

I actually found myself in agreement with many of those areas he feels distaste for in organized religion in science and other areas, however, I cannot remove myself from the thought of a higher power. For me, it defines a humility that reminds me that I don't know, amongst other things, namely hope and peace in what I don’t know. It is more to me than erring to the side of caution.

Why does God need proven or not? In the (Jewish and) Christian faith, Faith is defined as Hebrews 11:1. “The substance (some translations imply "the assurance") of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Anything outside of this does not seem rational? Yes, I do understand most do not view “faith in the unknown” as a rational thought but at this point I am picking my battles. (I actually have an answer for that argument too! ;) ) For the sake of his perspective in this interview, this is truly how “faith” is defined, or should be if sticking to text. I can see his argument in the tread of some of the more extremist Christian, and other thought, that sit on the opposing side of the fence barring themselves from scientific fact and evidence, however, this does not mean ether argument is sound, or right. Nor is it applicable to all faithful. Two wrongs don't equal a right answer, other than they are both obviously inaccurate. So what is the solution? There should be balance.

To solidify your point, you should have been there when I tried explaining to my professor this point you have made of "faith" or Belief in a goal of an experiment. He wiggled all over the place insisting it is called something but not "hope" or "faith" or "belief" Blah! Maybe not the results but it does motivate. I actually really like him, he is however "agnostic". A converted Jew, (with all that impressing God is it any wonder?) he believes that there could be a greater being, or higher power or creator; he explained that he leaves his mind free that there might not be.

As zany as Dawkins came off, as you can tell I am highly disappointed in that lecture, if he were to have discussed his work on genes, or memes and such, I would have found that much more beneficial. For some reason he has chosen to use his intellect to play patty-cake with those that care less, Hello? They aren’t listening, but those of us that do care are becoming turned off by this banter. This is however where intolerance brings us. I cannot believe he fed into it, or feeds into it and perpetuates the issue.

Of course, I, like you thought that he must be doing this to “rake it in,” but honestly? I think the man is serious. I listened to the influx of his voice thoroughout and I have to say there were a few times I heard a very slight “hesitation” in tone and words, but very little. He is angry, and frustrated, I cannot say that I blame him in a sense, but I certainly cannot understand this mockery to those of us that do acknowledge his plight.:sigh:

[holdon]

Holden, I concur! You know, I stay away from these topics, as said before I find them a mindless waste of time. Once it is covered, there are questions unanswered and until we get that "evidence" there is no sense in argument. Which sort of has left me with one hand tied behind my back here, I am rushing to catch up on all of this now. Could the Biblical account tie into a scientific explanation even symbolically? I don't know, I do consider it feasible. There is so much we don't know.

False Premise - Science with no regard for humility to a potential higher creator, an arrogant assumption that we know what we do not.
False Premise - Belief in a Creator to the arrogant exclusion of scientific fact.Neither is completely proven valid? Both carry inconsistencies. On what scale to we weight these out?

I actually found myself in agreement with many of those areas he feels distaste for in organized religion in science and other areas, however, I cannot remove myself from the thought of a higher power. For me, it defines a humility that reminds me that I don't know, amongst other things, namely hope and peace in what I don’t know. It is more to me than erring to the side of caution.

Why does God need proven or not? In the (Jewish and) Christian faith, Faith is defined as Hebrews 11:1. “The substance (some translations imply "the assurance") of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Anything outside of this does not seem rational? Yes, I do understand most do not view “faith in the unknown” as a rational thought but at this point I am picking my battles. (I actually have an answer for that argument too! ;) ) For the sake of his perspective in this interview, this is truly how “faith” is defined, or should be if sticking to text. I can see his argument in the tread of some of the more extremist Christian, and other thought, that sit on the opposing side of the fence barring themselves from scientific fact and evidence, however, this does not mean ether argument is sound, or right. Nor is it applicable to all faithful. Two wrongs don't equal a right answer, other than they are both obviously inaccurate. So what is the solution? There should be balance.

To solidify your point, you should have been there when I tried explaining to my professor this point you have made of "faith" or Belief in a goal of an experiment. He wiggled all over the place insisting it is called something but not "hope" or "faith" or "belief" Blah! Maybe not the results but it does motivate. I actually really like him, he is however "agnostic". A converted Jew, (with all that impressing God is it any wonder?) he believes that there could be a greater being, or higher power or creator; he explained that he leaves his mind free that there might not be.

As zany as Dawkins came off, as you can tell I am highly disappointed in that lecture, if he were to have discussed his work on genes, or memes and such, I would have found that much more beneficial. For some reason he has chosen to use his intellect to play patty-cake with those that care less, Hello? They aren’t listening, but those of us that do care are becoming turned off by this banter. This is however where intolerance brings us. I cannot believe he fed into it, or feeds into it and perpetuates the issue.

Of course, I, like you thought that he must be doing this to “rake it in,” but honestly? I think the man is serious. I listened to the influx of his voice thoroughout and I have to say there were a few times I heard a very slight “hesitation” in tone and words, but very little. He is angry, and frustrated, I cannot say that I blame him in a sense, but I certainly cannot understand this mockery to those of us that do acknowledge his plight.:sigh:

People that don't believe don't want to believe. In essence it's that simple. Despite all the arguments that may be presented to them. They will hide their unwillingness to believe behind arguments that there are no reasons to faith, etc..
Unfortunately, christians will cater to such thinking, and rather fill their bookcases with works from guys "who had an experience" (conversions to Christianity), because their own is so bleak. (Mine is too, so, I'm not being too negative) But isn't this how "success" is measured? How many debates have there to be won?
This Dawkins guy still can have a great future.... There is still hope.... But will he go for it winning the whole world to his arguments and losing his soul or the other way around?

The question then is, can he abandon his natural scientific arrogance and give up his will? Would he dare to? Would we?

For a lot of people, religion is really like opium. (they keep coming back at these forums for instance). And it feels so good!
But true religion is to not care for oneself:
"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world."

Anybody addicted to that pure religion yet? I don't think so.

[Flynmonkie]

Anybody addicted to that pure religion yet? I don't think so.

Monkie raises her hand -- me!:clap:

It is funny, after my last post this is exactly where my mind wandered.:) We as Christians are taught to tolerate, to seek an understanding of another’s perspective.. It makes us prime targets for it to be manipulated and thrown back at us..

I don't necessarily call it arrogance to seek knowledge, we all have God given minds for choice and reason, and we were essentially born to learn. It is how we use that knowledge is what counts. Becoming so caught up that we loose sight of the aim of seeking outside our own egocentrical perspective is where the problem lies.

[holdon]

Monkie raises her hand -- me!:clap:

It is funny, after my last post this is exactly where my mind wandered.:) We as Christians are taught to tolerate, to seek an understanding of another’s perspective.. It makes us prime targets for it to be manipulated and thrown back at us.. We do need to try to understand others to be able to give them what they need. Christians often have loads of answers, but they don't know what the questions are...

I don't necessarily call it arrogance to seek knowledge, we all have God given minds for choice and reason, and we were essentially born to learn. It is how we use that knowledge is what counts. Becoming so caught up that we loose sight of the aim of seeking outside our own egocentrical perspective is where the problem lies.

Agreed. Jesus said: "If ye were blind ye would not have sin; but now ye say, We see, your sin remains."