Tithing

[GordonSlocum]

What is tithing to you? Please no long list of endless Scripture and quotes form books etc.

You personally answer the question and use key verses.

Is tithing 10 percen?

Is tithing of the Gross or New or other?

Why? keep it short and to the point.

Explain Gross and New in light of your understanding not someone elses.

Reframe from telling others and disagreeing with others focus on your view not others. Tell us why you do what you do.

You receive 100 dollars for services rendered at work. The government takes 10 dollars and you have 90 dollars left. How much or what percentage do you give and form which the gross or net?

.

[novcncy]

What is tithing to you? Please no long list of endless Scripture and quotes form books etc.

You personally answer the question and use key verses.

Is tithing 10 percen?

Is tithing of the Gross or New or other?

Why? keep it short and to the point.

Explain Gross and New in light of your understanding not someone elses.

Reframe from telling others and disagreeing with others focus on your view not others. Tell us why you do what you do.

You receive 100 dollars for services rendered at work. The government takes 10 dollars and you have 90 dollars left. How much or what percentage do you give and form which the gross or net?

.

This is something in which I actually benefited from CF:

I used to be a tithe guy. 10 % of Gross. It is what most Christians (at least in my circles) are taught. So in yet another one of Gordon's hypothetical situations, I would have tithed 10 dollars.

The problem is that tithing is a part of the OT law. It was also an integral part of a theocracy, a tax system, in a way. It is mentioned no where in the New Testament. The New Testament talks of giving out of grace (2 Cor 8), regularly and porportionately(1 Cor 16:2). The primary determination of how much should I give, should be left to the Holy Spirit to make. The problem is that many Christians use this as an excuse not to give at all! A careful study of 2 Cor 8 will quickly dispel all such notions from the true believer's heart. I have come understand that to teach that tithing is God's plan for the New Testament church is unscriptural, because it wrests the scripture out of context in an attempt to make it topical. The real problem is that many churches don't have enough faith. They say to themselves, "How will we pay the power bill, etc. etc.?" Don't worry about that. Our father owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He is more than capable of meeting our needs. Instead, individually yield to the Holy Spirit, and His leading in this area, and you might be surprised to find yourself giving far above ten percent! (Especially in North America)

To insist on the tithe, is to insist on the law. The law is an all or nothing thing. I myself cannot keep the law, so I am grateful to not be under it.

Now that I am under grace, and I understand that God owns everything He has entrusted to my stewardship, including every cent in the the bank, my focus is/should be on being a good steward, not in meeting the requirements of the law.

[Jim1927]

Tithe does mean ten per cent, but percentage of what? Originally it had nothing to do with cash dollars.

Having said that, I think ten percent of whatever is a good starting point, but then there are offering over and above that.

Tithing should never be a legal thing, and it shouldn't cause harship on the family.

If every church member tithed, there would never be a shortfall or need for cash-drives in the church or on the mission field.

In my mind, it is ALL the Lord's anyway. I am just a trustee.

Cheers,

Jim

[HypoTypoSis]

Pick a figure, a percentage, a portion of funds, goods or a mix thereof you think is appropriate for your circumstances and remember to keep Proverbs 3:9 in mind in that it is the first fruits and not the remainder of what is letover there which it is easier to do as Paul suggested when he wrote, I have learned in whatsover state I am in, therewith to be content.

[GordonSlocum]

If we take the OT tithing at its complete percentage at the end of the year someone has figured that it comes to around (working on memory here - correct me if it is wrong) 27 percent. Some of you OT experts can chime in on this. It may have been as high as 30 plus percent but I will leave that to you to educate us on.


Now an observation that sees reasonable to me is that under the OT economy The goods given to the priest annually came to more that just 10 percent. It supported the "Religious Government" The priest hood. Later Israel had in a sense two obligations the priest hood and the government under King Solomon and on.

Perhaps someone has done a study on this and can share it with us.
Now in that then they used live stock and produce to pay their tithe. To day we turn the same things in to notes (dollars). In the end it practically means the same thing. So in comparing then to now with respect to income let don’t get caught up in this difference because it really is not different in principle.
10 percent of live stock is no different from 10 percent of the “notes” you receive to purchase services and goods.

Today, a cow sells for $500 and you have 10 cows so you have $5000 and 10 percent is $500.
You earn $5000 and 10 percent is still $500.
The interesting thing to me is that Abraham giving 10 percent before the law, before the support of the Levitical Priesthood which was the Political rule of the people under the Word of God. Israel supported the Priesthood with their tithe which came to over 10 percent.
Again someone on here has most likely done the research and can tell us the exact percentage Israel paid annually to the Priesthood.

[PETE_]

I do not think tithing is applicable for Christians today. We are to give when there is a need. There are far better ways to do it than money.

I have two people living in my house now that need a place to stay.

I enploy refugees from Sudan in my business because they need work.

We help others do home repair when needed.

Driving those who cannot to appointments.

there are many other options for giving, do not be so focused on a number.

[GordonSlocum]

That is interesting. You are a busy person. Do you give to your local church at all? I have a brother that does not go to a local Church but gives to a particular ministry. That is another topic and I don't want to side tract into that.

The point is he gives but not to a local church a distance church in another state.

[edb19]

We give what we're able - not just to church but to multiple charities and mercy ministries. We don't consider percentages - we simply do what we can whenever we can.

My pastor has never (and will never) speak on tithing. We don't pass an offering plate. And we have money to pay the bills, to support missions, and to provide multiple mercy services. I don't think that I could go back to a church that has a pledge drive and is constantly talking about "we need money for this or funds for that."

[edb19]

In my mind, it is ALL the Lord's anyway. I am just a trustee.

A big AMEN to that.:amen::amen:

[edb19]

. . . I have a brother that does not go to a local Church but gives to a particular ministry. That is another topic and I don't want to side tract into that.

The point is he gives but not to a local church a distance church in another state.

I don't see a problem with that. My dad still financially supports the church he grew up in and he hasn't been a member there in almost 60 years.

[christian73]

I have always been taught that tithing is giving back to God a portion of what He has given us. While it is true that tithing was in the OT law, it still applies today. Why? Because Jesus said that He didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it.

I'll say this in closing. It's not how much you give, but how you give (whether it's from a cheerful heart or not).

[GordonSlocum]

That is good. I was hoping someone would have the scriptures to post the complete amount of tithe the Israelites had to contribute annually. I forget but it is more than 10 percent. I was thinking form memory somewhere in the neighborhood of 27 percent max. but don't take that to the bank as Gospel truth.

[CooL_Genesis]

While we are not "under" the law anymore, if we love God, we will try to show Him obedience in everything that He has commanded, New or Old Testament. His words do not change.

We give to the Church some, to ministries, to help with sudden disasters, and just to depraved folks who need to be lifted up. While I try to make sure that I'm giving at least 10%, there have been months or weeks where that number hasn't mattered and the amount has been far higher. Recognizing the "need" seems to be the deciding factor to me in giving.

If a see a homeless man or woman, I'll give to him or her more quickly than I will the church (building).

-Genesis

[trinityisunity]

People often say, "Money is the root of all evil." This is a misquote of, "The love of money is the root of all evil."
(1 Tim 6:10)
If we as Christians do not love money then tithing should not be an issue. We are giving back to God a small amount of the huge amount of blessing He has given us. Just as the 10 Commandments still apply to our walk today, so to, I believe does the 10% tithe from the O.T.

God does not need our money, I mean after all He is the God of this entire universe, but He does like to see tithing with a cheerful heart.

We live on a tight budget and try our best to tithe the amount mentioned above, but some weeks the money is just not there to give. Tithing is from the heart and not from what is leftover in your purse or wallet on a Sunday. IMPHO. My $0.02c (10% of 20c).

[PETE_]

1. What were the Hebrews required to tithe? The Torah legislated that ‘the seed of the land’ (crops), ‘the fruit of the trees’ and ‘herds and flocks’ (Lv. 27:30–32) were to be tithed. The manner of tithing livestock was as follows: the owner counted the animals as they passed out to pasture, and every tenth one was given to God. In this way there was no possibility of selecting inferior animals for the tithing of the flocks and herds (Lv. 27:32f. (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=27925343#_ftn1)). If a Hebrew preferred to dedicate the tenth of his cereal and fruit yields in the form of their monetary value he was free to do so, but a fifth of that sum had to be added to it. He was not allowed to redeem the tenth of his flocks and herds in this way (Lv. 27:31, 33).

[GordonSlocum]

I will have to review my OT books to see if I can retrieve the data on the complete tithe in the Hebrew economy. I have run into discussion on this on more than one occasion and it is an intriguing subject.

A complete understanding of giving in the OT does I believe have an impact on ones personal belief in Giving or Tithing.

For years I adopted the not Tithe approach but not I have changed to the 10 percent not because of mandate but because it is a good place to start.

Abraham did tithe 10 percent to Melchizededk prior to the law so we can't argue that 10 percent is not a principle not taught in scripture granted that it is in-direct or implied.

NT letters do not address a percentage issue in giving to the Church.

10 percent for me is my practice and them more.

Everyone else has to decide for themselves how they will deal with giving. Surely 10 percent should be the starting point if our finances are in order.

Debt robs God of giving and freedom in our lives to benefit the ministry.

Gordon

[christian73]

People often say, "Money is the root of all evil." This is a misquote of, "The love of money is the root of all evil."
(1 Tim 6:10)
If we as Christians do not love money then tithing should not be an issue. We are giving back to God a small amount of the huge amount of blessing He has given us. Just as the 10 Commandments still apply to our walk today, so to, I believe does the 10% tithe from the O.T.

God does not need our money, I mean after all He is the God of this entire universe, but He does like to see tithing with a cheerful heart.

We live on a tight budget and try our best to tithe the amount mentioned above, but some weeks the money is just not there to give. Tithing is from the heart and not from what is leftover in your purse or wallet on a Sunday. IMPHO. My $0.02c (10% of 20c).

:amen:

I agree

[GordonSlocum]

This discussion of giving / tithing raises another interesting point.

There are believers who - no fault of their own - are living on extreme low incomes. No capacity to help themselves because of age and sometimes illness.

A saint receiving a government pension that is just enough to survive. Doctor visits, and some necessities are outside the income and engender debt. That in turn means interest and further debt.

What would you advise a Saint to do in a case like this?

[novcncy]

A pretty strong argument can be made that giving is to be done through the local church. Any one want to chime in on that, pro or con?

[Andyman_1970]

A pretty strong argument can be made that giving is to be done through the local church. Any one want to chime in on that, pro or con?

I thinks its a hermenutial stretch to say the least to equate the local church with the "storehouse" noted in Malachai. The store house was the Temple, not the local synagouge (which our church is loosely based on) and did not receive the tithe. Not to mention that the tithe was never currency, it was grain/produce/animals given to the Temple to help the Levites and help those in need, not keep the Temple operating, that was what the Temple tax was for.

The Scriptures also speak of taking your tithe once a year and using it to have a huge feast with your family (including purchasing strong drink)...........of all the tithe sermons I've heard (and I've heard alot) I've yet to hear a good ol Baptist preacher cite these passages..........LOL

The giving we do today is in no way a Biblical tithe.

[christian73]

I thinks its a hermenutial stretch to say the least to equate the local church with the "storehouse" noted in Malachai. The store house was the Temple, not the local synagouge (which our church is loosely based on) and did not receive the tithe. Not to mention that the tithe was never currency, it was grain/produce/animals given to the Temple to help the Levites and help those in need, not keep the Temple operating, that was what the Temple tax was for.

The Scriptures also speak of taking your tithe once a year and using it to have a huge feast with your family (including purchasing strong drink)...........of all the tithe sermons I've heard (and I've heard alot) I've yet to hear a good ol Baptist preacher cite these passages..........LOL

The giving we do today is in no way a Biblical tithe.
I would have to disagree with that. While what you say is true about the tithe in the biblical times, I think tithing our money is biblical. God gives us money through our jobs, and money is considered a possession. Therefore, if God blesses us with an income, shouldn't we give a portion back to Him?

[Imblessed]

I think more important than the 10% tithe, and more important than whether you give to your own church, or to outside charities, or to whom ever needs it whenever you see the need ----is being a good steward of the money that you do have, and striving as much as possible to be as debt free as possible. If you are a good steward, and stay out of debt, then tithing(regardless of what you feel it is or how much you feel it is) becomes a non-issue.

I honestly think the reason most people make such a big deal out of tithing is because, frankly, they cannot afford to give to charity, or to their church, or to someone who needs help without causing severe problems moneywise in their own homes--so they rationalize it away.......

Others do so because they place more trust in their money than they do in God being able to take care of them. It's more an issue of trust than anything.

Our family is not debt free, although we are working toward that goal, and we don't tithe regularly; but we try to, and our aim is to become completely debt free so that it is no longer an issue. I WANT to be able to help others less fortunate than I whenever possible. I want to be a good steward so that I can let the Lord's blessings pass through me to others----and that includes my money, as well as my time and love.

It's a daily struggle, but I will never fool myself into thinking that it's OK not to use our money to help others, (however you choose to do it, and whatever amount you choose to do it in.)

[Andyman_1970]

I think tithing our money is biblical.

Chapter and verse please where God accepts currency as an accaptable tithe?

Remember our income is based on money given to us for services rendered, that's not "increase" increase would be like making money off your stocks or investments. Remember that a farmer always reaps more than they sow, that's their increase. If a farmer raised say goats in the ancient near East, if his goats didn't have any babies that year he didn't tithe.

[Andyman_1970]

I honestly think the reason most people make such a big deal out of tithing is because, frankly, they cannot afford to give to charity, or to their church, or to someone who needs help without causing severe problems moneywise in their own homes--so they rationalize it away.......


While I'm rather vocal about how we cannot Biblically tithe today in the year 2006, my family uses 10% as a starting point with our giving. So to equate those who are vocal against tithing as non givers it not accurate. As followers of Jesus we are commanded to be generous, IMO 10% is a far cry from being generous.

[christian73]

Chapter and verse please where God accepts currency as an accaptable tithe?

Remember our income is based on money given to us for services rendered, that's not "increase" increase would be like making money off your stocks or investments. Remember that a farmer always reaps more than they sow, that's their increase. If a farmer raised say goats in the ancient near East, if his goats didn't have any babies that year he didn't tithe.
In the NT, the pharisees tried to trap Jesus by giving Jesus a coin with Caeser's picture on it. They asked Jesus if it was right to pay taxes to Caesar. Here is Jesus' response:

“Well then,” he said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.” Luke 20:25 (NLT)

Also, if God has blessed you with a job, therefore it's His paycheck anyway. ("you" meant in the plural sense. Not you personally.)

[Andyman_1970]

In the NT, the pharisees tried to trap Jesus by giving Jesus a coin with Caeser's picture on it. They asked Jesus if it was right to pay taxes to Caesar. Here is Jesus' response:

“Well then,” he said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.” Luke 20:25 (NLT)

Also, if God has blessed you with a job, therefore it's His paycheck anyway. ("you" meant in the plural sense. Not you personally.)

I don't disagree, but Jesus isn't referring to tithing there, it's more than a hermenutical stretch to argue that Jesus is advocating that currency is an acceptable tithe.

[ksbriscoe]

To me tithing is a personal thing. I pray every sunday before church and give the most that I can. My tithing don't only include my church but other places that need financial help. I find that the more I give the More the Lord gives back. Once we only had $30 in our account and I felt that God wanted me to take $20 of it to church, I felt it was Gods way of saying "Trust that I will take are of you" and so I did...... we Got a $200 check in the mail on monday that we didn't know we were getting! I give what the Lord wants me to give.

[christian73]

I don't disagree, but Jesus isn't referring to tithing there, it's more than a hermenutical stretch to argue that Jesus is advocating that currency is an acceptable tithe.
I believe in a way He is. When He says, "Give to God what is God's", I believe He is referring to tithing. That's my personal opinion.

[GordonSlocum]

Over the years I held to a non-ten percent but have changed to 10 percent because, to me it makes more sense. I don't take issue with others on their view because I did hold the other view for a very long time.

The fact that Abraham gave to Mel. before the Law is the clincher for me.

10 percent is a good place to start but the heart is the real start not the 10 percent.


Gordon

[Andyman_1970]

I believe in a way He is. When He says, "Give to God what is God's", I believe He is referring to tithing. That's my personal opinion.

With all due respect it's not a Scriptural opinion.

[Andyman_1970]

The fact that Abraham gave to Mel. before the Law is the clincher for me.



Abraham gave 10% of stuff he captured in a war, not his income, not to mention it was a one time event, and not performed regularly. Again, I would argue to indicate that the passages in Genesis about Abraham tithing are somehow prescriptive for us as follwers of Jesus today takes the Scriptures out of context and verges on a misuse of the Text........with all due respect.

[GordonSlocum]

OK - they did not, to my knowledge, have currency to exchange for goods in that day. All currency is - is a note you earn to buy goods and services.

Today exchanging service for service or goods for goods is called bartering.

Today if one were to defeat and get spoils he would most likely liquidate them and then give 10 percent of the results of liquidation. So the method of economic exchange is not in question, only the historical question of this one time mention of giving 10 percent.
By the way other religions of his day practiced a 10 percent giving. Just thought you might want to know that. Note sure if it has any bearing or not. Check it out and let me know.

You will notice in my post that I qualified what I sad that it was my belief, of which I believed like you, for a long time. I persoally (now) choose to do the 10 percent thing.

Both sides have their arguments.

You can keep yours and tithers can keep theirs. Neither will win or lose, if they give from the heart. Not interested, myself in trying to prove either side, someone else may however take you up on it.

The equalizer is to give from the heart for where the heart is there will be your Money or Cows which ever exchange form you decide to use. Not so sure a church will take a cow but they might and then sell if for money which I hear is the same as cash, so the Aflac add tells us

[christian73]

The equalizer is to give from the heart for where the heart is there will be your Money or Cows which ever exchange form you decide to use. Not so sure a church will take a cow but they might and then sell if for money which I hear is the same as cash, so the Aflac add tells us


^_^

Love that last statement, Gordon!

[Andyman_1970]

OK - they did not, to my knowledge, have currency to exchange for goods in that day. All currency is - is a note you earn to buy goods and services.

Today exchanging service for service or goods for goods is called bartering.

Today if one were to defeat and get spoils he would most likely liquidate them and then give 10 percent of the results of liquidation. So the method of economic exchange is not in question, only the historical question of this one time mention of giving 10 percent.
By the way other religions of his day practiced a 10 percent giving. Just thought you might want to know that. Note sure if it has any bearing or not. Check it out and let me know.

You’re right about the other religions, which brings up the interesting point that very little of what the Bible tells us was actually unique in it’s day………..but that’s another rabbit trail.

You will notice in my post that I qualified what I sad that it was my belief, of which I believed like you, for a long time. I persoally (now) choose to do the 10 percent thing.

I’ve had this conversation innumerable times in the Spirit Filled board………..and my question is…………where is it “ok” to take God’s Word out of context and make it mean something that it doesn’t mean?

Both sides have their arguments.

I would respectfully say they don’t……….one side takes God’s Holy Word out of context and one side seeks to correctly and accurately understand the Text.

Neither will win or lose, if they give from the heart.

I agree.

[novcncy]

I agree with the rational that a major reason to give is because of all the blessings God bestows upon us. (2 Cor 8) Giving is not the same thing as tithing.

I also agree with Andyman, that in most cases, and I would say especially in North America, ten percent is relatively little. The reason I say this is because there are people in the third world who regularly give, who most definitely cannot "afford" it. We're talking about folks to whom a plastic water bottle, like ones we so casually throw away when we've used them once, is a treasure to these people.

It usually (not always!) is not the case that we CANNOT give more than we do, although we do our best to convince ourselves that it is so. Instead, we have other priorities, such as our cars, our houses, our hobbies, new clothes, etc. etc., and the reality is that these things effectively are more important to us than giving. Someone mentioned something about stewardship, and I agree with them that is the bottom line. If all that you have is God's, how would He have you use it???? All the sudden, driving a new car becomes less important, doesn't it?

[novcncy]

The fact that Abraham gave to Mel. before the Law is the clincher for me.

10 percent is a good place to start but the heart is the real start not the 10 percent.


Gordon

Gordon,

Abraham did quite a few things, before the law. Does that mean you're going to start building altars and sacrificing sheep?

I'm not trying to belittle the situation, and I'm glad you're systematically giving, but I'm not sure that your logic goes through, here. Maybe I just don't see it, and if that's the case, would you develop the argument a little more?

[JPPT1974]

Since I am on disability and
Don't get much except to pay my
Bills and to have some for groceries
It is hard for me to tithe as I don't have much
But IMO, that is no excuse and that I need
To tithe much more despite that.

[christian73]

Since I am on disability and
Don't get much except to pay my
Bills and to have some for groceries
It is hard for me to tithe as I don't have much
But IMO, that is no excuse and that I need
To tithe much more despite that.
It doesn't matter how much you have, only that it comes from the heart. God knows that you are doing your best. That's all He asks of us. :)

[JPPT1974]

It doesn't matter how much you have, only that it comes from the heart. God knows that you are doing your best. That's all He asks of us. :)

To be honest it felt good to
Tithe yesterday! It really did!:amen:

[Imblessed]

While I'm rather vocal about how we cannot Biblically tithe today in the year 2006, my family uses 10% as a starting point with our giving. So to equate those who are vocal against tithing as non givers it not accurate. As followers of Jesus we are commanded to be generous, IMO 10% is a far cry from being generous.

I did not equate them with non-givers.

I re-read what I had wrote and an can see how you might have gotten that impression. Let me re-word that.

I think most people who are against tithing(giving of any kind) are like that because they cannot afford to give. I'm talking the people who do not give at all.

A great majority of people who give, use the word tithe and don't mean it in the VERY strict way that you mean it.

[Andyman_1970]

...........don't mean it in the VERY strict way that you mean it.

You mean the Biblical way to understand that word.......it's not what I "mean" it to say, it's what God's Holy, inspired, infallible, Word says.

[FallingWaters]

What is tithing to you? Please no long list of endless Scripture and quotes form books etc.

You personally answer the question and use key verses.

Is tithing 10 percen?

Is tithing of the Gross or New or other?

Why? keep it short and to the point.

Explain Gross and New in light of your understanding not someone elses.

Reframe from telling others and disagreeing with others focus on your view not others. Tell us why you do what you do.

You receive 100 dollars for services rendered at work. The government takes 10 dollars and you have 90 dollars left. How much or what percentage do you give and form which the gross or net?

. We were taught that the scripture teaches to give a tithe of all your increase, so that means gross, not just what you take home.

Proverbs 3:9 Honor the LORD with your possessions,
And with the firstfruits of all your increase;
10 So your barns will be filled with plenty,
And your vats will overflow with new wine."

We were taught to give a tithe means to give 10% of our gross income, and to give free-will offerings over and above the tithe.

[GordonSlocum]

OK - If any of you have Ungers Bible Dictionary - read on the Tithe.

My understanding of His explanation was that the special tithe on the third year was a double tithe on that year.

You can read it for yourself.

If this is the case then spreading the ?? "double tithe on the third year" ?? would make the annual total come to 33.3 percent annually.

After thinking about it for a bit. I am not so sure this can be pressed into a hard case to say Christians should give 33.3 percent.

What I would prefer in my thinking would be the equate it with an offering even though it is called a tithe because it appears it was not for the priesthood but the poor.

Anyway you can read for yourself and come to your own conclusions. There seems to be some question as to this third year tithe as additional to the normal tithe.

If tithing is for the Church dispensation then I am not so sure it can be forced to comply with the tithing laws to Israel. But I don't take issue with anyone who disagrees.

The dividing line for me is Abraham gave a tenth to Mel. and Christ is after the order of Mel. therefore I have changed my thinking on the tithe vs. the view that says give according to how God has prospered you.

Now, understand, in my thinking the statement "give according to how God has prospered you" is subject to the pre law tithing example of Abraham to Mel.

This is my convection. Don't take me to task just defend your view. Tell us why you believe as you do without suggesting others are wrong. You can do it I know you can.

[FallingWaters]

This discussion of giving / tithing raises another interesting point.

There are believers who - no fault of their own - are living on extreme low incomes. No capacity to help themselves because of age and sometimes illness.

A saint receiving a government pension that is just enough to survive. Doctor visits, and some necessities are outside the income and engender debt. That in turn means interest and further debt.

What would you advise a Saint to do in a case like this?I have read that in the Hebrew economy, the poor did not tithe, part of the tithe was given to the poor!

Should Christians Tithe? (http://www.mindspring.com/%7Ek.w/tithe/tithe.html)

"The third tithe was given once every three years for the support of the poor: "At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied...." (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; see also Deuteronomy 26:12)"

[FallingWaters]

OK - If any of you have Ungers Bible Dictionary - read on the Tithe.

My understanding of His explanation was that the special tithe on the third year was a double tithe on that year.

You can read it for yourself.

If this is the case then spreading the ?? "double tithe on the third year" ?? would make the annual total come to 33.3 percent annually.

After thinking about it for a bit. I am not so sure this can be pressed into a hard case to say Christians should give 33.3 percent.

What I would prefer in my thinking would be the equate it with an offering even though it is called a tithe because it appears it was not for the priesthood but the poor.

Anyway you can read for yourself and come to your own conclusions. There seems to be some question as to this third year tithe as additional to the normal tithe.

If tithing is for the Church dispensation then I am not so sure it can be forced to comply with the tithing laws to Israel. But I don't take issue with anyone who disagrees.

The dividing line for me is Abraham gave a tenth to Mel. and Christ is after the order of Mel. therefore I have changed my thinking on the tithe vs. the view that says give according to how God has prospered you.

Now, understand, in my thinking the statement "give according to how God has prospered you" is subject to the pre law tithing example of Abraham to Mel.

This is my convection. Don't take me to task just defend your view. Tell us why you believe as you do without suggesting others are wrong. You can do it I know you can.
Right, except Abraham tithed on the spoils of war, not on his entire income. And that's the only time we know of that he did it.

[christian73]

I have read that in the Hebrew economy, the poor did not tithe, part of the tithe was given to the poor!

Should Christians Tithe? (http://www.mindspring.com/%7Ek.w/tithe/tithe.html)

"The third tithe was given once every three years for the support of the poor: "At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied...." (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; see also Deuteronomy 26:12)"
It's not how much you give, but if it comes from the heart. This is illustrated in the Bible.

[Imblessed]

You mean the Biblical way to understand that word.......it's not what I "mean" it to say, it's what God's Holy, inspired, infallible, Word says.

for crying out loud Andyman! Don't try that on me.

I know as well as you do that "tithing" in the proper, biblical, 2000 year old word sense is not applicable to today. HOWEVER, I don't see why we can't use the term 'tithing' to discuss giving to the church in this present day and age. For someone who refuses to equate tithe with giving, I'm suprised that you are willing to concede that "10%" is your starting point in giving!!

I'm not trying to get into some big argument here, I don't have the temperment, nor desire to debate people. All I did was offer an opinion on why there are so many christians who refuse to give money to their church, making up all sorts of excuses----one being that "tithing" is no longer applicable.


People like you, who are trying to keep a distinguishment between the proper biblical, OT word "tithe" and the NT exhortation to give are far and few inbetween. See, when you start telling people, "the tithe doesn't exist anymore", there will be people who turn their ears off(and brains) and say "see!!!! I don't have to give! the Tithe doesn't exist!" Maybe, instead of just announcing that the tithe isn't applicable and trying to prove why, you should also clarify that giving is still something we all need to do, and all the explanations about the tithe being a non-currency, OT ritual doesn't change that.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across mad; I'm just frustrated, because it seems to me you are ignoring the spirit of what I'm trying to say in favor of 'pouncing' on my improper use of a word. So forgive me. I don't know how to put it any different

[novcncy]

I can see what she's saying....and I agree with him, that the distinction should be made. As my wife tells me, "It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it...."

[novcncy]

Should Christians Tithe? (http://www.mindspring.com/%7Ek.w/tithe/tithe.html)


THAT...^^^..., is a fantastic article!!!! What I would like to know, is whether anyone has a scriptural objection to it.

[Andyman_1970]

for crying out loud Andyman! Don't try that on me.

I know as well as you do that "tithing" in the proper, biblical, 2000 year old word sense is not applicable to today. HOWEVER, I don't see why we can't use the term 'tithing' to discuss giving to the church in this present day and age.

So then it’s “ok” to misuse the Bible and take it out of context with regards to giving…..just to get people to give? That’s what you’re suggesting.

For someone who refuses to equate tithe with giving, I'm suprised that you are willing to concede that "10%" is your starting point in giving!!

Is giving 10% of your income a good starting point for how one gives to those in need and to the local congregation, it sure is……………is it a tithe, absolutely not.

All I did was offer an opinion on why there are so many christians who refuse to give money to their church, making up all sorts of excuses----one being that "tithing" is no longer applicable.

So then teachers of the Scriptures should misuse the Text in order to coerce people into giving? That seems to be what you’re suggesting. If they don’t want to give because they don’t think the tithe is for today, and use it as an excuse, should they have even been giving in the fist place? Paul says no, they should just keep it.


People like you, who are trying to keep a distinguishment between the proper biblical, OT word "tithe" and the NT exhortation to give are far and few inbetween. See, when you start telling people, "the tithe doesn't exist anymore", there will be people who turn their ears off(and brains) and say "see!!!! I don't have to give! the Tithe doesn't exist!" Maybe, instead of just announcing that the tithe isn't applicable and trying to prove why, you should also clarify that giving is still something we all need to do, and all the explanations about the tithe being a non-currency, OT ritual doesn't change that.

Maybe all those good ol Baptist preachers that preach we should be tithing today and that according to Malachi 3 if you don’t tithe you’ll be cursed…………maybe instead of misusing the Bible in order to coerce people into giving they should teach what giving should look like for a follower of Jesus……….radical generosity.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across mad; I'm just frustrated, because it seems to me you are ignoring the spirit of what I'm trying to say in favor of 'pouncing' on my improper use of a word. So forgive me. I don't know how to put it any different

It seems strange to me how in this Baptist forum in which the Scripture is held in such high regard, that it would be “acceptable” to take something like tithing out of context so blatantly and it not bother more people.

[christian73]

Is giving 10% of your income a good starting point for how one gives to those in need and to the local congregation, it sure is……………is it a tithe, absolutely not.


Giving 10% is a tithe. If that is not a tithe, then what is?

Tithing is giving God back a portion of what He has given us.. 10% is a good starting place for it.

[FallingWaters]

I was taught to tithe. I was not taught to give.

[Andyman_1970]

Giving 10% is a tithe. If that is not a tithe, then what is?

10% of what? God's Word says what that "what" is............

Tithing is giving God back a portion of what He has given us.. 10% is a good starting place for it.

Give God back what? Just anything, or with specific reference to a tithe does God specifically define what it should be? Remember when God gave the tithe commands currency was avaliable (Abraham paid 400 shekels for Sarah's grave)........so the "well all they had was cows....." is not accurate historically.

Where in God's Holy inspired, infallible Word does He "switch" what He specifically commanded the tithe to be, and who He specifically commanded it to go to and be received by to what we inaccurately call a tithe today?

[Andyman_1970]

I was taught to tithe. I was not taught to give.

Excellent point.

IMO that's one of the problems with how many understand the tithe, it limits one's giving to merely 10%.......but when asked what this new Jesus movement is all about John the Baptist says "if someone needs a coat and you have 2 give him one........" that sounds alot closer to 50% than a stingy 10%.

[christian73]

10% of what? God's Word says what that "what" is............



Give God back what? Just anything, or with specific reference to a tithe does God specifically define what it should be? Remember when God gave the tithe commands currency was avaliable (Abraham paid 400 shekels for Sarah's grave)........so the "well all they had was cows....." is not accurate historically.

Where in God's Holy inspired, infallible Word does He "switch" what He specifically commanded the tithe to be, and who He specifically commanded it to go to and be received by to what we inaccurately call a tithe today?
Most people don't have cows today. The Bible says to give 10% of your possessions. Money is a possession. You're right that they had currency back then, but you have to read the NT, not just the OT. I think there's a story where a woman only gave 2 sheckles, and Jesus said that she gave more than the other people. She gave from the heart. I'll have to look that up to make sure that's right. If I'm wrong, I'll post a retraction.

Also, remember the story of the talents?

[novcncy]

Most people don't have cows today. The Bible says to give 10% of your possessions. Money is a possession. You're right that they had currency back then, but you have to read the NT, not just the OT. I think there's a story where a woman only gave 2 sheckles, and Jesus said that she gave more than the other people. She gave from the heart. I'll have to look that up to make sure that's right. If I'm wrong, I'll post a retraction.

Also, remember the story of the talents?
I'm going to beat Andyman to the point....the OT says to give 10 percent of your increase, not your possessions. The NT says to give according the grace God has given to you....I guess in some cases it's more than others, but in any case, it's quite a bit....

[Andyman_1970]

Most people don't have cows today. The Bible says to give 10% of your possessions. Money is a possession. You're right that they had currency back then, but you have to read the NT, not just the OT. I think there's a story where a woman only gave 2 sheckles, and Jesus said that she gave more than the other people. She gave from the heart. I'll have to look that up to make sure that's right. If I'm wrong, I'll post a retraction.

Also, remember the story of the talents?

Where do the tithe commands say give 10% of your possesion.........chapter and verse please?

Actually the OT is what defined the tithe, remember those in the NT were Torah observant Jews who gave a tithe in accordance to God's commands.

Where does the NT deal with the tithe or define it?

Also with the story you cite with the women who gave (the widow's mite I believe) was she giving a tithe to the Temple, or what she giving to charity, which was a huge aspect of giving in 1st century Judaism? Does the Gospel Text say what she was giving? I think it's more than a bit of an assumption to think it was a tithe.

[novcncy]

Where do the tithe commands say give 10% of your possesion.........chapter and verse please?

Actually the OT is what defined the tithe, remember those in the NT were Torah observant Jews who gave a tithe in accordance to God's commands.

Where does the NT deal with the tithe or define it?

Also with the story you cite with the women who gave (the widow's mite I believe) was she giving a tithe to the Temple, or what she giving to charity, which was a huge aspect of giving in 1st century Judaism? Does the Gospel Text say what she was giving? I think it's more than a bit of an assumption to think it was a tithe.
Actually, Jesus said she gave ALL that she had.....I think there's something in there for us somewhere.....

[TwinCrier]

People often say, "Money is the root of all evil." This is a misquote of, "The love of money is the root of all evil."
(1 Tim 6:10)
I hear that said often on this forum, but ya know, I have yet to meet anyone who hated money. ^_^

[christian73]

Actually, Jesus said she gave ALL that she had.....I think there's something in there for us somewhere.....
I agree. The woman gave with a cheerful and willing heart. I think Jesus was trying to say that this woman gave for the right reasons, and she gave all she had. I think this should be applied to tithing.

[IndyRider]

IMO 10% is a far cry from being generous.

Your opinion could be better described as a gross generalization.

10% of A-Rod's salary $25 Million is $2.5 million...a rather tiny donation compared to the surplus of $22.5 million he has left over before taxes.

10% of a local teacher's salary $32,000 is $3,200...This could be quite a sizeable or "generous" donation from those people.

Futhermore, we must not only obey the letter of the law, but we must also observe and follow the spirit of the law. As several have said before, we serve a sovereign God who has bestowed many blessing on us in this world. It seems just to give back an offering to Him. This gift should be in the form of our thoughts, our time, our interested, and our worldly possessions.

Add my $0.02 to the pile.

[novcncy]

I agree. The woman gave with a cheerful and willing heart. I think Jesus was trying to say that this woman gave for the right reasons, and she gave all she had. I think this should be applied to tithing.
Well, go ahead...give everything you have.....

That, I think, is the actual point.

[Andyman_1970]

Your opinion could be better described as a gross generalization.

So John the Baptist wasn’t advocating that a mark of this new Jesus community that was being born was radical generosity?

10% of A-Rod's salary $25 Million is $2.5 million...a rather tiny donation compared to the surplus of $22.5 million he has left over before taxes.
10% of a local teacher's salary $32,000 is $3,200...This could be quite a sizeable or "generous" donation from those people.

What’s your point? So because someone makes less they are not suppose to be generous every chance they get? Even on a limited income we indulge ourselves in things that we could regularly go without and use that left over money to take care of the needs of those around us.

Futhermore, we must not only obey the letter of the law, but we must also observe and follow the spirit of the law.

Chapter and verse where we as Gentile Christians are suppose to follow all 613 commands of God in His Law?

As several have said before, we serve a sovereign God who has bestowed many blessing on us in this world.

Blessing in the Bible is always instrumental, we are blessed so that we can bless others…….

It seems just to give back an offering to Him. This gift should be in the form of our thoughts, our time, our interested, and our worldly possessions.

By blessing others we are giving it back to Him………..giving to help others in the tradition that Jesus came from was considered the highest form of worship.

[IndyRider]

"Chapter and verse where we as Gentile Christians are suppose to follow all 613 commands of God in His Law?"
--Andyman1970

I would just love to add that I love when people say, "chapter and verse."

"By blessing others we are giving it back to Him...." --Andyman1970

That is what I said. We should not only "tithe" our money, but we should give from every part of ourselves to others for the glory of God.