A Reminder

[mlqurgw]

Just thought it would be prudent to remind you folks that it wasn't a Calvinist who started all the threads that are causing contention. Admittedly, I can be extremely contentious. Starting one or two threads a day to stir contention is ridiculous. I have always understood that to be trolling.

[Jim1927]

Perhaps he is trying to convince himself. He might better use stronger arguments. So far they have been weak and hardly worth a response.

Cheers,

Jim

[Matthan]

I still do not understand why some people are so hung up on calling themselves "Calvinites" or anything else. Do they accept the teachings and doctrines of Calvin over those found in Scripture? Do they think that the wisdom of men, or any particular man, is anything more than foolish drivel to God.

Why not just claim the Bible as their only creed and be done with all the debating?

Matthan

[Jim1927]

Like Baptists, we were named by our enemies. Calvinism defines a system of theology, the orderly garden of scripture. It is biblical in every sense of the word. Obviously we don't follow John Calvin; we immerse for starters; we have a different form of church government; we live in the 21st century, and I am English.

If you asked me what I believe, is it not easier to say Calvinist than to say a biblicist, which is as nebulous as a term can be....everyone claims biblicist!

Cheers,

Jim

[christian73]

I still do not understand why some people are so hung up on calling themselves "Calvinites" or anything else. Do they accept the teachings and doctrines of Calvin over those found in Scripture? Do they think that the wisdom of men, or any particular man, is anything more than foolish drivel to God.

Why not just claim the Bible as their only creed and be done with all the debating?

Matthan


:amen: I agree.

[Matthan]

Thank you.

[arunma]

I still do not understand why some people are so hung up on calling themselves "Calvinites" or anything else. Do they accept the teachings and doctrines of Calvin over those found in Scripture? Do they think that the wisdom of men, or any particular man, is anything more than foolish drivel to God.

Why not just claim the Bible as their only creed and be done with all the debating?

Matthan

If you ask me (and I mean no disrespect), I don't think that's the best idea. The problem with taking the Bible alone as a "creed" is that a lot of people claim to believe in the Bible. Mormons believe that the Bible is true, as do Jehovah's Witnesses and Bahais. Muslims also believe that the Bible contains a certain degree of truth. Even Jews believe in a portion of the Bible, despite that Judaism denies the very Author of truth! The problem with citing the Bible as a creed is that unfortunately, the Scriptures are easy to abuse. Indeed, Scripture itself records that Satan is master of abusing the Scriptures.

The other day I was having a conversation with a professing Christian and fellow physics student. I started this conversation when he claimed that though he is a Christian, he doesn't "go out converting people." Apparently he believes that while faith in Christ will save a person, unbelievers will be reincarnated until they have faith in Christ. I spent a good deal of time politely arguing the point with him. I even quoted Hebrews 9:27, and he responded that the text says "it is appointed for man...," indicating that a man could come back as an animal. Of course he admitted that reincarnation is not defensable without appealing to beliefs outside of the Bible, but he felt that his own opinions could carry some authority.

Notice that it is easy to reinterpret any text by simply dismissing the context and the author's most likely intent. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life," but postmodernism interprets this to mean that Jesus is invisibly present in any religion that has truth. If Jesus had plainly said, "anyone who doesn't believe in me will go to hell, and false religions don't count," then someone could simply reinterpret it to mean that even unbelievers have some level of faith in Christ in spite of their false religious beliefs.

That, in my opinion, is why we need creeds. Throughout the history of the church, godly men have produced fine creeds such as the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the creeds of the various ecumenical councils, the Westminster Confession, etc. The great thing about creeds is that they can be constantly revised and updated. They can't be cleverly reinterpreted, because the original authors are usually still around to clarify the meaning of their statements of faith. Christianity without creeds can easily descend into heresy by less-than-academic retranslations of the Bible, denial of the authority of Scripture, and the mixing of false religions with the Gospel.



I don't believe that debating is always the most healthy way for Christians to live. Within the church, there is a wide variety of opinions, such as on movies, drinking, social interactions, and even some theological issues such as views on the eucharist. At some level we need to learn to keep our faith to ourselves and get along with each other. As it says,The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. (Romans 14:22)But there are issues on which we cannot compromise, such as the deity of Christ, the resurrection, and most importantly the Trinity. In a postmodern world that interprets the Bible to mean whatever people wish to hear, creeds are even more important today than they were in the days of the ecumenical councils.

Now as to the Calvinism issue, I'm not aware of any Calvinists who hold John Calvin's doctrines to be greater than the Bible. Calvin was wrong on several issues. I try to take the Bible at face value, and not reinterpret it in light of TULIP. But this is certainly a valid issue that you raise. The Bible must take precedence over any man's writings.

[Phileoeklogos]

Sorry for being AWOL so long, just wanted to chime in, most of the people I meet or converse with who " just believe the Bible ", just don't, they believe the parts they agree with, what they learned in Sunday School 50 years ago, etc ...,

but when someone tells me " I'm a "... 5 pointer, Wesleyan Arminan, Pentecostal... fill in the blank, at least I have some idea of where they stand on certain issues.