The Ban

[JesusServant]

The ban has always been a tough issue for me in God's word.  If you don't know, the ban is when God has called for a people or nation to be utterly destroyed by God's people.  They were to kill men, women and children, cattle and burn them all and plants.  Nothing was to survive by the treasures (gold, silver, etc) and that was to be left to the treasury of the Lord.  This is the part that gets me.  I mean, I can reconsile GOd wanted to destroy a heathen people, especially if He foresaw that they would one day rise and destroy God people before His plans could be fulfilled, but it's the treasure part that gets me.  Here's an example...

The famous story of the shout taking down the walls of Jericho, the part that bothers me is what Joshua says...

(Jos 6:19) But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, [are] consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.

(Jos 6:20) So the people shouted when [the priests] blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

(Jos 6:21) And they utterly destroyed all that [was] in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword.

With as much as we're taught in the New Testament, why would God care about gold and silver?  I was reading this this weekend and the only thing I could do was to let it go that Joshua was greedy and it was really for his benefit moreso than God's.  I know I'm probably going to get slammed for that, but I'm having a hard time seeing it any other way.  Could some of you post your thoughts on this and help me with it?  This is difficult for me.  Thanks!

[Auntie]

JesusServant, I agree, it is difficult for me too. I don't think Joshua was greedy so much, just that it was probably a cultural thing. If they had left all the gold and silver behind, then scavengers would have come and scooped it all up anyway.

I'm sure someone else could give you a better answer than mine.:) But also, I believe EVERYTHING on this earth belongs to God, including the gold and silver. So it seems right to me that those things would be put into the Lord's treasury. I think Joshua was trying to honor God and show his thanks to God for Divine guidance at Jericho.

[Didymus]

you will notice that the riches went to the LORD and not to anyone s personal gain. i suggest you read warren weirsbe s be series book on joshua for an explanation as to why everyone had to be killed. basically it was because they refused to repent. you will rmember Rahab and her family were spared
In the conquests of other cities the spoils were divided among the soldiers. i think the livestock were considered as some kind of sacrfice to God.

[JesusServant]

I completely agree Auntie, of course it's all His. :) But wasn't Joshua in control of the "Lord's Treasury"? Maybe I just have a questioning mind and wonder about Joshua's motives.

To Didymus: But to say it didn't go towards anyone's gain would be naive wouldn't it? Why didn't they cast it into the sea or something?

[Chris†opher Paul]

Does God ever bless you with money, JS? Same thing.

[Didymus]

god told Joshua what to do so Joshua had to do it. i know that may not be much of an answer but it is the best one I can think of. Don t try to read something into the passage that isn t there.

[seebs]

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those infants, they're totally unrepentant.

[SUNSTONE]

When you give to God, its not for Him, its for you. A pastor said this past month.

God is based on giving, everything that God did, or wants, starts with giving. God gave man life, God gave man the promise, Jesus gave His life for us, Jesus said no greater gift can a man give than for him to lay down his life for his friend.

God wants us to be like Him, a giver. (All of this isn't word for word)
Why did God create us? Because God is love, and what do you do with love? You give it away. God wants a family, a really big family. :clap:

God gave a promise that if you pay your tithes, you shall be blessed, and He will rebuke the destroyer.

I don't know about you, but I would love for God to rebuke any kind of destroyer in my life. :)

[SUNSTONE]

Today at 03:26 PM seebs said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=703349#post703349)

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those infants, they're totally unrepentant.



This could go two ways.

1. If there innocent they won't get judged unfairly, remember there is no set number of years you will live.Everyone dies at some time or another.
2. If God saw there future and judged them according to what we can't see, then God is also just.

[Susan]

OK, I'm going to get slammed even harder for this, but I just want to mention it. I'm not losing my faith or anything, but this kind of gnaws at me.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2+Samuel+30&NIV_version=yes&language=english&x=16&y=13

Why did God do this? From the text, there is no indication that the Israelites were doing anything to make Him angry (in other texts such as these, it indicates that someone was committing major sin of some sort such as idolatry or greed) yet He becomes angry, incites David to sin, and then punishes 70,000 (IIRC) people for David's sin.

:confused: :scratch:

[Andrew]

but it's the treasure part that gets me.

perhaps its becos you dont believe in a God who prospers his people with gold and silver. ie to you Christians cant be wealthy -- that sort of traditional beliefs. to me it's really not a problematic verse.

why did God tell his people to destroy all those people (prevalent in the OT)? well one other explanation is that of the giants. The Amalikite, Raphites, --- all the races with the names ending with "-ites" are the giant races -- ie not pure humans. in short, God was doing mankind a favour by wiping out completely these races. i subscribe to this belief. and it has a lot to do with the giants in Noah's time.

anyway, another topic altogether.

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 05:25 PM Susan said this in Post #10 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=703877#post703877)

OK, I'm going to get slammed even harder for this, but I just want to mention it. I'm not losing my faith or anything, but this kind of gnaws at me.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2+Samuel+30&NIV_version=yes&language=english&x=16&y=13

Why did God do this? From the text, there is no indication that the Israelites were doing anything to make Him angry (in other texts such as these, it indicates that someone was committing major sin of some sort such as idolatry or greed) yet He becomes angry, incites David to sin, and then punishes 70,000 (IIRC) people for David's sin.

:confused: :scratch:




I asked about that same subject early on here.  SSV helped me with it in the IDD area.  My question, however, was, was it satan who duped David into the census or was it God who asked him to do it and he didn't do it properly.  Also, I wondered if this wasn't the people simply blaming God for something bad happening to them, but this is all for another thread I suppose.

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 08:07 PM Andrew said this in Post #11 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=704245#post704245)



perhaps its becos you dont believe in a God who prospers his people with gold and silver. ie to you Christians cant be wealthy -- that sort of traditional beliefs. to me it's really not a problematic verse.

why did God tell his people to destroy all those people (prevalent in the OT)? well one other explanation is that of the giants. The Amalikite, Raphites, --- all the races with the names ending with "-ites" are the giant races -- ie not pure humans. in short, God was doing mankind a favour by wiping out completely these races. i subscribe to this belief. and it has a lot to do with the giants in Noah's time.

anyway, another topic altogether.



No I believe He will prosper His people.  Just like the Gospel tells us, "seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you."  I believe God wants to prosper us in all possible ways but I also think He wants us to earn it.  Some teachers today are selling God and telling people if you give them your money God will give you more in return and I think that's a very false teaching... anyways, again I'm getting off subject :sorry:

[Susan]

Yesterday at 06:07 PM Andrew said this in Post #11 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=704245#post704245)


why did God tell his people to destroy all those people (prevalent in the OT)? well one other explanation is that of the giants. The Amalikite, Raphites, --- all the races with the names ending with "-ites" are the giant races -- ie not pure humans. in short, God was doing mankind a favour by wiping out completely these races. i subscribe to this belief. and it has a lot to do with the giants in Noah's time.



This has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen over this. According to this logic, the IsraelITES were not "pure humans."

Nowhere does it say in the Bible that the tribes Israel had to displace were inhuman. That is conjecture that has no basis in Scripture.

[Susan]

Today at 12:03 PM JesusServant said this in Post #12 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=705945#post705945)




I asked about that same subject early on here.  SSV helped me with it in the IDD area.  My question, however, was, was it satan who duped David into the census or was it God who asked him to do it and he didn't do it properly.  Also, I wondered if this wasn't the people simply blaming God for something bad happening to them, but this is all for another thread I suppose.




Can you link me to that thread? I'd really like to know. . .

[Andrew]

This has to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen over this. According to this logic, the IsraelITES were not "pure humans."


you are obviously ignorant abt this topic then. I wasnt referring to the Israelites but the Nephilim or giants of old. -- Amalakites, Raphites, etc. see...

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/giants.html

Some teachers today are selling God and telling people if you give them your money God will give you more in return and I think that's a very false teaching

tht is actually based on scripture but of cse , some have abused it. God's economic system is basically this: the more you give (to him) the more you receive. you reap what you sow.

[Susan]

Well, it is nice to know your low opinion of me has not changed. Although I am ignorant indeed, I don't like others parading my ignorance about to prove how intelligent they are.

AFAIK the giants were all allegedly killed in the Flood.

[Blindfaith]

Let's get the conversation back on track without making it personal..........

[JesusServant]

Yesterday at 10:04 PM Susan said this in Post #15 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=707132#post707132)




Can you link me to that thread? I'd really like to know. . .




http://www.christianforums.com/threads/30685.html

Enjoy!  :wave:

[aus_koala]

JesusServant,
The money was to be given to the Lord. This would indicate that the money was to be used to build the Church. This could mean using it to feed the starving hoards that were following behind the army, rebuilding the walls of a city, building a new temple for people to frequent, assisting orphans and widows, etc.

I don't think it was the greed of Joshua that required the money to be put into the treasury, I can understand that an instruction like that could come from God. Now whether the PEOPLE that were in charge of the treasury then used the gold and silver correctly is a seperate issue.

[Lotar]

I believe that the reason that the "spoils of war" went to the treasury, was setting an example for tithing, ie giving from the first fruits. From then on the Israelites got to keep it for themselves.

Susan and Andrew, Simma Da Na :D

Please try to be polite when you argue. ;)