Question from former Methodist

[MikeMcK]

Hello,

While I'm no longer a Methodist, I did grow up in the UMC (my grandparents founded our church) and still have a lot of affection for it.

If I were still a Methodist, and I denied such essential Christian teachings as the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the uniqueness of Christ's atonement as God's plan for man's salvation, that Jesus died for my sin, and denied the Trinity, would you consider me to be a Christian?

I mean, if I denied four major points of Nicene Creed, what would you think?

What would your attitude be toward me? Would I be allowed to participate in the ministries of your church?

[sinner/SAVED]

You would be welcome to attend our services, but would probably be denied membership.

The membership vows of the UMC require that you acknowledge Christ as your savior and most of the time either the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed are recited and acknowledged during the membership ceremony.

My personal attitude toward you would be that I love a challenge and you would be a challenge to me.

[markbelieves]

Hello,

While I'm no longer a Methodist, I did grow up in the UMC (my grandparents founded our church) and still have a lot of affection for it.

If I were still a Methodist, and I denied such essential Christian teachings as the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the uniqueness of Christ's atonement as God's plan for man's salvation, that Jesus died for my sin, and denied the Trinity, would you consider me to be a Christian?

I mean, if I denied four major points of Nicene Creed, what would you think?

What would your attitude be toward me? Would I be allowed to participate in the ministries of your church?

I would agree with the previous post that you are welcome to attend but I can't see that you would become a member while denying the most important aspects of Christianity. You should not participate in communion either, but based on your beliefs, I doubt that you would want to.

In answer to your first question, would I consider you a Christian, the answer would be no. Not while denying the saving Grace of God offered through Jesus Christ.

Grace and Peace to you,

Mark

[Nebmaatisus]

You clearly are not Christian, but I would just love to drain a pint or two in your company. We would certainly have interesting discussions which might do a world of good to us both. Pity you live out there in the Wild West, so we propably will never meet.

[MoodyBlue]

All are welcome.

[MikeMcK]

Thanks for your answers, guys.

They're more or less what I said.

[Qyöt27]

My personal feelings on the issue would be that whatever the situation is, the final decision is God's. A person's standing with Him is between them and Him, and there are a lot of factors involved therein. In short: I don't think I would say one way or the other. It would be pretty clear that it's not orthodox Christianity at any rate - whether nonorthodox believers are considered Christian is something that I would rather leave in God's domain, just as I would with the fate of those adhering to other faiths.

[Texas Lynn]

I don't know. Orthodoxy's an elusive and impossible goal. You might fit in better with the Unitarians.

[MikeMcK]

Thanks for your answers.

Here is my dilema.

I post on several message boards and, on one of them, there is someone posting who holds to these beliefs (or lack of them, anyway) and they are allowed to post under a Christian icon and in Christian Only forums.

The board's rules clearly state that, to be allowed to post as a Christian and post in Christian Only fora, one must hold to the Nicene Creed and the Biblical teaching of the Trinity.

This person does not.

I've reported them for this, and I believe others have, as well.

A moderator got back to me and told me that another mod was "taking care of it". This other mod happens to be a United Methodist pastor.

Clearly, nothing is being done, even though she keeps on affirming her beliefs on these things and denying the Nicene Creed and the Trinity.

Never mind that these things don't pass the board's doctrinal requirements to post as a Christian, I just can't understand why a United Methodist pastor would be so careless about these essential doctrines.

[Texas Lynn]

Thanks for your answers.

Here is my dilema.

I post on several message boards and, on one of them, there is someone posting who holds to these beliefs (or lack of them, anyway) and they are allowed to post under a Christian icon and in Christian Only forums.

The board's rules clearly state that, to be allowed to post as a Christian and post in Christian Only fora, one must hold to the Nicene Creed and the Biblical teaching of the Trinity.

This person does not.

I've reported them for this, and I believe others have, as well.

A moderator got back to me and told me that another mod was "taking care of it". This other mod happens to be a United Methodist pastor.

Clearly, nothing is being done, even though she keeps on affirming her beliefs on these things and denying the Nicene Creed and the Trinity.

Never mind that these things don't pass the board's doctrinal requirements to post as a Christian, I just can't understand why a United Methodist pastor would be so careless about these essential doctrines.

I would encourage you to be charitable about such things and avoid behaving in the manner of Gladys Kravitz about it. If you say you're a Christian the definition of such is between you and Christ. And so it is for everyone else and that's good.

[MikeMcK]

I would encourage you to be charitable about such things and avoid behaving in the manner of Gladys Kravitz about it.

I'm not.

It's not a matter of just being a busybody. I've even had moderators tell me that we were correct for reporting it.

The reason I did it is that we have a lot of weaker brothers and sisters and a lot of people who are very new to the faith. If someone comes on and starts saying these things, then what message is that sending to them?

What is it saying about the board that this would give the appearance that the board condones these views as representative of acceptable Christian doctrine?

If you say you're a Christian the definition of such is between you and Christ. And so it is for everyone else and that's good.

I don't think that's correct. The board in question says that members are not allowed to question the salvation or claims to Christianity of other members, and I've been very careful not to do that.

However, the Bible does say that we're responsible for one another and, as such, if one of us sees someone claiming to be a brother or sister in Christ, who is following heresy, I believe we have a responsibility to that person to reach out and correct them before they have to stand before God and account for it.

I would much preferred to contact her pastor, but she says that she does not and will not be a part of a local, Biblical fellowship of believers.

So, I did the next best thing that I could.

I approached her with my concerns and explained to her what the Bible teaches about these things.

She refused to listen.

After she repeated these beliefs in another thread, another poster and I went to her together.

Again, she refused to listen.

It was only after that, that I contacted the board's administration.

Now, I realize that the guidelines I tried to follow were directed to the local church and not an internet message board, but under the circumstances, I believe that this was a close to the Biblical model as we could reasonably get.

My problem, though, remains one of why this Methodist pastor cannot see the doctrinal problems with these statements, when every other person I've asked about this sees it so clearly.

[herev]

Thanks for your answers.

Here is my dilema.

I post on several message boards and, on one of them, there is someone posting who holds to these beliefs (or lack of them, anyway) and they are allowed to post under a Christian icon and in Christian Only forums.

The board's rules clearly state that, to be allowed to post as a Christian and post in Christian Only fora, one must hold to the Nicene Creed and the Biblical teaching of the Trinity.

This person does not.

I've reported them for this, and I believe others have, as well.

A moderator got back to me and told me that another mod was "taking care of it". This other mod happens to be a United Methodist pastor.

Clearly, nothing is being done, even though she keeps on affirming her beliefs on these things and denying the Nicene Creed and the Trinity.

Never mind that these things don't pass the board's doctrinal requirements to post as a Christian, I just can't understand why a United Methodist pastor would be so careless about these essential doctrines.
hello Mike
as I am the United Methodist Pastor involved in this, I would appreciate it if you just contacted me directly about your concerns. It is no secret to any who have followed your posts on the issue whom you are referring to. As such, we don't need public threads to hash out your concerns about a specific member. I will not and can not discuss my private conversations with the member in question. I have not been now or ever CARELESS about someone's faith, salvation, or adherance to any particular doctrine. I am, in fact, far from careless in making judgments on someone's esle's eternal destiny (as if that were ever MY job). If you have specific questions i can answer without breaching confidentiality or generic questions I can answer to help you understand my thoughts, I will (not that I expect you to agree, but perhaps understand more fully) be glad to assist. Otherwise, I'm asking that you cease and desist (especially in WP, where we tend to be very open to other's views) discussing this member in public.
Your concerns have not been ignored, nor is my work on this matter completed. Perhaps you should just let the system work and let go of this particluar issue as it seems to be bordering on obsession (please not the words "seems to be" and "bordering" here, not suggesting that you are obsessed, but that it is beginning to appear that way). And your interpretation of the poster in question is far from certain, it is your interpretation, nothing more.
My PM box is open.
this thread is closed