Armenia and the Caucases

[irishseventysix]

I have found myself experiencing a particular fascination with Eastern Europe and the Caucases. In fact, I have a map of Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan in my cubicle at work.

My questions might seem odd, but I'm curious as to the state of the OOC in Armenia...how strong has she and her adherents been with regard to the State...especially since independence?

What's it like there, politically, culturally, and especially spiritually?

And if the EOC and OOC were to reunite, how might that affect the issues of the region with communion being realized between the Armenian, Georgian, and Russian churches? In relation to the influence of Islam in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Iran, Turkey, and Kazakhstan? Politically, I realize that issues are still precarious with Russia/Chechnya, Georgia/Russia and Armenia/Azerbaijan.

I'm just curious and I wondered if anyone here could let me know.

Thanks!

[Yeznik]

I have found myself experiencing a particular fascination with Eastern Europe and the Caucases. In fact, I have a map of Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan in my cubicle at work.

My questions might seem odd, but I'm curious as to the state of the OOC in Armenia...how strong has she and her adherents been with regard to the State...especially since independence?

What's it like there, politically, culturally, and especially spiritually?

And if the EOC and OOC were to reunite, how might that affect the issues of the region with communion being realized between the Armenian, Georgian, and Russian churches? In relation to the influence of Islam in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Iran, Turkey, and Kazakhstan? Politically, I realize that issues are still precarious with Russia/Chechnya, Georgia/Russia and Armenia/Azerbaijan.

I'm just curious and I wondered if anyone here could let me know.

Thanks!


From the 3 countries that you have mentioned Armenia is the oldest. The modern country of Armenia is about 1 /10th the size of historical Armenia.

Here is the size of historical Armenia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Armenian_empire.gif

Armenia is surrounded by 2 major Muslim countries that are extremely hostile to Armenia, these countries are Turkey and Azerbaijan. Then Armenians pride themselves by being the first Christian nation in the world and since to fall of the Soviet Union there has been a great re-birth of spirituality in Armenia as in Russia. The strongest allies that Armenia has are the Russians and the Persians. The reason why there is a strong relationship between Russian and Armenia, we are the only pro-Russian country in the Caucuses, not to mention the number of contributions that the Armenians contributed to the Russians during the last 100 years. And the relation with the Persians is quite simple, we have been living together side by side for over 2000 years and we have learned to get along. The ties between the Church and state are very strong, to a Christian this a positive sign of unity. To secularists who bring foreign religions to Armenia this is considered intolerance. I cannot answer the question in regards to the political situation in Armenia since I am a part of the Diaspora. But I can tell you that the last time Armenia was independent for a long period of time has been several hundred years. Culturally its booming, since the fall of the Soviet Union, because people are allowed to have a culture besides Soviet culture. I cannot answer in regards to the spirituality of the country since I am not there, but I can tell you that there are priests and bishops that I have read about and listen to there sermons and discussions that I can hear the echo’s of our ancient Saints and wish that there were more priests and bishops like them in the world.

In regards to re-uniting with the EO church, I don’t think it would change anything. I pray one day for a re-unification between us. But I don’t think the attitudes of the neighboring countries to Armenia would change. If you have any more questions please let us know.

[irishseventysix]

Thanks for all the info! It's enlightening...

Do you know anything about Armenian-Georgian relations? I know that Georgia and Russia are on some level at odds with one another, but I'm not sure why. Also, I notice that there are various bits of land between Armenia and Azerbaijan that are in dispute or separate from the mainland of both nations: (i.e. Azerb's Nakhichevan and areas surrounding Karki and Yuxari, Armenia's claim on the Nagorno-Karabakh region and the area surrounding Artzvashen). Are these disputes because of badly drawn borders between the two nations since the fall of the USSR? Is there an active war between these nations?

Coming from a very Western (American) perspective, I am amazed that Armenian/Persian relations are the way they are. That's interesting to me.

I did know that Armenia was the first "Christian nation" (c. 308 AD) and one of the oldest nations in general. And of all the representatives of Eastern Christianity, the Armenian Church has the most complete account of the life and martyrdom of my patron saint (St. Jude of the 12 Apostles) because he ended up in Armenia and was martyred there.

How long has it been since you were there? Thanks for all the info!

[Yeznik]

Thanks for all the info! It's enlightening...

Do you know anything about Armenian-Georgian relations? I know that Georgia and Russia are on some level at odds with one another, but I'm not sure why. Also, I notice that there are various bits of land between Armenia and Azerbaijan that are in dispute or separate from the mainland of both nations: (i.e. Azerb's Nakhichevan and areas surrounding Karki and Yuxari, Armenia's claim on the Nagorno-Karabakh region and the area surrounding Artzvashen). Are these disputes because of badly drawn borders between the two nations since the fall of the USSR? Is there an active war between these nations?

Coming from a very Western (American) perspective, I am amazed that Armenian/Persian relations are the way they are. That's interesting to me.

I did know that Armenia was the first "Christian nation" (c. 308 AD) and one of the oldest nations in general. And of all the representatives of Eastern Christianity, the Armenian Church has the most complete account of the life and martyrdom of my patron saint (St. Jude of the 12 Apostles) because he ended up in Armenia and was martyred there.

How long has it been since you were there? Thanks for all the info!

Regarding the Armenian and Georgian relations, it’s very difficult. Since the Georgian country is being pulled apart by the different ethnicities living there, there has been a strong movement of nationalization among the Georgians. They have lost land to the Abkhaz and might be losing more land due to ethnic conflicts. Being that there is a nationalization movement, there has been damages to Armenian cemeteries that have been there for centuries, the has been the destroying of Armenian Churches, by supposedly making the Armenian Churches into “Orthodox” Churches. And by destroying meaning that a priest shows up with a crew and construction tools, at an already existing Armenian Church that has been there for centuries and starts, and they demolish it, saying that they are converting it to and “Orthodox” church. I would think that since both the Russians and the Georgians are EO they would have the greatest relation in the area. But we know the contrary, especially today that the Georgians have caught some Russian spies in Georgia. The reason is that Georgia is trying to be pro-Western, and since Georgia sits in Russia’s back yard that would not be very prudent for Russia.

Regarding Azerbaijan, if you had the opportunity to look at the map I posted in my previous post, and many maps of the region, the country of Azerbaijan did not exist. When the Soviet Union took over the region, they drew up a map of Azerbaijan, additionally Soviets wanted to limit the Armenia interaction with Iran, they created the region of Nakhichevan. The name of Nakhichevan is purely Armenian and it basically means “ where Noah lived”. Again with is in accord with historical Armenia. The disputes is that the Azeri’s tried to commit an ethnic cleansing of the Armenians, because the land is rich in oil. The Armenians have lived in the region of Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh) for several thousand years. There is a monastery that was built by the son of Saint Gregory the Illuminator there as well as a church he built there. Right now there is a cease fire from both sides.

The relationship between the Armenians and the Persian go back for thousands of years. The have a great deal of respect for us and the feeling is mutual.

The conversion of Armenia is the date 301 AD. In the early centuries a lot of Christians were fleeing Rome and Greece to get to Armenia as a safe haven. Your patron Saint is called (Jude) Thaddeus in the East. I would recommend reading the story of the King Armenian Abgar. Part of this story is used during the EO service of blessing icons.

Unfortunately, I have never been to Armenia, my ancestors ( and my wife )are from there. I am planning to visit there, but I would need to take at least a month off of work. Currently my situation doesn’t permit me to leave for that long of a period. I actually live in the states just like.