Advice please...

[machazure]

So, I've decided I'm going to have to leave my current fellowship. I started attending a little over a year ago with my girlfriend (who has been there 13 years with her mother). I have been called into the ministry and am currently going to bible college and so I need to be deeply involved in fellowship with some older, mature christians (btw, I am 20y/o). The reason I am leaving is because the church teaches legalistic tithing (you will be under a curse if you don't) and they are Word-Faith. Tithing is not a New Covenant practice and most people today don't understand what it was in the Old Convenant either. Anyways, I have tried talking to the pastor about the heretical teachings, lovingly I might add, and they won't listen so I am going to leave. After some long discussions, my girlfriend's eyes have been opened to the errors of thier teachings and she wants to leave despite the fact that she is doing a lot of ministry there.

Here's the problem though: her mother. She believes whole-heartedly in modern-day tithing and the word-faith/prosperity/health and wealth gospel that she told my girlfriend she can't leave the church. She believes we are in error doctrinally and doesn't even want to discuss the issues because I am in error and the Lord is not the author of confusion, so she says I am basically being used by the devil to confuse her daughter and pull her away from both her and the ministry she is being used in.

BUT, that's not it at all!! It's a wonderful church, but the people and pastors are very close-minded on their doctrines and get very defensive and believe that thier way is the true way. Please pray for me and this situation and lend advice if you have any.

In Christ,
Bradley

[j7muniz]

hi sounds like your having some difficulty with this tithing thing. anyways I'm so glad to read that you are going to bible collage. I know that you will learn lots there. I hope that hebrew will be one of these things that you learn cuz if you do study it you will learn that when Jesus waas speaking at the last supper He really said this covenant I re-new. See there is no old covenant or new covenant. its all the same one with the only difference being the Jesus became our atonment. Everything eles stayed the same. Uh let me re-phrase that. After Jesus was raised from the dead we became more accountable than before.
I know I've sais alot of things but I cant go any further without saying that all this is scripturally sound. would you like for me to expound for you?

[machazure]

Yes, please, because what you just said goes against 2000 years of church history. According to Luke 22:20, the word 'new', in the greek not hebrew... means:

kainos
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new ,especially in freshness;

Says nothing about 'renewing' the old...

And in
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

I think that is enough to say the new covenant is a new covenant and not a 'renewing' of the old where we have to keep all the old covenant practices.

[j7muniz]

Yes, please, because what you just said goes against 2000 years of church history. According to Luke 22:20, the word 'new', in the greek not hebrew... means:

kainos
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new ,especially in freshness;

Says nothing about 'renewing' the old...

And in
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

I think that is enough to say the new covenant is a new covenant and not a 'renewing' of the old where we have to keep all the old covenant practices.
okay than, if the old testiment isnt for you than I am sure that you have already torn it out of your bible right?

[machazure]

No, the old testament is for us new covenant believers... Jesus said concerning the Scripture of the Old Testament:

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

and...

Joh 5:46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
Joh 5:47 "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

There is a lot of history and knowledge about God in the old testament that is for us in the new testament. We should never discard it. But that doesn't mean that all of the laws and ordinaces apply to us because we are in a different dispensation, a new covenant, that is better than the old one.

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees (the law and ordinances of the old covenant) against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.


Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

Are you a Messianic Christian or Seventh Day Adventist by chance? I hold to a dispensational view and view the new covenant as a totally new one that the old covenant foreshadowed and Christ fulfilled.

[j7muniz]

No, the old testament is for us new covenant believers... Jesus said concerning the Scripture of the Old Testament:

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

and...

Joh 5:46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
Joh 5:47 "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

There is a lot of history and knowledge about God in the old testament that is for us in the new testament. We should never discard it. But that doesn't mean that all of the laws and ordinaces apply to us because we are in a different dispensation, a new covenant, that is better than the old one.

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees (the law and ordinances of the old covenant) against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.


Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

Are you a Messianic Christian or Seventh Day Adventist by chance? I hold to a dispensational view and view the new covenant as a totally new one that the old covenant foreshadowed and Christ fulfilled.
haha you pretty much wrote all the scriptures that i was planning on useing during the course of our conversation.

[ScottF]

I'm assuming you are talking about a United Methodist church here since that is the icon on your profile, correct?

[SecretOfFatima]

So, I've decided I'm going to have to leave my current fellowship. I started attending a little over a year ago with my girlfriend (who has been there 13 years with her mother). I have been called into the ministry and am currently going to bible college and so I need to be deeply involved in fellowship with some older, mature christians (btw, I am 20y/o). The reason I am leaving is because the church teaches legalistic tithing (you will be under a curse if you don't) and they are Word-Faith. Tithing is not a New Covenant practice and most people today don't understand what it was in the Old Convenant either. Anyways, I have tried talking to the pastor about the heretical teachings, lovingly I might add, and they won't listen so I am going to leave. After some long discussions, my girlfriend's eyes have been opened to the errors of thier teachings and she wants to leave despite the fact that she is doing a lot of ministry there.

Here's the problem though: her mother. She believes whole-heartedly in modern-day tithing and the word-faith/prosperity/health and wealth gospel that she told my girlfriend she can't leave the church. She believes we are in error doctrinally and doesn't even want to discuss the issues because I am in error and the Lord is not the author of confusion, so she says I am basically being used by the devil to confuse her daughter and pull her away from both her and the ministry she is being used in.

BUT, that's not it at all!! It's a wonderful church, but the people and pastors are very close-minded on their doctrines and get very defensive and believe that thier way is the true way. Please pray for me and this situation and lend advice if you have any.

In Christ,
Bradley
If i may throw in my 2 cents...

Not sure where you live, but I would like to recommend to you an online bible study at the "St Paul center for biblical theology (http://www.salvationhistory.com/online/index.cfm)".

There is also another site that you may find very helpful
http://www.deepinscripture.com/