What about These Books

[grov]

Has anybody read either of the following:

Reading Scripture with the Church Fathers by Christopher A. Hall,
(Downers Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press, 1998).

The Word in the Desert: Scripture and the quest for holiness in early Christian Monasticism, by Douglas Burton-Christie, Oxford University Press, New York, NY, 1993

They're on a reading list compiled by Fr. Evan at St. Catherine Greek Orthodox in Denver, as part of his audio study of Matthew (podcast).
http://www.stcatherinechurch.org/131 or via iTunes

He said they represent a growing movement amongst scholars to look to the saints as the ones who "got it right" concerning proper interpretation of scripture. InterVarsity and Oxford Press are quite the heavyweights.

Would be interested to know whether these are high on anyone's recommended reading list before I go visit Amazon, and whether anyone has heard of this recent movement away from the PhD's to the Saints.

Thanks,
George

[Teke]

If you want to read the fathers on the scriptures, they are online. Here is a link to St John Chrysostom's homilies on St Matthew.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.toc.html

Likely better than those books. ;)

[Akathist]

If you want to read the fathers on the scriptures, they are online. Here is a link to St John Chrysostom's homilies on St Matthew.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.toc.html

Likely better than those books. ;)

I really love that website! I read there often.

However, I have heard of the first book in the list in the OP and I would like to get it to read someday. But I have not any of the books listed.

[Teke]

Well the first book cited, is one which isn't Orthodox centered. Least that's the way I'd put it.

Here is one Orthodox who has read it, and his comment.

I found this book to be very useful, but in a rather limited way. While Hall clearly is a master in his field, he falls into the common pitfall of most books of this sort. In a sense this is unavoidable, but then the title should not be taken to mean (or meant to mean) that the book covers all the main themes on a given subject in the fahters. I do not mean the minor opinions of some main fathers either. For example, in his discussion on the human condition, ,Hall fails to represent the Eastern Orthodox tradition in any way. What is represented is the typical Augustine vs. Pelagius dispute with the mediating roman council's declaration on the matter. This misses so much of what the eastern fathers have to say on the matter. Again, this is a great book, but it is not representative of the fathers as a whole. It fails to capture the patristic mind.I guess my qualm is more with what I expected thebook ot be based upon teh fathers and not with the book as such, but the title should really be something more like "Selected themes from selected fathers". But who, besides geeks like me, would read a book with that title?
Enjoy the read!And with both eastern and western fathers presented in this book. The critique, "is represented the typical Augustine vs Pelagius dispute ......with the Roman councils declaration on the matter", says it all for me. Along with "it fails to represent Orthodox tradition in any way" and "misses so much of what the eastern fathers have to say on the matter."

Why not just read online or buy St Athanasius on the Incarnation,
and St Basil on The Human Condition.

If one wants to study the development of Christianity and the theology, then a likely better choice is "The Way to Nicaea" by John Behr, which is a three volume series. Volume one being Formation of Christian Theology. Not an easy read for a beginner tho.

The fathers original writings are much easier to read than someone, who may not even be Orthodox,on a compilation of east and west fathers. Which no one book of that sort is going to address complete Orthodox thought on the matter of the Greek fathers fully.

I would suggest easier steps of less confusion. Read the fathers themselves. Then if you want to get into development of theology etc. Begin with a basic understanding of the matter of doctrine, dogma, and church authority. A good easy to read book on this is "Upon This Rock" by David Dale.

Many of the fathers alone explain things quite well. "The Path of Salvation" by St Theophan the Recluse is a great book to read. As is St Theophan the Recluses' "The Path of Prayer" (especially the first sermon, quite basic). St Theophan is completely Orthodox in his writings and toward our understanding.

[grov]

Thanks for the advice! I'm adding your recommendations to my list. Glad I didn't rush over to Amazon too quickly.

George

[Teke]

I didn't even comment on the second book. It is pretty expensive. And one can just as easily find out about monasticism by the fathers who began monasticism. St Basil and St Gregory, two brothers who became bishops. Their sister St Macrina (my patron saint) is who gave them the idea. Her and her mother sold all and lived a monastic life. St Basil and St Gregory drew from the example.

But that is why I gave the reference of St Theophan the Recluse. And his works, The Path of Salvation and The Path of Prayer. He explains well hesychasm found in prayer.

And the lectio divina practice is also contemplation such as a monastic would go about. As did the early fathers, who had more time than us to contemplate the scriptures in prayer.

But if you want an expensive book that talks about some of the different flavors of monasticism, then that book could offer some info.

Are you seeking to become monastic or just learn of hesychasm (stillness in prayer, praying without ceasing)?

[grov]

Are you seeking to become monastic or just learn of hesychasm (stillness in prayer, praying without ceasing)?
I might have pursued monasticism if I'd known about it many years ago, but I have a family (dear wife, Andrea Elizabeth who hangs around here and 6 kiddos). But I am interested in the discipline, the practices, including hesychism, and in Fr. Evan's statement on his podcast that these monastics and saints are looked to as the best authority there is concerning correct interpretation of scripture, since they lived it.

I've never heard the term "lectio divina" - what is that?

George

[RobNJ]

I've never heard the term "lectio divina" - what is that?


http://www.centeringprayer.com/lectio.htm

[Akathist]

Well the first book cited, is one which isn't Orthodox centered. Least that's the way I'd put it.

Here is one Orthodox who has read it, and his comment.

And with both eastern and western fathers presented in this book. The critique, "is represented the typical Augustine vs Pelagius dispute ......with the Roman councils declaration on the matter", says it all for me. Along with "it fails to represent Orthodox tradition in any way" and "misses so much of what the eastern fathers have to say on the matter."

Why not just read online or buy St Athanasius on the Incarnation,
and St Basil on The Human Condition.

If one wants to study the development of Christianity and the theology, then a likely better choice is "The Way to Nicaea" by John Behr, which is a three volume series. Volume one being Formation of Christian Theology. Not an easy read for a beginner tho.

The fathers original writings are much easier to read than someone, who may not even be Orthodox,on a compilation of east and west fathers. Which no one book of that sort is going to address complete Orthodox thought on the matter of the Greek fathers fully.

I would suggest easier steps of less confusion. Read the fathers themselves. Then if you want to get into development of theology etc. Begin with a basic understanding of the matter of doctrine, dogma, and church authority. A good easy to read book on this is "Upon This Rock" by David Dale.

Many of the fathers alone explain things quite well. "The Path of Salvation" by St Theophan the Recluse is a great book to read. As is St Theophan the Recluses' "The Path of Prayer" (especially the first sermon, quite basic). St Theophan is completely Orthodox in his writings and toward our understanding.

Thanks! I didn't realize that about the first book.

Seems again to be one of those books that starts the "Early Church Fathers" out after the church was around a 1000 years old.

My former understanding of Christian History was from 33 A.D. to the 1500's was "the dark ages" so to speak and nothing but the Epistles had information about that time. And keep in mind, my undergraduate degree in college involved one of my majors being "Religion"! (of course, all but one of the professors were openly anti-Christian!)

[Aristokles]

St. Matthew?
Blessed Theophylact for me.