Daily Rituals

[JustinHesychast]

I've spoken with Father Stephen last night of the Orthodox church in my area. I was so thrilled last night on how different they believe things to be. I'm still praying for guidance, but I have pretty much decided to become Orthodox when I turn 18. My mom is weird regarding other denominations, so I have to be Baptist until I am a legal adult. However, I'd like to incorporate as many Orthodox doings in my daily life as possible that Baptists don't do, such as daily rituals and whatnot. Any suggestions?

Also, for the sign of the cross (Orthodox to right to left, right?), do I do that before and after praye or what? I've also seen rosary-like things Orthodox use. What are they? Thanks!

[kamikat]

The rosary-like things are called prayer ropes and are used to count the Jesus Prayer. I highly recommend reading the following book about the Jesus Prayer
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Prayer-Kallistos-Ware/dp/0881410136/sr=8-1/qid=1158847083/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9078430-8287152?ie=UTF8&s=books
The cross is performed anytime you say "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" in combination. Some also cross at the begining of the Our Father and at various points in the Nicene Creed. As for other rituals, it depends on how much your parents will tolerate. I found that once I started using incense, my prayer life became much richer and deeper. However, make sure it's ok with your mom. My husband hates it, so I rarely use it these days. Do you have an Orthodox prayer book? Ask your priest if he prefer a specific one. If you don't have one, http://www.antiochian.org/orthodox-prayers is a good site to get started. You might also want to follow along with the scheduled bible readingins. I don't know how often you can get to church, but some churches include the monthly reading schedule in the first Sunday of the month's bulletin. You can also find the readings here http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/index.asp?D=9/21/2006&T=10 and I know there's a way to subscribe to get the readings in e-mail, but I can't find it on that site.
kamikat

[gzt]

Most important would be praying dailiy, in the morning and in the evening before bed, reading the day's scripture readings, and praying at meals. As for making the sign of the cross, before, after, whenever. What one does with a prayer rope is one prays, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner," once for each knot.

[Oblio]

Welcome !

You can find PDF's of the daily Scripture Readings here (http://www.oca.org/Reading.asp?SID=25&ID=PDF)

[Jacob4707]

Most important would be praying dailiy, in the morning and in the evening before bed, reading the day's scripture readings, and praying at meals. As for making the sign of the cross, before, after, whenever. What one does with a prayer rope is one prays, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner," once for each knot.

When Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon was here in Dallas this February to talk about prayer, he explained how to incorporate various aspects of Christ's life into the Jesus prayer. If I recall correctly, it was things like:

Lord Jesus Christ, who as the good shepherd leaves the 99 safe sheep and looks for the sheep that has gone astray, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Etc.

I'm pretty sure it's the Habits of Daily Prayer 3-CD that you can get for $10 here:

http://www.ntom.org/orthodox/main/content/cds-and-tapes/

You can listen to Fr. Patrick here:

http://www.ancientfaithradio.com/archives.html

[RobNJ]

There's an entire prayer book online here:
http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

I printed out many of them & put them in a notebook, before I was ready to "make the plunge" & order one.

[Akathist]

Since we are listing them: here is other sources of on line prayers:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/prayers.html

http://biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Prayers/index.htm

http://oca.org/OCSelect.asp?SID=2

You can also go here and on the first page they have a link to a discription of any feasts, and the daily scripture verses: http://oca.org/

I have always liked this article on prayer: http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8634.asp

Talk to that Priest again about using the prayer rope as that is an ascetic practice and we need to always make sure that a Priest or someone who is our "Spiritual Father(Mother)" guides all ascetic practices.

I kind of doubt the Priest would have a problem with the Jesus Prayer if just recited but to start saying the prayer to open the nous is a bit advanced and therefore you need to talk to the Priest before reading any materials on that subject.

[Breaking Babylon]

But something open for everyone is Ancient Faith Radio. Anyone would appreciate it. :)

http://ancientfaithradio.com/alternatelisten.html

[ModernDaySpyridon]

I've spoken with Father Stephen last night of the Orthodox church in my area. I was so thrilled last night on how different they believe things to be. I'm still praying for guidance, but I have pretty much decided to become Orthodox when I turn 18.

That is GREAT to hear! God grant you many years!:crosseo:

My mom is weird regarding other denominations, so I have to be Baptist until I am a legal adult. However, I'd like to incorporate as many Orthodox doings in my daily life as possible that Baptists don't do, such as daily rituals and whatnot. Any suggestions?

Well, first of all,I would suggest you speak with a priest, such as this Fr. Stephen you refer to. He will be able to give you a much more accurate and pastoral answer than any of us.

However, morning prayers, evening Compline, and saying the Jesus Prayer are all time tested practices of the church, and can be used.


Also, for the sign of the cross (Orthodox to right to left, right?), do I do that before and after praye or what? I've also seen rosary-like things Orthodox use. What are they? Thanks!

Use it whenever you pray, so that your whole body can enter into prayer. A word of caution however; you must be careful that these practices, especially while you are still a minor and under your parent's care, do not offend or drive them away. There are many Orthodox practices that you can use and be changed by with out nailing icons up in your living room or burning incense (she may not believe you when you tell her the sweet-smelling smoke is helping you worship God ;) )

There is a place for boldness, but there is also a place for charity and respect, so don't let your newfound faith unnecessarily drive away the people that you love.

What one does with a prayer rope is one prays, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner," once for each knot.

Or a derivitave there-of. I usually say "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner," while our priest told my wife to stick with "Lord have mercy." It is highly pastoral, so once again (you'll find this coming up a lot on TAW;) ) talk to a priest.

Welcome home.:clap:

[gzt]

I think your priest is the Orthodox contributor to Pontifications: http://catholica.pontifications.net

[eoe]

Hate to tell you this but if you really do want to become Orthodox the place you need to start is at Obedience (typically not a favorite for teen males I imagine...) That includes speaking to your priest for instruction before you decide to start or alter any "ascesis" or spiritual work and that includes daily prayer.

Having said that....

Obedience is one thing that you can do that is VERY Orthodox that will set a great foundation for you later in life and I doubt that your mother will hardly grumble over it either.

Fasting - Speak to your priest but I know that you can likely do some sort of fasting without causing family unrest. Video games, TV, music - secular reading.... This type of thing can easily be given up without strss to others. This will also help as you go through your teen years when you will need all the self control you can muster and then some. The fathers tell us that trying to quench the passion of lust with a full belly is like trying to put out a fire by pouring oil on it. Funny eh? Dead serious tho - you have to get instruction on this - if it is TV or Meat and Cheese let it be someone else's decision - not your own.

A Constant rememberance of God is a wonderful thing indeed. Remember him at all times. Pray anytime that you can. Remember that a prayer does not have to be complex. Many times it is the more simple prayers that are the best. Use temptation as a call to prayer. Kamikat suggested the JEsus prayer book - I happen to be a fan of the other book listed on that page, The Art of Prayer. (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Prayer-Orthodox-Anthology/dp/0571191657/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-1427701-9895837?ie=UTF8)
If you are going to read one single book - I highly suggest that it be Wounded by Love, The Life and Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios. (http://www.tcgalaska.com/holycrosshermitage/HTML/books.asp)

While we Orthodox do indeed have outward behaviors - "True Orthodoxy" is almost entirely internal. It is alltogether possible that outward behaviors such as crossing yourself or metanoia (bows) or prostrations could scandalize your family and turn them off - this is exactly what you do NOT want.

My advice - focus on Obedience and developing a constant rememberance of God. Those are two of the greatest and most "Orthodox" of all the virtues you can aquire and they are totally internal. No one will ever know you are doing anything. I assure you that your parents and teachers will give you a wealth of opportunities to excercize this.

Remember - step 1 is to run this by a priest and get his instruction.

[ModernDaySpyridon]

Hate to tell you this but if you really do want to become Orthodox the place you need to start is at Obedience (typically not a favorite for teen males I imagine...) That includes speaking to your priest for instruction before you decide to start or alter any "ascesis" or spiritual work and that includes daily prayer.

Having said that....

Obedience is one thing that you can do that is VERY Orthodox that will set a great foundation for you later in life and I doubt that your mother will hardly grumble over it either.

Fasting - Speak to your priest but I know that you can likely do some sort of fasting without causing family unrest. Video games, TV, music - secular reading.... This type of thing can easily be given up without strss to others. This will also help as you go through your teen years when you will need all the self control you can muster and then some. The fathers tell us that trying to quench the passion of lust with a full belly is like trying to put out a fire by pouring oil on it. Funny eh? Dead serious tho - you have to get instruction on this - if it is TV or Meat and Cheese let it be someone else's decision - not your own.

A Constant rememberance of God is a wonderful thing indeed. Remember him at all times. Pray anytime that you can. Remember that a prayer does not have to be complex. Many times it is the more simple prayers that are the best. Use temptation as a call to prayer. Kamikat suggested the JEsus prayer book - I happen to be a fan of the other book listed on that page, The Art of Prayer. (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Prayer-Orthodox-Anthology/dp/0571191657/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-1427701-9895837?ie=UTF8)
If you are going to read one single book - I highly suggest that it be Wounded by Love, The Life and Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios. (http://www.tcgalaska.com/holycrosshermitage/HTML/books.asp)

While we Orthodox do indeed have outward behaviors - "True Orthodoxy" is almost entirely internal. It is alltogether possible that outward behaviors such as crossing yourself or metanoia (bows) or prostrations could scandalize your family and turn them off - this is exactly what you do NOT want.

My advice - focus on Obedience and developing a constant rememberance of God. Those are two of the greatest and most "Orthodox" of all the virtues you can aquire and they are totally internal. No one will ever know you are doing anything. I assure you that your parents and teachers will give you a wealth of opportunities to excercize this.

Remember - step 1 is to run this by a priest and get his instruction.


That is the best thing I have read all day. :thumbsup:

[icxn]

This article also cuts to the chase. (http://sgpm.goarch.org/Monastery/index.php?p=54)

[JustinHesychast]

I LOVE AFR! :D

About the prayers you all are linking... do Orthodox not simply "speak" to God? Are all the prayers specific? Or is it a mix?

Prayer ropes - where can I get one? My Baptist preacher agreed to buy me a prayer rope or a rosary a while back, so I could have him order one online. For the prayer you pray with the prayer rope (the Jesus Prayer like the one linked to Amazon.com?), is that the only one you pray? Is it specific like the Rosary?

Also, there's no way I can either go to church or let mom know I'm talking to an Orthodox Priest. She hasn't told me not to, so I'm not disobeying per se (plus the ten commandments says "honor" :P). I mean, don't get the wrong idea, I obey my mom and whatnot, but she is *VERY* weird concerning denominations that aren't at least vaguely similar to Baptist. Whenever I tell her I want to be Lutheran Orthodox or Catholic she gets really sad. Once she told me I'd disappoint her a lot if I ever became one... So going to church is out of the question. However, I can incorporate some things into my daily life she'd likely not notice. I could try the incense. She wouldn't notice the prayer rope. And I've done the sign of the cross before and after prayer for a while. I nearly fasted once, and she didn't have a problem with that, either.

Speaking of Fasting, I know the Orthodox have losts of specific fasts pretty much all year round. Would I be allowed to practice those, even if I am not a member of the church yet?

I'll run everything I read on here by Fr. Stephen tonight (Well.... maybe tomorrow - Gray's Anatomy premieres tonight! :P).

EDIT: I have a NASB MacArthur Study Bible. I really need study bibles, being a new Christian or whatnot. All the Christian bookstores I've been to lately don't carry Bibles like Catholics or Orthodox use. Where can I get one online that has all the books Orthodox do, and is a study Bible? Preferably in hardback, pleather, vinyl, or leather. I want something sturdier than paperback.

[kamikat]

About the prayers you all are linking... do Orthodox not simply "speak" to God? Are all the prayers specific? Or is it a mix?
speaking to God is allowed, however, I have found that the written prayers are so much more beautiful than what I can come up with on my own. If you look through the prayer linked, after a bunch of written prayers, there's usually a time allowed for personal prayer.

. For the prayer you pray with the prayer rope (the Jesus Prayer like the one linked to Amazon.com?), is that the only one you pray? Is it specific like the Rosary?
as far as I know, the Jesus prayer is the only prayer used with the prayer ropes.


Speaking of Fasting, I know the Orthodox have losts of specific fasts pretty much all year round. Would I be allowed to practice those, even if I am not a member of the church yet?


Fasting is permitted to people not in the church, however, it is best to ask your priest first. Since you are living in a non-Orthodox house, you might need to eat what is cooked for you instead of fasting. Since mom isn't too keen on you joining another church, she might see regular fasting as a negative. Our faith practices shouldn't cause disruptions in the family. Does your priest know that mom isn't too happy with all this? He will be able to discuss your fasting (or not) routine.

kamikat

[eoe]

About the prayers you all are linking... do Orthodox not simply "speak" to God? Are all the prayers specific? Or is it a mix?As Kamikat stated - yes there is a mixture. The benefit of the pre-written prayer is that they teach us how to pray. At the hightest levels - prayer is actually silent.

Prayer ropes - where can I get one? My Baptist preacher agreed to buy me a prayer rope or a rosary a while back, so I could have him order one online. For the prayer you pray with the prayer rope (the Jesus Prayer like the one linked to Amazon.com?), is that the only one you pray? Is it specific like the Rosary?Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy on me, the sinner.
That is the Jesus prayer. Seems simple yes? Try this - go stand somewhere quiet and slowly repeat it for 5 minutes. See for yourself that it is amazingly difficult. The moment you start this the demons will throw everything they have at you..

Again - Before you start ANYTHING - talk to your priest and get his instruction.

Also, there's no way I can either go to church or let mom know I'm talking to an Orthodox Priest. She hasn't told me not to, so I'm not disobeying per se (plus the ten commandments says "honor" :P). I was not talking about the commandment to honor - I was talking about Obedience which is one of the great virtues that leads to true humility.

I mean, don't get the wrong idea, I obey my mom and whatnot, but she is *VERY* weird concerning denominations that aren't at least vaguely similar to Baptist. Whenever I tell her I want to be Lutheran Orthodox or Catholic she gets really sad. Once she told me I'd disappoint her a lot if I ever became one... So going to church is out of the question.For now....

However, I can incorporate some things into my daily life she'd likely not notice.Exactly. The inward things would not scandalize anyone. They are also the most important.

I could try the incense.Outward thing. She will notice.

She wouldn't notice the prayer rope.She would if you took it out and showed it to her. Remember that prayer is a private thing.

And I've done the sign of the cross before and after prayer for a while. I nearly fasted once, and she didn't have a problem with that, either.Then maybe she is not quite so sensitive as you might think....

Speaking of Fasting, I know the Orthodox have losts of specific fasts pretty much all year round. Would I be allowed to practice those, even if I am not a member of the church yet?Get your priest's instructions and follow them. The problem with this is that you are probably not preparing your own food yet. Any specific fasting, from meat or dairy for example - is likely going to add stress to your mother and scandlaize her. It is going to be exceedingly easy for you to give your family and friends a really bad first impression of Orthodoxy and the demons will be happy to help you do so.

Remember - Step 1 - Obedience to an elder. Talk to your priest and follow his instructions. Do not add to them and do not subtract from them. Orthodoxy is often difficult. This is one of those times.

I'll run everything I read on here by Fr. Stephen tonight (Well.... maybe tomorrow - Gray's Anatomy premieres tonight! :P).

EDIT: I have a NASB MacArthur Study Bible. I really need study bibles, being a new Christian or whatnot. All the Christian bookstores I've been to lately don't carry Bibles like Catholics or Orthodox use. Where can I get one online that has all the books Orthodox do, and is a study Bible? Preferably in hardback, pleather, vinyl, or leather. I want something sturdier than paperback.Would an Orthodox Study Bible freak Mom out? If so a standard NKJV is great - good news too - save your money and buy one without the heterodox commentary. Click HERE (http://ccel.org/fathers2/) for a wealth of Orthodox commentary on the scriptures.

Also - have you downloaded e-sword yet? (http://www.e-sword.net/)

[JustinHesychast]

She is VERY sensitive. I never really pray around her, so the cross isn't a big deal. And I've told her my pastor (he really does) agrees on fasting and says its good, so... *shrug* I mean, she said I'd be a disappointment if I was Cath/Orth/Luth. :P

I'd like a study Bible assuming I can find an Orthodox one of a good translation (RSV perhaps?). I take my Bible on the go, so having commentary to better understand Scripture is great.

Oh, and as a sidenote... I was talking to someone to find out some things aren't agreed on within the Orthodox church? Um.... I thought it was? Even something such as Hell isn't agreed on. What's with that? I was really happy, too, about "the unchanged church".

[MariaRegina]

p.s. We don't use the phrase "daily rituals" instead we say "prayer rule" or "rule of prayer."

By the way, the word 'ritual' will have a weird effect on non-liturgical protestants. The funny thing is that these protestants observe rituals (habitual ways of having a service) without even noticing it.

We all have writing rituals ... sharpening our pencils in preparation for doing math exercises, turning on the computer in preparation for sending an email, cleaning our desk, doing some mental brainstorming, etc.

At all churches, regardless of the denominations, people have certain rituals or patterns of behaviors. Some protestants may come to church early to enjoy coffee and donuts and a few prayers together before the congregation arrives, then the musicians warm up their musical instruments, or the choir warms up, while others place the weekly bulletins or announcements in the proper places, lights are turned on, the pastor may put on a stole, and make sure his pulpit is in the correct place with the microphone plugged in. Then the microphone is tapped or air is blown across the speaker to make sure it works .... these are all rituals. We cannot get away from them. :)

Instead of using the term rituals, we follow a Russian or Greek typica, which details which hymns to sing and which New Testament Epistles or Gospels will be chanted. We faithfully follow certain apostolic traditions which were handed down by Christ Himself.
Dare that anyone try to improve upon Christ's Last Supper. This is why we carry on the Traditions of the Apostles rather than spontaneously invent our own little customs.

[Jacob4707]

Oh, and as a sidenote... I was talking to someone to find out some things aren't agreed on within the Orthodox church? Um.... I thought it was? Even something such as Hell isn't agreed on. What's with that? I was really happy, too, about "the unchanged church".

Well, anybody?

[ByzantineDixie]

Father Joseph of Orthodixie (http://southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/2006/09/practical-tips-for-orthodox-living.html)posted an excellent list of practical things the other day for parents to teach their children but I thought it was a great list for converts, too.

The following tips are [excerpted] from Mother Pelagia of Lesna Convent, who prefaces them with the remark: "Orthodox families train their children from a very early age to acquire religious habits, in some of which I was myself, as a Protestant, brought up."

1 - Prayers are said morning and evening, either together as a family or individually.

2 - A blessing (grace, we called it) is said by the head of the family before a meal, and a prayer of thanks afterward.

3 - On entering a room where there is an icon, cross yourself before it and say a brief prayer.

4 - When leaving one's dwelling, make the sign of the cross over the door and pray for its protection.

5 - On seeing a priest, abbot or abbess, or even when phoning them or writing to them, always ask their blessing.

6 - Before going to bed, make the sign of the cross over it and pray for protection during sleep.

7 - When you hear of anyone's death, immediately say a prayer for their eternal memory.

8 - If discussing or planning the future say: "As God wills."

9 - If you offend or hurt anyone, say as soon as possible, "Forgive me," always trying to take the blame yourself.

10 - If something turns out well, say "Praise be (to God)."

11 - If something turns out badly, if there is pain, sickness or any kind of trouble, say "Praise be to God for all things," since God is all good and, though we might not understand the purpose of these things, undoubtedly they have been permitted by God.

12 - If you begin some task, say, "God help me," or of someone else's working: "May God help you." (How sad that this expression is so perverted in the modern exclamation "God help you!")

13 - Cross yourself and say a brief prayer before even the shortest journey by car.

14 - When you receive a blessing after prayer, always remember to thank God; it if is a small thing, you may add a prayer of thanksgiving to your daily prayers or make and offering. For matters of greater import, ask a priest [for a special remembrance such as] ... the Thanksgiving Molieben (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/moliebens_e.htm#n3).

But NEVER neglect to give thanks.

Compiled from The Shepherd (http://www.saintedwardbrotherhood.org/shepherd.html).

[DavidBryan]

Oh, and as a sidenote... I was talking to someone to find out some things aren't agreed on within the Orthodox church? Um.... I thought it was? Even something such as Hell isn't agreed on. What's with that? I was really happy, too, about "the unchanged church".

Well, if what you're referring to is a carbon copy of the first-century Christians, then you're bound to be disappointed. Think of the early Christians as our baby picture. Some things have fallen out of use that once were used regularly, and some things are done now that weren't universally (or even at all) done back then. But the idea is, more or less, that the Holy Spirit will guide us, not only into all truth (as in, here's the truth, stick to it, justlikethis, forever) but also in all truth (as in, the years will pass, things will need to be reiterated, clarified, etc within different cultures, societies, etc.

How that's done is not, and has never been, easy, tidy, or fun. Even from the beginning, you had folks excommunicating each other, calling each other heretics and antichrists over issues, etc. We don't promise that the process of discerning the timeless truth of Orthodoxy within a culture (in this case, 21st Century American culture) will be quick or painless. What we do believe is that the Church will speak with one, authoritative voice when the Holy Spirit is ready for Her to do so. Until then, some things--really, the contemporary issues facing us--are fought out in the arena of theologoumenon, or theological opinion.

Welcome. Stay a while. Look at your baby pics. See how far you've come. Same with us all here in the Church.

[eoe]

Even something such as Hell isn't agreed on. What's with that?

This is actually a great thing. Take a serious look at this for a moment with me.

What is it that we know about hell? What has been revealed? There are what? 8 veses in the bible about Hell? Remember I am talking about γεενναν Hell - not ᾅδης or שׁאול the grave.


So if so little has been revealed - ask yourself this question:
How is it that protestants think they know so much about hell?

The answer to your original question is that we don't know all that much about hell. If we indeed want to preserve the faith - part of that means not making stuff up! We are not going to say dogmatically "Hell is this and that" when we do not know.

This is a HUGE point to understand about the Orthodox - when something is a mystery - we are not at all afraind to allowit to remain a mystery. We do not attempt to make up some contrived theology about it in order to explain it.

What is hell? It is a mystery. The little that we do know about it tells us that we don't want to be there. We definately know that we DO want to be with God in paradise tho.

[nikolayalexandroff]

Welcome! God bless you! Try to attend sometimes Orthodox Divine services and learn to understand sense of them.

[Akathist]

On the subject that Orthodox do not agree always on issues like "hell":
This is actually a great thing. Take a serious look at this for a moment with me.

What is it that we know about hell? What has been revealed? There are what? 8 veses in the bible about Hell? Remember I am talking about γεενναν Hell - not ᾅδης or שׁאול the grave.


So if so little has been revealed - ask yourself this question:
How is it that protestants think they know so much about hell?

The answer to your original question is that we don't know all that much about hell. If we indeed want to preserve the faith - part of that means not making stuff up! We are not going to say dogmatically "Hell is this and that" when we do not know.

This is a HUGE point to understand about the Orthodox - when something is a mystery - we are not at all afraind to allowit to remain a mystery. We do not attempt to make up some contrived theology about it in order to explain it.

What is hell? It is a mystery. The little that we do know about it tells us that we don't want to be there. We definately know that we DO want to be with God in paradise tho.

I like this answer very much.

to the OP: You will find that we Orthodox agree on a huge amount of theology. (And agree on more theology then the various Protestant denominations do.)

In a setting like this, you are more likely to notice the things we disagree on because we disagree with each other and debate. Those threads get nice and long and to be honest, can be fun and enlightening. I learn a lot by being in those debates as I get out and read and research and I find it easier to motivate myself to read and research in regard to a thread like that than anything else. (Consider this a part of my fallen nature.)

Hell is a mystery. So is the nature of God and how the sacrements "work".

My favorite phrase for all of this is "any god I can understand is not my God." I like God to be so much bigger and awesome that my mind can not fully grasp Him.

[ModernDaySpyridon]

Hell is a mystery. So is the nature of God and how the sacrements "work".

My favorite phrase for all of this is "any god I can understand is not my God." I like God to be so much bigger and awesome that my mind can not fully grasp Him.

Amen.:crosseo:

And thank the Lord that it is so.

[icxn]

...My favorite phrase for all of this is "any god I can understand is not my God." I like God to be so much bigger and awesome that my mind can not fully grasp Him.
Not only His essence but His actions as well:
The great mystery of the incarnation remains a mystery eternally. Not only is what is not yet seen of it greater than what has been revealed - for it is revealed merely to the extent that those saved by it can grasp it - but also even what is revealed still remains entirely hidden and is by no means known as it really is. What I have said should not appear paradoxical. For God is beyond being and transcends all beyond-beingness; and so, when He wished to come down to the level of being. He became being in a manner which transcends being. Thus, too, although transcending man, yet out of love for man He truly became man by taking on the substance of men; .but the manner in which He became man always remains un-revealed, for He was made man in a way which transcends man.

Let us contemplate with faith the mystery of the divine incarnation and in all simplicity let us simply praise Him who in His great generosity became man for us. For who, relying on the power of rational demonstration, can explain how the conception of the divine Logos took place? How was flesh generated without seed? How was there an engendering without loss of maidenhood? How did a mother after giving birth remain a virgin? How did He who was supremely perfect develop as He grew up (cf. Luke 2:52)? How was He who was pure baptized? How did He who was hungry give sustenance (cf. Matt. 4: 2; 14:14-21)? How did He who was weary impart strength (cf. John 4:6)? How did He who suffered dispense healing? How did He who was dying bestow life? And, to put the most important last, how did God become man? And - what is even more mysterious - how did the Logos, while subsisting wholly, essentially and hypostatically in the Father, also exist essentially and hypostatically in the flesh? How did He who is wholly God by nature become wholly man by nature, not renouncing either nature in any way at all, neither the divine, through which He is God, nor ours, through which He became man? Faith alone can embrace these mysteries, for it is faith that makes real for us things beyond intellect and reason (cf. Heb. 11:1). - St Maximos the Confessor, "Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice"