Conditions for Reunification

[The Prokeimenon!]

Dear brothers and sisters,

What would have to happen, in the opinion of the OO Churches, for a reunification of the OO & EO?

Are there currently any serious discussions between our Churches?

Do you think we could resolve the differences in who we consider Saints and who we consider heretics and vice versa?

Thanks and God bless you,
Rdr Moses

[ArnautDaniel]

Weren't some of the oriental churches never in communion with the Eastern Orthodox?

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Weren't some of the oriental churches never in communion with the Eastern Orthodox?

The only one I can think of is the Assyrian Church of the East, who are Nestorian.

[minasoliman]

Dear Moses,

It has already been agreed of the certain conditions being made. Consult this website for more details:

http://www.coptic.net/articles/OrthodoxUnityDialog.txt

Quick summary:

1. Mutual lifting of anathemas: While it is not required for either side to accept councils or saints of either OO or EO tradition, it is required to lift condemnation of both sides' saints, fathers, and councils, which means that both sides must admit that historically, neither family of Orthodoxy actually left Orthodoxy.

2. It is not just Christological unity that both churches find each other one in faith, but all aspects of Orthodoxy, liturgically, traditionally, historically, ecclesiologically, etc.

3. While these papers say that unity can be on a local church to local church basis, recently the Middle Eastern OO council of patriarchs decided to do things together. So whatever the Armenians want to do must also be agreed by the rest of the OO's, and likewise with each OO Church.

4. There is an encouragement that OO's should attend EO seminaries and EO's should attend OO seminaries. An intervisitation of priests and bishops are encouraged as well. A transition to changing some of the material traditionally taught in Sunday Schools and churches also are encouraged.

5. Baptism is accepted due to the One Faith. While for the EO's, this seems to be normal, since they accept any Trinitarian baptism from Protestants or Catholics, OO's see this as a huge step, and are quite strict about it. To accept an EO baptism is to put them closer to a position of oneness of the Orthodox ecclesiology. OO's do not accept Protestant and Catholic baptism regardless of how correct it was performed.

6. Both sides are encouraged to study one another's fathers so that both sides can get a better understanding of one another's history and theology. We are not to unite based on some political desire, but to make sure that all are convinced of one another's Orthodoxy. In fact, the Coptic Church is delaying unity due to trying to convince monks at Mount Athos and certain Russian traditionalist churches in hopes of showing them that these meetings are not the result of political pluralistic ecumenism, but truly thought-provoking studies (see point 2).

***At the moment both Alexandrian and Antiochian churches (EO and OO) have agreed recently to open communion without rechrismation for the convenenience of the people of Egypt and Syria. This doesn't mean people outside of Syria and Egypt are in the same agreement, but it does mean that these four churches are basically sister churches to one another.

***Dialogue is occuring right now with the MP once every year, and good results are showing, including the opennes of the Coptic Church to accept the Orthodox interpretation of Chalcedon using Constantinople II, and the openness of the MP to the Cyrillian theology of St. Severus.

Let us pray for the unity of what I believe the One Orthodox Church.

God bless.

Mina

[zhilan]

Dear Moses,

It has already been agreed of the certain conditions being made. Consult this website for more details:

http://www.coptic.net/articles/OrthodoxUnityDialog.txt

Quick summary:

1. Mutual lifting of anathemas: While it is not required for either side to accept councils or saints of either OO or EO tradition, it is required to lift condemnation of both sides' saints, fathers, and councils, which means that both sides must admit that historically, neither family of Orthodoxy actually left Orthodoxy.

2. It is not just Christological unity that both churches find each other one in faith, but all aspects of Orthodoxy, liturgically, traditionally, historically, ecclesiologically, etc.

3. While these papers say that unity can be on a local church to local church basis, recently the Middle Eastern OO council of patriarchs decided to do things together. So whatever the Armenians want to do must also be agreed by the rest of the OO's, and likewise with each OO Church.

4. There is an encouragement that OO's should attend EO seminaries and EO's should attend OO seminaries. An intervisitation of priests and bishops are encouraged as well. A transition to changing some of the material traditionally taught in Sunday Schools and churches also are encouraged.

5. Baptism is accepted due to the One Faith. While for the EO's, this seems to be normal, since they accept any Trinitarian baptism from Protestants or Catholics, OO's see this as a huge step, and are quite strict about it. To accept an EO baptism is to put them closer to a position of oneness of the Orthodox ecclesiology. OO's do not accept Protestant and Catholic baptism regardless of how correct it was performed.

6. Both sides are encouraged to study one another's fathers so that both sides can get a better understanding of one another's history and theology. We are not to unite based on some political desire, but to make sure that all are convinced of one another's Orthodoxy. In fact, the Coptic Church is delaying unity due to trying to convince monks at Mount Athos and certain Russian traditionalist churches in hopes of showing them that these meetings are not the result of political pluralistic ecumenism, but truly thought-provoking studies (see point 2).

***At the moment both Alexandrian and Antiochian churches (EO and OO) have agreed recently to open communion without rechrismation for the convenenience of the people of Egypt and Syria. This doesn't mean people outside of Syria and Egypt are in the same agreement, but it does mean that these four churches are basically sister churches to one another.

***Dialogue is occuring right now with the MP once every year, and good results are showing, including the opennes of the Coptic Church to accept the Orthodox interpretation of Chalcedon using Constantinople II, and the openness of the MP to the Cyrillian theology of St. Severus.

Let us pray for the unity of what I believe the One Orthodox Church.

God bless.

Mina

I didn't know that about the Antiochians and Coptics in Egypt and Syria - that's great! Good news. Would an Eastern Orthodox joining the Coptics or other OO church have to be baptised or is it recognized already?

I really hope that the churches will be united.

[minasoliman]

Hi Zhilan,

Like I said in number five, baptism is openly accepted. To the EO's this doesn't seem like a big deal, but to OO's, it is.

God bless.

Mina

[copticorthodoxy]

I suggest to make a thread at any suitable forum for the OO & EO to discuss any common issue together , may this help to know each others better

[The Prokeimenon!]

Thank you all for your responses. God bless you all. Hey- maybe we can all take communion together someday. :)

Rdr Moses

[minasoliman]

Thank you all for your responses. God bless you all. Hey- maybe we can all take communion together someday. :)

Rdr Moses
I told a Greek Orthodox priest (who I love very dearly) one time telling him that one of these days, I desire to take the Eucharist from your hands.

I am praying for and looking forward for that day.

God bless.

Mina

[ArnautDaniel]

What I am gathering from this is that there is work towards *reunification* of the churches that were historically part of the eastern half of the Roman Empire.

Are there any moves toward *unification* with churches that were never part of the historical Roman church, such as the Assyrian or Ethiopian churches?

[minasoliman]

Well, the Assyrian Church needs some work, as some mistrust and ambiguity developed from them, and caused some hardened heart issues. Plus, there is also ambiguity about the "Nestorian" fathers as well, and not all scholars agree as to what their real Christological position as was the unanimous scholarly agreement with the clarity of our own fathers.

The Ethiopian Church used to be a part of the Coptic Church. They are independant, but they are still OO, and any decision made by the Coptic Church (although they seem somewhat reluctant with OO/EO dialogues), they seem to be attracted to.

God bless.

Mina

God bless.

[irishseventysix]

I, too, cannot wait until we are reunified. It's on my prayer list every night.

Peace,

[Xpycoctomos]

Dear Moses,

It has already been agreed of the certain conditions being made. Consult this website for more details:

http://www.coptic.net/articles/OrthodoxUnityDialog.txt

Quick summary:

1. Mutual lifting of anathemas: While it is not required for either side to accept councils or saints of either OO or EO tradition, it is required to lift condemnation of both sides' saints, fathers, and councils, which means that both sides must admit that historically, neither family of Orthodoxy actually left Orthodoxy.

2. It is not just Christological unity that both churches find each other one in faith, but all aspects of Orthodoxy, liturgically, traditionally, historically, ecclesiologically, etc.

3. While these papers say that unity can be on a local church to local church basis, recently the Middle Eastern OO council of patriarchs decided to do things together. So whatever the Armenians want to do must also be agreed by the rest of the OO's, and likewise with each OO Church.

4. There is an encouragement that OO's should attend EO seminaries and EO's should attend OO seminaries. An intervisitation of priests and bishops are encouraged as well. A transition to changing some of the material traditionally taught in Sunday Schools and churches also are encouraged.

5. Baptism is accepted due to the One Faith. While for the EO's, this seems to be normal, since they accept any Trinitarian baptism from Protestants or Catholics, OO's see this as a huge step, and are quite strict about it. To accept an EO baptism is to put them closer to a position of oneness of the Orthodox ecclesiology. OO's do not accept Protestant and Catholic baptism regardless of how correct it was performed.

6. Both sides are encouraged to study one another's fathers so that both sides can get a better understanding of one another's history and theology. We are not to unite based on some political desire, but to make sure that all are convinced of one another's Orthodoxy. In fact, the Coptic Church is delaying unity due to trying to convince monks at Mount Athos and certain Russian traditionalist churches in hopes of showing them that these meetings are not the result of political pluralistic ecumenism, but truly thought-provoking studies (see point 2).

***At the moment both Alexandrian and Antiochian churches (EO and OO) have agreed recently to open communion without rechrismation for the convenenience of the people of Egypt and Syria. This doesn't mean people outside of Syria and Egypt are in the same agreement, but it does mean that these four churches are basically sister churches to one another.

***Dialogue is occuring right now with the MP once every year, and good results are showing, including the opennes of the Coptic Church to accept the Orthodox interpretation of Chalcedon using Constantinople II, and the openness of the MP to the Cyrillian theology of St. Severus.

Let us pray for the unity of what I believe the One Orthodox Church.

God bless.

Mina
I'd read this before, but I enjoy re-reading it... I find it encouraging.