church discipline

[mont974x4]

The ultimate purpose is for restoration...purity and unity within the body of Christ....and always done in love.

Mat 18:15 `And if thy brother may sin against thee, go and show him his fault between thee and him alone, if he may hear thee, thou didst gain thy brother;
Mat 18:16 and if he may not hear, take with thee yet one or two, that by the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may stand.
Mat 18:17 `And if he may not hear them, say it to the assembly, and if also the assembly he may not hear, let him be to thee as the heathen man and the tax-gatherer.
There are also many references about accountabilty. Also, a passage that basically says that church discipline ultimately leads to peace and joy for those that undergo it.

I am hoping that others will look for these other passages and we can share them and study them together.


Dietrich Bonnhoffer said "Nothing is so cruel as the tenderness that consigns another to his sin. Nothing can be more compassionate than the severe rebuke that calls a brother back from the path of sin."

[Asinner]

The ultimate purpose is for restoration...purity and unity within the body of Christ....and always done in love.

Mat 18:15 `And if thy brother may sin against thee, go and show him his fault between thee and him alone, if he may hear thee, thou didst gain thy brother;
Mat 18:16 and if he may not hear, take with thee yet one or two, that by the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may stand.
Mat 18:17 `And if he may not hear them, say it to the assembly, and if also the assembly he may not hear, let him be to thee as the heathen man and the tax-gatherer.
There are also many references about accountabilty. Also, a passage that basically says that church discipline ultimately leads to peace and joy for those that undergo it.

I am hoping that others will look for these other passages and we can share them and study them together.


Dietrich Bonnhoffer said "Nothing is so cruel as the tenderness that consigns another to his sin. Nothing can be more compassionate than the severe rebuke that calls a brother back from the path of sin."

Sorry if I am posting somewhere I shouldn't . . .:sorry: As a former non-denomer, I can say that church discipline was of no effect in many instances, because people would wind up leaving, instead of being disciplined, and go to the church down the street, or in my case, splitting into another branch. :(

God Bless

[mont974x4]

Sorry if I am posting somewhere I shouldn't . . .:sorry: As a former non-denomer, I can say that church discipline was of no effect in many instances, because people would wind up leaving, instead of being disciplined, and go to the church down the street, or in my case, splitting into another branch. :(

God Bless


You are quite right.

I believe that is due to:
1. pride of the sinner (I'm not wrong, who do you think you are etc attitudes)
2. pride of those bringing the discipline. (I already know how to discipline I don't need to look it up to ensure we handle it rightly)
3. hypocrits (we don't hold all sin to the same standard)

[Asinner]

You are quite right.

I believe that is due to:
1. pride of the sinner (I'm not wrong, who do you think you are etc attitudes)
2. pride of those bringing the discipline. (I already know how to discipline I don't need to look it up to ensure we handle it rightly)
3. hypocrits (we don't hold all sin to the same standard)

Very true. :amen:

[mact]

1Co 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. (2) You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. (3) For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. (4) In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, (5) I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (6) Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? (7) Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. (8) Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (9) I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; (10) I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. (11) But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. (12) For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? (13) But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Most churches are afraid to have a firm hand like God calls for.... most have big building and big salaries they must cover so they don't want anyone leaving. Very sad that there is such a lack of faith. I look at teen ministries in so many churchs that are NO different then the world.... and others in the church are not much better. Everyone is like there own pope and don't fall under the authority of those who lead their church.
Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.


I would like to hear if there is any churchs out there actually obeying scripture on this.
In Him
Rick

[HannahAnna]

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

[Asinner]

I would like to hear if there is any churchs out there actually obeying scripture on this.
In Him
Rick

Certainly. :) Christ promised to be with His Church until the close of the age. The fullness of His Truth still exists as it did 2000 years ago.

God Bless

[mont974x4]

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.


:thumbsup: Thanks! That's one I was tring to remember.

[mact]

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
This scripture isn't about "Church" discipline... but about considering hardship discipline from God. Encouraging us not to loose heart (take things to seriously) nor to make light of the discipline (take it seriously).

[HannahAnna]

This scripture isn't about "Church" discipline... but about considering hardship discipline from God. Encouraging us not to loose heart (take things to seriously) nor to make light of the discipline (take it seriously).
Oh yes it is, who do you think God uses to discipline us as well? It's those behind the pulpit they are used to rebuke us with the Word as well. In my book that talks about Church discipline, I'm talking discernment here.

[mont974x4]

This scripture isn't about "Church" discipline... but about considering hardship discipline from God. Encouraging us not to loose heart (take things to seriously) nor to make light of the discipline (take it seriously).

It does not directly address church discipline, however it speaks to an issue that applies to all discipline.

[HannahAnna]

It does not directly address church discipline, however it speaks to an issue that applies to all discipline.
True as well.

[HannahAnna]

:wave: God bless you all.:amen:

[mact]

Oh yes it is, who do you think God uses to discipline us as well? It's those behind the pulpit they are used to rebuke us with the Word as well. In my book that talks about Church discipline, I'm talking discernment here.
While I see what you are saying and I don't disagree that what you are saying for the most part... this isn't a sripture about church discipline. It is more about understanding when things don't go right and not loosing heart. There is plenty of scriptures that teach us what church discipline should look like and when it should be used, this could be used to teach us how we should respond to it.
In Him
Rick

[mont974x4]

I beleive that is about discipline...it mentions chastening from our Father.

[HannahAnna]

While I see what you are saying and I don't disagree that what you are saying for the most part... this isn't a sripture about church discipline. It is more about understanding when things don't go right and not loosing heart. There is plenty of scriptures that teach us what church discipline should look like and when it should be used, this could be used to teach us how we should respond to it.
In Him
Rick
I see your point. But I stand by what I wrote.

[mont974x4]

n/m I see your point as well. While it is not about the application of discipline does address the outcome of the discipline to offer hope to the disciplined.

ok, I'm off to take a break. My sons need to get whuped up on playing playstation with their old man.;)

Jay the toys-r-us kid

[HannahAnna]

Gotta go make something to eat for the hubby.:wave:

[CrazyforYeshua]

I would like to hear if there is any churchs out there actually obeying scripture on this.
In Him
Rick


Mine does, especially in leadership. We had a special congregational meeting last year, and all it said on the bulletin was "Staff change". I thought it was to pay our newly ordained pastor, but it wasn't. Seems our Assistant Pastor was called before the Elders for "neglect of duty". We weren't told exactly what that meant, but we didn't have to be, they knew, and were holding him accountable. He was put on 6 months "probation", with no slack whatsoever.
I, for one, was glad to see it handled in a Biblical manner, because it could have been handled in either of 2 ways-no accountability, or we go in and he's gone, no explanation.

[mact]

I would like to see a church that actually has the realtionships within the church to hold members to Mt 18.
If someone sins against you, you go to that person just the two of you. No gossip no talking to others about it... just going to the offender.

If they listen and repent then great it is done. If not you bring a few people with you. This way all can be brought into the light.

If the person is humble and repents then it is done, but if not it is brought before the church. People are told what is going on and the person refusal to repent and people can pray for this brothers heart and humility.

If he repents AMEN.... if not he is kicked out for the following reasons:

Hope that he will repent by morning his loss of fellowship
Protect those in the church from this person's influience.
Protect the lost from thinking sin will be tolerated in the church.In Him
Rick

[New_Wineskin]

Sorry if I am posting somewhere I shouldn't . . .:sorry: As a former non-denomer, I can say that church discipline was of no effect in many instances, because people would wind up leaving, instead of being disciplined, and go to the church down the street, or in my case, splitting into another branch. :(

God Bless That is the good thing about denominations ... people being pushed around can simply go elsewhere .

[ROGER459]

There have been some good responses, especially Matthew 18 and 1Corinthians 5.

Most churches do not even practive Church Discipline nor would they even know where or how to begin.

BUT DID YOU KNOW, God has a Discipline Program in place!

(1Corinthians 11:28-to-32) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
(1Co 11:29) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
(1Co 11:30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [die].
(1Co 11:31) For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
(1Co 11:32) But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

THERE IS ALSO THE "LAW OF THE HARVERST!"

(1Timothy 5:24) Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

The person that Committs FORNICATION or ADULTERY, may believe that they just got away and that The SIN, they committed against God and their Body, will come to haunt them!

(1Thesallonians 4:3-4-5) For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: [any sexual sin]
(1Th 4:4) That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
(1Th 4:5) Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

SIN IS A CHOICE! Remember, even if you confess and forsake your sin, you may still = REAP THE RESULTS!

(Galatians 6:7-8-9) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Gal 6:8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
(Gal 6:9) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

PERHAPS, if you will read Acts 5:1-to-11, Especially 11. That is what is missing TODAY, THE REAL FEAR OF GOD!

(Psalms 111:10) The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Thanks, Roger459
http://home.att.net/~roger459

[JVarner83]

I would like to see a church that actually has the realtionships within the church to hold members to Mt 18.
If someone sins against you, you go to that person just the two of you. No gossip no talking to others about it... just going to the offender.

If they listen and repent then great it is done. If not you bring a few people with you. This way all can be brought into the light.

If the person is humble and repents then it is done, but if not it is brought before the church. People are told what is going on and the person refusal to repent and people can pray for this brothers heart and humility.

If he repents AMEN.... if not he is kicked out for the following reasons:

Hope that he will repent by morning his loss of fellowship
Protect those in the church from this person's influience.
Protect the lost from thinking sin will be tolerated in the church.In Him
Rick


LoL...

(Mat 18:21) Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
(Mat 18:22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

[mact]

LoL...

(Mat 18:21) Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
(Mat 18:22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Yes, contexually that follows the discipline that Jesus describes. Forgiveness and discipline go hand in hand.
The sinning party needs to repent. Luk 17:3-4 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. (4) "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
Rick

[rosiecotton]

I would like to see a church that actually has the realtionships within the church to hold members to Mt 18.
If someone sins against you, you go to that person just the two of you. No gossip no talking to others about it... just going to the offender.

If they listen and repent then great it is done. If not you bring a few people with you. This way all can be brought into the light.

If the person is humble and repents then it is done, but if not it is brought before the church. People are told what is going on and the person refusal to repent and people can pray for this brothers heart and humility.

If he repents AMEN.... if not he is kicked out for the following reasons:

Hope that he will repent by morning his loss of fellowship
Protect those in the church from this person's influience.
Protect the lost from thinking sin will be tolerated in the church.In Him
Rick

Unfortunately in our church, most people don't go to the offending party first. They will go discuss it with others first, or go to the minister first. And of course, this ends up in a lot of gossipping going on. :sigh:

[mact]

Unfortunately in our church, most people don't go to the offending party first. They will go discuss it with others first, or go to the minister first. And of course, this ends up in a lot of gossipping going on. :sigh:
Yes that is my point. I long for that 1st Century church and the spiritual relationships that these scriptures would require.
R