One Hundred Fifty Reasons why I'm Catholic

[SecretOfFatima]

One Hundred Fifty Reasons why I'm Catholic

And You Should Be Too!

by Dave Armstrong

1. Best One-Sentence Summary: I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the biblical data, offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity (i.e., Christian, apostolic Tradition), and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality, spirituality, social ethic, and philosophy.

2. Alternate: I am a Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.

3. 2nd Alternate: I left Protestantism because it was seriously deficient in its interpretation of the Bible (e.g., "faith alone" and many other "Catholic" doctrines - see evidences below), inconsistently selective in its espousal of various Catholic Traditions (e.g., the Canon of the Bible), inadequate in its ecclesiology, lacking a sensible view of Christian history (e.g., "Scripture alone"), compromised morally (e.g., contraception, divorce), and unbiblically schismatic, anarchical, and relativistic. I don't therefore believe that Protestantism is all bad (not by a long shot), but these are some of the major deficiencies I eventually saw as fatal to the "theory" of Protestantism, over against Catholicism. All Catholics must regard baptized, Nicene, Chalcedonian Protestants as Christians.

4. Catholicism isn't formally divided and sectarian (Jn 17:20-23; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10-13).

5. Catholic unity makes Christianity and Jesus more believable to the world (Jn 17:23).

6. Catholicism, because of its unified, complete, fully supernatural Christian vision, mitigates against secularization and humanism.

7. Catholicism avoids an unbiblical individualism which undermines Christian community (e.g., 1 Cor 12:25-26).

8. Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.

9. Catholicism avoids ecclesiological anarchism - one cannot merely jump to another denomination when some disciplinary measure or censure is called for.

10. Catholicism formally (although, sadly, not always in practice) prevents the theological relativism which leads to the uncertainties within the Protestant system among laypeople.

11. Catholicism rejects the "State Church," which has led to governments dominating Christianity rather than vice-versa.

12. Protestant State Churches greatly influenced the rise of nationalism, which mitigated against universal equality and Christian universalism (i.e., Catholicism).

13. Unified Catholic Christendom (before the 16th century) had not been plagued by the tragic religious wars which in turn led to the "Enlightenment," in which men rejected the hypocrisy of inter-Christian warfare and decided to become indifferent to religion rather than letting it guide their lives.

14. Catholicism retains the elements of mystery, supernatural, and the sacred in Christianity, thus opposing itself to secularization, where the sphere of the religious in life becomes greatly limited.

15. Protestant individualism led to the privatization of Christianity, whereby it is little respected in societal and political life, leaving the "public square" barren of Christian influence.

16. The secular false dichotomy of "church vs. world" has led committed orthodox Christians, by and large, to withdraw from politics, leaving a void filled by pagans, cynics, unscrupulous, and power-hungry. Catholicism offers a framework in which to approach the state and civic responsibility.

17. Protestantism leans too much on mere traditions of men (every denomination stems from one Founder's vision. As soon as two or more of these contradict each other, error is necessarily present).

18. Protestant churches (esp. evangelicals), are far too often guilty of putting their pastors on too high of a pedestal. In effect, every pastor becomes a "pope," to varying degrees (some are "super-popes"). Because of this, evangelical congregations often experience a severe crisis and/or split up when a pastor leaves, thus proving that their philosophy is overly man-centered, rather than God-centered.

19. Protestantism, due to lack of real authority and dogmatic structure, is tragically prone to accommodation to the spirit of the age, and moral faddism.

20. Catholicism retains apostolic succession, necessary to know what is true Christian apostolic Tradition. It was the criterion of Christian truth used by the early Christians.

21. Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, esp. the years from 313 (Constantine's conversion) to 1517 (Luther's arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of "reinventing the wheel."

22. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and remains so to this day (esp. evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed Christian (if it isn't, then - logically - neither is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.

23. The Catholic Church accepts the authority of the great Ecumenical Councils (see, e.g., Acts 15) which defined and developed Christian doctrine (much of which Protestantism also accepts).

24. Most Protestants do not have bishops, a Christian office which is biblical (1 Tim 3:1-2) and which has existed from the earliest Christian history and Tradition.

25. Protestantism has no way of settling doctrinal issues definitively. At best, the individual Protestant can only take a head count of how many Protestant scholars, commentators, etc. take such-and-such a view on Doctrine X, Y, or Z. There is no unified Protestant Tradition.

26. Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity. Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its absurdly late appearance. Christianity must have historic continuity or it is not Christianity. Protestantism is necessarily a "parasite" of Catholicism, historically and doctrinally speaking.

27. The Protestant notion of the "invisible church" is also novel in the history of Christianity and foreign to the Bible (Mt 5:14; Mt 16:18), therefore untrue.

28. When Protestant theologians speak of the teaching of early Christianity (e.g., when refuting "cults"), they say "the Church taught . . ." (as it was then unified), but when they refer to the present they instinctively and inconsistently refrain from such terminology, since universal teaching authority now clearly resides only in the Catholic Church.

29. The Protestant principle of private judgment has created a milieu (esp. in Protestant America) in which (invariably) man-centered "cults" such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and Christian Science arise. The very notion that one can "start" a new, or "the true" Church is Protestant to the core.

30. The lack of a definitive teaching authority in Protestant (as with the Catholic magisterium) makes many individual Protestants think that they have a direct line to God, notwithstanding all of Christian Tradition and the history of biblical exegesis (a "Bible, Holy Spirit and me" mentality). Such people are generally under-educated theologically, unteachable, lack humility, and have no business making presumed "infallible" statements about the nature of Christianity.

31. Evangelicalism's "techniques" of evangelism are often contrived and manipulative, certainly not directly derived from the text of the Bible. Some even resemble brainwashing to a degree.

32. The gospel preached by many evangelical Protestant evangelists and pastors is a truncated and abridged, individualistic and ear-tickling gospel, in effect merely "fire insurance" rather than the biblical gospel as proclaimed by the Apostles.

33. Evangelicalism often separates profound, life-transforming repentance and radical discipleship from its gospel message. The Lutheran Bonhoeffer called this "cheap grace."

34. The absence of the idea of submission to spiritual authority in Protestantism has leaked over into the civic arena, where the ideas of personal "freedom," "rights," and "choice" now dominate to such an extent that civic duty, communitarianism, and discipline are tragically neglected, to the detriment of a healthy society.

35. Catholicism retains the sense of the sacred, the sublime, the holy, and the beautiful in spirituality. The ideas of altar, and "sacred space" are preserved. Many Protestant churches are no more than "meeting halls" or "gymnasiums" or "barn"-type structures. Most Protestants' homes are more esthetically striking than their churches. Likewise, Protestants are often "addicted to mediocrity" in their appreciation of art, music, architecture, drama, the imagination, etc.

36. Protestantism has largely neglected the place of liturgy in worship (with notable exceptions such as Anglicanism and Lutheranism). This is the way Christians had always worshiped down through the centuries, and thus can't be so lightly dismissed.

..........
114 more reasons here
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/reasons.html

[Rick Otto]

Dave Armstrong being convinced isn't very persuasive for me, thanks.:)

I don't have a problem with your being Catholic, but I definitely shouldn't be one.
I'm X-Catholic.
I'm X-Protestant, too.
99% of Protestants have reverted to Catholic doctrine, seemingly completely ignorant of why William Tyndale (among others) was burned alive.

Worse, protestants seemed to have reformed mostly only the soteriological doctrines, retaining many of the unscriptural, if traditional, practices & accoutremonts, - all of which add up to props for religious sentiments, not necessarily exspressions of spiritual imperatives.

For me at least, these reasons you've listed are full of self-contradiction & delusions of grandeur, not to be offensive, but if you're interested in a contrary opinion, I'd like to be able to sociably offer one in an intelligent way.

I find all the reasons arguable.

If you would like to focus on one or two, I could take the time, but to address them all would be unfair to expect of me considering the convenience with which you acquired them.
:thumbsup:

[Pure_Joy]

I am a christian, a Bible beleiving christian,
I go to an assembly of God church and agree with it.
I disagree with some catholic doctrine, but also with some baptist, some evangelical free, and other doctrines,
basically I beleive what the bible says.
I beleive Jesus died on the cross as a PERFECT MAN, for our sins (every single human beings)
I beleive I can pray to God whenevr and where ever I please, and he cares.
I beleive that through worshiping God (glorifying him in all I do) that is fulfilling my purpose,
I beleive in water baptism as an adult or a child of a age that understands.
I don't beleive water baptism is how babies get to heaven..
I haven't decided excactly what I beleive about that yet must read up on it, and pray some, but I don't think that they need to be baptized untill they choose for themselves.....
I beleive one needend confess their sins to any but God,
and that asking forgivenss of him is enough to be forgiven.
I beleive in the trinity or the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and in spiritual gifts,
and speaking in tongues,
I believe that and more .

[SecretOfFatima]

Dave Armstrong being convinced isn't very persuasive for me, thanks.:)

I don't have a problem with your being Catholic, but I definitely shouldn't be one.
I'm X-Catholic.
I'm X-Protestant, too.
99% of Protestants have reverted to Catholic doctrine, seemingly completely ignorant of why William Tyndale (among others) was burned alive.

Worse, protestants seemed to have reformed mostly only the soteriological doctrines, retaining many of the unscriptural, if traditional, practices & accoutremonts, - all of which add up to props for religious sentiments, not necessarily exspressions of spiritual imperatives.

For me at least, these reasons you've listed are full of self-contradiction & delusions of grandeur, not to be offensive, but if you're interested in a contrary opinion, I'd like to be able to sociably offer one in an intelligent way.

I find all the reasons arguable.

If you would like to focus on one or two, I could take the time, but to address them all would be unfair to expect of me considering the convenience with which you acquired them.
:thumbsup:


About William Tyndale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale)...
Are you a follower of William Tyndale?

So that is where the name Jehovah came from... Thanks

The king James Bible they use, is that the original version which also contained the same books as the catholic church uses?

So do you have a pope which represents Peter in your church?




May the LORD bless you and keep you

[Nebmaatisus]

I have but one reason for being Orthodox. I wanted to belong in the original Church, founded by Christ 2000 years ago. I had nothing in particular against the Lutheran church I used to belong, but I just wanted to be a part of the Original Church.

[Rick Otto]

...a great appreciator of his ideas & efforts.

The "pope" of "my" church is Jesus Christ.
He represents ME before The Father.

On my better days, I represent Him to others.

Re: "original versions"... sounds a little like another oxymoron (eg. Jumbo Shrimp, Business Ethics,Postal Service, etc.)
The Pilgrims preferred The Geneva Bible, which version preceeded The King James Version. I believe a guy named Wycliffe had a version before the Geneva version.
You might also discover some minor, but still significant controversies regarding the Latin Vulgate version. It's been awhile since I looked at it, but I seem to remember something about the reliability of a guy named Origin, and either the Greek or Hebrew lexicon being altered for it.

At any rate, are you aware that the Bible the RCC priests use has more books in it than the ones they generaly give to the congregation? Not to sensationalize the clergy/laity gap, just an observation in character.

[Randombitsofstring]

I think there are too many rules in Catholicism for me to be a good Catholic. I’d get confused. And I like birth control.

[Assisi]

Re: "original versions"... sounds a little like another oxymoron (eg. Jumbo Shrimp, Business Ethics,Postal Service, etc.)
The Pilgrims preferred The Geneva Bible, which version preceeded The King James Version. I believe a guy named Wycliffe had a version before the Geneva version.
You might also discover some minor, but still significant controversies regarding the Latin Vulgate version. It's been awhile since I looked at it, but I seem to remember something about the reliability of a guy named Origin, and either the Greek or Hebrew lexicon being altered for it.

I think she meant the original version of the KJV. Not versions which preceded it.


At any rate, are you aware that the Bible the RCC priests use has more books in it than the ones they generaly give to the congregation? Not to sensationalize the clergy/laity gap, just an observation in character.

Never heard of this before. Can you give me more info? (also, the clergy don't give us Bibles, we can go buy our own, just like you)

[Vedant]

Dave Armstrong being convinced isn't very persuasive for me, thanks.:)

I don't have a problem with your being Catholic, but I definitely shouldn't be one.
I'm X-Catholic.
I'm X-Protestant, too.
99% of Protestants have reverted to Catholic doctrine, seemingly completely ignorant of why William Tyndale (among others) was burned alive.

Worse, protestants seemed to have reformed mostly only the soteriological doctrines, retaining many of the unscriptural, if traditional, practices & accoutremonts, - all of which add up to props for religious sentiments, not necessarily exspressions of spiritual imperatives.

For me at least, these reasons you've listed are full of self-contradiction & delusions of grandeur, not to be offensive, but if you're interested in a contrary opinion, I'd like to be able to sociably offer one in an intelligent way.

I find all the reasons arguable.

If you would like to focus on one or two, I could take the time, but to address them all would be unfair to expect of me considering the convenience with which you acquired them.
:thumbsup:

If you're x-Protestant and -Catholic, have you considered Orthodoxy?

[ScottF]

Interesting list of reasons to convert, but isn't there a list like this somewhere written in easy-to-understand plain English ? With a list like this one, you run the risk of only converting those with a masters in divinity.

[Domi_Adsum_05]

All those bricks make a pretty strong wall in defense of Catholicism. It's confusing to me how people can turn away from the Catholic Church because they think it has too many rules! Either God makes certain demands of us or he does not.

[Morgaine1205]

Please be mindful that there is no debating in this forum - and we all need to be respectful of each other's denominations. Thank you and God bless!

[catlover]

It's confusing to me how people can turn away from the Catholic Church because they think it has too many rules! ---------------------------------
The Roman Catholic Church isn't for everybody.

[SecretOfFatima]

...It's confusing to me how people can turn away from the...

Your answer is in yesterday daily reading:

...Turning to the disciples in private he said,
“Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.
For I say to you,
many prophets and kings desired to see what you see,
but did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it.”

[Domi_Adsum_05]

Are you and I reading the same thread? :scratch:

[Domi_Adsum_05]

I think there are too many rules in Catholicism for me to be a good Catholic. I’d get confused.

My comment was not "snide." It referenced your own words as well as my confusion regarding people who think Catholicism has too many rules. Your decision regarding Catholicism confuses me.
And I fail to see how my post was at all mean-spirited.

Pax Christi.:)

[SecretOfFatima]

Randombitsofstring,

Looking at your point of view i can see how you have Interpreted his comment and my comment on why he was puzzled, please accept my apologies, that was not my intention.


Tom Fox (who is a protestant) once said -"When I allow myself to become angry I disconnect from God and connect with the evil force that empowers fighting. When I allow myself to become fearful I disconnect from God and connect with the evil force that encourages flight. I take Gandhi and Jesus at their word - if I am not one with God then I am one with Satan. I don't think Gandhi would use that word but Jesus certainly did, on numerous occasions. The French theologian Rene Girard has a very powerful vision of Satan that speaks to me: 'Satan sustains himself as a parasite on what God creates by imitating God in a manner that is jealous, grotesque, perverse and as contrary as possible to the loving and obedient imitation of Jesus.' -

[Morgaine1205]

After review and clean-up, this thread is being re-opened. However, there will be no denominational debating allowed in this thread and/or forum. Please keep this in mind as you post. Thank you and God bless!

[SecretOfFatima]

Thank you Morgaine1205 for cleaning up and re-opening the thread.

I would like to invite anyone who may not believe that the Catholic church is the apostolic church that Jesus establish (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=27114838&postcount=1) to pop by the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) discussion group and throw as many questions as you wish at the catholic church... I'm sure everyone in there will be more then happy to explain and clarify any issues that may have keeped you away from the Church that Jesus established.


Peace be with you.

[catlover]

Thank you Morgaine1205 for cleaning up and re-opening the thread.

I would like to invite anyone who may not believe that the Catholic church is the apostolic church that Jesus establish (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=27114838&postcount=1) to pop by the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) discussion group and throw as many questions as you wish at the catholic church... I'm sure everyone in there will be more then happy to explain and clarify any issues that may have keeped you away from the Church that Jesus established.


Peace be with you.


No, thank-you.

[Rick Otto]

We appreciate your hospitality.:thumbsup:

But I'm wondering if instead, you might be interested in why I see the idea of Apostolic Succession as illigitimate, and I would be happy to explain to you why I left & why I haven't returned to The RC & Protestant Churches.

If you want, I'd be happy to tell you why I don't think asking Catholics for answers would be productive for me. I understand completely if you don't have time or simply aren't interested.:cool:

[Elderone]

Here are just 5 very good reasons I am a Protestant.

One Man's Take on 5 reasons why Catholicism Contradicts the Bible


T = TRINITY OF GOD USURPED!


The Pope claims the place and names that belong to God alone (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, III para. 18).

God, the Father: He claims he is "The Holy Father". This is the unique name of God the Father.

John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." — ‘Thine own name!' It is God's name alone - it cannot belong to anyone else.

Matthew 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."


God, the Son: He claims he is "The Head of the Church". This title belongs to Christ alone.

Colossians 1:18 "And [Christ] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."


God, the Holy Spirit: He claims he is "The Vicar of Christ". This is the office of the Holy Spirit alone.

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
The Pope even takes the very name of God. The New York Catechism calls the Pope, "the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God Himself on earth."

THE TRINITY OF GOD IS USURPED IN ROMAN CATHOLICISM!

_______________________________________________________________________________________


I = INTER-MEDIATION OF CHRIST USURPED!


The Bible states, "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2:5,6).

Rome claims that in her masses she can repeat the sacrifice of the cross and change the wafer and wine into the very body and very blood of Christ. She claims that she perpetuates the sacrifice of the cross (Eucharisticum Mysterium, Intro. C, 1). Again, "In the sacrifice of the Mass our Lord is immolated" [killed as a victim] (Ibid, C, 2).

Christ cried on the cross, "It is finished" John 19:30.

Hebrews 9:25,26 "Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Hebrews 10:12 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God."


Rome has elevated Mary to the place of mediation. John Paul II states that "in Mary is effected the reconciliation of God with humanity" (On Reconciliation and Penance. St. Paul Editions, p. 139).

No Christian can accept "The Cult of the Blessed Virgin" (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, VIII para. 66). It is idolatrous and an insult to our Lord Jesus Christ.

THE INTER-MEDIATION OF CHRIST IS USURPED BY ROMAN CATHOLICISM!

____________________________________________________________________________________________


A = AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE USURPED!


The Church of Rome cannot establish her false claims that she alone is the preserver of God's Word and the maintainer of the Truths of the same. Rome is far from being a believer in the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice.

Her rejection of the Bible as the sole rule of faith and practice has been brought about by the many additions she has made to Holy Scripture.

The command and warning of God is crystal clear that the Bible must not be added to.

Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Deuteronomy 12:32 "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Jeremiah 23:28 "He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully."

Revelation 22:18 "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."

Now the Church of Rome has been found out to be a liar and has had added to it the plagues of the Apocalypse – as God stated in Proverbs 30:6 and Revelation 22:18 – by adding to God's Word.

Rome adds to God's Word by adding more books to the Canonical Scriptures, known as the Apocryphal Books. These books were never received by the Jewish Church (Romans 3:2); they were never quoted by Christ; they were rejected by the Christian Fathers; and they are self-evidently not inspired. The writer apologizes for defects (2 Maccabees 15:39) and one seemingly commands suicide. They are no part of Holy Scripture; yet, they were added into the Canon by the Church of Rome to make up Rome's Bible.

Rome also adds to the Bible apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions. Oral tradition evolved into written tradition and the unreliability of oral tradition is exposed in John 21:22,23.

Rome also adds that the interpretation of Scripture must have the "unanimous consent of the fathers". Alas the fathers were far from being unanimous. They contradicted themselves and rarely consented. In fact, strange to relate Gregory the Great Bishop of Rome stated that the Bishop who claimed to be the Universal Bishop is the forerunner of the Antichrist (Gregory Reqisto. Epist. 1.b. v11. Ind. Is epis 33 ed Benet Domisitos).
Christ warned against tradition and stated, "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3,6,9).

Rome stands out as a self-exposed liar and as the target of the judgments of Almighty God by her deliberate adding to the Holy Scriptures of Truth.

At the end of the 19th century Rome added on to the Scripture the infallibility of the Pope having for years said that the doctrine of the infallibility of the Pope was a "Protestant falsehood" (see Papal Catechism).

THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE IS USURPED BY ROMAN CATHOLICISM!

_____________________________________________________________________________________________


R = REMISSION OF SINS USURPED!


John Paul II states "It would be foolish and presumptuous … to claim to receive forgiveness while doing without the sacrament" of penance (On Reconciliation and Penance p.115).

He further insists that the individual confession to a priest to receive absolution from him "constitutes the only ordinary way in which the faithful who are conscious of serious sin are reconciled to God" (Ibid, p.132).

The Bible shows us that the way to true remission of sins is clearly contrary to that of the way of Popes, earthly priests, absolutions, and penances:

Ezra 10:11 "Make confession unto the Lord God."

Psalm 32:5 "I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin."

Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

The Lord Jesus never put any earthly priest or Pope between Himself and the sinner.

THE REMISSION OF SINS IS USURPED BY ROMAN CATHOLICISM!

___________________________________________________________________________________________


A = ASSURANCE OF SALVATION USURPED!


Rome has put her curse on the Bible way of salvation. "If any man says that it is by the righteousness of Christ itself that men are formally justified – let him be accursed" (Council of Trent, Session 6, Canon 10).

"Sins must be expiated. This must be done in this earth through the sorrows, miseries, and trials of this life and above all through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments of purifying punishments" (Indulgentiarum Doctrina, I para. 2).

Rome thereby removes all assurances a sinner may hope to receive of their eternal salvation. However, the Bible paints for us a very different picture in which "the vilest offender who truly believes, that moment from Jesus a pardon receives."

1 Corinthians 1:30 "Jesus Christ is made unto us … righteousness."

Romans 5:18 "By the obedience of one (Our Lord Himself) shall many be made righteous."

1 John 1:7 "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Purgatory is not found in the Bible. There is no future wrath for justified sinners.

Romans 5:9 "Being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

You can be saved now and have full assurance of faith in the certainty that you know you have eternal life. You require no priest but Christ alone (Hebrews 4:15). You require no sacrifice but Christ alone (1 John 1:7). You require no mediator but Christ alone (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Pope's "bad news" points you to Purgatory – a non-existent place! The Lord Jesus Christ's good news (or gospel) points you to Paradise by simple faith in Himself. Good news indeed!

Remember what Peter said in Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."


Author: Ian Paisley. Property of European Institute of Protestant Studies

[Morgaine1205]

Please remember, this is not the place for denominational debate! We have a Denominational Formal Debate board, and this would be the allowed place to have a debate. Thank you and God bless!

[Elderone]

I really like that picture of your MOD hat.

The cat looks like it is saying, "good grief what is this sillyness all about".

[Morgaine1205]

:)

[SecretOfFatima]

Hi Elderone,

Those are great points, i would love to see those points in the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) area (who knows you might just save some catholics if your points are valid), but Morgaine is right we should not diviate from what this area stands for.

Please send me a link if you decide to post those points in the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) area i will very much interested in follow them.

God Bless

Here are just 5 very good reasons I am a Protestant.

[BuzzardHut]

Here are just 5 very good reasons I am a Protestant.
Interesting contrast and good food for thought.

[SecretOfFatima]

I agree. i would love to see those points in the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) area.

Interesting contrast and good food for thought.

[Rick Otto]

If you'll tell me how.
I mean, is there an appropriate forum?
I don't want to stick it in someone's eye, so to speak.^_^

And what should we name the thread? "Dissect This"?;)

[SecretOfFatima]

Rick & Elderone,

I was hoping not to engage into this discussion, but unfortunately it has to be done.

I found the source of those exact same views, and just for your information catholics have already passed comment and answered to them on another forum.

Here is the thread in case some of you would like to read it.
http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6419[/URL]

I do not want to promote more evil but in order to answer these points i have to give you the source of where those extremist points of view originate.
...I would much rather give you some links to some web sites where you could learn more about the biggest gift GOD can give us, LOVE.

As a brother in Christ let me also try to give you some advice, the world is already a danger place as it is, wouldn't it be much better If you keeped well way from those extremists views? Ironicaly I suspect It only goes to prove 1 of the points made in the first page of this same post, that the catholic church is the church which is being persecuted but the gates of hell shell not prevail against it.

Based on the source of that information, are you or any others here saying that catholics simply are not able to profess that Jesus is LORD?

Think about it for a few moments and try to be reasonable about what your heart tells you.

One only has to look where and how abortion came to exist to understand the errors of those outside the catholic church (the church that [URL="http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/thechurch.html"]Jesus establish (http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/printthread.php?t=6419&page=1&pp=25)(not build)).

=====================================
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve;
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in the valley of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious Advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us;
and after this our exile show unto us
the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

LET US PRAY

O God, whose only begotten Son, by his life, death,
and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of
eternal life, grant, we beseech you, that meditating
upon these mysteries of the most holy rosary of the
Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain
and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ
our Lord. Amen.
=========================================



May the LORD bless you and keep you
May the LORD also protect you from the attacks of Satan in sensitive matters such as these
May the materials coming from those individuals be used for the glory of GOD and not to glorify the works of Satan


If you'll tell me how.
I mean, is there an appropriate forum?
I don't want to stick it in someone's eye, so to speak.^_^

And what should we name the thread? "Dissect This"?;)

[Rick Otto]

It doesn't HAVE to be done.
I haven't obligated you on my part.
Feel free to let it go. I certainly can.

But I would like to impose upon your hospitality and patience for a moment, if I may.

You see, many of us who hold what we consider to be truths & you consider to be dangerous extremes, are intimately and sadly aware of just how dangerous this world is. We have studied the doctrines it offers as substitutes and the history of them & their authors.

I appreciate your offer of the link, but look whose telling who, what. For you to discredit these views by discrediting their source, is not dealing with the ideas themselves. And the reputations of the sources you provide are assailable both in history and at present, in very real terms, not just doctrine.

You do yourself no service by avoiding being able to articulate both the strengths & weaknesses of all positions involved. Otherwise, people might think you are intellectualy lazy and don't have the heart for God that serious study requires. Theu mightly rudely assume you are just a fan of the church and when it gets down to the hard work, you bail & simply reach for a link.
But not me.:)

I can certainly sense your sincerety and expect you will be willing to give us a brief few sentences about basicaly who these extremists are, and why they are so wrong.

No pressure!;)
Thanks!

[Elderone]

Those are great points, i would love to see those points in the OBOB (http://www.christianforums.com/f26) area...for the invitation but I will leave the debating to the younger, more qualified Protestants.

[LavenderLeaves]

I find it very interesting that you would state this.

Those are 150 reasons why I shouldnt be catholic.

Why?

1.) there is no sense of salvation at all.
2.) Although one may read the bible, how much of people actually read and take it to heart?
3.) catholism hasn't done much revival over the generations to those lost. in the testament Jesus says we should go out and make disciples.
4.) politics itself it one big mess with many prejudices. what you've stated sounds like one big code of laws and rules. Didnt Jesus had mad at pharoah, not once and three times for living by standardized laws?
5.) ....I still can't see why i should be a catholic.

But however, I do love being a Christian. I can actually walk out what god has called for me in the freedom of unlimited grace and love. I dont have to supress myself to anyone or any law or any ritual.

[If Not For Grace]

Best One-Sentence Summary: I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the biblical data, offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity (i.e., Christian, apostolic Tradition), and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality, spirituality, social ethic, and philosophy.



Really and how many others have you studied?

[SecretOfFatima]

Hi Dyanm,

Maybe the following people can answer your question better
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=Journey+Home


May the LORD bless you and keep you

Really and how many others have you studied?

[Morgaine1205]

I had made a mod-hat post a few pages back regarding debating in this forum, however since this thread continues to turn into a congregational debate, I am going to permanently close this thread.