What causes sickness? [Archive]

Andrew

24th February 2003, 01:56 AM

ALL OF THE ABOVE SNUP! :)

¥ Just a part of nature (after the fall)/Result of the fall

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

¥ Sin causes sickness

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

¥ Demons cause sickness

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Ac 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

¥ Being under the Law

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
.... 61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

Blade

24th February 2003, 03:22 PM

I would agree with Andrew. Take Satan out the picture your left with God. Its really not God that does it. What would happen if we obey God? If the curses can happen if we reject and willfully disobey God then that would have to mean the BLESSINGS will happen to.

SnuP

24th February 2003, 04:04 PM

We who are christians have been freed from the consiquences of the fall.
In order for demons to influence us they have to have ground to munipulate.
Demons and nature are just the carriers of the judgement of God.

Judgement comes to all who sin while under the law. And that judgement is the curse of sickness, death and distruction in every area of our lives.

Therefore sickness comes from sinning while being under the law. Demons and nature are the delivery method for that curse.

But praise to to God 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” (Galations 3:13)

So how does one keep from getting sick?
Galations 6:7,8
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. or according to strongs perpetual life.

In other words like Jesus said a well spring of life giving flow would come from our spirit giving life to every member of our body and the body of Christ.

So if we sow to the Spirit than we will by the Spirit fulfill the Law in Christ.
And we will reap the blessing of Deut. 28:1-14.

FaithtoFaith

24th February 2003, 04:12 PM

Very Interesting....I have heard many variations on the teaching of sickness. I believe that God allows us to become sick for whatever reason He deems necessary. I do wonder if God allows us to become sick because of sin, when we are not under the law? I believe he uses it to accomplish many different purposes, not just punishment to the individual who becomes sick. For instance, my two year old son will get sick out of no where, but won't really be acting sick. Usually, God is doing something that day that he needs me to be available at home instead of work. During these times, He will use me or reveal something to me through television, etc. Now with that said, I have a thyroid condition and I have wondered what was at the root of it. My mother also has it as one of my sisters. So can it be generational curses or something that we are not taking to the Lord. What do you think?

SnuP

24th February 2003, 04:22 PM

I would have to agree that it is a generational curse. Probably from a judgement of some kind. This judgement then would be taught to you and your sister, when you came into agreement with it then it began to manifest in you and your sister. Judgements are always from out of the law. You are reaping what your mother has sown and maybe ever your self.

My mom and sister both had exima. It was from a judgement that my mom had against men. A man had taken advantage of her when she was younger. My sister came into agreement with that judgement. The exima left when God showed them the judgement and they repented. By repenting of the darkness of that judgement they were able to recieve the life of God's truth, and the curse was removed since they were no longer under the law in that area.

SpiritPsalmist

24th February 2003, 04:29 PM

Well, according to scripture sin entered the world (Rom 5:12) through one man's act of dissobedience.

The children of Isreal, during their 40 year trek in the wilderness were sickness and poverty free as long as they obeyed the law that God set before them. When they dissobeyed, they were ridden with sickness and death and poverty.

Deut 28:15-68 has been referrence several times already, but let's take a look at some of the things it says.

V15 "But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

In Gal 3:13 we are told we are redeemed from the curse of the law.

Gal 6:7 God will not be mocked and that we reap what we sow.

So, I checked the box that "sin" is what causes sickness. It may not be your sin but it is somebodys sin.

Back to Deut: 16: cursed in the city and in the field (business)
V 17: your basket and kneading trough is cursed (food)
V 18: The fruit of your body, your land, and your animals.
V 19: our coming in and going out is cursed
V 20: curses of confusion and rebuke in every enterprise
V 21: pestilence will cling to you
V 22: consumption, fever, inflamation, drought, mildew
V 23: the heavens will be as brass (our prayers will not be heard)
V 24: your land becomes worthless and unproductive
V 25: struck down while your enemies watch. Your efforts to overcome them will fail.
V 27: boils, tumors, scurvy, itching and no medicine will work to get rid of it.
V 28: madness, blindness, confusion in mind and heart
V 29: oppression and money going as if there are holes in your pockets
V 30: your spouse committing adultry. You do all the work but someone else enjoys the fruit of your labor
V 31: your methods of provision break down
V 32: children taken away and nothing you can do about it.

. . .and the list goes on and on and on to verse 68.

In all honesty, I've seen some of these curses on my own life and on my family. However, God has also shown us how to get out from under the curses we have reaped because of the sin sowed.

I have seen deliverence in my life in most of these areas and I am still in the process of coming out from under a few others. God is the deliverer. As long as we walk in obedience.  Even if we are reaping what one of our ancesstors sowed. 

SUNSTONE

24th February 2003, 04:41 PM

Yesterday at 04:48 PM unitedistand said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=671630#post671630)

well yes, of cource, if you don't follow what God's said, God put things onto you, but I'm telling predominately dealing with warfare and things of that nature.

Of course, I could have been lied to while in warfare to think I was ill in the body, but I'm just saying from expierience

 ex: when being oppressed, I used to get sick to my stomach a lot

The bible says that the battle is in the mind. I have seen sickness come into the family, one will get it, and the others, will be fearfully waiting for it to arrive. Sure enough they always got sick. I always looked at them, like they were crazy, because some how I knew they were bringing it on to themselves, without realizing it. I very very rarely got sick.

Joyce Myers was talking about the battle of the mind, and how we have strength in joy. She also talked about how negotive thoughts causes us to have problems. So she started to tell alot of jokes for about 5 to 10 minutes, she had the whole place rolling. After she was done she asked for a show of hands, that had a headache before she told the jokes. It was on radio but she said there were hands raised up all over the place. Then said she proved her point.

SnuP

24th February 2003, 04:46 PM

I would like to say that even though you and I are posting almost the same thing that I disagree on one point but I believe that it is important.

As long as we walk in obedience.

The problem that I have is that this suggest that we can be obedient, but we can not. Obedience can also come from out of under the law. The point is that we are not supposed to be under the law at all.

The Law is primarily right verses wrong. Grace is primarily the pouring out of God love regardless of our position for the purpose of a mutual relationship.

So for clarities sake we do need obedience born out of love for our Father. But we don't need obedience because it is what we think is the right thing to do.

What we really need is a relationship. Sowing into the Spirit is the reality of that relationship.

SnuP

24th February 2003, 04:49 PM

Today at 01:41 PM SUNSTONE said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=673306#post673306)

The bible says that the battle is in the mind. I have seen sickness come into the family, one will get it, and the others, will be fearfully waiting for it to arrive. Sure enough they always got sick. I always looked at them, like they were crazy, because some how I knew they were bringing it on to themselves, without realizing it. I very very rarely got sick.

Joyce Myers was talking about the battle of the mind, and how we have strength in joy. She also talked about how negotive thoughts causes us to have problems. So she started to tell alot of jokes for about 5 to 10 minutes, she had the whole place rolling. After she was done she asked for a show of hands, that had a headache before she told the jokes. It was on radio but she said there were hands raised up all over the place. Then said she proved her point.

Good point, negetive thinking is definately a good way to sow into darkness. 

Terri

24th February 2003, 05:20 PM

SnuP I didn't vote because I don't know what causes sickness.  It is probably everything on your list and then some.

I have been sick for many, many years.  I rejoice in my suffering.  If I had not been ill I do not believe that I would have learned to lean on and trust God the way that I have.

God never allowed me to loose hope and he has slowly lead me into things that have improved my heath although I am still sick.  I have been in such misery that I have prayed to die.  The enemy even tried to use my suffering for years to get me to kill myself.  Praise God!!  He has seen me though it all in Jesus Name. 

Learning to follow His leading, learning patience, learning to trust in Him completely even unto death has been the greatest joy in my life.

1PE 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2 As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

RO 5:3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Blindfaith

24th February 2003, 08:57 PM

I would have to agree that it is a generational curse. Probably from a judgement of some kind.

John 9:1-4 {emphasis mine}

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.  His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, his man or his parents, that he was born blind"?

"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in this life.  As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me.  Night is coming, when no one can work.  While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

SpiritPsalmist

24th February 2003, 09:22 PM

Today at 02:46 PM SnuP said this in Post #17 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=673318#post673318)

So for clarities sake we do need obedience born out of love for our Father. But we don't need obedience because it is what we think is the right thing to do.

What we really need is a relationship. Sowing into the Spirit is the reality of that relationship.

I agree whole heartedly SnuP.  That is what I meant. :)

Thanks for clarifying that for us brother.

Andrew

25th February 2003, 02:39 AM

I do wonder if God allows us to become sick because of sin, when we are not under the law?

Well the problem is that a lot of Christians still put themselves under law. usu its a mixture of law and grace. by this i mean self efforts to get right with God, rituals, traditions, leaning on trying to fulfill the 10 commandments, things they do or works to try to earn the blessings of God. Hence, they come under the curse of the Law.

The other thing is that although Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, if a Christian does not even know this, then the devil has a field day with him -- my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, says the Lord.

Andrew

25th February 2003, 02:47 AM

Terri, I dont mean to be offensive but if you read the scriptures you posted in context, the suffering mentioned has nothing to do with sickness but persecution and abuse for being a good Christian.

I certainly agree that in the trial you are going through, God has used it for good -- ie you are leaning more on Him and depending on Him and closer to him. But I hope you dont believe God made you that way (as many ill Christians do) and that he wants you to stay that way.

So while you may still rejoice IN your suffering, I hope you are not rejoicing FOR it.

Continue to trust God and believe wholeheartedly that he wants you well totally. Your deliverance will come if you perservere in faith. :)

God bless

Terri

25th February 2003, 06:36 AM

Yesterday at 11:47 PM Andrew said this in Post #23 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=674428#post674428)

Terri, I dont mean to be offensive but if you read the scriptures you posted in context, the suffering mentioned has nothing to do with sickness but persecution and abuse for being a good Christian.

I certainly agree that in the trial you are going through, God has used it for good -- ie you are leaning more on Him and depending on Him and closer to him. But I hope you dont believe God made you that way (as many ill Christians do) and that he wants you to stay that way.

So while you may still rejoice IN your suffering, I hope you are not rejoicing FOR it.

Continue to trust God and believe wholeheartedly that he wants you well totally. Your deliverance will come if you perservere in faith. :)

God bless

I am not offended Andrew. :)

Andrew I'm not sure I understand what you believe.  Do you think it would have been better if I had never been sick?  I don't think I would be as close to the Lord as I am now if I had never been sick. 

If suffering produces perseverance;  perseverance, character; and character, hope how would any one ever get these if they were not subject to persecution and abuse for being a Christian.  Would that mean that there is not hope for others to develop these traits?

How do you believe one develops these traits without suffering as you say by persecution and abuse for being a Christian.

Andrew I have faith that God could heal me at any point in time.  I have faith that the traits that the Lord is teaching me by my suffering far outweigh the joys of being totally healthy.  This body I am in is only temporary--the character and hope that will be produced by the suffering will be eternal.

Of course I had rather not be sick.  But, unless you can tell me how my faith is refined without trails, I had rather be sick in this life and continue to have my faith refined so that it may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

I hope I am wrong, but it seems you are saying that your faith will only be true faith as long as your life is without trials--you seem to be saying that trails, the suffering they produce and the positive traits that result are due to a lack of faith.  I see the opposite--I feel that trials are a very positive thing and without them your faith will remain weak because it has never been refined in the fire.

I love you in the Lord Andrew!  :hug:

SnuP

25th February 2003, 02:02 PM

It is interesting to me how many people will use the situation of one man to establish doctrine for the intire church.

So what if this one mans sickness had nothing to do with sin, what does that have to do with anything.

The man was sick simply because he was under the law. Jesus is right there is not perticular sin that you can point your finger at. The very fact that he was a man living under the law and unable to keep all of the law, just like anyone else who lives under the law, made him sick.

Remember the law of sowing and reaping which governs the whole univers. It is a law of physics. For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction. So if a man gets sick there is a cause. And the cause is not just happenstance.

SnuP

25th February 2003, 02:26 PM

Terri, without trying to judge your situation, one possibility, I think that maybe you got sick because you weren't as close to the Lord as you should be. One problem that I see in your thinking is that you believe that the only good way to grow is through trials and suffering. Andrew is right when he says that the scriptual suffering is not sickness rather it is rejection by men because of Christ. God can produce godly traits in you without suffering and draw you closer to Him without forcing you to depend on Him. The truth is that you did not get sick so that you would be forced to depend on Him more. That is not love. You probably got sick because you were not depending on Him already, which is accually living under the law.

sklippstein

25th February 2003, 03:46 PM

Terri I agree with u. Good post

Terri

25th February 2003, 03:47 PM

Everyone is free to think I am a horrible Christian or else I wouldn't be sick.  I knew this was a possibility when I posted my story.

I do not hold it against you.  :)

God knows my heart.  I will leave it up to him to judge me--I don't even judge myself.

Terri

25th February 2003, 03:52 PM

Today at 12:46 PM sklippstein said this in Post #27 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=675134#post675134)

Terri I agree with u. Good post

Thank you sklippstein.  :hug:

You make me feel not so alone!

SpiritPsalmist

25th February 2003, 05:16 PM

Today at 01:47 PM Terri said this in Post #28 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=675136#post675136)

Everyone is free to think I am a horrible Christian or else I wouldn't be sick.  I knew this was a possibility when I posted my story.

I do not hold it against you.  :)

God knows my heart.  I will leave it up to him to judge me--I don't even judge myself.

Terri,

My sister, I don't believe SnuP said you are a horrible Christian.

by SnuP

Terri, without trying to judge your situation, one possibility, I think that maybe you got sick because you weren't as close to the Lord as you should be. One problem that I see in your thinking is that you believe that the only good way to grow is through trials and suffering. Andrew is right when he says that the scriptual suffering is not sickness rather it is rejection by men because of Christ. God can produce godly traits in you without suffering and draw you closer to Him without forcing you to depend on Him. The truth is that you did not get sick so that you would be forced to depend on Him more. That is not love. You probably got sick because you were not depending on Him already, which is accually living under the law.

Terri, this thought could be applied to all of us.  I don't know that any of us are continuously as close to the Lord as we should be.  I believe there are times that we are but then we tend to become distracted again and wander just a little bit off.  

It's during those times of being just a little bit off that our enemy can get his foot in the door and the attack is on.  We can recognize it as an attack and take steps, outlined for us in scripture to ward off the effects of the attack.  Or, we can just say, Oh well, I'm just sick, God is teaching me a lesson.

Yes, God will teach us things during times of sickness but it is not His will that we be sick in order to learn them.  Would'nt you much rather that your child learn how to not put his hand in a fire without him having to get his hand burned? 

God feels the same way.  But if we are going to touch it anyway, He will definately teach us something from the process of our hand being burned becasue we did it. 

Quaffer

Terri

25th February 2003, 07:18 PM

Quaffer, I wasn't singling anyone out in my comment. :)

I know some people think you don't have enough faith or you wouldn't be sick.  They have a right to believe it.  I don't believe it. 

I bet Job wouldn't agree with them either. ;)

 

Andrew

25th February 2003, 11:51 PM

Terri,

You obviously misunderstd me.
1. My point is that if you read the scriptures you posted on Chrisitan suffering in its entire context/chap, you'll will discover that it has nothing to do with sickness, but persecution for being good Christians. The early church were persecuted, ridiculed, beaten, thrown in jail, scorned at by ungodly people etc. That's the suffering they went through which brings forth perserverance, strength, etc. Yes, good Christians can expected to suffer this way. In fact, Paul says something is wrong if you never get persecuted for your faith.

2. Faith for healing has nothing to do with your faithfulness. Just becos you are sick does not mean you are not a good Christian. Some Christians have faith for evangelising some have faith for fund raising for kingdom work but it doesnt mean one is better than the other. Likewise faith for healing. Can anyone of us say that our faith for healing has been perfected? Of cse not! Quaffer and I, for eg, still fall sick (though rarely by the grace of God), so we are still developing our faith in this area, as with all other areas of our Christian walk. So, I believe you are growing in faith in this area too.

so pls stop accusing us of saying things that we never said, like you are a horrible Christian with no faith, etc.

I have written a short article on the sufferings of a Christian (just what is the Christian expected to suffer. Is sickness one of them?) using Paul's example and Peter's teaching on suffering, and how God delivers us out of ALL trials. If u are interested, please pm me and I'll give you the website:

Terri

26th February 2003, 12:32 AM

Andrew if I ever accuse you of anything I will use your name!! ;)

SnuP

26th February 2003, 03:12 AM

operating under the law is one of the easiest things to do since we all have been doing it since we were born. It is only natural for us to alway think in terms of right and wrong. I should didn't do this or I should do that. Even how good a christian we are is only determined by a legalistic way of thinking. IE a christian should have a good relationship and strong faith and shouldn't sin too much. But God doesn't waist it time judging our position. He knows what we have gone through and what it will take to make us free. Having you free is what is important to God, not how strong you are of a christian. Your ability to trust Christ is accually determined by how free you are rather than how good a christian you are. It is unrealistic to compare ones persons freedom to anothers since no one has the same experiences and stuggles.

If law is the reason for sickness than faith may have very little to do with your healing. Your freedom is more important to God than your miracle. If your sickness is caused by a lack of freedom, than freedom is what you need for the healing to manifest rather than faith.

Terri

26th February 2003, 04:52 AM

SnuP I feel free.  I feel great joy because of my freedom.  I trust God for everything.  I know I am not under any law.   

But, what is your definition of free?  Perhaps I am missing something. 

Please take it point by point--not too much at once--so it can sink in. :)

dignitized

26th February 2003, 02:06 PM

plain and simple - Existances with a fallen nature causes sickness both in ourselves and in others.

dignitized

26th February 2003, 02:10 PM

WHY are people stressing over what causes sickness? Lets focus on what supercedes sickness - a relationship with Jesus Christ. Christ makes sickness bearable or curable. Christ makes suffering tolerable and poverty loose its curse. Lets get our eyes OFF the carnality and carnal issues such as wealth and health and onto Christ :) and the internal eternal relationship with him. Proof of a walk with God is not a lack of sickness, but in how you deal with sickness. DO you allow sickness to destroy you, or do you overcome it to grow closer to Christ?

SnuP

26th February 2003, 02:19 PM

Christ does not make sickness bearable.

show me a scripture were Christ did that. Christ delivers and heals from sickness.

chelcb

26th February 2003, 02:24 PM

Today at 11:19 AM SnuP said this in Post #38 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677364#post677364)

Christ does not make sickness bearable.

show me a scripture were Christ did that. Christ delivers and heals from sickness.

But what if he don't, what are we as Christians to think then?

dignitized

26th February 2003, 02:29 PM

:sigh: you are so caught up in incidents of life that you are missing the substance.

SnuP

26th February 2003, 02:29 PM

You have to come in contact with Jesus in order for His power to be released. Most people don't want to pause long enough to even see Jesus in their circumstance, never mind bring healing. The other thing to realize is that all sickness is a simptom of a greater problem. Deut. clearly points that out. Most people don't want the real problem dealt with they just want the simptoms dealt with. But Christ deals with all or none usually.

SnuP

26th February 2003, 02:34 PM

Today at 11:29 AM Br. Max said this in Post #40 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677375#post677375)

:sigh: you are so caught up in incidents of life that you are missing the substance.

No.  The majority of what you said is true.  Healing does come from relationship.  (see my signature)  But being able to bear sickness is not the work of Christ, because you are still in the bondage of that sickness.  Why would you think that God want sickness to come before His throne?  If Deut is true than sickness comes from a curse.  Does God want a curse in His presence?

SnuP

26th February 2003, 02:45 PM

Today at 01:52 AM Terri said this in Post #35 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=676631#post676631)

SnuP I feel free.  I feel great joy because of my freedom.  I trust God for everything.  I know I am not under any law.   

But, what is your definition of free?  Perhaps I am missing something. 

Please take it point by point--not too much at once--so it can sink in. :)

I too feel very free, but the more I learn about my self and what God desires for me the more I can see the bondage in my life. 

Compared to most people I'm a very happy loving joyous person, yet we all seem to struggle with somethings. 

Habbitual ways of thinking that are reationary rather that the fruit of the spirit.  Frustration, anger over little things, complaining, depression.  All are the results of humanities failing efforts to deal with their situation.  This is legalism.  Everyone has a little legalism in them, us trying to do what we believe to be right.

Freedom is what is depicted by Jesus in the surmon on the mount.  The lifestyle of non-worrying, a complete abandonment of our desires to the presence and fellowship of God.  It is haveing a constant awareness of God and His comunication.  It is watching God and doing what He is doing.  It is not worrying about weather it is right or wrong ever, but only weather God want it done and when.  It is a real relationship with God and His church, a relationship that consist of mutual conversation, the expression of ideas, feeling, and love from both parties and the connection to God on every level, Spiritual, soulical, and physical.  Experiencing His reality on all levels and His interaction.  Anything less is not freedom.

SpiritPsalmist

26th February 2003, 03:29 PM

Something God showed me as I was thinking about this thread last night . .

There was a time, many years ago, when I thought the best thing to put on a burn was butter. I would have swore by that method. However, now I've learned that butter is actually a very bad thing to put on a burn.

What is actually a very good thing to put on a burn, immediately, is ice. I've burned myself pretty bad a couple of times in the kitchen and right away stuck my hand in the freezer and barely even retained a red mark from the burn, much less blistering, etc.

I asked God to remind me of some of the burns where I put butter on it. I don't remember anything really major but I do remember the burn marks staying red and sometimes blistering, and scaring.

Anyway, getting to the point. When we get burned by the enemy if all we want to do is learn to cope with it, then it is like the application of butter. What follows is emotional and physical irritation that more often than not forms blisters and creates scars that are seeable and feelable to not only you but to everyone around you.

It is not a situation for anyone to judge. As humans we all are susceptible to the tiniest of openings in our armor that will let the enemy get a foothold. Check out the story in 1 Kings, chapter 22.

Ahab and Jehosaphat went to war against Syria. Ahab, being a coward, told Jehosaphat that he would disguise himself in armor instead of his royal robes. But he told Jehosaphat to wear his royal robes.

In the meantime the king of Syria, had told his men to attack only Ahab, the king of Israel. When they saw Jehosaphat they thought he was Ahab and began shooting at him, but Jehosaphat cried out, identifying himself.

The army of Syria withdrew. However, some lone bowman, just for the heck of it, shot his arrow. Here is verse 34 (Amplified) "But a certain man drew a bow at a venture and smote [Ahab] the king of Israel between the joints of the armor."

Between the joints of Ahabs armor there was an opening. An arrow of the enemy found it's way to that exact point and Ahab bled to death.

All of us are told to put on the armor of God (Eph 6:13-18). We can have that armor on yet still there may be a very small opening for the arrows of the enemy to get through.

If an arrow gets through there is a means of taking care of it. We don't have to bleed (life of the body) to death.

First it's realizing that the enemy has gotten a foothold somewhere. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where. He is faithful to do that. Once He's shown you, do what is necessary to close the breach so no more arrows get through. Then begin applying the "washing of the water of the Word" (Eph 5:25-27). Remember the ice?

The washing of the Word sanctifys and cleanses, that "He might present us to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing: but that it should be holy and without blemish".

That does not mean that we may not have to wait on the manifestation in the flesh, but we can wait with patience, perseverience, hope, and expectaion, for our complete healing and that He will faithfully see through to the end what He has started. (Rom 8:33-39)

Terri

26th February 2003, 06:04 PM

I believe the turning point for me in my illness was when I accepted that I might die from my illness.  I decided I was going to live or to die with the Lord.  I feel I indeed felt the sentence of death--but this happened that I might not rely on myself but on God, who raises the dead.

2CO 1:8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. 9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. (I know this verse is talking about persecution but, I believe that God uses all circumstances to make us stronger in him and this verse applies to everyone.)

I believe that this total trust in God whether I lived or died is what made it possible for God to start me on a process of healing.  I came to believe that whether I lived or died was not important--my total trust in God was what was important.  I still believe that!  I can truely rejoice that I completely know in my heart that to live is Christ and to die is gain.  I do desire more than I can say to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far!  This is not God's will for me since I am still here. :)

PHP 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

Terri

26th February 2003, 06:27 PM

After I put my complete trust in God as explained in my previous post, then God began to work on my thinking. 

As SnuP pointed out we all have ways of thinking that are harmful to us.  God showed me that any thought that is contrary to what the bible says is harmful. 

One example...you are always hearing from the worlds point of view that certain foods are bad for you.  Well what does the Bible say about that--1TI 4:3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if is is received with thanksgiving 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

We need to replace every thought that is against God's Word with His Word!!  :)

 

 

Blade

26th February 2003, 06:33 PM

Today at 10:29 AM SnuP said this in Post #41 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677377#post677377)

You have to come in contact with Jesus in order for His power to be released. Most people don't want to pause long enough to even see Jesus in their circumstance, never mind bring healing. The other thing to realize is that all sickness is a simptom of a greater problem. Deut. clearly points that out. Most people don't want the real problem dealt with they just want the simptoms dealt with. But Christ deals with all or none usually.

Hay SnuP, great name. I agree with what you posted before and now. But a question. What power do we have? Things that Jesus said get me thinking like 'behold I give you power' or when Jesus sent them out two by two and they came back and said 'even the demons are subject unto us through your name' and when Peter and John were at the gate and said to the man sitting there 'look on us, silver and gold have I none but such as I have'. Its the 'such as I have' now yes EVERY thing is by God, Jesus but what do you think? I think this is about sickness to if not sorry..

Terri

26th February 2003, 06:43 PM

God made me see the importance of bringing every thought into captivity.  This is a second by second battle.  Every time you have a thought that is against what the bible says you must replace it with what the Bible says.

2CO 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

I use to have great anxiety, even panic attacks.  God showed me that this was a spirit of fear.  The Bible says God did not give us a spirit of fear.  The solution.  Learn to recognize every fearful thought you have and replace it with what God says.  This is very difficult at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.  And the reward is exceedingly great--joy like I have never known before.

I no longer have a spirit of fear.  I am constantly quoting the Bible to myself.  "Be anxious for nothing"--"Do not worry"--"Trust in the Lord with all your heart"--"God did not give us a spirit of fear".

We are in a great spiritual battle--God has given us what we need for that battle. :)

Terri

26th February 2003, 07:00 PM

God showed me how important it is to keep your mind and your heart set on spiritual things not on earthly things.  The Bible says we have died with Christ--dead people aren't very concerned with earthly things.  :)

COL 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

God is very jealous--I have had to give up everything I wanted in this life for that "pearl of great value."  The price is well worth it!!!!!! :)

MT 13:45"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.

 

dignitized

26th February 2003, 08:50 PM

Today at 12:34 PM SnuP said this in Post #42 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677385#post677385)

No.  The majority of what you said is true.  Healing does come from relationship.  (see my signature)  But being able to bear sickness is not the work of Christ, because you are still in the bondage of that sickness.  Why would you think that God want sickness to come before His throne?  If Deut is true than sickness comes from a curse.  Does God want a curse in His presence?

Romans 15:1

We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Corinthians 11:30

If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:5

Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:9

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Corinthians 12:10

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

1 Timothy 5:23

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Hebrews 4:15

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Psalm 22:24

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

seebs

26th February 2003, 08:54 PM

I always thought sickness was caused by very very small things, which are generally called "viruses" or "bacteria". This is generally called the "germ theory of disease", and works for most things, except for hereditary illnesses and cancers.

I don't see this needing any particular justification; it's obvious, it's testable, we can get pictures of the little things multiplying. It's like asking "what causes dead mice", and looking at cats, and then demanding Scriptural support for the theory that cats kill mice, when we can *SEE* cats killing mice.

dignitized

26th February 2003, 09:03 PM

seebs: lol some people just wanna blame some one for everything :)

Terri

26th February 2003, 09:12 PM

 

2CO 12:9 is great!!  It brings me much comfort and much joy.  I am very very weak--so I am strong!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

2CO 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.  
                                                                                        

                                                                                    

                                                                                 

  

SpiritPsalmist

27th February 2003, 09:56 PM

Yesterday at 07:12 PM Terri said this in Post #53 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=678081#post678081)

 

2CO 12:9 is great!!  It brings me much comfort and much joy.  I am very very weak--so I am strong!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

2CO 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.  
                                                                                        

                                                                                    

                                                                                 

  

Terri,

From what I have understood of your last few posts you are an example of exactly what I have been trying to point out.  As you've said, your mind and your heart are to be kept on Him.  Then "out of the abundance of your heart" your words will agree with what God says, and only good can come from that.  

I am blessed by what you have shared. 

Thank you.

Quaffer

Terri

28th February 2003, 02:10 AM

Today at 06:56 PM Quaffer said this in Post #54 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=680361#post680361)

Terri,

From what I have understood of your last few posts you are an example of exactly what I have been trying to point out.  As you've said, your mind and your heart are to be kept on Him.  Then "out of the abundance of your heart" your words will agree with what God says, and only good can come from that.  

I am blessed by what you have shared. 

Thank you.

Quaffer

Thanks Quaffer!!

Glad to hear someone read it--thought I might just be talking to myself. http://luvjc.net/emoticons/laughing/0020.gif

SnuP

28th February 2003, 02:29 AM

Yesterday at 05:54 PM seebs said this in Post #51 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=678042#post678042)

I always thought sickness was caused by very very small things, which are generally called "viruses" or "bacteria". This is generally called the "germ theory of disease", and works for most things, except for hereditary illnesses and cancers.

I don't see this needing any particular justification; it's obvious, it's testable, we can get pictures of the little things multiplying. It's like asking "what causes dead mice", and looking at cats, and then demanding Scriptural support for the theory that cats kill mice, when we can *SEE* cats killing mice.

So do you just throw out Deut. 28 because you can examine the carrier of the curse under the microscope.  That is like people in the 16 century believing that magets came from raw meat because they could see with their eyes that magets alway developed on raw meat.

SnuP

28th February 2003, 02:37 AM

Yesterday at 03:33 PM Blade said this in Post #47 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677794#post677794)

Hay SnuP, great name. I agree with what you posted before and now. But a question. What power do we have? Things that Jesus said get me thinking like 'behold I give you power' or when Jesus sent them out two by two and they came back and said 'even the demons are subject unto us through your name' and when Peter and John were at the gate and said to the man sitting there 'look on us, silver and gold have I none but such as I have'. Its the 'such as I have' now yes EVERY thing is by God, Jesus but what do you think? I think this is about sickness to if not sorry..

We have the power of agreement with authority.  It is not our authority but Christ.   So we have to constantly look to Him to find out how He wants to deal with the situation.  That is why I have been talking about Him wanting to heal the cause (the mindsets) rather than the simptom (the sickness).  We have the same power that Christ had, but Christ always remained in agreement with what He saw the Father doing.  We as Christians never want to seem to remain in this type of position.  We don't remain in contact with God and we don't wait to see what He is doing.

Auntie

28th February 2003, 05:03 AM

Yesterday at 11:29 PM SnuP said this in Post #56 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=680979#post680979)

So do you just throw out Deut. 28 because you can examine the carrier of the curse under the microscope.

If it is a "curse", then why do antibiotics rid the body of diseases?

Andrew

28th February 2003, 05:21 AM

If it is a "curse", then why do antibiotics rid the body of diseases?

they dont. antibiotics are only used against bacteria, not viruses. even then, they only help the body fight the infection.

also the curse is not the disease. it is a state or position. medicine may help get rid of the disease, but if you are still under the curse, it will come back again.

we're also not saying that every disease is a direct curse.

Auntie

28th February 2003, 06:01 AM

Today at 02:21 AM Andrew said this in Post #59 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681181#post681181)

they dont. antibiotics are only used against bacteria, not viruses. even then, they only help the body fight the infection.

Antibiotics have saved many lives. Including the lives of lepers. There was a day when people thought leprosy was a curse, but now it can be completely cured with antibiotics. Leprosy is caused by bacteria.

also the curse is not the disease. it is a state or position. medicine may help get rid of the disease, but if you are still under the curse, it will come back again.

If a person was truely under a "curse", then no amount of medicine in the world would help that person. Medicine doe not temp cure "curses".

we're not saying that every disease is a direct curse. but the topic here is talking abt gen curses. so perhaps more like heriditary diseases like diabetes, hear failure, alchohol abuse etc. IOW, if you parents or granparents had it, must you then resign yourself to what your doc says and suffer it too?... an expect your children to suffer it too? or can you break it by the power of God's truths?

Hereditary diseases are caused by mutations in our genes. It's totally genetic. Like eye color or hair color. God is not in the "cursing business", God is in the healing business. I don't believe there is any such thing as a curse. God heals some things, and not other things. It's His choice, His decision. God has healed me of many things, and yet I have scoliosis since I was a child. Why doesn't God heal me of scoliosis? I don't know, but I don't question His decision. I trust Him with it. Disease is terrible, especially in children. Visit a Pediatric Hospital, it will break your heart. And not one of those children's diseases are caused by sins in their lives, or a curse. Disease is a part of life, even as death is a part of life. We can't escape death, and we can't escape disease. We should always pray for healing, but it is God's decision. Surrender everything to Him.

didaskalos

28th February 2003, 07:57 AM

Terri,

I like your signature...

"Jesus is enough!!!!!!! "

I wonder if everyone really believes this. I sometimes think that even though people say Jesus is enough, when it comes down to the works that accompany such faith, it would seem not.

My point is,  if we believe that Jesus is enough... that He accomplished everything that was needed for our redemption, our justification, and our santification, then we will not try to add to His work by other methods. If He is the author and finisher of our faith, then we do not need sickness, poverty, sorrow or shame to add to it. When we say our sickness or pain is somehow adding to the work that God accomplished through Jesus on the cross, we are implying that Jesus failed, and that we have to take up the slack that Jesus left.

Please understand I am not judging or accusing or in any way slighting your faithfulness. I am just pointing out that Jesus already did for you what you are claiming you are doing for yourself.

One of the greatest hinderances to healing is the idea that God has to add to what Jesus did by causing us to suffer also. This is contray to the entire concept of who God is, His nature, and the revelation of who Jesus is and what He came for. God does not perfect us by suffering.

This is a lie we must refute as a matter of faithfulness to Him and faithfulness to the gospel.

Jesus indeed is enough!!!

 

 

SpiritPsalmist

28th February 2003, 03:09 PM

Today at 04:01 AM Auntie said this in Post #60 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681210#post681210)

Antibiotics have saved many lives. Including the lives of lepers. There was a day when people thought leprosy was a curse, but now it can be completely cured with antibiotics. Leprosy is caused by bacteria.

But Auntie, when did bacteria become a problem to a body?  I don't believe Adam and Eve, their family membors or any living thing had a problem with bacteria before the fall. 

Today at 04:01 AM Auntie said this in Post #60 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681210#post681210)

If a person was truely under a "curse", then no amount of medicine in the world would help that person. Medicine doe not temp cure "curses".

By curse, we mean something that is passed down from one generation to another.  Not the local witch putting a spell on you. 

Medicine generally does not "cure" anything, it just keeps it under control.  Such as the high blood pressure medicine my doctor has me on.  It is not curing me it is merely blocking it from getting too high.  High blood pressure is something that runs on both sides of my family. 

According to my doctor, there are steps I can take naturally to take care of the problem.  But I have to be willing to do what she says.  If I'm not, then the medicine is only a blocker and over time would need to be increased and the problem of high blood preasure would still be there.  

Because of what Jesus did for me at the cross I believe I am no longer under the curse that my family history carries.  The enemy is lying to me and my body is temporarily manifesting the lie.  I trust that the manifestation of healing will show up any moment now.  :)

I believe that God, in His mercy has given man more and more knowledge of ways to help people who need it.  Science all by itself has not figured this stuff out.

Science can only keep the problem under control but God completely wipes it out.

Today at 04:01 AM Auntie said this in Post #60 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681210#post681210)

Hereditary diseases are caused by mutations in our genes. It's totally genetic. Like eye color or hair color. God is not in the "cursing business", God is in the healing business. I don't believe there is any such thing as a curse. God heals some things, and not other things. It's His choice, His decision. God has healed me of many things, and yet I have scoliosis since I was a child. Why doesn't God heal me of scoliosis? I don't know, but I don't question His decision. I trust Him with it. Disease is terrible, especially in children. Visit a Pediatric Hospital, it will break your heart. And not one of those children's diseases are caused by sins in their lives, or a curse. Disease is a part of life, even as death is a part of life. We can't escape death, and we can't escape disease. We should always pray for healing, but it is God's decision. Surrender everything to Him.

I don't care what science says about diseases, but diseases were not there before the fall.  So I conclude that they are curses, due to the fall, of which Christ died to free us from, therefore, we no longer have to "live" with it.

God does not curse us.  We've already established that. 

When we are in Christ, we are redeemed from the curse.  However, if we choose to sow as if we are still under it then we will reap the affects of it even though it's not really there.

Satan is a lier.  He comes to kill, steal, and destroy.  If we believe his lies then we are killed, stolen from, and destroyed.  In every area of our lives. 

SnuP

28th February 2003, 04:09 PM

either there is a curse or ther isn't. Either your actions outside of Christ can place you under a curse or they can't.

Either Deut. 28 is true or it is a lie. You decide.

Auntie

28th February 2003, 05:52 PM

Everyone in this thread will one day die of disease, or an accident. But the overwhelming majority of people die of disease in their body. You can't escape it. To assert that this is a curse, is to assert that we are forever cursed, even unto death.

Blade

28th February 2003, 06:08 PM

Today at 01:52 PM Auntie said this in Post #64 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682082#post682082)

Everyone in this thread will one day die of disease, or an accident. But the overwhelming majority of people die of disease in their body. You can't escape it. To assert that this is a curse, is to assert that we are forever cursed, even unto death.

Not me, I do not receive that..

Blade

28th February 2003, 06:18 PM

Today at 12:09 PM SnuP said this in Post #63 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681955#post681955)

either there is a curse or ther isn't. Either your actions outside of Christ can place you under a curse or they can't.

Either Deut. 28 is true or it is a lie. You decide.

I think Paul was telling Christians that if God did not spare Israel form cutting them off when they sinned , He would not spare others Ro 11. So if we continued to obey God then God will continue to bless anyone. So when the righteous turn from richteousness and commit sin, thay are cursed again by God. Dt 11:1-68, Ex 32:32-33, Lev 26. Does not really tie in here but in 1Peter 4:17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18, And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?.

Auntie

28th February 2003, 06:29 PM

Today at 03:08 PM Blade said this in Post #65 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682119#post682119)

Not me, I do not receive that..

You don't receive what?? That we die??:confused:

Terri

28th February 2003, 06:42 PM

Today at 04:57 AM didaskalos said this in Post #61 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681278#post681278)

Terri,

I like your signature...

"Jesus is enough!!!!!!!"

I wonder if everyone really believes this. I sometimes think that even though people say Jesus is enough, when it comes down to the works that accompany such faith, it would seem not.

My point is,  if we believe that Jesus is enough... that He accomplished everything that was needed for our redemption, our justification, and our santification, then we will not try to add to His work by other methods. If He is the author and finisher of our faith, then we do not need sickness, poverty, sorrow or shame to add to it. When we say our sickness or pain is somehow adding to the work that God accomplished through Jesus on the cross, we are implying that Jesus failed, and that we have to take up the slack that Jesus left.

Please understand I am not judging or accusing or in any way slighting your faithfulness. I am just pointing out that Jesus already did for you what you are claiming you are doing for yourself.

One of the greatest hinderances to healing is the idea that God has to add to what Jesus did by causing us to suffer also. This is contray to the entire concept of who God is, His nature, and the revelation of who Jesus is and what He came for. God does not perfect us by suffering.

This is a lie we must refute as a matter of faithfulness to Him and faithfulness to the gospel. 

Jesus indeed is enough!!!

 

Having my faith refined in the fire is NOT adding to what Jesus did on the cross. :)

But, thank you for your concern for me.  ;)

    1PE 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Terri

28th February 2003, 06:53 PM

Today at 03:08 PM Blade said this in Post #65 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682119#post682119)

Not me, I do not receive that..

:wave:  Blade

Does this mean you are expecting the rapture? :)

Or, do you just expect to not die.

SpiritPsalmist

28th February 2003, 07:04 PM

Today at 04:29 PM Auntie said this in Post #67 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682164#post682164)

You don't receive what?? That we die??:confused:

What scripture says that the only reason people die is due to disease or accident?

What about OLD AGE?  That's not a disease or an accident.  I've know plenty of people who, is was just their time to go.  They were not sick, and they were not in an accident.  They just plainly, checked out . . .from this world into the next.  Other than the rapture or a firey charriot or just not being there anymore (like Enoch), I can't think of a better way to go . . .can you?

Blade

28th February 2003, 07:05 PM

Today at 02:29 PM Auntie said this in Post #67 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682164#post682164)

You don't receive what?? That we die??:confused:

 :) No I know we all die. I have known alot of people that loved the lord that just went to sleep and went home. I ment no disease for me.

Blade

28th February 2003, 07:10 PM

Today at 02:53 PM Terri said this in Post #69 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682204#post682204)

:wave:  Blade

Does this mean you are expecting the rapture? :)

Or, do you just expect to not die.

 :wave: Terri

 Ok I receive that :D :clap:. Expect, hope and pray.  Or just to die peacefully.

SpiritPsalmist

28th February 2003, 07:21 PM

Today at 05:10 PM Blade said this in Post #72 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682230#post682230) 

 Ok I receive that :D :clap:. Expect, hope and pray.  Or just to die peacefully.

                           :clap:

YES AND AMEN    :D

YES AND AMEN     :P

YES AND AMEN     

                                                                                  

Auntie

28th February 2003, 07:29 PM

Today at 04:04 PM Quaffer said this in Post #70 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682222#post682222)

What scripture says that the only reason people die is due to disease or accident?

I didn't say "the reason" we die is because of disease. The obvious reason we die is so we can go to be in Heaven with Jesus. God can use disease to take us to go be with Him.

What about OLD AGE?  That's not a disease or an accident.  I've know plenty of people who, is was just their time to go.  They were not sick, and they were not in an accident.  They just plainly, checked out . . .from this world into the next.  Other than the rapture or a firey charriot or just not being there anymore (like Enoch), I can't think of a better way to go . . .can you?

Exactly, old age is not a disease, no one dies of "old age". Interesting, last night I watched the movie "Driving Miss Daisy". Adella was in the kitchen watching TV and shelling peas. The pan in her lap dropped to the floor, peas falling all over the floor. Adella was dead. In the blink of an eye, she was gone. God was merciful to Adella, she was blessed to die so easy. But she DID die of SOMETHING. Heart failure maybe, or possibly a stroke. The point is God took her when and how He wanted to. (I know, it was just a movie).

Auntie

28th February 2003, 07:34 PM

Today at 04:05 PM Blade said this in Post #71 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682224#post682224)

 :) No I know we all die. I have known alot of people that loved the lord that just went to sleep and went home. I ment no disease for me.

I pray that disease is never a part of your life, Blade.:)

Terri

28th February 2003, 07:37 PM

Today at 04:21 PM Quaffer said this in Post #73 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682253#post682253)

                           :clap:

YES AND AMEN   

         YES AND AMEN  

YES AND AMEN   

 :wave:            

     YES AND AMEN  

YES AND AMEN     

  YES AND AMEN 

                                   :pink:  

        YES AND AMEN  

YES AND AMEN   

        YES AND AMEN

I love it Quaffer, what a work of art!! :D

 Glad to know I'm not the only one here expecting, hoping, and praying!!  :)

SpiritPsalmist

28th February 2003, 07:41 PM

Today at 05:29 PM Auntie said this in Post #74 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682269#post682269)

I didn't say "the reason" we die is because of disease. The obvious reason we die is so we can go to be in Heaven with Jesus. God can use disease to take us to go be with Him.

Exactly, old age is not a disease, no one dies of "old age". Interesting, last night I watched the movie "Driving Miss Daisy". Adella was in the kitchen watching TV and shelling peas. The pan in her lap dropped to the floor, peas falling all over the floor. Adella was dead. In the blink of an eye, she was gone. God was merciful to Adella, she was blessed to die so easy. But she DID die of SOMETHING. Heart failure maybe, or possibly a stroke. The point is God took her when and how He wanted to. (I know, it was just a movie).

I dissagree.  People do die of old age.  Like I said, I've heard of many people dying of old age. 

Maybe. . .possibly . . .? I'll ask the question again.  Where does it say in scripture that people die only of disease or accidents.

You've said that God does not curse people but then also say that God chooses to take people home via sickness.  :scratch: Does not make sense to me. 

Auntie

28th February 2003, 08:03 PM

Today at 04:41 PM Quaffer said this in Post #77 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682295#post682295)

I dissagree.  People do die of old age.  Like I said, I've heard of many people dying of old age. 

People die when they are old because their bodily systems are worn out. Years of stress on the body eventually takes it's toll on all of us. But God has the last word, it is HE who decides how and when we will die.

Maybe. . .possibly . . .? I'll ask the question again.  Where does it say in scripture that people die only of disease or accidents.

People die of lots of things, Quaffer, do you need scripture to tell you this?

You've said that God does not curse people but then also say that God chooses to take people home via sickness.  :scratch: Does not make sense to me. 

It is not a curse to take sick and die. God is sovereign, He can call us home to Heaven in whatever way He chooses. We die when and how He chooses. It is a very Holy moment. It is not for us to decide, but God.

Outspoken

1st March 2003, 12:09 AM

I agree with auntie. You can die of disease, old age, even cancer and it can be part of God's plan. If he calls you home at 30 you can't very well die of old age..LOL.

sklippstein

1st March 2003, 12:11 AM

It is not a curse to take sick and die. God is sovereign, He can call us home to Heaven in whatever way He chooses. We die when and how He chooses. It is a very Holy moment. It is not for us to decide, but God.

 

I agree!  Why do some still think that sickness is caused by sin? :scratch:

Auntie

1st March 2003, 03:10 AM

Today at 09:11 PM sklippstein said this in Post #80 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682759#post682759)

 

I agree!  Why do some still think that sickness is caused by sin? :scratch:

Hi sklippstein.:wave: Well, sickness can be the *result* of sin, the natural consequence of sin. For example, an alcoholic might end up being very sick because he had too much to drink.

But the people in this thread are talking about something entirely different, something along the lines of falling under a curse every time you sin, and the curse itself causes illness. And that you are under the curse if you are unfortunate enough to not know about the curse. I guess that's where sick children come into the picture. Blah. I don't believe it.

God created disease, God created bacteria and viruses, they belong to Him. All of creation belongs to Father God. God says He causes the rain to fall on the good and the bad, the just and the unjust. A Godly person can have a relatively disease free life, and die a relatively peaceful death. BUT, the same thing can happen to an atheist. All atheists are NOT sick, and all atheists don't experience painful deaths.

sklippstein

1st March 2003, 11:34 AM

Auntie, i agree..........sickness is NOT caused by a curse. IF that were the case, they why did the appostles get sick? ONE thing i did notice that Jesus NEVER got sick........nothing that is recorded in the bible, anyways.

SpiritPsalmist

1st March 2003, 12:51 PM

Yesterday at 06:03 PM Auntie said this in Post #78 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682342#post682342)

People die when they are old because their bodily systems are worn out. Years of stress on the body eventually takes it's toll on all of us. But God has the last word, it is HE who decides how and when we will die.

Auntie, this was your post #64

 Everyone in this thread will one day die of disease, or an accident. But the overwhelming majority of people die of disease in their body. You can't escape it. To assert that this is a curse, is to assert that we are forever cursed, even unto death. 

The body attacking itself is not the way God created the body to work.  When God formed Adam and Eve, it was intended that they live for eternity.  But when they ate what they were told not to eat, their body bagan to decay and operate in a manner that was opposite the way God had initially formed it. 

Death of the flesh is inevitible but it does not have to be because of it attacking itself.  Just because that's the way the overwhelming majority of people do it does not mean that I am doomed to do it the same way.

People die of lots of things, Quaffer, do you need scripture to tell you this?

You're taking my question out of it's context Auntie.  My question was "where is the scripture that says the only way one dies is by disease or accident"  That was your statement in post #64

It is not a curse to take sick and die. God is sovereign, He can call us home to Heaven in whatever way He chooses. We die [b]when and how He chooses. It is a very Holy moment. It is not for us to decide, but God.

Yes, it is!

In Gen 2:16, 17 (NKJ) God said to Adam "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Notice, God did not say "you will get sick or be in an accident and die". He said "you shall die".

Death is the curse that came as a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  None of us are saying that we can decide when and how we go.  We're saying we don't have to go sick. 

Sickness is a curse from not listening to God and obeying Him. Deut 28:15 (NKJ) "But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:"  Those are God's words.  Are we to call Him a lier?

In Deut 28:1-14 is God's promise to those do listen and observe.  Verse 1 says, "Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefull all His commandments which I command you today, that the LORD your God will set you high above all nations of the earth".

Then for 13 more verses there is a list of all the blessings and while it does not promise they will never experience death, it does not say they will experience it by sickness, or accident.  The only times in scriptue that people died this way was in direct judgement from God for their blatant dissobedience. 

Unless the rapture comes "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27), we know we will someday die in the flesh.  But it is not required that it be by sickness or accident.  No matter what the overwhelming majority does. 

I choose to follow Christ, not the overwhelming majority.

Auntie

1st March 2003, 05:53 PM

Today at 09:51 AM Quaffer said this in Post #83 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683560#post683560)

The body attacking itself is not the way God created the body to work.

I didn't say anything about "the body attacking itself", and I really don't know what you mean by that statement. God designed our immune system to attack invaders of the body. There are some diseases in which the immune system is attacking the body, but WHAT does that have to do with "old age"?:scratch: Old age is not a "disease", no one dies because they are old! I challenge you to show me ONE death certificate that says: "Cause of death--Old Age". Don't even bother, it doesn't exist!

You're taking my question out of it's context Auntie.  My question was "where is the scripture that says the only way one dies is by disease or accident"  That was your statement in post #64

I didn't use the word "only". The #1 cause of death for young people(in USA) is accidents. The #1 cause of death for older people is heart disease. OF COURSE people die of many other things!

Yes, it is!

I don't believe it, sorry. You keep quoting the OT, I find that very interesting.

Sickness is a curse from not listening to God and obeying Him.

Hogwash. Your statement CONDEMNS innocent little children, God have mercy that you would believe such a thing. You are falsely judging, convicting and sentencing God's little ones.:(

And you make God a liar, because there are MANY thousands of HEALTHY atheists walking around! Are atheists somehow immune to this "curse"? If your words were true, then ALL atheists would be sickly and die young of horrible disease. It's just not true!

I don't care to argue about this. You are free to believe what you want.

On a personal note, my mother was a Godly person who died young of cancer. AND YET, her sister is an ATHEIST living a LONG and HEALTHY life!! My aunt was raised in the church, baptised, and a believer! About 15 years ago, she became atheist and has totally rejected God and the Bible. She has NO illness in her, and is very healthy and prosperous!

SpiritPsalmist

2nd March 2003, 04:38 PM

Yesterday at 03:53 PM Auntie said this in Post #84 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683953#post683953)

I didn't say anything about "the body attacking itself", and I really don't know what you mean by that statement. God designed our immune system to attack invaders of the body. There are some diseases in which the immune system is attacking the body, but WHAT does that have to do with "old age"?:scratch: Old age is not a "disease", no one dies because they are old! I challenge you to show me ONE death certificate that says: "Cause of death--Old Age". Don't even bother, it doesn't exist!

Auntie, I don't know quite how to respond, because the more I try, the more irate you seem to get.  

When God designed the body the immune system worked without fail.  But since the fall, it does fail and more and more frequently attacks the body it is supposed to be protecting.   

OK, so you seem to view my usage of the term old age as a "reason" for dying.  I apologize. That is not how I was using it.  I don't plan to die until I am old.  So in my opinion that would be dying of old age.  Perhaps I should change it to dying IN old age. LOL

[B]Yesterday at 03:53 PM Auntie said this in Post #84 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683953#post683953)
I didn't use the word [b]"only". The #1 cause of death for young people(in USA) is accidents. The #1 cause of death for older people is heart disease. OF COURSE people die of many other things!

Auntie, you said, "Everyone in this thread will one day die of disease, or an accident."  Again I apologize, you listed only 2 options here so I concluded that you felt there were no others to consider.  My option of course being dying IN old age and not sick.

Yesterday at 03:53 PM Auntie said this in Post #84 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683953#post683953)
I don't believe it, sorry. You keep quoting the OT, I find that very interesting.

If you go back to my post #15 you'll see that is untrue.  Death and sickness are curses which originated according to disobedience. (OT)  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law. (NT)

However, if we continue to walk as under the law, we will reap what we sow.  From one generation to another. But those curses can be broken by our walking "as children of light and not darkness". (NT)

[B]Yesterday at 03:53 PM Auntie said this in Post #84 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683953#post683953)
Hogwash. Your statement CONDEMNS innocent little children, God have mercy that you would believe such a thing. You are falsely judging, convicting and sentencing God's little ones.:(

My statements are not one's of condemnation.  Since "by His stripes we are healed", that is freedom.  The law says sick people are condemned to stay that way.  I'm saying that according to Jesus, they aren't.

[B]Yesterday at 03:53 PM Auntie said this in Post #84 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=683953#post683953)
And you make God a liar, because there are MANY thousands of HEALTHY atheists walking around! Are atheists somehow immune to this "curse"? If your words were true, then ALL atheists would be sickly and die young of horrible disease. It's just not true!

I don't care to argue about this. You are free to believe what you want.

On a personal note, my mother was a Godly person who died young of cancer. AND YET, her sister is an ATHEIST living a LONG and HEALTHY life!! My aunt was raised in the church, baptised, and a believer! About 15 years ago, she became atheist and has totally rejected God and the Bible. She has NO illness in her, and is very healthy and prosperous!

Only those who call themselves free (saved) yet continue to walk as under the law.  If they are athiest then they are not calling themselves saved.  And I would call their healthiness, God's mercy and grace extended to them. 

Even before we knew Him, He died for us.  Body, soul, and spirit.

Auntie

2nd March 2003, 05:41 PM

Today at 01:38 PM Quaffer said this in Post #85 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685306#post685306)

Auntie, I don't know quite how to respond, because the more I try, the more irate you seem to get.  

I don't mean to sound irate, sorry.:sorry: It's just that you seem to be using sickness as a "sign" that someone is out of God's will. And that sounds so totally judgemental of some poor soul who is sick. We are called to pray for the sick, helping them all we can. Telling them they are sick because they are living out of God's will is judging them. Some sick people ARE living out of God's will, of course. But not ALL.

OK, so you seem to view my usage of the term old age as a "reason" for dying.  I apologize. That is not how I was using it.  I don't plan to die until I am old.  So in my opinion that would be dying of old age.  Perhaps I should change it to dying IN old age. LOL

Mother Teresa, a very Godly woman who devoted her life to helping the poor and the sick, died IN old age, OF heart disease.

Auntie, you said, "Everyone in this thread will one day die of disease, or an accident."  Again I apologize, you listed only 2 options here so I concluded that you felt there were no others to consider.  My option of course being dying IN old age and not sick.

Sorry again, I was only speaking of the most common causes of death, not the only causes of death. My own dad was murdered, so of course I know that there are other ways to die, it's just that murder is not very common, but disease and accidents are extremely common.

Only those who call themselves free (saved) yet continue to walk as under the law.  If they are athiest then they are not calling themselves saved.  And I would call their healthiness, God's mercy and grace extended to them. 

My aunt was a saved Christian, a baptized believer in Christ as her Lord and Savior. NO ONE, not even herself, can pluck her out of Jesus hand. Her husband abandoned her, and it shook her faith. I think she felt God had abandoned her too. My hope is she will one day come back to her faith, and back to God. I think, deep down inside, she is angry at God, but to the world she professes atheism. I tell my aunt that I am praying for her, and she always says she appreciates my prayers. That tells me a lot about her.

seebs

2nd March 2003, 05:49 PM

I always think the "sickness is a sign of poor faith" people have it backwards.

The real faith is when you *aren't* healed, and you still believe.

Auntie

2nd March 2003, 06:05 PM

Today at 02:49 PM seebs said this in Post #87 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685464#post685464)

I always think the "sickness is a sign of poor faith" people have it backwards.

The real faith is when you *aren't* healed, and you still believe.

Amen, bro seebs!:) Sometimes you post things that are so totally from the heart of God, you have a lot of insight.:) Thank you! I'm thinking of Joni Erickson Tada, who has been in a wheel chair for most of her life, and what GREAT faith she has!

SpiritPsalmist

2nd March 2003, 06:13 PM

Today at 03:41 PM Auntie said this in Post #86 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685449#post685449)

I don't mean to sound irate, sorry.:sorry: It's just that you seem to be using sickness as a "sign" that someone is out of God's will. And that sounds so totally judgemental of some poor soul who is sick. We are called to pray for the sick, helping them all we can. Telling them they are sick because they are living out of God's will is judging them. Some sick people ARE living out of God's will, of course. But not ALL.

I'm sorry that is how I sound to you. In my opinion I am not saying that people are sick because they are living out of God's will.  Please see my post #30 in this thread.

[B]Today at 03:41 PM Auntie said this in Post #86 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685449#post685449)

Mother Teresa, a very Godly woman who devoted her life to helping the poor and the sick, died IN old age, OF heart disease.

Sickness can hit any of us at any time.  It's knowing what to do and then following through with the knowledge one has.  I and others have stated many times that faithfullness or the lack thereof has nothing to do with whether one manifests healing or not.

Also, one may have great faith for one thing and then very little faith in another.  I have great faith in God's provision for me but when it comes to MY body manifesting healing, it is a struggle.  I  choose to believe in my unbelief. 

[B]Today at 03:41 PM Auntie said this in Post #86 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685449#post685449)

Sorry again, I was only speaking of the most common causes of death, not the [b]only causes of death. My own dad was murdered, so of course I know that there are other ways to die, it's just that murder is not very common, but disease and accidents are extremely common.

Like I said in a previous post.  While these may be common reasons for people to die, I do not believe that we, as Christians are limited to what the common way is.  I believe that many Christians limit themselves to the common way because that's the only choice they believe they have.  They just don't know that there is freedom from the law that says we have to die due to sickness or accident. 

I'm sorry to hear about your dad.  That must have been a very difficult thing to work through.  I had a very close friend who was murdered and it took me a long time to work through it.

Today at 03:41 PM Auntie said this in Post #86 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685449#post685449)

My aunt was a saved Christian, a baptized believer in Christ as her Lord and Savior. NO ONE, not even herself, can pluck her out of Jesus hand. Her husband abandoned her, and it shook her faith. I think she felt God had abandoned her too. My hope is she will one day come back to her faith, and back to God. I think, deep down inside, she is angry at God, but to the world she professes atheism. I tell my aunt that I am praying for her, and she always says she appreciates my prayers. That tells me a lot about her.

I believe it was David who lamented about seeing the unrighteous flourish while the righteous struggled.  But the Word says that sin is fun for only a season.  David also said, "I have never seen the righteous forsaken, OR their seed begging for bread."

I don't claim to know all the in's and out's of how things work.  I just believe that if sickness attacks me, I can attack it back and that the prayer of faith will heal.  I know that in the name of Jesus I am healed.  My body may not manifest that healing right away, but I keep believing.

God promises to faithfully see through to the end what He started.  I will agree with you in prayer that your aunt does return to God and that her faith become even stronger.

Auntie

2nd March 2003, 06:41 PM

Today at 03:13 PM Quaffer said this in Post #89 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685507#post685507)

David also said, "I have never seen the righteous forsaken, OR their seed begging for bread."

Maybe David never saw it, but I have(seed begging for bread). Jesus tells us to feed the hungry. As Christians in general, I don't think we do such a good job of this, although most of us try to. There are a lot of hungry Christians out there, especially the elderly living on Social Security, barely getting by.

I don't claim to know all the in's and out's of how things work.  I just believe that if sickness attacks me, I can attack it back and that the prayer of faith will heal.  I know that in the name of Jesus I am healed.  My body may not manifest that healing right away, but I keep believing.

I believe that too.:) God has healed me of many things, especially after I have cried out to Him for His Divine healing. I have also witnessed Divine healing in others.

Blade

2nd March 2003, 07:59 PM

28th February 2003 at 03:34 PM Auntie said this in Post #75 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682285#post682285)

I pray that disease is never a part of your life, Blade.:)

;) hay I'm a big boy I know how you ment it. I know you did not mean it for anyone.  

Blade

2nd March 2003, 08:15 PM

28th February 2003 at 08:09 PM Outspoken said this in Post #79 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=682753#post682753)

I agree with auntie. You can die of disease, old age, even cancer and it can be part of God's plan. If he calls you home at 30 you can't very well die of old age..LOL.

Hi Outspoken

There is no scripture for that.

My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them no depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. Proverbs 4:20-22

The word of God is what you stand on not what has or is happening to people around you. Show me the person that Jesus would not touch because he was gona call them home? There is none. Everyone Jesus touched that needed healing he did it. Now there were people he did not heal because of there unbelief.

Where in Gods holy word does it say disease, cancer is part of Gods plan? 

Evee

2nd March 2003, 08:28 PM

My mothers doctor told her stress breaks down the immune system.

 You are open to all sorts of diseases once the immune systems gets weak. 

 I believe myself that many diseases have a spiritual root.

Has anyone ever heard of Hashimoto Disease it is supposed to be a breakdown in relationship with God man and others. 

 I read that somewhere but not sure where. 

 I try to avoid stress at all costs but not always possible.

 Stress always makes me feel bad.

Blade

2nd March 2003, 09:03 PM

Today at 02:05 PM Auntie said this in Post #88 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685492#post685492)

Amen, bro seebs!:) Sometimes you post things that are so totally from the heart of God, you have a lot of insight.:) Thank you! I'm thinking of Joni Erickson Tada, who has been in a wheel chair for most of her life, and what GREAT faith she has!

Hi Auntie :wave:

We should not look at other people and have that be our answer. The "poor faith" does at times have alot to do with it but what we eat, and do to our own body is our fault not Gods. Then when something does happen (God forbid) people like to say its Gods will or God just called them home. It is sad but most people wait untill something bad happens to them and then try to believe and have faith. Proverbs 4:2-:22 that scriptrue alone, ask your self do you attend to Gods word? Do you keep them infront of you all the time? Do you keep them in your heart? Lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. We have to stand on Gods word and never ever move. To me its like if you say God sometimes heals and sometimes he does not. Then God sometimes saves and sometimes he does not. We believe on a scripture just because God said it, John 3:16. You don't feel saved do you? No you know your saved because God said it and if he said it he will do it. And if someone comes along and says I don't feel saved do we then say "well then your not". God does not go by feelings. I know its silly but there is a truth here. We like to say that God wants everyone saved but not healed. He wanted them healed in the OT and wanted them saved and healed when he was here. It is written God never changes. He is the same then and now.

You don't learn this over night. The word of God says you can not please God without faith. Faith with out works is dead. You have to work your faith in small things and build from there. Deut 28 was true then and still ture now. When something happens to me I always say it is written. I have learned all this by myself from God not any man.

Blade

2nd March 2003, 09:04 PM

Today at 04:28 PM Evee said this in Post #93 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685777#post685777)

My mothers doctor told her stress breaks down the immune system.

 You are open to all sorts of diseases once the immune systems gets weak. 

 I believe myself that many diseases have a spiritual root.

Has anyone ever heard of Hashimoto Disease it is supposed to be a breakdown in relationship with God man and others. 

 I read that somewhere but not sure where. 

 I try to avoid stress at all costs but not always possible.

 Stress always makes me feel bad.

I have not. I really just wanted to say 
 :wave: :wave: Evee

Evee

2nd March 2003, 09:09 PM

:wave: Hi Blade glad to see you.

Evee

2nd March 2003, 10:06 PM

I found out what Hashimotos disease is it is Thyroid disease.
I am not sure how that could be a breakdown with God or anyone else do you?

Auntie

3rd March 2003, 05:40 AM

Yesterday at 04:59 PM Blade said this in Post #91 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685720#post685720)

;) hay I'm a big boy I know how you ment it. I know you did not mean it for anyone.  

I was truely wishing you well, that's all.:) And if you are generally healthy now, there's a very good likelihood that you will indeed live a long and healthy life.:)

Thank you for your other post too.:) God's blessings always.:angel:

SpiritPsalmist

3rd March 2003, 12:24 PM

Yesterday at 04:41 PM Auntie said this in Post #90 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=685563#post685563)

Maybe David never saw it, but I have(seed begging for bread). Jesus tells us to feed the hungry. As Christians in general, I don't think we do such a good job of this, although most of us try to. There are a lot of hungry Christians out there, especially the elderly living on Social Security, barely getting by.

Auntie, instead of concluding that the error is on the part of the seed, you conclude that God does not follow through with His promises?

There are many scripturs where God makes promises of provision for whatever we need.  One of my favorites is PS 91:1-3(Amplified) "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand].  I will say of the Lord, He is my Refuge and my Foirtress, my God; on Him I lean and rely, and in Him I [confidently] trust! For [then] He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.  [Then] He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings shall you trust and find refuge; His truth and His faithfulness are a shield and a buckler."

There's also the one in the NT where Jesus refers to God caring for us more than the lillys of the field, who neither toil or fret over what they will wear or eat.

Scripture does not say we will never experience want, but it does say He will not leave us in want.  I don't believe we can ever fully understand mercy if we are never in position to receive mercy. 

A person truely leaning upon God will not be going to other people for their food.  While God generally uses people to meet these needs, for us to go begging is lack of trust in His promise to keep us.

Ps 23:1 The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want.

Auntie, God keeps His promises.  If there is error, it's on our part, not His. 