[OPEN]HaKotel - A place at the Wall of Prayer

[Pray4Isrel]

I wanted to start a fellowship thread here in the Messianic forum where we can all come to chat about less "Doctrinal/Theological/Philosophical" things and maybe relate more on a personal level. I named it "Aliyah" which means "Up to Jerusalem".

Gotta love the name! Very creative if I do say so myself! ;)

This is a gathering place of sorts where we can share and get to know each other a little better. Share testimonies, prayer requests, praise reports, stories, ask questions, share good clean jokes,chat about the weather, share Scripture... whatever you want!

Please share! We all desire more personal relationships with our fellow brothers and sisters in Yeshua... what better place to start than here?

[Pray4Isrel]

Alrighty, I'll go first.

I really really love Messianic praise and worship music. Has anyone heard of Paul Wilbur? He's awesome. His albums are incredible and the beauty of it is that a couple of the CD's are actually recorded live from Jerusalem. It is so amazing to hear the voices of thousands singing praise to the Messiah in the Holy Land! :clap:



Ok, and here's a funny story that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was just talking about: This is a true story!
I was making dinner the other night while my husband was telling me a humorous story. Well being that I am on the computer too much, instead of laughing I said "LOL"! How crazy is that! I actually said LOL instead of laughing :eek:

[Talmid HaYarok]

Ack, I've caught myself saying "LOL" a few times as well. Internet Jargon is quickly becoming the new in-slang for some of us. Scary.

Maybe its my age, but I've never been into "Messianic music". These days I find myself listening to a lot of non-mainstream Christian groups like P.O.D., Sixpence None the Richer, Brave Saint Saturn and some Israeli groups like Tipex or Sarit Hadad.

Also, if anybody wants to pray for me I'm currently working on applying to attend Grad. school in Israel. It would be my second time living and going to school over in Israel (I studied Hebrew at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem). Very exciting, I pray and pray that it works out. Now if I just spent as much time working on my application materials!

[Pray4Isrel]

I absolutely love POD, Sixpence, Jeremy Camp, Third Day, Nichole Nordeman as well! There is some great Christian music out there.

I am so excited to hear of your opportunity to go to Hebrew University! I receive all of their mailings and am very familiar with the school - it's quite a University. I will definitely pray for you as that would be an exciting opportunity.

I myself have been to Israel twice for a little over a month each time. I went in 97' and 99'... hope to get back there soon. in all honesty I would live there without hesitation. I studied there and also did misions work (hospitals, youth ministry, street dramas and singing, etc) When have you been? Please do tell as Israel is very close to my heart.

I went to Russia last summer and this summer I'll be going to China. I love missionary work. So I will definitely pray for your applying to Hebrew University and please if you get a moment, pray for my upcoming China missions trip? Sounds like a deal! :)

God Bless!

[Talmid HaYarok]

I went to school at Hebrew U. back in Summer/Autumn of 99. I spent my time studying the Hebrew language (which has gotten all to rusty on me), but mostly I spent my time in the city of Jerusalem with all it has to offer.

Such a deep culture(s), so much history, and everything. I could easily live the rest of my life there, though presently I don't feel I could immigrate there (despite the fact that I'm thinking of volunteering for the IDF).

This time around I'm applying to the Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. I miss Israel so much, I just feel so much more alive being there... like I'm only a shadow of who I really am when I'm away. Anyways I hope this summer is the time that the Lord would have me return.

[Pray4Isrel]

I miss Israel so much, I just feel so much more alive being there... like I'm only a shadow of who I really am when I'm away.
This, my friend, has been the cry of my heart...
Once you go there, you will never be staisfied not to be there...

[SonWorshipper]

I don't want to be picky here but just so those reading who don't know, and could mistakenly pass along wrong info, Aliyah is the Hebrew word that means "going up" If you were to be "going up to Jerusalem" it would be Aliyah l'Yerushalayim .

Perhaps it would have been better named "L'Mishpachah" because all who believe in Yeshua HaMessiach are FAMILY! :)

Now if you want to "Go up" we can sing

Come Let us go Up!

CHORUS:

Come let us go up, to the mountain of the L_rd
Unto the house, of the G_d, of Jacob
Come let us go up, to the mountain of the L_ord
Unto the house, of the G_d, of Jacob.

1. For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the L_rd from Jerusalem
We will walk in His footsteps
And He will teach us His ways

CHORUS

2. And He will judge many peoples
And decide for mighty nations far and wide
And swords will be beaten into plowshares
And nations will not learn war again.



Do you know where this is written in the Tenach? :) Yes, in that day, they will take hold of the fringes and say....................
Israel's Hope!

[SonWorshipper]

I have many of his CD's single and with his pioneer group " Israel's Hope".

Do you know of Marc Chopinsky?

[Pray4Isrel]

Thanks Sonworshipper!
Yes, I remember that "Aliyah" means "going up" but if you recall, many "Make Aliyah" meaning, a pilgrimage to Jerusalem or the Holy Land. Making Aliyah has become a common reference to the pilgrimage itself.
We are all, as Believers of Yeshua, on the longest "Aliyah" journey... we are on our way up! Aliyah represents to me the spiritual journey we are all on... and since I was searching for a name for our fellowship thread, God laid "Aliyah" upon my heart. We can gain many different insights about Aliyah... Also, while in Israel, "Aliyah" is commonly referenced as the journey and was used many times by the people while I was there... it is a meaning that has evolved over the years.
I am glad you brought the name up as I was hoping someone would ask why ;)

[JustinWilliams]

You guys are soooooo lucky!:cry: I wish that I could visit Israel. Currently I am enrolled at Liberty University in order to gain a BA in Biblical Studies. The only bad thing is that LU doesn't offer Hebrew as an undergraduate course so I am learning on my own.

I am really into Hebrew culture and Biblical Hebrew. I find it fascinating and awesome how God used people in such a relatively small nation to impact the world in such a great way! :bow:

[JustinWilliams]

Originally posted by Talmid HaYarok
Ack, I've caught myself saying "LOL" a few times as well. Internet Jargon is quickly becoming the new in-slang for some of us. Scary.

Maybe its my age, but I've never been into "Messianic music". These days I find myself listening to a lot of non-mainstream Christian groups like P.O.D., Sixpence None the Richer, Brave Saint Saturn and some Israeli groups like Tipex or Sarit Hadad.

Also, if anybody wants to pray for me I'm currently working on applying to attend Grad. school in Israel. It would be my second time living and going to school over in Israel (I studied Hebrew at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem). Very exciting, I pray and pray that it works out. Now if I just spent as much time working on my application materials!


Talmod Ha Yarok,

What are your thoughts on the Hebrew University course? My Bible 350 professor is a Hebrew nut and he has pamplets about courses offered at Hebrew University. I have been iterested in them for quite a while now but I didn't know what they would actually be like. Could you describe your experience?

Be well

Jesaiah

[JustinWilliams]

Lately I have been studying the book of Ezra and I must say: WOW! God was so Gracious and Great to those exiles :bow:

As Americans we neglect the wonderful truths about God that are given to us in the Tanach/Old Testament:(


Tonight I read Ezra 9, and my prayer is that I could be like Ezra. One who was broken before God for Israel's sin of intermarriage with their pagan neighbors and one who acknowledge God's Grace upon Israel even in their captivity. I wish that I too could be broken over my sin and ashamed before God!

I found it interesting that Ezra was described as one who not only studied God's Law but kept and taught it. We should learn from the man of God, Ezra. We should study, obey, and teach God's Word. :pray:


May God Be Glorified :bow:

[Talmid HaYarok]

Likewise the University that I got my B.S. from didn't have a Hebrew program. So don't let that deter you at all. There were a couple others schools within a few miles of my Alma Mater that did, but going to Israel itself to study Hebrew sounded much better... and of course it was.

The Hebrew U. program is in my mind excellent, my only complaint would be that it is too much of a classroom setting most of the time. But living in Israel you'll still have plenty of opportunity to speak Hebrew outside of the class if you choose (there are enough Americans and English speakers that you could get by if you were determined, I suggest avoiding that though). The main thing to be aware of is that you'd be learning Modern Hebrew, which isn't the same as Biblical Hebrew. Reading the Bible in Hebrew is then like trying to read Shakesperean english as a new english learner. So make sure you know where your interests lie, there are places to learn Biblical Hebrew in Israel as well. Learning Hebrew whether modern or biblical will completely change the way you look at the Bible and how you understand its stories.

I would not take any trip to Israel lightly though. While you are much closer to the Lord there, I would say it is also true that you're much closer to the evil one who wages war against him. You'll find an incredible history of the Lord's intervention there, but you'll also find an incredible history of human sin. Its a challenge for anyone to persevere there. Its a place filled with mighty potential, but its going to challenge you whether that potential is used to grow closer to the Lord or to fall away from him.

That my friend is probably about the best I can do to describe what it is to make Aliyah to Jerusalem.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

[Pray4Isrel]

Jesaiah said this in Post #10 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=643707#post643707)

You guys are soooooo lucky!:cry: I wish that I could visit Israel. Currently I am enrolled at Liberty University in order to gain a BA in Biblical Studies. The only bad thing is that LU doesn't offer Hebrew as an undergraduate course so I am learning on my own.

I am really into Hebrew culture and Biblical Hebrew. I find it fascinating and awesome how God used people in such a relatively small nation to impact the world in such a great way! :bow:


By all means, make an effort to get to Israel - you would find it to be such an awesome experience!

I know that the political climate is tense right now but maybe there will be a time that God would provide for you to get there.  Especially if you have an interest in the language and the culture.

I wish I could share my entire scrapbook online with you all ;) (it's 16 rolls of film - too much to load! LOL)

 

 

[Pray4Isrel]

Talmid HaYarok said this in Post #13 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=643917#post643917)
I would not take any trip to Israel lightly though. While you are much closer to the Lord there, I would say it is also true that you're much closer to the evil one who wages war against him. You'll find an incredible history of the Lord's intervention there, but you'll also find an incredible history of human sin. Its a challenge for anyone to persevere there. Its a place filled with mighty potential, but its going to challenge you whether that potential is used to grow closer to the Lord or to fall away from him.





Amen.  My experiences there were awesome but as you said, the Enemy is lurking... it will try your faith in many ways and force you to go through major growth.

It's good to know that I wasn't the only one who experienced the spiritual climate in that way. 




 

[Pray4Isrel]

Anyone else interested in some fellowship?
Join in!

[Pray4Isrel]

OK, I think I have it set up so that this will stay at the top for us :) This way it doesn't get lost in between all of the new threads!

Great idea, Jesaiah!

[MissytheButterfly]

Okay..someone take me to Israel please.. I am dying to go.. LOL. I see all the beautiful pictures on various websites and long to go..

[MissytheButterfly]

Everyone check this out:
http://www.airborne.org/images/israel/mount_olives.jpg

This is a picture of Jerusalem viewed from the Mount of Olives.. isn't it magnificent ?

Missy

[MissytheButterfly]

And this, I am sure some of you will just love.. it's Mount Zion.. magnificent !!
http://www.airborne.org/images/israel/mnt_zion.jpg

Pray4Israel, did you visit here ?

Missy

[Pray4Isrel]

Beautiful pics!
I have visited almost every place in Israel LOL, from camping in a Bedouin camp in the desert by the Dead Sea to the city of Tel Aviv, to hiking in the Golan Heights to the Western Wall in the Old City... etc.

Wouldn't it be great if we led a CF Israel tour? LOL :)

Oh I have two pics in my gallery here at CF that are pics I took while in Israel... check them out. Also I should scan some more in for fun.

[Talmid HaYarok]

I added a pic to my profile of nazareth. Didn't have anywhere else to add them so I'll try to cycle them through there. :)

[MissytheButterfly]

Yeah.. post some pics of Israel here everyone so I can drool.. LOL!

Missy

[Ruhama]

Ma nishma, kulam. *pulls up a chair*

Yeah, I went there too, loved it, wanna go back. :) 

Some late replies -

I was under the impression that "making aliyah" was only for immigration, hence the name oleh hadash, new immigrant. Or am I mistaken?

On the subject of modern hebrew vs. biblical - let me give you this advice. Learn modern Hebrew, because you will be able to read biblical with no problem once you have some fluency with modern. And you won't get the practice or the growth with biblical that you will with using a living language, so your studies will go MUCH faster. Also attend one of the many Hebrew-speaking churches there and you should be able to understand most everything without even having to study it.

[Pray4Isrel]

Shalom Ruhama!
When and how did you come about getting to Israel? I always love to know why people were led to go... it is a blessing to share with others who have been there. So tell us your story!
I can speak some converstaional Hebrew... it's been awhile though. I will be taking Hebrew through RTS in Orlando soon. Pray for me! ;) LOL Do you speak it as well?
God Bless,
P4I

[Talmid HaYarok]

btw - Pray4Isrel, if you think you've visited every place in Israel I'm sure I could come up with a few more you haven't. I was pretty active in getting out doing something new all the time I lived there and in those months I didn't get to see everything in Jerusalem, let alone the rest of Israel.

Did you get to go to Ein Gedi? That was one of my favorite places while I was over there.

[Ruhama]

Hey pray4isrel,

I thought it'd be fun to try out chatting in Hebrew :D so I started a thread for it, wanna try chatting with me?

I went to Israel on a study abroad program, was there for a little over eleven months. Spent a good deal of it just studying Hebrew but got to see a good deal of the country too. :) Got addicted to the people and the country, wanna go back.

[Pray4Isrel]

Yesterday at 09:35 PM Talmid HaYarok said this in Post #26 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=666281#post666281)

btw - Pray4Isrel, if you think you've visited every place in Israel I'm sure I could come up with a few more you haven't. I was pretty active in getting out doing something new all the time I lived there and in those months I didn't get to see everything in Jerusalem, let alone the rest of Israel.

Did you get to go to Ein Gedi? That was one of my favorite places while I was over there.




Ein Gedi was beautiful... at the time we hiked around though I was getting pretty dehydrated - we went in the dead of summer.  It was gorgeous though - the waterfalls, springs, and trails. 

Israel is a giant treasure to me - it has so many neat places to see...



 

[Pray4Isrel]

Yesterday at 11:24 PM Ruhama said this in Post #27 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=666560#post666560)

Hey pray4isrel,

I thought it'd be fun to try out chatting in Hebrew :D so I started a thread for it, wanna try chatting with me?

I went to Israel on a study abroad program, was there for a little over eleven months. Spent a good deal of it just studying Hebrew but got to see a good deal of the country too. :) Got addicted to the people and the country, wanna go back.



Great idea - I'll meet you there... but bear with me :)

[MissytheButterfly]

Um..where are all the pictures that i demanded that you all post!! ??!!

lol,
Missy

[Talmid HaYarok]

Just take a look at my profile, I don't have anywhere other than my profile to post pictures at right now. So I'll just rotate them through. Give all of you incentive to keep checking it.

Lunch time though, then maybe I'll update it. :D

[Pray4Isrel]

I have one next to my screenname too that I took of the Western Wall in Jerusalem. I used Adobe to turn it into a Black and White pic.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Speaking of which, everybody is familiar with Kotel Cam (http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/kotelcam/) right?

Catch it during the friday Sabbath for the most interesting activities. Speaking of which, its already past Sabbath in Israel, so

Shabat Shalom

[Pray4Isrel]

I love the Kotel Cam! :)
Just another thing to make me miss Israel :cry:

[MissytheButterfly]

Awwww... Pray4Isrel.. at least you have BEEN to Isreal..all I have seen are pics of it...

Now I am the one that needs to be crying! LOL!

Shalom,
Missy

[Pray4Isrel]

Yes, it is a disease though - once you go you will never feel at home anywhere but there! :)

 :cry:

[simchat_torah]

Shalom Mishpochah,

POD? I've been listening to them for about 8 + years? Eh, thier last album went mainstream, and I don't mean by how many albums they sold... but they abandoned their style and went holywood so to speak.

I also lived with Skillet for 6 months, and during that time I worked at a christian dance club/inner city ministry and met probably about 200 or so bands.... they stayed the night in our house after their performances, so I literally do mean 'met' the bands.

Anyway, that's all just fun facts ;-)

My grandparents on my mother's side left Poland during WWII and upon coming to the US found just as much antisemtism. So they converted to Christianity. My father's side is somewhat of a similar story but it goes back a few generations farther.

Both of my grandfathers became pastors. Needless to say I was brought up with a christian upbringing.

About 7 years ago I began studying things in christian doctrine and history that didn't add up (starting with christmas) as well I had a new found excitement in discovering my Jewish lineage.

Since then I have traveled quite far down the path. I have attended a Jewish synagouge for the past 2.5 years, and have taken multiple classes at a Yeshiva online.

Talmud HaYorak makes me very jealous (bad fleshly nature, down boy) because he may be going to Hebrew U. That is somewhere that I seriously contemplated going to. Unfortunately, HaShem had other plans for me as I've now been married very happily to a gorgeos Tzaddik woman.... Anastasia. She too has a similar story with her lineage.

After leaving christianity some years ago I attempted to go the 'messianic' route. However, what I discovered is that most messianic congregations are: church in a kippah
a little phrase I've coined and seems to have caught on. Anyway, most messy-anic congregations don't observe Torah, hold to varying forms of replacement theology, and primarily haven't given up the same pagan doctrines and practices of chrstiandom. There are a few that stand out from the crowd that differ from this norm, but it's very rare.

I've been attending a Conservative synagouge for quite some time, although my heart really lies within the Chassidic or Orthodox.... unfortunately, there's nothing in that realm anywhere near here. So you make do with what you have, nu?

I'll wait for some responses before boring you any more... he he he..

Shalom,
Yafet/Japheth.

p.s. Didn't someone here say they went to Urbana IL for a missions conference? I'm from Urbana, so if you see this, say hi!

[Ruhama]

Go, gird up thy loins and get thee to Hebrew U!!!!! Make your wife come with you! :D

[simchat_torah]

heh, only if they promise I can study directly under David Fluesser and his mentor... lol..

[Talmid HaYarok]

Heh heh, went to Hebrew U. Hopefully will get to return and go to Ben-Gurion University of the Negev this time.

As for myself I'm only part Jewish and not raised religious. My Jewish relatives kept many traditions, but thought it imperative not to be publically recognized as Jews.  :( As for when people ask me I will always tell them that I am part Jewish. No more, no less. I'm something of an oddity or novelty among family, friends, and enemies alike because of that and my "Christian" faith with "Jewish" religion.

(Pause, where was I going with this, got to wake up long enough to finish posting)

Why do you say anti-semitism caused your parents to convert rather than free choice? I don't believe one can truly convert into something unless it is by choice. Maybe you can be converted away from something.

Anyway, most messy-anic congregations don't observe Torah, hold to varying forms of replacement theology, and primarily haven't given up the same pagan doctrines and practices of chrstiandom. There are a few that stand out from the crowd that differ from this norm, but it's very rare.

Please don't judge a faith by its heretics, which I fear you may be doing. Some people would pervert the gospel which came from the Jews into a weapon to use against the Jewish people. I'm glad you can see the abuse, but I hope it doesn't sour you against the true message.

Okay, I'm too tired now to think clearly so I'll take this up again tomorrow. It keeps all of you coming back anyways.  ;)

Lila Tov

[simchat_torah]

Why do you say anti-semitism caused your parents to convert rather than free choice?


Sorry, if I said parents I meant my grandparents and their parents...
But they converted to christianity because the US was so full of antismetism, it just seemed that no matter where they went they encountered it. I don't really understand fully why they converted, I just know that this situation helped further them towards the direction of christianity. Maybe it was because of christianity, maybe it was merely an escape from persecution... I don't really know. I just know that the persecution did play a role in their conversion to an extent.

Anyway, I am not judging the 'messianic' movement by random heretics, but rather by the overwhelming majority of the MJ movement. I haven't said whether it is evil, etc... in fact, Hashem has moved greatly amongst many of those in the MJ movement.

However, to me, it is for the most part nothing more than christianity with a flavor of Judaism. I am not interested in flavors.

I know that there is as much diversity in the MJ movement as there is between Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch. ;)
You have Torah observant messianics with their own Beit Din, and you have those who are gentiles who meet on Sundays that are 'messianics'... and everything in between.

However, the leadership that directs the mainstream Messianic movement as a whole allows me to make a few general statements.

There are basically 3 major divisions within the MJ movement: J4J, UMJC, and MJAA.

Here's a few quotes from the three...

Moshe Rosen, the founder of Jews for Jesus, concerning the role of "rabbi":

Jesus never accepted this role. He did not quote other sages and rabbis as was the custom. He quoted God's Word and explained things in His own words from His unique perspective.
[/qutoe]
He then went on to say that we should reject all of Rabbinic scholarship merely on the basis that they do not adhere to Y'shua as Moshiach. (this can be found in the article: "Question Authority" in last month's Havurah - one of J4J's two main newsletters)
This statement not only shows an obvious lack of scholarship on Rosen's part, but his conclusions are to make an obvious division between Judaism and MJism (or christianity).

Beit Bethel, a well known Messianic congregation (part of the MJAA) has posted on the top of their website:
[quote]
To profess Jesus Christ while continuing to follow the Torah's laws of bondage (see Gal. 3 & 4), is an absurdity. The Christian faith does not look to Judaism, but Judaism looks to Christianity. Thus our Mission is evident, as Messianics we are to bring the Gospel to the Jews, releasing them from the bondage of Torah, as was the heart of Paul's mission."


Now just let me throw out a couple of quotes from the UMJC official theology statements (found on their website):

The question is not whether or not to share [Jesus] with Jewish people, but rather HOW to share the Gospel with Jewish people.


and...


Reform, Conservative or Orthodox Judaism, ...despite their many differences, share an active disbelief in our Messiah. Close identification with... any of these groups would be unbiblical."



I can provide literally hundreds of quotes just like this... all from the major defining leaders in the MJ movement.

Considering that it's basically Christianity with a flavor of Judaism, that's not what I want. If that's what satisfies another's belly, then so be it.

It's just not where I want to be.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Ruhama]

I really think the MJ movement is more diverse and individualistic than you allow, although having been to a number of kehilot I can agree with your assessment that many are "churches with a kippah." But many also honestly strive to identify with their Jewish identity as much as possible. One factor that I see greatly affecting that is the fact that much of the theology of the NT is going to be influenced by 2000 years of Gentile Christian interpretation. Because of the frequent refounding of messianic groups and various persecutions throughout history, as Talmid pointed out once before, it seems to me that every new congregation must face interpreting everything all over again.

"Pure" Judaism... well, there are many flavors of that as well.  You must realize that there are as many trappings and extras added in to rabbinic Judaism as any messianic or christian sect, just like the December 25th thing.  For my part, I tend to shun adopting any one group as "my own" I guess for that reason.  Not to say that you are wrong for choosing Orthodox Judaism - I'm just saying this is what I see.

[simchat_torah]

I really think the MJ movement is more diverse and individualistic than you allow....


That's why I said the MJ Movement is as diverse as Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch. You have a vast array of differences.

However, my generalizations do stand as the "typical" expression, or rather the "typical" theology of MJism.

I have been to over a dozen MJ congregations. Out of those 12 + only two did not sell items (books, tallit, etc) after services on Erev Shabbat (friday night). As well, only a few didn't go out to eat (pay money) for a resturant after Saturday morning services.

None the less, just examine the following explicitly stated mitzvot and ask yourself, how many are actually observed in MJism (let alone taught)?
*Laws of Niddah
*Teffilin
*Mezzuzot
*circumcision
*"do not shave the corners of your head"
*finally, how many have established a Beit Din? (did you know that out of the 613 mitzvot 35 are about establishing, governing, appointing etc a Beit Din?)


This is only naming a handful.

I'm not going to quibble over specific laws and/or how to physically fulfill them... but the general lack of Torah observance on a whole scale level is what bothers me. How would the prophets of old react?
What was their message? What would they say to a people who tossed Torah aside?
How would they react to a lawless people?

Yes, MJ's typically do hold to some of the mitzvot, but they hold to that which is either fun, easy, or are 'special' (so to speak). The Torah as a whole is somewhat disregarded. It's the same as christianity.

Why isn't there a Beit Din? Why don't the women/men observe the laws of Niddah? Why isn't any of this stuff even taught or mentioned???????

Well, I think you get my drift.



You must realize that there are as many trappings and extras added in to rabbinic Judaism as any messianic or christian sect...


You are correct...
However, no man or establishment is perfect. But they do have the foundation of Torah laid... a foundation of stone.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Talmid HaYarok]

I want to take this up with you ST, but in the spirit of this thread I don't want to start a debate. Maybe we could start an Akiba Vs. Yeshua thread.  :)

I would repeat again that J4J is not Messianic, but I would also include Yasha(net?) as a Messianic group. All these groups are specifically a western phenomenon where Messianic Judaism has become publically acceptable for a change in history.

In Israel and Lebanon there are very old Messianic congregations that preceed these groups by a hundred or more years.

While in Israel I used to have regular discussions with those who wished to convert me because I was Jewish. Among those where an Orthodox Rabbinic student I used to meet with every week. Since then with his urging I've always wanted to attend in person a Yeshiva. I hopefully might even get the chance to after I move this month.

 

[simchat_torah]

The oldest messianic congregation that I'm aware of is in Russia, started in 1882 I believe.

Anyway, those old congregations are very very rare... you could probably count them on your fingers (globally).

However, the majority of MJ congregations internationally belong to the UMJC or the MJAA. Both the MJAA and UMJC recognize J4J as a valid "messianic" expression. There is great discussion today going on in an attempt to define what MJ means. This new label will qualify/disqualify groups, and not to mention more than likely disqualify the 'heretical' Netzarim (viewed as 'heretical' by the MJAA and UMJC).

I personally do not belong to the Netzarim, but I respect them. They are the only messianic group to my knowledge that has created a Beit Din and uphold Torah. All three, the MJAA, UMJC, and J4J, do not teach Torah is the valid covenant to be upheld today.

As far as a Beit Din is concerned, Torah commands us to have one. Granted Y'shua rejected the Beit Din of his day, but that was due to their 'unrighteous acts'... and in the same token he established a new beit din, as seen in Acts 15.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Pray4Isrel]

Yesterday at 11:07 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #37 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=672372#post672372)

Shalom Mishpochah,

POD? I've been listening to them for about 8 + years? Eh, thier last album went mainstream, and I don't mean by how many albums they sold... but they abandoned their style and went holywood so to speak.

I also lived with Skillet for 6 months, and during that time I worked at a christian dance club/inner city ministry and met probably about 200 or so bands.... they stayed the night in our house after their performances, so I literally do mean 'met' the bands.

Anyway, that's all just fun facts ;-)

My grandparents on my mother's side left Poland during WWII and upon coming to the US found just as much antisemtism. So they converted to Christianity. My father's side is somewhat of a similar story but it goes back a few generations farther.

Both of my grandfathers became pastors. Needless to say I was brought up with a christian upbringing.

About 7 years ago I began studying things in christian doctrine and history that didn't add up (starting with christmas) as well I had a new found excitement in discovering my Jewish lineage.

Since then I have traveled quite far down the path. I have attended a Jewish synagouge for the past 2.5 years, and have taken multiple classes at a Yeshiva online.

Talmud HaYorak makes me very jealous (bad fleshly nature, down boy) because he may be going to Hebrew U. That is somewhere that I seriously contemplated going to. Unfortunately, HaShem had other plans for me as I've now been married very happily to a gorgeos Tzaddik woman.... Anastasia. She too has a similar story with her lineage.

After leaving christianity some years ago I attempted to go the 'messianic' route. However, what I discovered is that most messianic congregations are: church in a kippah
a little phrase I've coined and seems to have caught on. Anyway, most messy-anic congregations don't observe Torah, hold to varying forms of replacement theology, and primarily haven't given up the same pagan doctrines and practices of chrstiandom. There are a few that stand out from the crowd that differ from this norm, but it's very rare.

I've been attending a Conservative synagouge for quite some time, although my heart really lies within the Chassidic or Orthodox.... unfortunately, there's nothing in that realm anywhere near here. So you make do with what you have, nu?

I'll wait for some responses before boring you any more... he he he..

Shalom,
Yafet/Japheth.

p.s. Didn't someone here say they went to Urbana IL for a missions conference? I'm from Urbana, so if you see this, say hi!



Welcome to the MJ Forum, Simchat_Torah.

What a great testimony!  Thank you for opening up and sharing that with us.  We all look forward to your participation here with fellow Messianic bro's and sis's in Yeshua.

God Bless

[Pray4Isrel]

BTW, I made this thread an announcement so it stays at the top... this way we don't have to keep moving it up to the top when new members want to join in the fellowship.

[Pray4Isrel]

I hope everyone can see this thread now that it's an announcement - hopefully we won't forget to post here!

Hey, I see all of you here surfing this forum... if you all come in here we can fellowship!!!

[Pray4Isrel]

Talmid:
Here's one for ya! Ever been to Antonia's Fortress?

[Talmid HaYarok]

No, and I don't think I've heard of that one.

[Pray4Isrel]

HA! I have been places that you haven't been - I knew it!
P4I is one up on Talmid!
Naw, but anyway, it is one of my most favorite of places in the Old City... it is a site where (speculative as all the sites are) they have the streets of Jerusalem exposed dating back to the time of Yeshua and they believe it is the place where Jesus was beaten and mocked by the Romans and laughed at as they mockingly called Him the "King of the Jews". (BTW, of course the streets are lower than where the streets are now since they just kept building over everything. You probably know this, right? (From going through the Western Wall tunnels... did you do that?) So anyway they have this place and you see that Roman games that are carved into the street from when the Romans would gamble and such. It was one of my most favorite places to visit. I used to sing there "I love you Lord and I lift my voice to worship you, Oh my soul, Rejoice. Take joy my King in what you hear, may it be a sweet sweet sound in your ears." I sang this as I was imagining the Romans plucking Yeshua's beard and gambling over His garments. Very moving, indeed.  My King!!!

Anyway, that place is very dear to me.

Here's another one for you:
Ever been through Hezekiah's Tunnels?

[Talmid HaYarok]

Yeah, I've been to Hezekiah's tunnel. Quite the awe inspiring place, I actually lead a tour of some friends from Hebrew U. there once. Makes it easy to understand why David's "Mighty men" were Mighty Men. Of course, one has to wonder how many men failed and died first. The details that get left out....

I haven't really been in the tunnels, neither have I been onto the temple mount. Its enough for me to sit out and watch the western wall while eating Falafel (my favorite Falafel place is in the Jewish quarter near the wall there) and trying to imagine how large and incredible the temples must have been.

Hmmm, so have you been to the Tisch Family Biblical Zoo in Jerusalem?

[Pray4Isrel]

I have been to the Biblical Rescource Garden, Yes... is that the same one you are referring to?
Also, have you been inside the Dome of the Rock? The most horrific experience of my life actually!

[simchat_torah]

::grumbles to self::
- "bunch of showoffs"

grrrrrr :mad:

  

 

:D

[Talmid HaYarok]

Having not been on the temple mount it would be hard to go inside the Dome.  ;)  I don't think I'd want to anyways.

I'm talking about the Jerusalem Zoo, not the Gardens.  ;)  They have a bunch of animals from the Bible that mostly can't be found in Israel any more. They're also involved in a number of restoration projects to return Israel to what it was. Its pretty kewl.  ;)

So have you been to the Israel museum?

Have patience Simchat you'll get your day. Its even harder to have been there and not be able to go back. :(

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 08:46 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #54 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=678257#post678257)

::grumbles to self::
- "bunch of showoffs"

grrrrrr :mad:

  

 

:D



LOL!!!  :D

 :holy:  Me?  A show off?


:angel:

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 08:56 PM Talmid HaYarok said this in Post #55 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=678273#post678273)

Having not been on the temple mount it would be hard to go inside the Dome.  ;)  I don't think I'd want to anyways.

I'm talking about the Jerusalem Zoo, not the Gardens.  ;)  They have a bunch of animals from the Bible that mostly can't be found in Israel any more. They're also involved in a number of restoration projects to return Israel to what it was. Its pretty kewl.  ;)

So have you been to the Israel museum?

Have patience Simchat you'll get your day. Its even harder to have been there and not be able to go back. :(



Duh.  Sorry I didn't catch the part where you said you never went to the Temple Mount.  :sorry:

No I have not been to the zoo, sounds interesting though.

I did go to the Israel Museum though!  Very neat. 

Have you been to the Temple Institute?  That was awesome!

[Talmid HaYarok]

Been there, done that.  :) 

Did you go Israeli folk dancing while you were there? :D

[Pray4Isrel]

Not intentionally, no...
:) What I mean by that is I had taken about a years worth of Israeli dance lessons and when i went to Israel the first time my friend and I were taking a walk by the Sea of Galilee at our kibbutz and we saw a lot of elderly people dancing at night in a tent. So we went up to the tent to watch and before you know it she and I were joining in the festivities! LOL
Also saw a lot of Jewish weddings from one of the hotels we stayed at in Jerusalem - Ramat Rachel. Lots of dancing there also!

[Ruhama]

Yesterday at 03:26 PM Pray4Isrel said this in Post #51 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=677666#post677666)

HA! I have been places that you haven't been - I knew it!
P4I is one up on Talmid!



Actually... hehehe... Antonia Fortress doesn't exist, it's got a madrasa on top of it now....

http://cr.middlebury.edu/public/russian/bulgakov/public_html/antoniamap.html

(/me giggles and sneaks off muttering about showing off)

[Pray4Isrel]

* P4I covers her ears with her hands and refuses to hear about what happened to Antonia's Fortress

 :cry:

[Pray4Isrel]

Shabbat Shalom!

[Talmid HaYarok]

Just an FYI to everyone who has become used to my posting here.

Over the next two weeks I'm going to be scarce on these boards (in theory at least if I behave) because I'm preparing for a small 3 time zone move.

Don't be alarmed, I shall return.  ;)

[Ruhama]

P4I you are SO CUTE! :hug:

[Pray4Isrel]

And you are SO SWEET, Ruhama! :hug:

Talmid, I shall try not to be alarmed ;) ... we look forward to your return!

[Ruhama]

Ah, but he said "if he behaves." Let's get him to not behave! :holy:

[Pray4Isrel]

LOL :D

[Talmid HaYarok]

you're bad :P

[Pray4Isrel]

Hey we thought you were gonna be away for a couple of weeks! :wave:

[Talmid HaYarok]

This week I'm packing, next week I'm moving.

Any idea on how to find a good messianic congregation in a city you don't know?

[Pray4Isrel]

There is a member that knows of a link where you can locate the nearest Messianic Synagogue... I wish I could remember who...

[Talmid HaYarok]

I did searches with the UMJC and YashaNet, and I also sent an email to the MJAA. Anything else you could come up with would be helpful and appreciated too. So far everything is on the outskirts of the city and hard for me to get to since I don't/won't own a car.

[Ruhama]

While we're on this topic... :)
Does anybody know of any kehilot around the Boston area? I know of one or two, but none really in the city center that I can get to.

[Talmid HaYarok]

I like your new Avatar, Radical Edward.

[Ruhama]

Arigato! :D

[Pray4Isrel]

Wha... ?
;)

[Ruhama]

my avatar is of a character named Edward from a Japanese cartoon. I told him thank you in Japanese. :)

[Susan]

What's your favorite anime?

(I hope I'm not posting this in the wrong thread)

[Ruhama]

Doesn't my avatar say it all? :D

lol... yeah, this probably is the wrong thread for it, but Cowboy Bebop, Trigun and Princess Mononoke would top the list. :)

[Pray4Isrel]

* P4I has no idea what all this means :sorry:

[simchat_torah]

It means you aren't cool.... ;-) just kidding.

I prefer the anime movies personally.

[Susan]

Yesterday at 09:41 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #81 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=709823#post709823)

It means you aren't cool.... ;-) just kidding.

I prefer the anime movies personally.




LOL, hehehe. . .good one ~.^

Did you hear that 3 of the Miyazaki movies (Kiki's Delivery Service, Castle in the Sky, and Spirited Away) are being released on April 15? So. . .if you like anime and have any money left after the government takes their share, you may be interested. . .~.^ I don't have to pay taxes yet, so I will have enough money for one. . .if I can get it. . .:)

Anyway, as this is really the wrong thread for this discussion, I'm bowing out now.

[Susan]

OOPS, I'm deeply sorry :bow: :bow: I believed that you were able to post there until I read your posts and profile. I wish I could open up a club in a more open zone. :sorry:

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 12:41 AM simchat_torah said this in Post #81 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=709823#post709823)

It means you aren't cool.... ;-) just kidding.

I prefer the anime movies personally.



 :cry:

[Susan]

Don't worry, you're cool P4I. :hug: :cool:

[Talmid HaYarok]

Okay, getting settled here in my new place of residence. Did you all miss me?

Studio Ghibli rocks. While speaking of anime and somebody's Final Fantasy Avatar. The game Final Fantasy VII has some very interesting connections with Kabbalah.

[Ruhama]

Happy move! :clap:

[Susan]

There is a rumor that Hironobu Sakaguchi, the director and main author, was involved with Kabbalism or with Aum Shinri Kyo at the time. In interviews, he's pretty evasive on what his faith was. I say that points to his faith being Aum at the time, because while being a Kabbalist is kind of trendy in Japan, being Aum was/is a social death sentence because of the Aum/Aleph's crimes in the past (1989-1995, I'll dig some links up for you if you really want to know) and if he revealed himself as a member or former member of that cult, it would mean the end of his career.

[Susan]

Oh, by the way, my av is Zidane from FFIX. It really ruined it having to shrink it to a size that would be accepted here-it was almost a poster in its original form.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Haven't played anything after FF8. They're the only playstation games to intrique me though due to the depth of their stories.

[Susan]

You have absolutely got to play FFIX sometime ~.^

I really liked 8 too, much more than 7 actually, because the characters were better, the writing was much better, and it was a little less "pushy" about religious themes.

[MissytheButterfly]

Awww.. wish I knew about some of these games so I could talk too.. My husband and I have the PlayStation 2 but we've been stuck on continuously playing The Sims.

And would you believe my husband has another wife, 2 kids, and a whole other life on PlayStation2 in the Sims Game at my encouragement no less! And I had the nerve to get mad at him because he wasn't playing enough with his children from his second wife! LOL!

Missy

[Susan]

LOL! :D

I would say that if you ever spend your money on any of the FF games, 8 and 9 are the best of the later ones so far. Some people are partial to 7 (why I cannot fathom) If you're an orthodox Messianic, 7 might be very offensive to you.

[Pray4Isrel]

Hey all, it's that time again, so, "Shabbat Shalom"!

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 07:50 AM MissytheButterfly said this in Post #92 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=712801#post712801)

Awww.. wish I knew about some of these games so I could talk too.. My husband and I have the PlayStation 2 but we've been stuck on continuously playing The Sims.

And would you believe my husband has another wife, 2 kids, and a whole other life on PlayStation2 in the Sims Game at my encouragement no less! And I had the nerve to get mad at him because he wasn't playing enough with his children from his second wife! LOL!

Missy


Missy, I used to play The Sims Online for hours!  It was so fun... but I played it too much so I had to give it up LOL :D

[simchat_torah]

I know this isn't exactly the "prayer request" section, but none the less, it's easier for me to say things in this section than others...

I have just lost my job today because of recent cut backs in the IT industry.

My wife and I are now going to be behind on a number of bills, and I would just ask for your prayers as I search for a new position.

lol, and any donations would be welcome... just kidding.

But seriously, I would appreciate your prayers.
thank you,
Yafet.

[MissytheButterfly]

Yesterday at 08:04 PM Pray4Isrel said this in Post #95 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=713544#post713544)


Missy, I used to play The Sims Online for hours!  It was so fun... but I played it too much so I had to give it up LOL :D




LOL! We don't have the Sims Online.. we have it for the PlayStation2 but my husband and I have played it literally from 6pm until 10am the next day.. no joking. The first few weeks we had it we were totally obsessed! Glad we aren't THAT obsessed with it anymore ..but my husband sure can play it for a long time on the weekends when he's off from work.. like all day. UGH! I can't anymore..

Missy

[MissytheButterfly]

Yesterday at 12:54 PM Susan said this in Post #93 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=712803#post712803)

LOL! :D

I would say that if you ever spend your money on any of the FF games, 8 and 9 are the best of the later ones so far. Some people are partial to 7 (why I cannot fathom) If you're an orthodox Messianic, 7 might be very offensive to you.



Hmmm, maybe I will get them for my husband. He really seemed to enjoy the Final Fantasy movie that was on tv. He's watched it like 5 times.

Thanks for the tip about #7..I am sure interested what's on it now.. LOL!  :D

Missy


 

[Susan]

I'll let you know why I say it's probably offensive to orthodox Messianics, just so you aren't too surprised:

FF7 has several (at least 10 separate, and that's when you leave the worst offending characters, Barret and Cid, out of your traveling party whenever possible-the game forces you to use them on occasion >_< ) gross blasphemies of God's name. By that I mean it was not just in a situation that is really to the point of driving to it, but just for *silly* things too often. It even disgusted me, and it was quite sad since otherwise it was a wonderful game, one I want to play again if that part wasn't there.

FF8 and FF9 were much better in that regard:

FF8 had only one incident of God's name being used in that way, it wasn't gratuitious, it wasn't combined with another curse like in 7, and was somewhat proportionate to the situation (the love of the main character's life was close to death, and it looks as if it was impossible to save her-I won't reveal any more since that would be a major plot spoiler)

As far as I know so far FF9 has no misuses of God's name yet (I've played to disc 3 out of 4 so far, and haven't seen any)

There are other factors, and other things, but this is just my review on one point, the point most relevant to the audience here.

[Susan]

Hmm. . .I wonder what that movie's like. I really don't want to waste my money, and I've heard the plot stinks. . .but the CG graphics are interesting.

[MissytheButterfly]

Oh okay. I see.. well thanks for the information. I still would like to try 8 and 9 though so thanks for the tip.

Missy

[Susan]

8 is really good (although a LOT of people around anime and RPGs slam it for being "sappy," it's a cool story nonetheless)

9 is good in its own way. Great storyline and plot, sort of a return to the older days when it was less a sci-fi series, and a return to more anime-like characters rather than the "human" look that 8 and 10 lean toward. Basically it was made as a sop to the fans who'd been around since the early days (II/4 and III/6) and were complaining about the cyberpunk 7 and the sci-fi leaning 8.

Also pick up Final Fantasy Anthology. The graphics are really old (SNES style) but those were some of the earlier games in the series. FF6 (on the Anthology discs) was one of the pioneering games and set the tone for the series-it was originally released in the US as FFIII for the SNES way back when.

[MissytheButterfly]

Cool, I will check them out.. and thanks for all the great info.

Missy

[Susan]

-^.^- you're welcome.

[Pray4Isrel]

14th March 2003 at 05:22 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #96 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=713787#post713787)

I know this isn't exactly the "prayer request" section, but none the less, it's easier for me to say things in this section than others...

I have just lost my job today because of recent cut backs in the IT industry.

My wife and I are now going to be behind on a number of bills, and I would just ask for your prayers as I search for a new position.

lol, and any donations would be welcome... just kidding.

But seriously, I would appreciate your prayers.
thank you,
Yafet.



Simchat, that is what this fellowship is for.&nbsp; I will certainly pray for you and your wife.&nbsp; :pray:

&nbsp; Stand Strong and know that God will Provide.

[Talmid HaYarok]

FYI, I've also lost my job and been looking for the last year.

I just moved from coast to coast to hopefully much better job prospects. So lets pray for each other.&nbsp;&nbsp; :)

Take care Yafet

[Ruhama]

14th March 2003 at 05:22 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #96 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=713787#post713787)

I know this isn't exactly the "prayer request" section, but none the less, it's easier for me to say things in this section than others...

I have just lost my job today because of recent cut backs in the IT industry.

My wife and I are now going to be behind on a number of bills, and I would just ask for your prayers as I search for a new position.

lol, and any donations would be welcome... just kidding.

But seriously, I would appreciate your prayers.
thank you,
Yafet.



Ack!&nbsp; How did I miss this post????&nbsp; Simchat, I'm sorry it seemed if we all ignored you in our anime discussion, I honestly didn't even see this.&nbsp; My heart goes out to you.
May God turn this struggle into blessing.

Ruhama

[MissytheButterfly]

Oh Sim! I am really sorry. I will definitely keep you and your wife in my prayers. Just remember that God doesn't forsake those that love him and I know you love him from your spirit on the boards. So if it brings any comfort, God will make a way for you and your wife.

I'll be praying and please keep us updated. Bless you.
Missy

[Pray4Isrel]

Simchat, any updates? How about you, Talmid?
We are praying!

[Ruhama]

Hiya, just an fyi I'm going on vacation for three weeks so you probably won't see me around. :)&nbsp; Bye-O!

[Pray4Isrel]

I hope you enjoy the vacation, Ruhama! Can I go too? LOL! God Bless and stay safe! :)

[Susan]

Yeah, stay safe. . .I'll miss you! :wave: ;;^.^;;

[Talmid HaYarok]

Well the job apps aren't going as fast as I should be making myself do them.

However, on another note I applied for and was made a mod of the Messianic forum here. It probably won't mean much for a while as I'll take my time "learning the ropes". But I hope to help make this forum grow and become a friendly place for Messianics to fellowship together.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Shabat Shalom

[Pray4Isrel]

I wish everyone peace on the Sabbath.

[Aethelsige]

&nbsp;:holy: yes Pray4Isrel Paul Wilbur is good and so is Steve McConnell.

[Pray4Isrel]

Yesterday at 09:18 PM Aethelsige said this in Post #116 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=747410#post747410)

&nbsp;:holy: yes Pray4Isrel Paul Wilbur is good and so is Steve McConnell.



And Paul Wilbur is even better live!

He will be coming to our Synagogue in October again - can't wait!&nbsp; :)

[Aethelsige]

And what synagogue would that be Pray4Isrel?

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 01:33 PM Aethelsige said this in Post #118 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=748607#post748607)

And what synagogue would that be Pray4Isrel?



The Messianic Synagogue that I attend is called Shoresh David.&nbsp; You can check it out on the web:

www.shoreshdavidtampa.org (http://www.shoreshdavidtampa.org)


&nbsp;

[Aethelsige]

oh where is Shoresh David?

[Aethelsige]

ok never mind i found it, your north of me

[Pray4Isrel]

Tampa, FL (Check out that website) ;)

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 08:36 PM Aethelsige said this in Post #121 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=749557#post749557)

ok never mind i found it, your north of me



Oh Ok... LOL :D

Are you in Florida also?

[Aethelsige]

:wave:&nbsp; Yes i am just to your south. I attend a messianic synagogue in Bradenton, called Ohr Yeshua. So shalom up there. :pray:

[Pray4Isrel]

Wow! You are not far at all!
Shalom to you too!!! :wave:

[Aethelsige]

We had a member of your congregation here yesterday. He came to speak of Value Based Financial planning.

[MissytheButterfly]

Hey that's cool.. Pray4Isrel you have someone close to you that's a member of CF.. pretty neat you two meeting and being so close.. rockin'

Missy

[Aethelsige]

Shalom MissytheButterfly

[Pray4Isrel]

MissyTheButterfly: Yeah it totally ROCKS! LOL :D

Aethelsige: That's so cool! Do you remember the man's name? Was it Stu Fabricant? If it was I will just keel over because I have known him for years! He's like the dad of our congregation - he is a cool guy!

[Aethelsige]

yes, Stuart Fabricant. He gave a powerpoint display. It was an hour and a half.

[Pray4Isrel]

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, what are the chances of chatting with someone in a Forum that actually knows someone from the Messianic Synagogue I attend!
That's incredible!

[Aethelsige]

ok Good, maybe there will be more contact between the 2 synagogues.

[Pray4Isrel]

Yes, that would be very awesome!

[Aethelsige]

When is Paul Wilbur coming?

[Pray4Isrel]

I have to research the exact date but I believe it is in September or October... I will find out for sure as soon as they announce it in the bulletin. You gotta come see him - have you ever seen him live before?

[Talmid HaYarok]

I'm ba-ack.

Posting blitz time.&nbsp; :D

[Aethelsige]

I have his CD. Jerusalem Arise. :wave:

[Pray4Isrel]

Well get all of his CD's they're great! ;)

[Talmid HaYarok]

Well I just finally made a big push of progress with things this week. Both in my personal life with jobs, getting adjusted to my new area and on CF today with finally starting to get caught up.

There is still a lot more for me to get caught up on I know, but hopefully I can do it after the Sabbath.

HaAnashim Kol HaOlam, Shabbat Shalom

Ani, Talmid HaYarok

[Pray4Isrel]

Glad to hear you are caught up! I am just now starting to get unbearably busy so it's a perfect switcheroo here :)

Our Messianic Passover Seder is tomorrow (Saturday) so please pray for us, everyone! :eek: 80 people will be coming.

Well I can't sleep and it's after midnight and I have to start preparing at 8:00AM. :sleep:

Shabbat Shalom

[Aethelsige]

wow Pray4Isrel is on here alot. What are you doing up there?

[Pray4Isrel]

Muwahahahahahahahaha! (evil laugh)
Why, I am keeping my eye on all of you! :D

Just kiddin' - I really do have a life outside of CF... I think... :sorry:

[Aethelsige]

There is life outside chatting?, :confused: Have you ever been out there? I hear it's scarry out there and you have to work! really! :(&nbsp; They make you pay taxes out there. :sigh:

[Talmid HaYarok]

Life has really enjoyed hitting me when I get down these last few years.

Anyways, have to find a new place to live right now on top of needing to find a job and stuff. Having roommate troubles and we're each going our seperate ways, but I don't know where that is. Its all really getting me down right now.&nbsp; :(

[Susan]

:hug: Hope everything works out for you, Talmid. :pray:ing.

[Pray4Isrel]

13th April 2003 at 07:54 PM Aethelsige said this in Post #143 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=782446#post782446)

There is life outside chatting?, :confused: Have you ever been out there? I hear it's scarry out there and you have to work! really! :(&nbsp; They make you pay taxes out there. :sigh:



TAXES?&nbsp; Oh no,&nbsp;now I am never gonna step foot into the real world! ;)&nbsp; :eek:

[Aethelsige]

ohhh this is really a sign Pray4Isrel is not online. Is this one of the signs of the end times?

[Pray4Isrel]

I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack! :cool:

[Aethelsige]

Oh OH Pray4Isrel is back!

[Talmid HaYarok]

Talmid HaYarok will be back too.&nbsp;

&nbsp;:D

I missed all of you.

[Ruhama]

Well, hi folks and welcome back :)

Did we all make it?
* Ruhama does head count

[SonWorshipper]

Come let us go up, to the mountain of the Lord to the House of the God of Jacob!:clap:

[SonWorshipper]

Ah HA! I found her! Hi Ruhama! :wave: I reversed my thread so I forgot I can go to the first page to read what was written last! Not as many pages to turn, COOL!

[iitb]

Did anyone else have trouble remembering their password? I never expected to log in again!

[ServingHim]

Did anyone else have trouble remembering their password? I never expected to log in again!

I had to reregister

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom to all once again Shalom,

I am finally back on. This is who used to be ServantOfChrist.

I picked the new name because I feel it fits in Messianic Judaism more so since I'm leaning toward that now.
Shalom once again,
Tag

[Ruhama]

Welcome back Tag! :)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Toda Ruhama. :)

Hey Pray4Isrel. Your PMs are full and I can't PM you :(

That :( face looks so funny LOL

Shalom,

Tag

[3a144,000]

Shalom group. I am new to Internet Forums so please forgive my ignorance if I show poor manners. What do you talk about in this thread? There is no doubt in my mind that our Blessed Redeemer is returning very soon. I want to fellowship with like believers. I understand His Word to say that we must be ready for Him. While this is a personal thing I beleive we are here to help each other in that process. There is much in His Word that I have found is overlook, perverted and/or denied by most. I long to have meaningful dialog with others who truly are seeking to know Him, and His will for us, that enjoy deep study as I do. Am I at the right place? Are these the type of subject matter you discuss here? When I study the character of Yahushua I don't find any trival behavior or conversation. Time is so short I don't believe we should waste any of what is left. This does not mean that life should be downcast and forboding. Is simply means as it says in Rev. 14:7-12 that we need to take Elohim serious, come out of false doctrine and show our allegence to Him through our willing obedience to His Word. Do others on this thread feel the same?

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom and Shalom 3a144,000,

Welcome to the Forum. I reckon you will see after you read much of what many have posted here as to where they stand in the Light of YHWH.

I to want to learn the Truth and nothing but the Truth about YHWH.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

Shalom everyone! I missed everone for those couple of days :) They were the longest days of my life ;)

I am glad we are all back and I welcome those of you who are new!

[Aethelsige]

Now we have another Shabbat upcoming, this will be a good ending, if we have a minion.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Back sorta. Its been a hard week for me, the loss of CF being part of that.

After Sabbath though I should be back with a bang and get back to work on restoring the FAQ and FAD. I'll try and get some interesting discussion going to liven it up again as well. ;)

[Pray4Isrel]

Shabbat Shalom, my friends :wave:

[ServingHim]

Shabbat Shalom, my friends :wave:

Shabbat Shalom!!!! :)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shabbat Shalom to you all. I am not starting off too well here.

Tag

[Talmid HaYarok]

Sigh, so much to catch up on here. I know how it goes Shamash. I've just finished moving twice this spring... still looking for a job. Places take forever not getting back to me and the opportunities are beginning to dry up it seems.

A lot more I want to take my time replying to here. I'll be back tonight.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Has anyone seen what I have found in one of my readings on a Messianic website:
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=812841&postcount=1
I posted it in the News section since it involves more then just Jews.

Tag

[Talmid HaYarok]

Nice post Tag. Which reminds me, I should restart the "other threads of interest on CF to Messianics" thread.

Mod note: Gonna unsticky this thread, I think activity will keep it up and we'll need room for other stuck threads.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I was thinking of a thread that is for links to threads within this forum like an index which would be a sticky thread named "Index of Messianic Judaism" which anyone can post additions in it but then the mods would then add it to the first few posts and then delete the post of the one making the suggestion that way the thread won't get so long you won't be able to find things ;)
For I see so many topics spread throughout it is hard to see if when I am starting a thread if someone else already started one. I would say even if someone started a thread on a subject that it doesn't mean someone else can't start a similar one but going at the subject in a different way. But both would be listed under the same Subject heading.
It will take a little time and effort to put an index together.
What do you all think :D

Tag

I forgot. We could have those CF threads of interest in the Index as well ;)

[Talmid HaYarok]

More work that something I want to maintain. :p I've obviously got my hands full with the FAQ and FAD again.

I know there are some people that are put off posting a subject in a thread 10+ pages long too. If its not just the most basic questions asked over and over then its probably just as well to start an old thread if you can't find an old one appropriate.

We'll see what the others say though. :)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I am going to be gone for the next couple days. I am going to see if I can spend the night at my aunt and uncles who live about 34 miles south of here. The reason is to try to live peacefully with someone I am not liking very much since she moved in the house a litte over a month ago.
The note she had her boyfriend give me I posted here:http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=818419&postcount=13

So Shalom to all,

Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

I hope everyone's weeks were blessed! :hug:

[Ruhama]

Tag - I'd probably be willing to throw in some work on that project but I am sort of clueless and I don't quite understand what you're describing.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Tag - I'd probably be willing to throw in some work on that project but I am sort of clueless and I don't quite understand what you're describing.

Shalom Ruhama,

Open a book that has an index ;)

Now you know, I hope :)

When someone comes into the ONE forum we have for Messianic Judaism it is like opening a book up that doesn't have any order in it and things are hard to find. Well if we make up a subject names for the index we would file threads under each subject.

We can start with the most pertainent ones first. I will of course be offline by the end of the month, but hope to be back on as soon as possible so if everyone that wants to stay in contact with me would send me an email and tell me you nick here and the fact that you are in CF in the email then I will know where I need to file the email ;) I do have an index for my emails, don't you ;)

Tag

[Ruhama]

so... you want a mod to make a thread that links to all the topics we've discussed, sort of like

A. holidays
discussion A
discussion B

B. dancing
discussion A
discussion B ?

[Ruhama]

I think we could do that with a few important topics that stayed on topic, though I don't know how well that would work for most threads that went off on many tangental directions.

[Pray4Isrel]

Hmmmm, that seems workable.
Not a bad idea.

[Ruhama]

well then, I'd be willing to maintain it but I'll need help in getting everything put in the proper place and as I don't usually have time to read every post I'll have to rely on people's PMing me with where they think it should go, if I'm the one doing it. But yeah, I'd be cool with it.

[Pray4Isrel]

Well if you are volunteering, by all means you've got the job - congratulations! ;)
I suppose we would start a whole new thread, an index of sorts like Tag mentioned.
Then all of us can be sure to help you out by giving you thread links to index.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom,

We could make a post in the index thread about what can be added and then the post deleted upon addition of the thread by the Mod.
Also if any threads that are added are later found out to be in the wrong category then the person would post in the index thread the item in question and then it can be checked out and then action taken or not and then delete the action post in the index thread.
Action post = a post to inform the index mod in the Index thread of :
1: a possible thread addition to the index thread
2: a possible category addition plus the thread that would be added
3: a possible correction to a thread that is posted in the index thread(might be in the wrong category)
4: a possible correction to the name of a category(maybe a better category name)
The ideas above can be changed or added to of course when needed.
I was thinking that instead of PM'ing the mod we could just post in the Index thread and then the Mod can take make a note in that post we made as to the action taken as described below:
An Action post in the index thread will be taken care of as soon as can be AND it will be edited to include what action was taken AND then after a week or how ever long is decided it will be deleted from the index thread. OR we can just keep the action post for future reference but make sure the FIRST FEW POSTS are open for the INDEX :)
For those that are adding Action posts in the Index thread need to remember that the Index Mod can't read every thread we are asking to be added. So we must try to be specific as to the Category we think the Thread should be added to. Also if there is no category in the Index thread then we should provide a category name since we have read the thread ;) so as to keep the work of the Index Mod to a minimum. And if found out later that the thread should be in a differnet category then someone needs to inform the Index Mod of it by posting an Action post in the Index thread and explain why in the Action post. And also if a name of a category could have a better name then post an expanation in an Action post in the Index thread.

What do you all think of the ideas above? You can always add to or change it to be better understanding of course :)

Shalom,
Tag

[Ruhama]

Ok.

What are some categories you'd like to see things filed under?

Shabbat shalom everyone. :)
And happy 4th to the Americans.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I would ask everyone else that will be here. I don't know when I will have the internet next. I will be off-line by the end of this month or sooner. I actually hope sooner which means I will have found a place and hopefully a job.

Shabbat Shalom,
Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Ok.

What are some categories you'd like to see things filed under?

Shabbat shalom everyone. :)
And happy 4th to the Americans.
+Torah(every thread that pertains to Torah under a category listed below, otherwise under here if it doesn't fit)
+-1st commandment
+-2nd commandment
+-3rd commandment
+-4th commandment
+-5th commandment
+-6th commandment
+-7th commandment
+-8th commandment
+-9th commandment
+-10th commandment

The above to me covers everything ;) Of course Yeshua's teachings that pertain to the above would also go under the category that the thread that talks about.

Oh yeah, can't forget:
+Prophets
Of course as Yeshua said the Two Commandments he gave fulfill all the above, so we need to show how they do. In my opinion by doing as Yeshua did we will fulfill the Two Commandments by observing the Torah and the Prophets :)
+Writings
If someone can think of another name for the rest of the Tanakh then please recomment it.
+B'rit Khadashah(anything that isn't filed under one of the categories above.

+Fellowship
+Prayer
+News
+What is...
+-Messianic Judaism
+--Gentile within,
+--etc.
+etc.

The "+" sign signifies a main category
The "+-" sign signifies a sub category to the one above it
The "+--" sign is a sub of a sub category to the one above it

Well I need to get to bed now. Of course all the above are just a few of the ideas and therefore can be changed as you see fit so as to make the Messianic Judaism forum easier to search without doing a search per se.

Shalom,
Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

Wanted to say Shalom to everyone...
Having a rough day. :sigh:
It's like there are days when you can just feel the Enemy attacking you at all sides. But that's because something awesome must be in store! I am preparing for a missions trip so I think that's why all of this stuff gets piled on.
OK, I am done sitting on the Psychiatrist's couch ;)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Wanted to say Shalom to everyone...
Having a rough day. :sigh:
It's like there are days when you can just feel the Enemy attacking you at all sides. But that's because something awesome must be in store! I am preparing for a missions trip so I think that's why all of this stuff gets piled on.
OK, I am done sitting on the Psychiatrist's couch ;)

Shalom Pray4Isrel,

I sympathize with you for I have been getting attacked daily myself. If you haven't read the latest here it is: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=43814

Great news is my youngest sister is out of jail and off probation, well she thinks she is. I will find out later if she is from her that is. She has been through allot more then I have since she lost her kids to the State of Oregon for good this year. This has been heavy on my heart as well since I am the eldest in the family. I don't really have anyone here to share with except the new assembly I joined a little over a month ago: http://www.shalom-crmi.org/FOM/index.html Which I have questions about, but have yet to put them together in terms of some links they have on some of their other websites. They do say they are Messianic but I do see somethings in some Messianics that just don't make sense according to scripture. Not just the assembly I am part of right now but others as well. One main issue that comes to mind is the Trinity doctrine which some Messianic assemblies hold to. That has been heavy on my heart as well. But I feel my life falling apart the more I search and read. I feel Hasatan is really laying it on me because of these questions that come to my heart about what others are teaching or hold to. Of course we must test what Spirits are in those who teach or even share beliefs so that we aren't lead astray. Well I have been in the past and I will tell you I won't be any more, and I am sick of lies and this world is full of them. As I trudge down the straight and narrow to find the Truth I do stumble since I am not exactly sure of those who teach and/or share. The only one we can trust is YHWH and the Faith that Yeshuah has shared with those before us and hopefully we have the Ruach.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom everyone,

I just signed up with BCTI today to update my computer knowledge so I can acquire employment in computers like I have wanted to for a long time. Since I lost my last job which was a dream job since I first took computer courses in college over 10 years ago, I have needed to update my computer knowledge and of course certification does help greatly in acquiring employment :)

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

I pray that you will find some opportunities, Shamash of Yeshua!

Shabbat Shalom Everyone! :wave:

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Todah Pray4Isrel.

Shabbat Shalom Everyone!!! :wave:

Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shalom Ruhama,

The "Thread Topics Index" is looking good ;)

Shabbat Shalom,

Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I was wondering if we have a thread to introduce ourselves who are Messianic Judaism Believers?
If not then I reckon we need to start one. Maybe call it "Before you post in this Forum - Please Read" and in the first post show the basic rule that you need to be a Messianic Judaism Believer, and to introduce yourself if you are by clicking on the Thread "Messianic Judaism Introductions" that would be supplied in that first post. That way they can read the rules if they aren't familiar with the rules. Which I don't think many people read rules. Maybe change the name of the "New Messianic Judaism Forum Rules" thread to the name "Before you post in this Forum - Please Read" as I said above. Of course if Erwin don't mind. Of course the content of the thread Erwin posted would be in the New thread with the addition of Click on the "Messianic Judaism Introduction" Thread link.

Tag

[Talmid HaYarok]

Why not this thread?

Hello, my name is Talmid HaYarok and I'm a Messianic Jew. I'm from the Seattle area more than anywhere else and first started attending a Messianic congregation at Beth David American in Seattle.

[Ruhama]

*giggle* Hello, my name is Ruhama and I've been dry for -
oh wait...

Nah in all seriousness, I guess I'll just say I'm known for messianic leanings but I'm more of what you'd call a ger. Don't keep kosher but will admit to going slowly veggie.

btw thanks Tag :)
I'm actually enjoying this little index project of yours. :) Got the first page of this forum indexed now.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

The reason I was saying maybe we should have an Introduction thread linked from the rules page with the Name of the rules for Messianic Judaism Forum with a name "Before you post in this Forum - Please Read" is so that anyone coming directly to the Messianic Forum can see that there is a Thread that they should read first before posting in this Forum and then introduce themselves if they are Messianic as well. So we can see who are Messianic who are posting here. I have noticed that there are people that aren't Messianic posting as if they can here making comments that don't fall inline with Messianic Judaism Beliefs. Which in my opinion don't want Messianic Judaism mis-represented by those who don't follow the Beliefs.
In my opinion someone is more inclined to read a Thread that states "Before you post in this Forum - Please Read" rather then "New rules for Messianic Judaism Forum"

Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

*giggle* Hello, my name is Ruhama and I've been dry for -
oh wait...

Nah in all seriousness, I guess I'll just say I'm known for messianic leanings but I'm more of what you'd call a ger. Don't keep kosher but will admit to going slowly veggie.

btw thanks Tag :)
I'm actually enjoying this little index project of yours. :) Got the first page of this forum indexed now.
From the studying I have done on Messianic Judaism you don't need to be a veggie to be Kosher ;) which I am doing the best I can to. You are very welcome about the Index :) I see you put a PIN in it to keep it on top.

I have been Messianic since about two months ago after doing allot of reading and studying for about two months prior. I have done some serious studies for three years in a row about 13 years ago but that was from a Christian perspective. But fell away for about 10 years until almost four months ago when my life basically went to crud since last Sept. Seeing I am in the dumps basically and having to find a new place to live by the end of this month really has had me doing some serious soul searching as some would say. I have lived in Tacoma, Washington since 1996.
I finally got my unemployment going again this month and got it extend through the new TEUC program since my benefits ran out this week. And will last about upto 20 more weeks. I do hope to find a job soon before the end of the month otherwise I feel I won't be able to get a place to live since in my opinion they would want me to have a job to move in, who ever is renting that is.
I would rather live with someone then alone, which is how I have lived since 1991, except for about 6 months when I first moved to Tacoma.
And now I would rather live with someone that are aligned with Messianic Judaism. I am getting to the point that if I can find anyone that would be a blessing in taking me in I would move almost anywhere. I am saving as much of the unemployment I am getting so I can rent a place or at the least a Storage for several months if I don't have a job and can't find a place to live.
This is the hardest time I have had, except when I was first in Seattle back in the 80s living homeless for a few months.
I see a reason for this all happening. I had to be brought down to this to really seek and find the Truth which I feel I have.

Tag

[SonWorshipper]

I thought I started a introduction thread awhile back? :scratch:

Hmm....... ( goes off to look for it, perhaps it was wiped out in the flood.............err, crash.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Since we have an Index here, I think we can have a prayer thread as well now ;) for Messianic Judaism. Just a thought to add more threads then we already have :idea: :D
Well I need to be off to bed it is late and need to get up early.
I really need continued prayer support brothers and sisters. I have only 16 more days left till I HAVE to MOVE and the person that said he would fix my truck hasn't even picked it up :( Also still don't have a job. And I was starting BCTI, but when the person at Unemployment office said that my unemployment would be stopped, I had second thoughts on BCTI after also talking to a Vetern that works for Work Source. So I cancelled my enrollment. It would have costed me $10,500 in loans. Granted some of it is low interest from the government, but BCTI's is 19% and it starts collecting interest right off the bat, where as the government one doesn't. So I don't want 20% added by the time I am done with studies on Ancient computers anyway. :( Glad I cancelled.
It is hard to find a place to move to with no job, which is what I am finding out. I do have 13 weeks of unemployment that I can collect as long as I have 4 contacts a week. Which is getting harder every week considering no vehicle which many jobs even when they are stationary require wheels.

Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

Shabbat Shalom Everyone! :wave:

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Shabbat Shalom :wave:

[SonWorshipper]

Hey guys we now have our own Jewish Debate section. We will be hammering out the rules over the next few days so be patient, but look for some good debate coming soon! :)

[Talmid HaYarok]

Whoa, how did you get so many blessings Sonworshipper?

I've been busy hammering out staff stuff and less active in the MJ forum. Also more active over in the history forum I moderate these days.

We've got the new Jewish debate forum going and I'm hoping you can all get some use, enjoyment, and blessing out of it.

[SonWorshipper]

I got a fish under my name ;) but a good majority came from awhile back in the Games room, I won them! :)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

What about mine :( I won a few as well. ;)
Where oh where is that game room so I can be first on all before anyone else ;)

Tag

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I have been getting so depressed as I see the end of the month coming up in a week and a day. :cry:

Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

Shabbat Shalom, Everyone! :wave:

[SonWorshipper]

Would all my brothers and sisters here cover me with strong prayer over the next 24 hours, please. As you know I will be going through Mikvat tomorrow after services, and my husband is also. I thought that this would be an excellent time to also enter into a covenant relationship with my congregation and we will also be becoming members at the same time.

Since this decision HaSatan has been attacking me from all sides this whole week, ( some of you know a small portion of this):( very strongly and I almost succumbed to the intense pressure and called it off. I and my husband have just spent the last 4 hours with our head Shamash (deacon) in counseling and lots of prayer over this, but since the time hasn't arrived just yet, I feel that HaSatan will still try his best.

We will be driving up to the Pocono's for this so please cover us at home and especially around 2-3PM EST tomorrow.

:bow:May the L-rds will be done!

Shabbat Shalom!:clap:

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

:pray:

Shabbat Shalom,
Tag

[Pray4Isrel]

Would all my brothers and sisters here cover me with strong prayer over the next 24 hours, please. As you know I will be going through Mikvat tomorrow after services, and my husband is also. I thought that this would be an excellent time to also enter into a covenant relationship with my congregation and we will also be becoming members at the same time.

Since this decision HaSatan has been attacking me from all sides this whole week, ( some of you know a small portion of this):( very strongly and I almost succumbed to the intense pressure and called it off. I and my husband have just spent the last 4 hours with our head Shamash (deacon) in counseling and lots of prayer over this, but since the time hasn't arrived just yet, I feel that HaSatan will still try his best.

We will be driving up to the Pocono's for this so please cover us at home and especially around 2-3PM EST tomorrow.

:bow:May the L-rds will be done!

Shabbat Shalom!:clap:

You know I have you covered in prayer...
The Enemy attacks before awesome breakthroughs occur.

[SonWorshipper]

Bless you :hug:

[Pray4Isrel]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=48494

If anyone is interested in helping, please stop by the thread above and make your replies!

[Sabian]

That was cool I just got tipped 50 bucks!!!
Guy knocked on my door and ask to use our Boat ramp to pull his boat out.
I told him yea I'll help you out.
They had been lost 4 hours in the ocean still 4 miles off.
So they got a cab ,got their truck , then got their boat and gave me 50$.
For 30 min's.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Where do you live Sabian, I want to move in ;)
I love swimming and boating and snorkeling. Would like to learn scuba diving as well.

Tag

[Sabian]

Where do you live Sabian?, I want to move in
I love swimming and boating and snorkeling.
Would like to learn scuba diving as well.
I work for a hotel in the Keys. I live here. I am night maintance.
But on call 24 hours 24/7. I keep the Sabbath and Feast the best I can.
It's not easy. I do what I am asked to do though.
And reallyt I believe Thast is the best wat to look at the LAW.
I live on a nice peice of land because I am a good servent.
And that is exactly what I am. I own a $500.00 car
I don't pay rent I make about 8.00 an hour after taxes.
And I support Two kids and My wife. Plus I have saved 3,500 in a year.
That is about me.
You are welcome to visit Feast would me nice.
But any time my sofa is open.You can snorkel in my back yard.
1,000,000 acre's of water with a light house in the middle.
The deepest point is about 25 feet. untill you get about a mile past
the ligfht house.

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Sabian, it has been so long since I last swam I would probably drown ;) Just kidding. I was told when I was a kid that I swam like a fish. I have never been to Florida but just might have to come down that way someday to take you up on the offer to snorkel :) Sounds like it would be GREAT!!! I used to snorkel down rivers now and then and that was so fun. Of course take care or a current will take you if it is too strong.

Shalom,
Tag

[SonWorshipper]

Done! :)

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

Toda SonWorshipper ;)

Shalom,
Tag